0:01 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching. 0:30 [SPEAKER_00]: a couple months ago I traveled to Baltimore and visited the locations that are of importance in Sister Kathy and Joyce's case. 0:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Gemma and I met up with many people you have heard from already and a few you will hear on a future podcast. 0:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Be aware that this audio was recorded while we were walking and talking along the streets. 0:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It was pretty windy so I apologize ahead of time for the noise from wind 0:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Jim and I met up with her on monumental avenue where she showed us the home where her grandmother raised her father and his brothers, including Billy. 1:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Next to the home is the very woods. 1:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Sister Kathy's body was discovered in. 1:13 [SPEAKER_12]: Very different. 1:14 [SPEAKER_12]: It was first team white. 1:16 [SPEAKER_12]: That porch was a beautiful gray. 1:18 [SPEAKER_12]: It was clean. 1:18 [SPEAKER_12]: It was just very different than what it is now. 1:21 [SPEAKER_12]: And it seemed to me because I was a little goose huge like a castle. 1:25 [SPEAKER_12]: But when I look at it now, 1:29 [SPEAKER_12]: There was a garage, I don't know if it's still there. 1:32 [SPEAKER_12]: On the other side of the driveway, it was a free standing garage that my grandfather used as a shop mechanic shop. 1:39 [SPEAKER_13]: I father used to have show cars and things like that. 1:42 [SPEAKER_13]: I guess that's what they did in there. 1:43 [SPEAKER_12]: But all this stuff was not under the back. 1:46 [SPEAKER_12]: Seems to me the woods were a lot thicker than they are now. 1:50 [SPEAKER_12]: This could have been logging could have gone on in there, whatever, maybe it's just thinned out. 1:53 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know, but we're maybe it's just my memory, but it seemed to be a lot thicker. 1:58 [SPEAKER_12]: The only thing here was this house. 2:00 [SPEAKER_12]: All of that going that way is since we lived here. 2:04 [SPEAKER_12]: There were two little boys who lived in this house that we used to play with, and that was about it, and some kids up the street that were our age. 2:11 [SPEAKER_13]: That's basically it. 2:12 [SPEAKER_13]: So it's my family home. 2:15 [SPEAKER_00]: How far away from here was Kathy? 2:16 [SPEAKER_12]: What would you say it is a half a mile, a quarter mile, quarter mile, it's up the street and around. 2:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I measured the distance from the home Billy grew up in to the location Kathy was left. 2:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost 1,000 feet, or 0.18 of a mile. 2:34 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, if you were to walk from this house, through the woods in a straight line to the back of the Smith shop, Kathy was found almost exactly on the halfway point in the woods. 2:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember Sharon's dad saying, we killed a woman and put her behind the shop. 2:51 [SPEAKER_12]: This is what I was talking about when we were doing the podcast. 2:55 [SPEAKER_12]: I'd never met Gemma and I'd never knew where she was found. 2:58 [SPEAKER_12]: Last Gemma showed me exactly where she was found that she pointed to that tree and I literally walked up to that tree and I go. 3:04 [SPEAKER_12]: that way and I don't know why I said it. 3:06 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know why I said it. 3:09 [SPEAKER_12]: So then we got in the car and we drove here and got out and we talked to the man here. 3:13 [SPEAKER_12]: He was like, Oh, yeah, when I bought this place in the 80s, I was told she was found right there and he pointed the like we're all that big equipment is right now. 3:20 [SPEAKER_12]: So I went and I stood on a rock there and I just like, Oh, my God, are there real retracts? 3:25 [SPEAKER_12]: And I realized I was looking at the back of my grandfather's shop. 3:28 [SPEAKER_12]: You literally can see it from where those tractors were sitting. 3:33 [SPEAKER_12]: But that is not where she was found. 3:34 [SPEAKER_12]: He was found here. 3:35 [SPEAKER_12]: And that's why I asked. 3:37 [SPEAKER_12]: Yes. 3:38 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it is. 3:39 [SPEAKER_05]: OK. Yep. 3:45 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, not this was the new and since a year, the Gary and I were here. 3:50 [SPEAKER_12]: Look at that. 3:50 [SPEAKER_12]: That's awesome. 3:50 [SPEAKER_12]: Yep. 3:52 [SPEAKER_12]: No, none of this care. 3:53 [SPEAKER_12]: This was all wood. 3:54 [SPEAKER_12]: And you told me it was just right here. 3:57 [SPEAKER_08]: This is just a little clear. 3:59 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah. 3:59 [SPEAKER_10]: A lot. 4:03 [SPEAKER_12]: So if you could just imagine, look at the other side of the hill now of where we just were. 4:16 [SPEAKER_09]: That house was right there and have on you. 4:19 [SPEAKER_09]: The village. 4:21 [SPEAKER_02]: The guy that owned this property, like a million years ago, claimed a smock smuck done, and they were weak. 4:30 [SPEAKER_02]: He was containers of something under the ground that nobody knew about until all this was turned over. 4:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And so there were all these like violations and learn those. 4:42 [SPEAKER_02]: He, well, there's a dog cattle here. 4:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I bet there's dogs have two heads. 4:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Your stuff, I would not live here. 4:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but when we actually walked in, it was past the last house. 4:56 [SPEAKER_02]: That was when the left and then they, then the wood starts and then across from the sand and gravel, there's a dried way, that would make a hundred yard theory. 5:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Make a person and then in the woods, so the product that jeans family, but they says the road and you can actually see it in the road. 5:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was very busy down here. 5:17 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm sure that we can't see if they walked in that sideways and they would be getting them that rested at hill, right, or you think there was another hill. 5:26 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm just so confused by that. 5:27 [SPEAKER_12]: It would all look different, right? 5:28 [SPEAKER_02]: This is all grown there. 5:30 [SPEAKER_12]: Does it look like nothing? 5:32 [SPEAKER_00]: We moved from the woods to in front of the Schmitt's families or shop. 5:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So I remember talking to a guy that has a shop down there and he didn't remember it, but you wouldn't have come at it from this side, right? 5:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Because of the railroad, right? 5:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And now 95, also, right? 5:50 [SPEAKER_02]: That's true. 5:51 [SPEAKER_12]: Two sections, right? 5:54 [SPEAKER_12]: But back in the day, my mom says, when always meaning my father and his brothers, when they were teenagers and young men, my mother said, they need to drag race back here along the railroad tracks. 