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low as $25 at WeightWatchers.com. 1:01 [SPEAKER_06]: What you are about to hear is a live podcast that Jima and I created a couple of weeks ago. 1:06 [SPEAKER_06]: You'll hear questions submitted by listeners, and some are asked by listeners who were tuning in live. 1:13 [SPEAKER_06]: The audio is not perfect, recording a conversation live on the air was new to both of us. 1:18 [SPEAKER_06]: If you have questions you'd like Jim and I to discuss, feel free to email them to me at Shane at itfowlplay.com or go to our website bitfowlplay.com. 1:33 [SPEAKER_06]: For anyone who is joining us and you've never listened to Falkway with Gemini, I'm Shane Waters and this is Gemma Hoskins. 1:43 [SPEAKER_06]: I am one of the hosts for Falkway in the hometown history podcast and Gemma joins me in the podcast for season two of Falkway where we talk about Sister Kathy's murder and Gemma people will know you from Netflix as the keepers. 1:59 [SPEAKER_08]: Of course. 2:01 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling 2:29 [SPEAKER_08]: Can you hear us? 2:31 [SPEAKER_08]: Can you hear us? 2:32 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, she can. 2:33 [SPEAKER_08]: Hi, too. 2:34 [SPEAKER_08]: Hi, Lucy. 2:35 [SPEAKER_06]: Of course. 2:35 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to practice saying her last name, because I've read it many times. 2:39 [SPEAKER_08]: I wonder where she is. 2:41 [SPEAKER_06]: So these are all questions that people have just asked online. 2:45 [SPEAKER_06]: As you know, we often get asked similar questions multiple times. 2:50 [SPEAKER_06]: Some of them we've already discussed, but at least you're able to answer them and set the record straight. 2:56 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, someone has asked if we're aware of which states do not have a statute of limitations for child sex abuse. 3:05 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm assuming they mean no statute of limitations at all, you know what, I don't know, but we could try and ask Abby and then post it because Abby keeps track of all this legislation all over the country and she also keeps track of like the number of credible accused priests. 3:25 [SPEAKER_08]: She's very data driven and that would be an Abby question and right now I don't know. 3:31 [SPEAKER_08]: Do we know who asked that? 3:34 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't. 3:34 [SPEAKER_06]: I do know that last time, you know, last time we talked about this a little bit, but you have mentioned that Maryland is a, you know, if you're an adult in your aware of the abuse, you have to report it right mandatory reporting. 3:49 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but for Maryland isn't there an exception for priests. 4:01 [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, that's your limitations and reporting abuse. 4:06 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, the way I understand it right now is that a priest confides in another priest in a confessional and says, I sexually assaulted, you know, such and such a person, whether it was a child or not, it's wrong. 4:24 [SPEAKER_08]: Then I think that 4:30 [SPEAKER_08]: I think, but somebody can check on that because I'll be honest with the Shane, I do not keep up with, like, the nuts and bolts of legislation very well at all. 4:42 [SPEAKER_08]: Theresa knows if Theresa is on your tonight. 4:45 [SPEAKER_08]: Theresa, call in if you know because you could help us with that. 4:49 [SPEAKER_08]: the Lancaster is an attorney and she and Abby and Jane and Lil and Gloria, they have all gone like to anapolis to advocate for eliminating this downshare of limitations, which it's in the Senate right now and somebody who works for the local government told me they thought it might pass, so that would be awesome. 5:13 [SPEAKER_08]: But I don't be awesome. 5:15 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I don't know all the ins and outs of the law. 5:19 [SPEAKER_08]: So if and when that happens, let's get somebody one who is either a delegate or maybe CT Wilson would do an interview with us. 5:27 [SPEAKER_08]: And or you know, somebody who's been doing this down in an affless and tell us what it means in language that everybody can understand. 5:35 [SPEAKER_06]: Can you just give me a one lineer basically and walk the key process on Netflix? 5:41 [SPEAKER_08]: a one-liner, Gemma has never given a one-to-one anything. 5:45 [SPEAKER_06]: I knew you were going to say that. 5:48 [SPEAKER_08]: I haven't. 5:48 [SPEAKER_08]: All right. 5:49 [SPEAKER_08]: If you haven't seen the capers, trying to do this in one sentence. 5:53 [SPEAKER_08]: You haven't seen the capers. 5:55 [SPEAKER_08]: It is the story of the murder of my teacher, Sister Catherine Seznek, in 1969, after she left Archbishop Kio, 6:06 [SPEAKER_08]: And we believe that she was killed because she was aware that the chaplain Joseph Moscow, he was a priest, was sexually abusing girls in the school building and in other places around Baltimore. 6:23 [SPEAKER_08]: And the case has never been solved and she died because of it. 6:28 [SPEAKER_08]: Is that there? 6:30 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and that was a perfect summary. 6:32 [SPEAKER_08]: We have to keep that one so I can write it down 6:36 [SPEAKER_06]: Hopefully, I will remember another question that we get asked a lot. 6:41 [SPEAKER_06]: I know that I asked you this question, and we'll say we have a question in the answer. 