6:06 [SPEAKER_12]: So I guess there's always been like a dirt road. 6:09 [SPEAKER_12]: This was I activity with my family. 6:13 [SPEAKER_12]: It's an area they are very familiar with. 6:15 [SPEAKER_12]: And you'll walk. 6:16 [SPEAKER_08]: Why do you? 6:17 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, that was my grandfather's shot. 6:19 [SPEAKER_12]: And literally out the back door of the shop, you look straight up the hill. 6:23 [SPEAKER_12]: It's where I was standing when you all came down and worked. 6:27 [SPEAKER_12]: That's where I thought she was saying. 6:28 [SPEAKER_12]: I thought I'm going to keep going down the bottom. 6:32 [SPEAKER_02]: It's still a read that. 6:34 [SPEAKER_12]: Yep. 6:36 [SPEAKER_12]: So it is close and let you see the apartment what you have to do from here to get to the apartment you're going to be like 6:45 [SPEAKER_12]: and where Billy's apartment was right here to where the car was. 6:48 [SPEAKER_00]: This conversation happened in the car on the way to Kathy's carriage house apartment. 6:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Keep in mind driving from the location she was found back to where she was abducted and her car returned isn't a direct route. 7:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It's full of mini twists and turns onto smaller roads. 7:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what are the chances that they all 7:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Next, the Kathy and Ross, is happened at Dump, capped behind the Sean, that Billy's dad owned. 7:22 [SPEAKER_00]: If Kathy was never moved, this would have been the opposite of the row, they would have taken it. 7:29 [SPEAKER_00]: To Dump, there's where had a very child's apartment, oh, just where they would have picked. 7:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Sister Kathy up are, are, and didn't make much sense. 7:41 [SPEAKER_00]: is the two hunters that found her, said they were hunting in the winter area, found her, is not way much animals, but they could have been hatching a squirrels. 7:57 [SPEAKER_00]: But none of them see another weird thing is they were not from this Arnold Alt. 8:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So they traveled a while to dinner book. 8:06 [SPEAKER_05]: So they let's adapt to area, you know, I know Jim Ellis. 8:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Beings, they were a high. 8:14 [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, let's discover what you're tossing work. 8:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Either giving some money to or the police will I because we believe the Scenel was involved. 8:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He was buddy buddy with basketball. 8:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Scenel's the officer of the responding officer. 8:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Great. 8:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Sir, it's possible if the dad's a sex friend bear. 8:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But they're all about it. 8:35 [SPEAKER_00]: You can do this and we will make sure that you're not. 8:39 [SPEAKER_00]: This software, be pulled up outside the carriage house apartments, possibly in a location, Billy could have parked along the street across from his apartment. 9:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And her car was returned right or that super that yellow fur biz where it's a driveway now right there that's where the car was sitting that's where you picture it in the newspaper okay see the car that's parked along the side ball yeah okay if Jerry parked where we are and there were cars parked parallel there he would not necessarily have seen the car stick and now because it was not sticking out any farther than the width of that car it was not sticking out and traffic 9:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not defending him. 9:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just saying. 9:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Where's Kathy's apartment though? 9:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Around on the other side, this was Billy's in this building. 9:46 [SPEAKER_02]: This is to be open. 9:46 [SPEAKER_12]: You just get a walk through here. 9:48 [SPEAKER_12]: You can't see those sounds like that. 9:50 [SPEAKER_12]: Those were all that was open. 9:51 [SPEAKER_12]: We walk up and around. 9:53 [SPEAKER_02]: But all I'm saying it is that everybody who's saying they would have seen the car. 9:58 [SPEAKER_08]: Why? 10:01 [SPEAKER_10]: Just lived in. 10:03 [SPEAKER_02]: That's lantern. 10:05 [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I know. 10:07 [SPEAKER_02]: She did, at the time, and she came to the nun's house. 10:13 [SPEAKER_02]: because some of her friends were playing music with the nuns, and she came over to see the nuns, which is around on the other side, but you get here. 10:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And the school up here, where all these kids are coming from, is the one that Edgar just troll and furl. 10:29 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's all so close. 10:32 [SPEAKER_02]: So close, yeah. 10:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And although we had to jump over a couple of exits on the beltway as the crow flies, it's very close. 10:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 10:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep. 10:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, share. 10:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, nobody else got the email about where I came to today. 10:48 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, good. 10:49 [SPEAKER_12]: I know we stand, but I like yours better mind. 10:51 [SPEAKER_12]: I like those heels or so. 10:55 [SPEAKER_12]: go up and around. 10:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, and just like Abby says in the documentary, that's the school where Ed girl was cruising. 11:02 [SPEAKER_02]: So look at that and that's where Russell taught. 11:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 11:06 [SPEAKER_02]: So Kathy took the cortisol. 11:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she was well. 11:09 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah. 11:11 [SPEAKER_10]: They're working spaces. 11:12 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, around here. 11:14 [SPEAKER_10]: That's hard. 11:17 [SPEAKER_12]: Under the cover of dark five, five sprints. 11:20 [SPEAKER_12]: And yeah, you're hooked. 11:22 [SPEAKER_12]: And he wouldn't have 11:25 [SPEAKER_00]: That would have parked over here, right? 11:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think five was like here. 11:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think five was hers. 11:32 [SPEAKER_02]: When Pat Dilner looped in with Russell, it's like a tent, and talked about the in a frayed. 11:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, she said she'd get her, like, book back and stuff and run to the apartment. 11:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course. 11:43 [SPEAKER_02]: She had to run around. 11:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Wow, so this was her apartment right here, that half under the ground. 11:51 [SPEAKER_00]: life can get overwhelming and talking to someone can make all the difference. 11:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 12:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and as little as a couple of days. 12:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You can connect by message, phone or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 12:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And if the first therapist 12:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help include a journal for personal reflection and daily group sessions on a variety of topics and they accept each essay and FSA cards. 12:32 [SPEAKER_00]: with over 2,000,000 users and a 4. star rating on trust pilot, better help is a trusted platform for accessible mental health care. 12:41 [SPEAKER_00]: If you think you could benefit from therapy, visit betterhelp.com, choose our podcast during sign up and get 10% off your first month. 12:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Taking care of your mental health is a sign of strength. 12:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Start your journey today. 13:01 [SPEAKER_00]: She was a little... and... 13:04 [SPEAKER_11]: If somebody just gave you those facts, and nothing else. 13:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So which one was Belus? 13:09 [SPEAKER_00]: He was the one. 13:09 [SPEAKER_00]: He was the one. 13:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It's what I thought. 13:11 [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, fine, but it'll work. 13:13 [SPEAKER_11]: It's a long term. 13:14 [SPEAKER_00]: There is the one. 13:15 [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, and this is the one. 13:16 [SPEAKER_12]: It was open. 13:21 [SPEAKER_00]: After we left the carriage house apartments, we met up with choices to brothers, Don, and Pat, Malekki. 13:29 [SPEAKER_00]: At the location her car was discovered on the day after she disappeared. 13:36 [SPEAKER_06]: No, this is all new. 13:38 [SPEAKER_06]: This was like, this was called boonfowls for a reason. 13:41 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what is that meaning? 13:43 [SPEAKER_06]: It's just a food town, but yeah, it's just something that's been around. 13:47 [SPEAKER_07]: It's just a whole portion all the way up to them. 13:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, because I talked to John Benham that Cam and I think you've met, man, right, when they came to your house, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 14:13 [SPEAKER_06]: Like I say, this from here on this is all me what's new this on the other side Sure It obviously wasn't built back 49 years. 14:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know, but I know wait you're not that old 14:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought you had your 29th birthday, not that. 14:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 14:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And we just heard storage when we fell on. 14:42 [SPEAKER_02]: But I, I don't know, I'm just glad to say that. 14:44 [SPEAKER_07]: OK, there you go. 14:45 [SPEAKER_07]: Do all's going. 14:47 [SPEAKER_07]: Rain for one more car. 14:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 14:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's it. 14:49 [SPEAKER_02]: But I do want to be neat up with a little bit of hell if it's not upsetting for you. 14:56 [SPEAKER_02]: I know Joyce had a process when she was going to see a boyfriend of calling her. 15:05 [SPEAKER_06]: explain to you how it worked. 15:09 [SPEAKER_06]: Going on to a military base and pop into some about 49 years ago. 15:14 [SPEAKER_06]: I can tell you what it is. 15:16 [SPEAKER_06]: And he has some concerns about what we've 15:25 [SPEAKER_06]: different throughout memory pages and meetings. 15:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 15:28 [SPEAKER_06]: And we went to let me with with the BIA that's okay. 15:33 [SPEAKER_06]: And the Baltimore County told Chase. 15:35 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. 15:36 [SPEAKER_06]: You came to one at my house. 15:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 15:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 15:38 [SPEAKER_02]: That was okay. 15:39 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. 15:39 [SPEAKER_06]: No. 15:39 [SPEAKER_06]: When I'm saying it, we just heard and you start thinking you know how things. 15:44 [SPEAKER_06]: You know, we're in whatever, any of you here are some different things and Pat can allow us and whoever anyone this was the Paul that we were out of meeting. 15:53 [SPEAKER_06]: This wasn't you weren't at this particular meeting, but he said that they had priests that he made a phone call from this phone booth to her boyfriend, but that didn't happen. 16:05 [SPEAKER_06]: Even the FBI verified it's a no, no way it didn't happen. 16:09 [SPEAKER_02]: No phone call. 16:11 [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no 16:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, where was your wife and where was he the paper company. 16:38 [SPEAKER_06]: I said a liquor store. 16:40 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so I don't want to get into the brake work. 16:43 [SPEAKER_07]: I've had a lot of them lay live where they don't land because you're tired. 16:50 [SPEAKER_07]: Getting back to when I was. 16:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, go ahead. 16:53 [SPEAKER_07]: Was why was your car here? 16:56 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay. 16:57 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay. 16:58 [SPEAKER_07]: In 67, we had to write. 16:59 [SPEAKER_07]: She was worth it in coldwood. 17:01 [SPEAKER_07]: She was using my barracuda to go back and forth to work. 17:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 17:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Who switched cars with her? 17:05 [SPEAKER_02]: No, that's not that. 17:06 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not that. 17:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 17:08 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry. 17:09 [SPEAKER_07]: She was using my barracuda to go back and forth to work. 17:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 17:14 [SPEAKER_06]: Because he was worked at the Coast Guard Yar with my father and he was their horrible arm. 17:19 [SPEAKER_06]: Sure. 17:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Which street were you wanting? 17:21 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. 17:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 17:22 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. 17:23 [SPEAKER_02]: LeBurn, that's one that has some of the older individuals on them, so. 17:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 17:29 [SPEAKER_02]: They're all. 17:29 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like in the meeting back to what I would say. 17:34 [SPEAKER_07]: Tell me why to keep your mouth shut. 17:36 [SPEAKER_07]: By now, it's going to be all the ways in your hand. 17:40 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah. 17:41 [SPEAKER_10]: I'll keep you until the day. 17:44 [SPEAKER_07]: I got, like I said, she was going back and forth to bowling with him. 17:54 [SPEAKER_07]: I put two rails in, in the back seat of the bare foot of the tail, I put the shotgun with two rails in there, the three tweaking, and I covered it. 18:06 [SPEAKER_07]: And I said, if anybody tries to attack you, don't even think about it. 18:10 [SPEAKER_07]: Just grab that thing. 