6:45 [SPEAKER_06]: But this is specifically about the necklace they were wanted to know if it was definitely related to sister coffee. 6:54 [SPEAKER_08]: All right, as far as I know, it is not. 6:57 [SPEAKER_08]: It was a big deal in the movie, you know, we took it to a jewel or a gemologist because we thought perhaps that Edgar Davidson stole it from Kathy in November and gave it to his wife as a Christmas present that year. 7:13 [SPEAKER_08]: and she told us that it was not typical at all of what he would give her and that it wasn't the color burst down. 7:20 [SPEAKER_08]: So the necklace has been like sort of this sort of piece of evidence, you know, like in the game of Chloe, you're not sure what is or what isn't. 7:29 [SPEAKER_08]: And so Debbie Young, who was Edgar's niece, 7:33 [SPEAKER_08]: was so very kind enough to want to return it to Kathy's family and she did. 7:39 [SPEAKER_08]: And Maryland, Kathy's sister had it in her possession for a while, but at some point of Kathy's family and the police, the detectives that were handling the case came to an agreement that it was not 8:00 [SPEAKER_08]: And we started seeing the same necklace we kind of looked around on the internet and saw the same necklace is available very inexpensively still to this day in different stones so that like somebody sent a picture in and said my boyfriend gave me this for Valentine's day or somebody said, you know, my mom gave this to me when I graduated from. 8:23 [SPEAKER_08]: touch a place. 8:24 [SPEAKER_08]: So it was not meant as a wedding gift. 8:27 [SPEAKER_08]: We don't know what the little curls on it are, unless they're just like a bow above the bell. 8:32 [SPEAKER_08]: And so Marilyn, writer, cova, who's Kathy sister returned it to the police so that they could return it to Debbie's family. 8:43 [SPEAKER_08]: And right now, I really don't know where it is. 8:46 [SPEAKER_08]: but it's not to our knowledge, and from both the police and Kathy's family, I've been told that it is not connected to her disappearance or murder. 8:57 [SPEAKER_08]: The officer that was handling the cold case, Robin Thiel, who's retiring this year, by the way, she told me that they knew Edgar was a petty thief, and that he probably stole it, maybe from one of the girls he tried to pick up, or, you know, from somebody that he was 9:15 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know doing something bad too. 9:17 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know, but it seems like she was pretty sure that it was not meant to be for Maryland. 9:24 [SPEAKER_08]: We do also know, and this is not in the missing person report. 9:27 [SPEAKER_08]: There's some pages missing, but we do know that Kathy did visit the bridal registry in the 9:40 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, since her sister was going to get married. 9:42 [SPEAKER_08]: So we don't have the records of that, though, or the person she spoke to because that's one of the missing pages in the Maryland Public Information Act requests that we submitted in the next question, which I thought was a really good one, and they weren't to know if you could share some of your memories. 9:59 [SPEAKER_06]: It's like personal memories of Kathy or interaction. 10:02 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, absolutely. 10:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, one of the best memories I have of her was when I was in the drama club and you'd be in the club, but then you would have to have an audition for a show and she did a lot of musicals. 10:18 [SPEAKER_08]: So the first time I auditioned, I was given a piece to read from some 10:24 [SPEAKER_08]: Greek play, which meant nothing to me. 10:27 [SPEAKER_08]: And so, you know, we gave this little piece of paper. 10:30 [SPEAKER_08]: We were allowed to read it, but we were supposed to, you know, do it with expression and emphasis and all. 10:36 [SPEAKER_08]: So you have your little paper. 10:37 [SPEAKER_08]: It was like American Idol, but not with music. 10:40 [SPEAKER_08]: And she was sitting about maybe eight rose back in the auditorium with nobody else there and everybody was trying out was like sitting way in the back. 10:51 [SPEAKER_08]: And so I got up there and I read this piece of something about Helen of Troy and when I finished she said, 11:00 [SPEAKER_08]: do it again. 11:00 [SPEAKER_08]: But I want you to really mean it. 11:03 [SPEAKER_08]: And I was like shit, I do mean it. 11:05 [SPEAKER_08]: I want this heart, you know? 11:07 [SPEAKER_08]: So I got up and did it again and then told me to do something that I always had my students do in the classroom. 11:16 [SPEAKER_08]: She said, I want you to pretend I'm holding a trashcan and I want you to throw your voice into the trashcan. 11:23 [SPEAKER_08]: And so I just picture their sit in there with like a big old school trash can and like aimed my voice and it works. 11:32 [SPEAKER_08]: So a lot of times kids do not speak loud enough when they're in front of the class. 11:38 [SPEAKER_08]: So I always like took the trash can and I moved it like halfway back in the room. 11:43 [SPEAKER_08]: And I said, now I want you to throw your voice in the trash can. 11:46 [SPEAKER_08]: And they thought it was fine and it worked. 11:49 [SPEAKER_08]: It made them speak louder so that I got to be in the musical. 11:53 [SPEAKER_08]: Another memory I have, and I've told this one in my book, is I remembered that in Kathy's classroom, we were in rows. 12:02 [SPEAKER_08]: I think there were probably six rows, maybe six chairs in each row, and like going back from the front of the room. 12:11 [SPEAKER_08]: And she was handing out test papers that we had taken on the Friday before and they were all in her arm all staple together and she put mine on my desk face down. 12:21 [SPEAKER_08]: I was like, oh, this isn't good. 12:23 [SPEAKER_08]: I was smart. 12:25 [SPEAKER_08]: My parents expected me to bring home good work. 12:27 [SPEAKER_08]: They didn't punish me, but I had high expectations of myself. 12:31 [SPEAKER_08]: So I looked at me like, like kind of raised an eyebrow, which I never have been able to do. 12:36 [SPEAKER_08]: I was like, oh my god, my dad's not going to like this. 12:39 [SPEAKER_08]: So I like peaked the corner. 12:41 [SPEAKER_08]: I like picked the corner of it up and sort of peaked. 12:43 [SPEAKER_08]: Like that was going to make it an easier right. 12:46 [SPEAKER_08]: And it was an A. 12:47 [SPEAKER_08]: She just like started laughing and went kept going, you know? 12:51 [SPEAKER_08]: She was like funny and fun and beautiful. 12:55 [SPEAKER_02]: This is the new weight watchers. 12:58 [SPEAKER_02]: It works. 12:59 [SPEAKER_02]: For members like JoJo, who's learning simple, healthy habits, Sharia, who's making progress with meds, and Kim, who still gets to eat what she loves. 13:08 [SPEAKER_02]: For over 60 years, we've helped millions of members find what works for them. 13:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, it's your turn. 13:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Watch your life open up, watch your story shift, watch what you're capable of, watch it work. 13:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Get started today at weightwatchers.com. 13:25 [SPEAKER_06]: 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your mental health is a sign of strength. 14:28 [SPEAKER_06]: Start your journey today. 14:30 [SPEAKER_08]: Another thing she always did, which as a teacher, I tried to remember to do, she were writing comments on our paper, she would use our name in the comment, not like Gemma good job, but it would be like, I'm really impressed, comma, Gemma, comma with your interpretation of the rest in Huckleberry Finn. 14:54 [SPEAKER_08]: It made me think about another book I think you'd like, blah, blah, blah. 14:58 [SPEAKER_08]: So for a student to get back a comment like that, what would it tell you, would tell you she read what you wrote, she wants you to read something else and she appreciates what you did and putting your name in the middle of the sentence chain always makes the other person feel important. 15:17 [SPEAKER_08]: Did I just make you feel important because I used your name in their 15:25 [SPEAKER_08]: It's, yeah, it's a nice and personal, yes. 15:29 [SPEAKER_08]: So that's two things that I remember. 15:31 [SPEAKER_08]: I have all good memories of her until she was no longer there and then everything was sad. 15:38 [SPEAKER_06]: What part of her teaching a child did you pick up? 15:43 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh my goodness, I watched everything she did because I remember thinking, why do I love the in here and not like in science when it like science at much, but why don't I like being in other classes way I like being in here? 15:57 [SPEAKER_08]: The trick or the secret is that she facilitated learning. 16:03 [SPEAKER_08]: She didn't get up and tell us things. 16:05 [SPEAKER_08]: She encouraged us to find the answers. 16:08 [SPEAKER_08]: So for example, if she said, what is the raft symbolized in Huckleberry Finn? 16:15 [SPEAKER_08]: And then you would say, well, I think it symbolizes independent, running away, escaping from something. 16:22 [SPEAKER_08]: And she would say, well, tell me why you're saying that. 16:26 [SPEAKER_08]: Why do you believe that? 16:28 [SPEAKER_08]: Or find something in the book that 16:31 [SPEAKER_08]: made you feel that way. 16:33 [SPEAKER_08]: So she's bringing the learning out. 16:36 [SPEAKER_08]: It's actually has a name. 16:37 [SPEAKER_08]: It's called Constructivism, where she helps the learner construct their meaning from what they're reading or doing or math or whatever. 16:49 [SPEAKER_08]: And then encourages you to build one that. 16:53 [SPEAKER_08]: It's also a part of what's called the secratic method because Socrates used to sit in the middle of his students 17:00 [SPEAKER_08]: and ask them questions and the discussion would actually be turned over to the students and the teacher becomes a student learning with the others. 17:12 [SPEAKER_08]: So, you know, she often encouraged us to agree and disagree with each other and to talk back and forth about it and she would just kind of ease her way out. 17:23 [SPEAKER_08]: But those are things that teachers learn how to do now and 17:27 [SPEAKER_08]: when they're learning to be a good teacher, she just did it naturally. 17:31 [SPEAKER_08]: Always something that was hard, challenging, but that we wanted to do because of the way she presented it. 17:39 [SPEAKER_06]: to your relationship with Sister Kathy, evolve from student to friend? 17:44 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I do remember when after she left at the end of my junior year and I was not in her class that year. 17:52 [SPEAKER_08]: I had her for drama club for two years and I had her as my English teacher for two years. 17:59 [SPEAKER_08]: At that time, you know, being quote friends with teachers, it wasn't unusual, but it wasn't always typical. 