18:11 [SPEAKER_07]: Don't worry about windows and whatever. 18:14 [SPEAKER_07]: But the thing that I got into her head was lock your doors. 18:21 [SPEAKER_07]: This happened in November, when it's to be on the car here. 18:25 [SPEAKER_07]: Why was she here? 18:26 [SPEAKER_07]: Twisted and drink. 18:28 [SPEAKER_07]: She didn't use a phone booth or is no phone booth, okay? 18:32 [SPEAKER_07]: The only thing that I'm thinking is that it's possible that she pulled in here because she was pulled over. 18:43 [SPEAKER_07]: Maskel's brother was in the police department. 18:47 [SPEAKER_07]: He had all the cops on his side. 18:49 [SPEAKER_07]: So if that's the case, if she pulled in here, then she would have opened her window or unlocked her door at the cop-ass, or whatever, that's my theory. 19:02 [SPEAKER_07]: Then, 19:04 [SPEAKER_07]: the fact that the try and works were found at the scene where she was my father's two tire foot tracks. 19:12 [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I didn't know that. 19:14 [SPEAKER_10]: Okay. 19:15 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. 19:15 [SPEAKER_07]: As a matter of fact, I'm not mistaken, the police have still got his tires. 19:20 [SPEAKER_07]: because they took the tire off. 19:22 [SPEAKER_07]: That's what I heard anywhere. 19:24 [SPEAKER_07]: That was from the FBI agent. 19:26 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, they said, we had some meetings. 19:28 [SPEAKER_06]: We had the FBI agents that were put on the case. 19:30 [SPEAKER_06]: And we had Baltimore County code case, whatever her name was. 19:34 [SPEAKER_06]: Court, we haven't very anything to say. 19:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Robin? 19:36 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I guess. 19:38 [SPEAKER_07]: And we're done. 19:40 [SPEAKER_07]: Do you know the other thing that I remember was that this was a bar? 19:46 [SPEAKER_02]: This building right here. 19:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 19:48 [UNKNOWN]: OK. 19:49 [SPEAKER_07]: The police interviewed everybody that was at that bar or the bar owner said he remembers seeing my father's car here when he come out to spoke a cigarette when he left that night. 20:03 [SPEAKER_07]: The car was still here, but it was parked in a different spot. 20:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 20:08 [SPEAKER_07]: So that's why apparently they took the car over to worship her body was found. 20:20 [SPEAKER_07]: But the lawyer who represented the girls that were abused, okay? 20:29 [SPEAKER_07]: She wanted to talk to Darlene, my sister. 20:35 [SPEAKER_07]: Harses, hard for an old thing. 20:39 [SPEAKER_07]: Um, because I got my train of thought he was really easy to, when she, when Darlene and her husband got there, she took Darlene into another room and asked her if she had been in the lessons. 20:52 [SPEAKER_07]: Then she said no, but she asked, why do you ask? 20:57 [SPEAKER_07]: One of the women who were abused told the lawyer that she overheard, mascal or a good 21:09 [SPEAKER_07]: If you ever touch my sister, Darlene, I'm going to turn you in. 21:14 [SPEAKER_07]: Now. 21:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Darlene, what an even in the family yet, Roshi. 21:19 [SPEAKER_07]: Of course you are. 21:20 [SPEAKER_07]: Wait. 21:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Darlene. 21:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Darlene. 21:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm thinking of dying. 21:24 [SPEAKER_02]: So I know. 21:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Darlene came to my house with you back. 21:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I agree. 21:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 21:28 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. 21:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 21:30 [SPEAKER_07]: Put that. 21:31 [SPEAKER_07]: Why that wasn't brought out, I don't know, because the lawyer knows who she talked to, and if she actually heard Masquard, do you say something to Masquard? 21:40 [SPEAKER_07]: There's a connection right there between the two of them. 21:43 [SPEAKER_07]: But they kept saying, with Joyce, there was no connection with Masquard. 21:46 [SPEAKER_07]: Telled, anyway. 21:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Darling was, how much younger than Joyce? 21:51 [SPEAKER_02]: two years. 21:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 21:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And she went to KO. 21:56 [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, she did not. 21:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, same clearance. 21:59 [SPEAKER_07]: But the school was living in Lansing, right down the street for where we lived. 22:05 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, to that. 22:06 [SPEAKER_07]: And she was, he was to do it. 22:08 [SPEAKER_07]: He's over. 22:09 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. 22:10 [SPEAKER_07]: He was doing, I guess, he was a Sunday service to do something, but the father 22:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I need to ask you about, okay, I talked to a young woman who said her sister was one of Joyce's best friends and that she used to watch Joyce and her sister get ready to go out, putting makeup on and stuff, like was there a house next to her that her friend here, something, and then the girl's name might have been Donna, Donna Norrato. 22:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, and she said that they used to make front of Moscow while they were getting dressed to go out and they'd be like imitate, name, and making faces and stuff. 22:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And so she knew that Joyce didn't like it. 22:58 [SPEAKER_02]: But she also told me that. 23:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And I assume this was accurate that when Joyce would kick off her boyfriend on the base, she would call him from here 23:13 [SPEAKER_02]: He would get ready. 23:14 [SPEAKER_02]: She would pull up in front of his barracks, beep two times, and he would come out. 23:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And the night that she disappeared, there was a two-time beat and he came out and nobody was there. 23:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Does that make any sense to you? 23:31 [SPEAKER_06]: I was in a couple of days when four of us cut on. 23:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry. 23:37 [SPEAKER_06]: I know by somebody, he told me he's the older brother. 23:41 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, another guy. 23:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, is that how it is? 23:43 [SPEAKER_06]: Nothing changed. 23:44 [SPEAKER_06]: You asked about the core, how she went out with core. 23:47 [SPEAKER_06]: I worked at Tina's. 23:49 [SPEAKER_06]: It's like a McDonald's before it's hard. 23:51 [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to work out. 23:53 [SPEAKER_06]: Perhaps we were having a... OK, I know that one. 23:55 [SPEAKER_06]: And it's not terribly for it, because it's a couple of times. 23:58 [SPEAKER_06]: I had to cool. 23:59 [SPEAKER_05]: Cool. 23:59 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. 24:00 [SPEAKER_06]: But this particular night, I had taken my parents calling as she drove a because she had an old Pontiac. 