18:09 [SPEAKER_08]: So for me, I do remember going to visit Kathy and Sister Russell at their apartment in the summer after our junior year before school started and we took a pizza over. 18:26 [SPEAKER_08]: I've told 18:28 [SPEAKER_08]: and we put it on the table and we realized it was upside down so when we opened it all the pizza was on the lid and Kathy just said, it was just good for her to meet it off the lid. 18:39 [SPEAKER_08]: So if you will call that friendship, yes, but I was not as close to her as many of the girls, you know, who may have been in drama clubs for four years or I know some friends went on a 18:54 [SPEAKER_08]: to New York and one of the girl's moms let healthy bar the car to take everybody to the retreat. 19:01 [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't do those kinds of things with her, but the weekends that we had practices for our shows, you know, we weren't in our uniforms, we were there in jeans and sweatshirts. 19:13 [SPEAKER_08]: So that was a much more comfortable casual kind of relationship, but it was always appropriate, but it was always she made every one of us feel like we were special. 19:25 [SPEAKER_08]: And now because we are, we each are special in our own way, and I always felt like I wanted to make my students feel that way. 19:31 [SPEAKER_08]: So yeah, I guess I'd answer your question. 19:37 [SPEAKER_06]: with you feeling so close to Sister Kathy in terms of having that relationship with her during the investigation for the keepers and since then even to the podcast and talking to people when you learn details of her murder, how do you take that? 19:53 [SPEAKER_06]: is a hard one. 19:54 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it was something I had to learn how to do. 19:56 [SPEAKER_08]: And Kathy's family, her brother-in-law, Marilyn's husband, gave me a copy of Kathy's autopsy. 20:05 [SPEAKER_08]: And I didn't read it for a long time because I wasn't sure I wanted to read it because in my mind, she was like this kind of special mentor person that 20:20 [SPEAKER_08]: just shared herself with all of us. 20:23 [SPEAKER_08]: And then to think that somebody killed her and the state of her body was not that beautiful Kathy that we all knew I had to work my way up to it. 20:36 [SPEAKER_08]: So I did look at it. 20:38 [SPEAKER_08]: The first time I read it, I cried. 20:40 [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't understand a lot of the science words, but the part I did understand was really hard for me to read and I just kind of let my emotions out and then I waited and then I went back. 20:55 [SPEAKER_08]: this time with a dictionary. 20:57 [SPEAKER_08]: And I looked up every word. 20:59 [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't understand. 21:01 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, there were a lot of technical medical words and saying, I don't know if everybody listening knows that you're now cornering or it would be like clear as a battle to you because you're used to reading and writing this stuff now, right? 21:12 [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I also wanted to mention that when we're doing podcasts and we're talking about details like that, like for example, when we talk to the 21:20 [SPEAKER_06]: He's telling us, you know, just his memories. 21:22 [SPEAKER_06]: He didn't know Kathy personally. 21:24 [SPEAKER_06]: I know. 21:25 [SPEAKER_06]: We're hearing those details often times, especially after the interview. 21:29 [SPEAKER_06]: I know that we have to walk away from this situation to try to regroup. 21:33 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. 21:35 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we also do that when we're speaking with survivors. 21:39 [SPEAKER_08]: And I guess it's the living people. 21:42 [SPEAKER_08]: That made me the saddest. 21:43 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't want them to feel bad for doing that because they're still carrying this burden and they're gonna have it all their lives. 21:50 [SPEAKER_08]: Now, if I answer questions about the autopsy and I've been doing that, I met with a group of 10 forensic science students by Zoom in another state and they go to a virtual school and all of their questions were based on forensics. 22:07 [SPEAKER_08]: And I told their teacher, I was not going to give her a copy of the autopsy. 22:12 [SPEAKER_08]: There's something in me I will never do that because it was not given to me with the thought of copying it and giving it to people. 22:21 [SPEAKER_08]: Now somehow Alan Horn also got a copy of it and made many copies. 22:27 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know how he got it because he didn't get it from me, but he gave them to many people, 22:35 [SPEAKER_08]: Bingo cards. 22:37 [SPEAKER_08]: And I won't do that. 22:39 [SPEAKER_08]: I will answer questions or I'll look something up for somebody, but I'm not going to give them, because I know what happens. 22:46 [SPEAKER_08]: It finds itself all over the internet, people misunderstand, 22:56 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not going to give people that ammunition anymore, you know. 23:00 [SPEAKER_08]: Also, the same thing happened when we talked to Dr. Werner Spitz, because he went into a lot of detail about her injuries and I was excited and happy to talk to him because I'm like such a so star-stroke, I mean, Shane, I'm your groupie. 23:15 [SPEAKER_08]: But anyway, I was just so odd, even though he mixed it up with a different case, I just was hanging 23:24 [SPEAKER_08]: But then afterwards I thought this was my teacher and her body had been out in the elements for two months and it also makes me think I need to like suck it up because poor Jean was taken to seek out the few weeks after she was killed and she carries that vision around with her. 23:44 [SPEAKER_08]: the electives. 23:45 [SPEAKER_08]: They had to identify Joyce the day she was murdered and they have that inside. 23:50 [SPEAKER_08]: So, you know, it's not so bad for me, but it is very sad when you think about this person that you loved and respected and who helped you develop into who you are was treated that way. 24:05 [SPEAKER_06]: Another really good question. 24:06 [SPEAKER_06]: I thought was someone wanted to know what recording podcasts together is like. 24:12 [SPEAKER_08]: You can answer that. 24:13 [SPEAKER_08]: What is it like? 24:15 [SPEAKER_06]: It's, well, I mean, as whenever we're talking someone for some reason normally people get a little nervous to hear the word recording. 24:23 [SPEAKER_06]: But I think that one really good thing is we're both pretty good friends too. 24:28 [SPEAKER_06]: So we do a really good job. 24:29 [SPEAKER_06]: I think that making people feel comfortable. 24:31 [SPEAKER_06]: And just having a discussion, like just friends chatting. 24:36 [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm. 24:37 [SPEAKER_08]: The other thing I think that is really effective, Shane, is that you always tell them, and I usually remind you if it's getting to explain to them how this is going to work, and then we tell them that when we're finished, you're going to take out teddy-barking or jealous, sneezing or, you know, you sniffing or whatever, and you're going to have the person that we interviewed, listen to the whole thing, and then it's up to them. 25:06 [SPEAKER_08]: theirs, then they can take out or add something, and then I think with Gene, she wanted to listen to it several times, and I was really glad. 25:16 [SPEAKER_08]: And then you take what changes they want to make, or if none, and then, you know, you put the music in all to it, I will say, I'm probably a little bit more worried about 25:29 [SPEAKER_08]: having like a roadmap before we start. 25:31 [SPEAKER_08]: So if I write the questions and send them to you, I'm usually the one that says, okay, do you want to start a do I? 25:38 [SPEAKER_08]: Who's going to go first? 25:40 [SPEAKER_08]: And you're a little bit more because you do it all the time. 25:43 [SPEAKER_08]: You do this like many times a week, I think, and I don't. 25:47 [SPEAKER_08]: And so I'm like being the teacher and you are more not unorganized, 25:58 [SPEAKER_08]: to like wait and have the other like let the other person's like kind of alternate questions the other thing I've had to learn to do is not to say oh yeah or because listeners have given me feedback about that. 26:13 [SPEAKER_08]: I've never done radio before and that's what a podcast is, like an old time radio show. 26:18 [SPEAKER_08]: It's exactly what it is before people had TVs. 26:22 [SPEAKER_08]: So I'm better when I'll write the questions and get the, you know, I'll find the person and then you're the one that says, okay, let's put it together like this and then when we're actually talking to them, I 26:36 [SPEAKER_08]: I think we do a good job alternating and I'm going to tell everybody we text back and forth in the middle of some interviews like when we're on cane and I'll be texting you saying like asking this asking that so it's been more of a learning experience for me that has for you I think because you've been doing it longer. 26:56 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think that our team, the teamwork that we have, we definitely play all each other's strengths. 27:02 [SPEAKER_06]: It's nice that I'm a little bit more tech-solving when it comes to recording podcasts. 27:06 [SPEAKER_08]: I think you think? 27:08 [SPEAKER_08]: That's how I mean, yeah, just push that arrow, and I'm like, what arrow? 27:12 [SPEAKER_08]: What's he talking about? 27:15 [SPEAKER_06]: Hey, we always get there, though, don't we? 27:17 [SPEAKER_08]: I know, we do. 27:17 [SPEAKER_08]: And I think when you came to visit and we did a couple here, I think physically being around you and Alicia and going to see where things happened with you and a lot of people that were involved, that was a fascinating day, has made the podcast we did after that better, because we have a better feel for each other's demeanor and I don't know, yeah, personality. 27:45 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I've been told then it was all for a month, but we spent a week. 27:51 [SPEAKER_08]: You came or visited me for a week, yeah, yeah, it was fun. 27:55 [SPEAKER_08]: I know. 27:56 [SPEAKER_06]: It was a lot of fun. 27:57 [SPEAKER_06]: You had mentioned how we let people who we interview pre-less into episodes and we'll remove things. 28:04 [SPEAKER_06]: But I think the reason we started doing that was especially for more talking to survivors. 28:09 [SPEAKER_06]: It's their story. 28:10 [SPEAKER_06]: And sometimes when you're talking to us, like when it is just us too in them, they might be a little bit more open to share things. 28:18 [SPEAKER_06]: But I want to make sure that before we share publicly, that they're okay with it. 28:23 [SPEAKER_06]: I think that the people in the community 28:26 [SPEAKER_08]: And I think a few of them, we actually just had a three-way conversation on the phone before we'd recorded anything, you know, because they need to vet us. 28:35 [SPEAKER_08]: They need to, does this feel right, you know, I think the listener that was the expert in social work that shared with us how to talk to your children about abuse, you know, she was not part of the capers, but she had experience and wisdom to share. 