24:08 [SPEAKER_06]: It was only. 24:09 [SPEAKER_06]: And wherever she was born, she probably felt better or safer and the newer car. 24:15 [SPEAKER_06]: And it was only two years old. 24:18 [SPEAKER_06]: And she came up and said, here, switch us and go home. 24:21 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. 24:22 [SPEAKER_06]: And that was, that's how that came about. 24:23 [SPEAKER_06]: No more no less. 24:24 [SPEAKER_02]: You know what, people were making a huge deal over that one, and then they're like, what's the makes secret about why Joyce traded cars and you told me that was, yeah, believe me, Clay, say, her car was a bulls, but it was, I'm sure it was trustworthy. 24:38 [SPEAKER_06]: If you're going shopping in that time of year, want to take it and nobody need to appear also. 24:45 [SPEAKER_06]: I was looking through some of our stuff at home, our paperwork, a wife, Diane, went to KEL, okay? 24:54 [SPEAKER_02]: She's my contact. 24:55 [SPEAKER_06]: I know, but she can tell you. 24:57 [SPEAKER_06]: That's very good. 24:58 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, she can TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT 25:03 [SPEAKER_06]: We have a 1969 CEO yearbook and I was looking at where there was sister cat. 25:10 [SPEAKER_06]: There was an article in there about sister cat. 25:13 [SPEAKER_06]: There's a picture of my wife graduating eighth grade and if that's not sister cat, the next to her, I'll do something. 25:21 [SPEAKER_02]: eighth grade from where, say, 25:30 [SPEAKER_06]: No, went to high school in Diedenrad. 25:35 [SPEAKER_02]: OK, but Kathy was eighth grade was not Kio. 25:40 [SPEAKER_02]: She was nine, 10, 11. 25:42 [SPEAKER_06]: Well, maybe it was a year for it, but my wife went there. 25:44 [SPEAKER_06]: OK, and from great all the way up until you did Toshi came over to Baltimore County. 25:50 [SPEAKER_06]: I thought that was not because I kept looking at things. 25:52 [SPEAKER_06]: Is that right? 25:53 [SPEAKER_06]: Is that right? 25:53 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking in the 69 year. 25:55 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm looking. 25:56 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm putting my glasses on. 25:57 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm getting another pair of glasses. 25:58 [SPEAKER_02]: It might have been. 25:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Was, do you know if LaCadilla's dying? 26:01 [SPEAKER_02]: That's if she was involved in drama club or not? 26:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I graduated in 69. 26:07 [SPEAKER_06]: That's what's on the photo. 26:13 [SPEAKER_06]: Dad just confused things. 26:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, he was no. 26:16 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:17 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:18 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:19 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:19 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:20 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:21 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:21 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:24 [SPEAKER_06]: It was no. 26:24 [SPEAKER_06]: It was no. 26:25 [SPEAKER_06]: It was no. 26:25 [SPEAKER_06]: It was no. 26:26 [SPEAKER_06]: It was no. 26:27 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:27 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:27 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:28 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:28 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:28 [SPEAKER_02]: It was no. 26:31 [SPEAKER_06]: where we're shoved on the other side they had to be our beauty somewhere a catholic score called the out here with the catholic school with her parents for affliction call that's that's that's what happened with if I remember that so I remember in the keepers that's so to graph. 26:50 [SPEAKER_02]: When Donald was with the filmmakers, you know, he or he or he or by himself. 26:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 26:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Was the car was sitting right over there like next to her that one is, and I can look back in the movie, but that's the outside of the building. 27:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 27:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's, or that's where it was found for the car was. 27:08 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, because it was removed. 27:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Who who found the car? 27:10 [SPEAKER_06]: Our other brother. 27:12 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. 27:12 [SPEAKER_02]: And when did he find the car? 27:15 [SPEAKER_06]: Next day. 27:16 [SPEAKER_02]: where you guys out looking, which is like a content traded. 27:19 [SPEAKER_06]: We took off work and we started looking every my mother pulled because this doesn't happen. 27:24 [SPEAKER_06]: We're not the type of family that have sleepovers and all that kind of stuff. 27:28 [SPEAKER_06]: Very odd that she went out and never came back. 27:30 [SPEAKER_06]: So she was very concerned. 27:32 [SPEAKER_06]: As she told my brother, she was supposed to go to whatever shop center and over here and my brother came over here and goes, there's the house and restored it right away. 27:40 [SPEAKER_06]: Tom said that's how that came about. 27:43 [SPEAKER_02]: So, thank Procise and reverse. 27:46 [SPEAKER_02]: We're in the front seat. 27:48 [SPEAKER_07]: Never found a purse. 27:49 [SPEAKER_07]: Never found a pocket. 27:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, where the keys in the car? 27:53 [SPEAKER_07]: I think so. 27:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So somebody drove it back here. 27:57 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, they said, whoever drew that back, there was drug on the gas pedal, the brake pedal didn't have any journal. 28:07 [SPEAKER_07]: The person drew with closed feet. 28:09 [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, I'm brilliant. 28:10 [SPEAKER_02]: That sounds familiar. 28:11 [SPEAKER_02]: That's an happening Kathy's case. 28:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that the car that was returned Kathy's car the person. 28:18 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, let's say that state is say that and like I said, if we all the far third turn tracks had to see so. 28:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, we still have that outstanding FOIA request that's five years old that Abby submitted to the FBI and they're still saying it's awaiting an analyst, but we talked to Gary Childs who's the detective was one and he said that 28:44 [SPEAKER_02]: they're what he didn't tell us what but he said that the FBI or somebody had met with you guys and had given you returned some. 28:52 [SPEAKER_06]: We never got that. 28:54 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. 28:55 [SPEAKER_06]: No, no. 28:55 [SPEAKER_06]: We got everything because they were asking us if we had anything. 28:59 [SPEAKER_06]: Now, this was a long time ago that had joy. 29:03 [SPEAKER_06]: No, there was nothing exchange. 29:04 [SPEAKER_02]: He also said, and since he said it to all of us, I can say it to you. 29:08 [SPEAKER_06]: You say what you say would you want? 29:10 [SPEAKER_02]: That get the FBI told them that after 25 years, they destroy a lot of stuff, okay? 29:17 [SPEAKER_02]: But Gary knew an FBI agent struck me from wrong that went and found the slides from 29:29 [SPEAKER_02]: when she her body was recovered to see what was under the slides, right? 