28:56 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, you're right. 28:58 [SPEAKER_06]: Another question was, is the Memorial Park for Sister Kathy that people saw in the end of Episode 7, still on the tree? 29:06 [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, it is, and it's private property. 29:09 [SPEAKER_08]: I just posted a picture of it, actually, because people want to know where it is. 29:13 [SPEAKER_08]: You can see it. 29:15 [SPEAKER_08]: Anybody that's listening, if they want to send me a message, asking me how they can see it without going on private property. 29:23 [SPEAKER_08]: I can explain that as it wouldn't be helpful for me to explain it now, but it is private property. 29:28 [SPEAKER_08]: And there is a house adjacent to that wooded area 29:34 [SPEAKER_08]: And the first time we went there, those people came out. 29:38 [SPEAKER_08]: And so I went over and talked to them. 29:41 [SPEAKER_08]: And I don't think they were very happy about us being there. 29:44 [SPEAKER_08]: Because they knew nothing about the story. 29:46 [SPEAKER_08]: They were way younger. 29:47 [SPEAKER_08]: And Jessica, the producer, was with me and John Benham. 29:51 [SPEAKER_08]: And they were like, you go talk to him, Jama. 29:55 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't go talk to him. 29:56 [SPEAKER_08]: So I went up and talked to him, Jack. 29:58 [SPEAKER_08]: I knew Jess and Jama were like, come on, Jama. 30:00 [SPEAKER_08]: That's enough talking to those people. 30:02 [SPEAKER_08]: Let's go. 30:03 [SPEAKER_08]: So they did let us walk on their property and take pictures and film, but I know that as soon as the keepers came out, that road, which is not a through road, it stops in a big parking lot of a distillery and railroad tracks. 30:20 [SPEAKER_08]: became like a lucky blue kind of place, you know, like the torque of the movie stars homes or something. 30:27 [SPEAKER_08]: And it's a very narrow road. 30:29 [SPEAKER_08]: You were there and people would cruise down real slow, like a parade for days. 30:35 [SPEAKER_08]: And then they'd have to turn around and love. 30:37 [SPEAKER_08]: Distillery parking lot and drive back up again, they all wanted to stop and take pictures and say, yeah, that's happened a lot, but now there is a no trust passing sign close to the road and up by the city me saying, right, like such a Baltimore accent close to the road and up by the tree itself, but you can see it from the street, you don't have to get out and walk anywhere, if you know where you're looking, you can see it. 31:04 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we saw we were there just from the room. 31:07 [SPEAKER_06]: Someone else wanted to know if anyone has ever figured out what Kathy's letter to her sister said. 31:13 [SPEAKER_08]: Not a word, nothing. 31:17 [SPEAKER_08]: So many theories. 31:18 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, we don't even know where the letter is. 31:20 [SPEAKER_08]: We have no idea what it said. 31:22 [SPEAKER_08]: Now, and people get confused with that letter and the one that she supposedly wrote to Jerry Coo. 31:29 [SPEAKER_08]: It's two different letters, right? 31:31 [SPEAKER_08]: The one that you're talking about is the one that versus your Maryland received, like, I don't know, five or six days after Kathy disappeared. 31:40 [SPEAKER_08]: And Maryland picks herself. 31:42 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure every day, why didn't she open it? 31:45 [SPEAKER_08]: But she was so excited that she thought Kathy was alive. 31:49 [SPEAKER_08]: She called her dad, and he worked for the post office. 31:52 [SPEAKER_08]: And he said, do not open it and send in somebody to get it. 31:55 [SPEAKER_08]: to somebody picked it up, and in the back of my book, here I'll plug it, keeping on is the missing person report. 32:04 [SPEAKER_08]: And in that report, it's a little confusing because there's one report that talks about Mr. Saysnet coming and bringing an envelope and turning it over to the police. 32:18 [SPEAKER_08]: And it doesn't say anything about the contents, 32:24 [SPEAKER_08]: it talks about the letter being turned over to the cops. 32:29 [SPEAKER_08]: So I don't know. 32:31 [SPEAKER_08]: Now we know that it was entered as evidence, but I don't know if the envelope was entered if the letter was entered. 32:40 [SPEAKER_08]: But it's not there anymore. 32:42 [SPEAKER_08]: And the police have a system. 32:44 [SPEAKER_08]: People saw this in the capers and might have been confused when Gary Childs, the detective, was interviewed by our film makers. 32:53 [SPEAKER_08]: They asked about the letter. 32:54 [SPEAKER_08]: And you could hear a voice off screen. 32:58 [SPEAKER_08]: That was Robin. 32:59 [SPEAKER_08]: Who didn't want to be in the interview. 33:00 [SPEAKER_08]: He said, or didn't want to be filmed. 33:02 [SPEAKER_08]: Said, it's been entered into beast. 33:10 [SPEAKER_08]: tracking system. 33:12 [SPEAKER_08]: So it had a number, it was entered in and it's not there anymore. 33:17 [SPEAKER_08]: So I think it would be interesting to hear what people think the letter was about. 33:21 [SPEAKER_08]: Do you have an opinion about that train? 33:24 [SPEAKER_08]: What do you think it was in it? 33:27 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not really sure. 33:27 [SPEAKER_06]: You have to have to refresh my memory on this, but has did she share with her sister at that point as she was leaving the combat? 