29:35 [SPEAKER_02]: And most but not from the FBI. 29:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Where did he say came from the medical and the folks in the her. 29:42 [SPEAKER_02]: So you already know this. 29:44 [SPEAKER_02]: So they looked at the slides and this guy was looking at them. 29:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, what do you say about the fingerprints? 29:53 [SPEAKER_00]: they're trying to extract DNA from the eights. 29:56 [SPEAKER_06]: From the eights. 29:57 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's a new process. 29:59 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that was always playing to us. 30:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And that most of what was under the slides was to damage to right-out, right-out, and to sense it. 30:10 [SPEAKER_06]: Again, it results. 30:11 [SPEAKER_06]: This was an ongoing thing. 30:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So why did you think there's 30:15 [SPEAKER_02]: evidence being held back from all of you. 30:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think somebody's hiding something? 30:20 [SPEAKER_06]: I've never heard of any kind of a murder case that they gave rid of any evidence and period. 30:24 [SPEAKER_06]: Whether it be FBI, whether anything, and why would we were told at one time that they gave a case that you're in a little county, it never happened. 30:32 [SPEAKER_06]: We're happened. 30:33 [SPEAKER_07]: I did hear that case surveyed that's Robin. 30:39 [SPEAKER_07]: Robin Tio. 30:41 [SPEAKER_07]: that she was supposed to be getting itself from the FBI, the finger prints you were there with. 30:46 [SPEAKER_07]: And then they were going to pursue the DNA, so we got the birdie more about that. 30:51 [SPEAKER_02]: She told me that when Kathy and Joyce because the times were so close together, and the FBI was responsible for Joyce and Baltimore County was responsible. 31:02 [SPEAKER_02]: as well for Kathy, that there was a joint task force and that they were going to see if they can connect at the tune. 31:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And that gave Robin a foot in the door to be able to look at the FBI files. 31:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I said, I shouldn't copy anything. 31:17 [SPEAKER_02]: She couldn't bring anything with her. 31:19 [SPEAKER_02]: But she said, she was able to look at some things. 31:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think somebody shared some of that with you. 31:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Did she come to your house and 31:26 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, just somebody's house and yeah, that's what we heard. 31:29 [SPEAKER_02]: They haven't. 31:30 [SPEAKER_02]: They're not ignoring you and they are still. 31:34 [SPEAKER_02]: We just saw Gary and I never met him before. 31:36 [SPEAKER_02]: He was very open. 31:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you guys think they too were connected? 31:41 [SPEAKER_07]: What's your opinion? 31:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you? 31:43 [SPEAKER_07]: I did definitely, yeah, yeah, that's what do you think? 31:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there were two other women. 31:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, very spontaneous, who was, you know, or Westport is on the other side of Lakeland when the other side of Lansing's down. 31:57 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah. 31:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 31:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And Pam Conyers, and then there was a young man named Danny Kerchetti, who was over at our medium, that could have been connected. 32:08 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. 32:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 32:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Where are your heads with all of this are you guys like frustrated this has been going on for 44 49 years. 32:18 [SPEAKER_06]: Nobody's ever contacted us until the keepers. 32:22 [SPEAKER_06]: It seemed like after the keeper there was great And click to me done an excellent and there was a little bit of the other thing that we heard 32:31 [SPEAKER_07]: When we met with the FBI agents, we're sitting here, we don't hear nothing nobody tells us anything. 32:37 [SPEAKER_07]: The FBI agents told us that what happened was they come here, they take, got everybody out, was in the bar to take good, okay? 32:45 [SPEAKER_07]: To have her boyfriend and anybody, there was in that day room at the time, they interviewed them. 32:50 [SPEAKER_07]: They also searched for me, even rooftops. 32:56 [SPEAKER_07]: Muffie for any per pusher. 32:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, whatever anything. 33:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Somebody could throw it up. 33:01 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, exactly. 33:03 [SPEAKER_06]: See, we thought they were doing nothing. 33:05 [SPEAKER_07]: Here in our body was failed. 33:07 [SPEAKER_07]: I understand they put a car from dealing. 33:10 [SPEAKER_06]: They blocked the water. 33:11 [SPEAKER_07]: They had her body was failed, partially in the water. 33:16 [UNKNOWN]: OK. 33:17 [SPEAKER_07]: And in order to go in there for evidence, it was swamped at the time, not anymore. 33:22 [SPEAKER_07]: They put a call for Dave up and went in there searching for evidence, couldn't find anything. 33:26 [SPEAKER_07]: Now, nobody told us any of this when it was going on. 33:29 [SPEAKER_07]: So as far as we knew, nothing was being. 33:31 [SPEAKER_02]: We all got stuck in the same place because when it's a cold case, 33:35 [SPEAKER_02]: They don't like the information goes one way. 33:37 [SPEAKER_02]: They don't tell us anything. 33:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Because let's say they told me something that was in the files. 33:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And then somebody gets arrested for this. 33:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I could be hauled into court. 33:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And they could say, Gemma saw the files. 33:49 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're throwing this in now. 33:51 [SPEAKER_02]: But so I'm just skipping my mind. 33:53 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to ask you guys. 33:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Joseph Maskel was counseling soldiers that had come back from Vietnam with PTSD and we're stationed at Fort Anita. 34:05 [SPEAKER_02]: And I always wondered if maybe he could have took somebody that was like pretty out there to do the dirty work. 34:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't want to upset you, so tell me to stop. 34:18 [SPEAKER_02]: But apparently Joyce was found the way our American soldiers were trained to kill the vehicle. 34:26 [SPEAKER_06]: because it's fast with like, not interrupt you, but when you have a thought, you don't lose it. 34:31 [SPEAKER_02]: No, go ahead. 34:33 [SPEAKER_02]: That's okay. 34:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm right there with you. 34:34 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, because Steve said to the FBI about the route, how was it tied? 34:41 [SPEAKER_06]: Do you still have anything sold at high, not differently? 34:45 [SPEAKER_06]: Sure. 34:45 [SPEAKER_06]: Then I will it. 34:47 [SPEAKER_06]: Now I would just tie a bow tie or something as a way I am. 34:49 [SPEAKER_06]: It's frustrating. 34:50 [SPEAKER_06]: It's frustrating. 34:51 [SPEAKER_06]: because we feel that it is way for us to die off, which is just happening, and it all will prevent that. 34:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's not going to go away. 34:59 [SPEAKER_02]: He's 29. 35:02 [SPEAKER_06]: We appreciate that somebody's still involved in that. 35:05 [SPEAKER_02]: You kidding? 35:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, this is really important to us and what happens with you guys not being given information was wrong. 35:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, we're going. 35:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're fighting for that. 35:16 [SPEAKER_06]: We didn't ask the right questions. 35:18 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know. 35:19 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know. 35:20 [SPEAKER_06]: And how often does this happen? 35:22 [SPEAKER_06]: Hopefully never. 35:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And if that is the case where evidence was destroyed many years later, that's not okay. 35:30 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 35:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Great thing about a podcast is we have a platform to create change. 35:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's something that needs change. 35:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So if that's true, it needs to be changed. 35:38 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's somebody definitely community. 35:41 [SPEAKER_02]: So you totally have our support. 35:44 [SPEAKER_00]: We packed up and followed Don and Pat Malaki to the location at Fort Mead, where choices remains were discovered. 35:52 [SPEAKER_00]: It takes about 10 minutes today to drive from where her car was discovered, to where her remains were found. 35:59 [SPEAKER_00]: This area is now protected by it. 36:02 [SPEAKER_00]: When we arrived at the entrance to the grounds, the gate was closed and locked. 36:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So we waited for a long time. 36:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And just by walk, a park ranger passed us on his way home. 36:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Pad explained why we were there, and the reason we wanted to visit the location by the river. 36:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So the park ranger escorted us onto the property and followed us to where Joyce was found. 36:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Even when you got onto the fort, need base back then, this area really wasn't a common place to be. 36:36 [SPEAKER_07]: It's a little low, goes through the whole thing, but I don't know where it came from. 36:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so was there any, okay. 36:46 [SPEAKER_02]: But Abby and I looked into this, we went down to the Central Library, because we could not find anything online that covered Joyce's death, because one of the papers until the strike and the news of merit and that covered it, it's all when Mike Latace where you have to turn the wheel and look at the articles, and there were a lot of articles and 37:15 [SPEAKER_02]: found, help, I'm the name. 37:19 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I don't remember. 37:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that two hunters also found Kathy. 37:25 [SPEAKER_02]: We were just talking about that. 37:26 [SPEAKER_00]: What is it now? 37:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 37:28 [SPEAKER_02]: In doing some research, the older one, Kathy, is a registered sexist. 37:34 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know. 37:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And they were from Middle River, which is where A basketball hat is built. 37:39 [SPEAKER_02]: It's been all went down, though, with me. 37:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And there was no reason for them to be all the way over. 37:45 [SPEAKER_02]: We're shooting squirrels, rabbit. 37:48 [SPEAKER_07]: Well, as I said, from what the FBI said, the hunters that found Joyce's body were mushroom hunters. 37:55 [SPEAKER_07]: They weren't, well, banged back and shoot them up. 37:59 [SPEAKER_07]: And I know there's a lot of people that do that. 38:00 [SPEAKER_07]: They go around and they go for a mushroom. 38:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't they take late days or dogs or something? 38:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that the newspaper said that they were deer hunting, setting up a deer or something. 38:11 [SPEAKER_10]: Like a deer boy. 38:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, a deer blind. 38:13 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what the word was. 38:14 [SPEAKER_00]: They answer what we're doing in a reserve. 38:16 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I thought this was weird. 38:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 38:17 [SPEAKER_00]: When I read down the newspaper, I was like, why do you want to reserve them? 38:20 [SPEAKER_06]: That's just like we're sister cat. 38:22 [SPEAKER_06]: That's a residential portion when you go down there. 38:24 [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't see the story. 38:26 [SPEAKER_07]: squirrels. 38:27 [SPEAKER_06]: No. 38:27 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think he would run there. 38:28 [SPEAKER_07]: Like I said, if you go down, just kick right. 38:32 [SPEAKER_07]: As you go up the road, you'll be a building on the left. 38:35 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, and it says stop for a pass or whatever, but I never did, and the media in the after that, it'd make a left hand turn. 38:45 [SPEAKER_07]: And as you go down the road, maybe a half a mile, and it's all wood to come to a bridge. 38:53 [SPEAKER_07]: You stop before the bridge, and look on the other side and look straight down where the lives of turns, that's where the bottom is back. 39:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Let me ask you this, the files that the FBI has, even though they said they destroyed things after 25 years, they told us they have 4,000 pages that an analyst has to go through and redact every day, yeah. 39:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, now it's a morning on year. 39:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, any indication about 39:25 [SPEAKER_02]: anything that's in there or it's that is up the stuff where they lie in was it thrown away. 39:32 [SPEAKER_06]: No, we've heard there was a lot of pages. 39:34 [SPEAKER_06]: Somebody said that. 39:35 [SPEAKER_06]: But once again, we are completely 100% out of the picture. 39:42 [SPEAKER_06]: until this came about, we knew we had if somebody had handsome information over our parents, they did not say anything. 39:52 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, it's not. 39:53 [SPEAKER_06]: It's not. 39:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And you also noticed the coincidence that they're saying that this evidence was destroyed, the same period of time the doro and the ro in do case is happened. 