33:35 [SPEAKER_08]: she had done that already because she let people know that at the end of the spring term at K.O. 33:42 [SPEAKER_08]: and she did a letter that she made copies of. 33:46 [SPEAKER_08]: Shane, do you even know what a memo your graph machine is? 33:49 [SPEAKER_08]: No, it's an old time copy machine and you have to like turn a big handle. 33:57 [SPEAKER_08]: I'll have to find a picture of it for you and send it to you and so she made copies of that and she sent them to a lot of people one of our friends Bruce probably who's listening tonight he was sent to copy because she was friends with him and I have a copy of it 34:14 [SPEAKER_08]: and it explains what they're doing and why they're doing it and that they felt like they could make more of an impact on young people and their education by teaching outside of like the protection of, listen to that word, protection, right, outside of Catholic school. 34:32 [SPEAKER_08]: So, you know, she sent that letter in the spring of 69. 34:43 [SPEAKER_08]: but we don't know when it was mailed. 34:46 [SPEAKER_08]: Do you have an opinion about it? 34:47 [SPEAKER_08]: And Marilyn told me it was thick. 34:49 [SPEAKER_08]: It wasn't like a greeting card, not a colored envelope or something. 34:53 [SPEAKER_08]: She said it was definitely a letter. 34:54 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm also curious how often she wrote her. 34:58 [SPEAKER_06]: Like was that a thing? 35:01 [SPEAKER_06]: Like did she just write her letters random with? 35:04 [SPEAKER_08]: I have no idea. 35:04 [SPEAKER_08]: I never thought to ask. 35:06 [SPEAKER_06]: And then one reason I asked was because if she did, then that might give us an idea of what type of situations she could write letters to, but if she doesn't normally write letters, then that mean to me that it's something significant. 35:19 [SPEAKER_06]: Me tell. 35:21 [SPEAKER_08]: I agree, you know, I'm not that's interesting. 35:23 [SPEAKER_08]: I never thought about to ask how often Kathy wrote to or I mean, I'm assuming she did because Marilyn was in nursing school and Kathy was in Baltimore. 35:34 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know, I mean, I think the most logical conclusion if she didn't normally write to or might be that. 35:40 [SPEAKER_08]: She may have said to Russell, could you mail this if something happens to me, especially after the two men, the two priests came into the apartment the night before. 35:54 [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that is significant about what happened the next day. 35:59 [SPEAKER_08]: Now, when they left, apparently neither Kathy or Ross was upset enough to not go to school the next day. 36:08 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, somebody came burst in in here and threatened me to, you know, 36:13 [SPEAKER_08]: keep my mouth shut, they're going to kill me. 36:15 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know. 36:17 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know what I would do the next day. 36:18 [SPEAKER_08]: But our friend from Western High School, Juliana, her toldy who had Kathy that year spoke to her that day. 36:27 [SPEAKER_08]: She said Kathy seemed fine. 36:29 [SPEAKER_08]: And 36:31 [SPEAKER_08]: But again, Kathy was into drama. 36:33 [SPEAKER_08]: So she would be a good actress trying to look fine for her student, you know? 36:37 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not saying she was a drama queen. 36:39 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm saying if she had to pretend she was okay, she knew how to do it. 36:44 [SPEAKER_08]: But I kind of, and I then I thought, well, I wonder if Russell wrote one too. 36:48 [SPEAKER_08]: If after there's pre-sluft, 36:51 [SPEAKER_08]: They both said, let's write letters to somebody in our family. 36:55 [SPEAKER_08]: And if something happens to either one of us, the other one will mail it. 37:00 [SPEAKER_08]: Like that would kind of make sense to me if they were afraid. 37:04 [SPEAKER_08]: And maybe they wrote down everything that happened. 37:07 [SPEAKER_08]: And then, you know, sealed it and stamped it and said, if something happens to me, send this to my sister. 37:14 [SPEAKER_08]: Something happens may send this to my uncle. 37:18 [SPEAKER_08]: but we will never know, we will never know. 37:22 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I asked this question, but I did to be the last one of them more in mess, but do you think that Russell was really scared? 37:30 [SPEAKER_06]: Do you think that's why she kind of kept quiet? 37:33 [SPEAKER_08]: I think she was terrified, terrified. 37:36 [SPEAKER_08]: But she also was very quiet. 37:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Kathy was more outgoing, more gregarious, more talkative, rust was of my God. 37:47 [SPEAKER_08]: She was such a sweetie. 37:48 [SPEAKER_08]: She made me understand algebra with malt, making me feel like an idiot. 37:52 [SPEAKER_08]: And she was very pretty sweet. 37:55 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't believe she did anything wrong. 37:57 [SPEAKER_08]: I really don't. 37:58 [SPEAKER_08]: People like to talk about her. 37:59 [SPEAKER_08]: She did. 38:00 [SPEAKER_08]: It's easy to talk about people that are dead. 38:02 [SPEAKER_08]: People that like me now are going to be really mean about me when I die. 38:05 [SPEAKER_08]: So Shane, you better not let that happen. 38:07 [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, so I'm not dying everybody. 38:10 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm just saying, you know, I've thought about it. 38:12 [SPEAKER_08]: But I think she was threatened all her life. 38:15 [SPEAKER_08]: I think whoever it was that her Kathy kept reminding her that they could hurt her, too. 38:21 [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that's what happened. 38:23 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm surprised she didn't move to another state and change her name, but maybe that would be more obvious than, you know, staying around and keeping her name. 38:33 [SPEAKER_08]: When the keepers was being made, the filmmakers wanted to interview her husband and he specifically asked for everybody to please leave him alone and his kids, she has two sons grown and everybody respected that. 38:49 [SPEAKER_08]: So, I don't know what he knows. 38:52 [SPEAKER_08]: He claimed at the beginning. 38:54 [SPEAKER_08]: He didn't know anything. 38:55 [SPEAKER_08]: And Russell was good friends with our buddy Chris sent a faulty and said, you know, Chris tried to get her to talk about it many times. 39:04 [SPEAKER_08]: Because they knew each other when they live in Carole County. 39:06 [SPEAKER_08]: Chris was a real estate agent. 39:08 [SPEAKER_08]: And Russell said to her, I have a different life now. 39:12 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not going back there. 39:14 [SPEAKER_08]: But Russell definitely, like if there are some people who can wrap something up, 39:18 [SPEAKER_08]: inside them so that they are not thinking about it and they are turning a corner. 39:24 [SPEAKER_08]: But that doesn't mean it's not like festering in there somewhere. 39:28 [SPEAKER_08]: And I really believe in holistic health, not that we're into like, what do we believe spiritually? 39:35 [SPEAKER_08]: But I think that she died of melanoma at a young age, like dinner fifties, and like teen husband died of a soft 39:45 [SPEAKER_08]: you know, when he was young, and it often has to do with what's going on in your life, like when Jean talks about everything he had to swallow. 39:54 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it was a lot of hard stuff, and your body turns on itself. 39:58 [SPEAKER_08]: For Russ, it could be that she just couldn't hold it in anymore, and she developed melanoma, which sounds almost right, but it does happen. 40:07 [SPEAKER_08]: It happens that way. 40:09 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm looking at how many people that have high stress jobs that die of heart attack in our bodies and our minds are all connected. 40:17 [SPEAKER_08]: So I think that she was threatened all our life. 40:20 [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that she had to make a decision. 40:23 [SPEAKER_08]: People criticize her, but Shane, if you had to make a decision between saving yourself in your family or telling the truth, what would you pick? 40:34 [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I think that the question would have to go a little bit more beyond that because at the time Russell was a woman in a man's world, you know, and she was up against Catholic priests. 40:46 [SPEAKER_06]: So I mean, if I put myself in that situation, there's no way that I would feel comfortable. 40:50 [SPEAKER_06]: they just killed my best friend. 40:52 [SPEAKER_08]: Right. 40:53 [SPEAKER_06]: Like what would stop them from killing me? 40:55 [SPEAKER_06]: Or exactly. 40:56 [SPEAKER_08]: But I think even as she got older, I think she had to make the decision. 41:02 [SPEAKER_08]: Do I protect my husband and my sons and myself? 41:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Do I tell the truth? 41:08 [SPEAKER_08]: I would protect my family because, you know, yeah, at something you just said made me think of being a woman in a man's world, people criticized her for calling Jerry Coobe, but we know the cops were involved in the abuse and we know that Kathy and Russ knew about the abuse and so what is she going to do? 41:29 [SPEAKER_08]: Call the people that are hurting the probably just killed her, you know, her best friend. 41:35 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think so. 41:36 [SPEAKER_08]: I think it made sense to me. 41:37 [SPEAKER_08]: She called Sharon and then she calls Jerry because who else is going to help them. 41:43 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's the thing that is very hard to understand, but anyway. 41:48 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. 41:49 [SPEAKER_08]: Any other questions? 41:51 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but it looks like it's it. 41:56 [SPEAKER_08]: I think you can go enjoy your 42:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Wheat Watchers now offers access to affordable GLP once. 42:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It works for members like I'm Haley and I've lost a hundred pounds. 42:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Wheat Watchers has everything I need from weight loss medications to nutrition support and help with my side effects. 42:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all in one place. 42:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Wheat Watchers handles the insurance for you and offers affordable cash pay options. 42:47 [SPEAKER_02]: With our program, our members are losing more weight with expert nutrition and side effects support. 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