40:04 [SPEAKER_02]: There are a lot of, we're talking about politicians all the way up to really important people involved on. 40:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And they were all taking care of each other. 40:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 40:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And it does happen. 40:15 [SPEAKER_02]: There would be a service with masquerals. 40:17 [SPEAKER_06]: It does happen. 40:18 [SPEAKER_00]: The detective also shared with us another important detail about if the evidence is being distorted at that time, there's a lot of question on why would you be destroying it when you could have tested it with DNA that wasn't available back then. 40:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That was a time in the 90s where DNA was very advanced. 40:37 [SPEAKER_06]: Again, our brother-in-law, he was a policeman. 40:40 [SPEAKER_06]: He went to Baltimore City and went to Baltimore County. 40:42 [SPEAKER_06]: And he's never heard any case like this that you would get rid of it, heaven is ever, ever. 40:48 [SPEAKER_06]: Now, if something happens to the building, like it blows up or burned down, that's something entirely different. 40:54 [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, what we've been hearing were questioning every box of the year. 40:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Very helpful. 41:00 [SPEAKER_06]: So you don't it sad to say, but you really don't trust anybody put your telling you that these young FBI They were at that meeting. 41:07 [SPEAKER_06]: They were all going home and everything and we thought oh for a way that we were talking It's frustrating. 41:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I believe it It comes a car Probably before I leave and I hold the gate. 41:24 [SPEAKER_02]: I can go drop to him 41:27 [SPEAKER_02]: What's I don't know about? 41:29 [SPEAKER_12]: No, I has Maryland flates. 41:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Look at the solicitor. 41:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I know this person's earlier for you, though. 41:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I need to get into the... 41:56 [SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't think for all of them. 41:58 [SPEAKER_02]: He's going to be down for the same thing, but I try to listen. 42:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they sound like they're in love with you. 42:01 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I don't think they're in love with you. 42:03 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no. 42:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Did they ever talk first of all once these contours? 42:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Did they call the police? 42:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Did they call the police? 42:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Command or what did they do? 42:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they're in love with you. 42:16 [SPEAKER_02]: OK. 42:16 [SPEAKER_07]: I couldn't imagine that when they found them, I guess I had deer's been building up here. 42:21 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, where are you supposed to stop you from right. 42:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, sure. 42:25 [SPEAKER_07]: That's where they went on then they know to find the Army and then you contact who contact you guys. 42:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Pat. 42:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was just wondering, would breathe. 42:43 [SPEAKER_09]: We have to breathe. 42:46 [SPEAKER_09]: Contact, take a look at the old work for it. 42:52 [SPEAKER_09]: Now, that's the new grid, because they did. 42:58 [SPEAKER_09]: He was an old army bridge and the pan right there. 43:02 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that's good. 43:06 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. 43:07 [SPEAKER_09]: Because they couldn't burn over that all, that ended up in the break. 43:11 [SPEAKER_09]: That's why that's what's going on. 43:14 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay. 43:15 [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you. 43:15 [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you. 43:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you very much. 44:02 [SPEAKER_08]: Now, that area there wasn't as high as it is now. 44:08 [SPEAKER_07]: It was low, and partially in the water. 44:11 [SPEAKER_08]: Got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, 44:30 [SPEAKER_08]: that's something they would be the rest of my life. 44:34 [SPEAKER_07]: Now, if you take this lead, follow it down. 44:38 [SPEAKER_07]: That is the backside of Tipto Airport. 44:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And where is Kimbero from here? 44:43 [SPEAKER_02]: It's the base hospital. 44:44 [SPEAKER_07]: It's a base hospital, but I can't tell you. 44:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And they, he and old. 44:48 [SPEAKER_07]: did they handle the autopsy and air was that turned over to I said that I can't tell okay I know that her body was taking the camera and what they did there I have no idea earlier you mentioned that mushroom hunters found her that's what they'd see FBI said but they have been mushroom hunting in November do you think 45:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I have no idea, but it was warm that year and this was just right after Kathy disappeared. 45:19 [SPEAKER_02]: So we know it went up to the 60s, so I don't know, yeah, that's what the FBI said. 45:26 [SPEAKER_07]: Because initially we heard there was just honors. 45:30 [SPEAKER_07]: And then we didn't find out until we went to Rosemary's and met with the FBI agents. 45:36 [SPEAKER_07]: They're the ones that said they were mushroom. 45:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a road or a trail that goes close to where she was found? 45:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, that's what they're saying here. 45:45 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah 46:07 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, maybe it was, I don't know where much we came from, but. 46:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 46:12 [SPEAKER_02]: What about mushroom hunt? 46:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Would they have mushroom hunted? 46:15 [SPEAKER_02]: No, remember? 46:17 [SPEAKER_02]: You don't. 46:20 [SPEAKER_09]: I know there are people coming, and then go after all the middlehead. 46:25 [SPEAKER_09]: You know, head for arms. 46:26 [SPEAKER_09]: We had people coming and get them to take if they're going to sell up at the restaurant. 46:30 [SPEAKER_09]: Who are those? 46:31 [SPEAKER_02]: They don't have friends. 46:32 [SPEAKER_09]: It's all at the restaurant. 46:33 [SPEAKER_02]: They look rough for you. 46:34 [SPEAKER_02]: It's the word. 46:35 [SPEAKER_02]: I think they look the same as they did. 46:37 [SPEAKER_09]: But I don't think there's a lot of one. 46:41 [SPEAKER_09]: I've always thought that got to be your own thought out, but we have a guy doing a very, and he's done a comprehensive plan survey of every plan on the rent for $4,000. 46:55 [SPEAKER_09]: That he's never found clothed, but now that it's legal kind of, are you a ranger? 47:01 [SPEAKER_02]: How long have you worked here? 47:04 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm here. 47:05 [SPEAKER_09]: He can work in Florida. 47:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, thank you. 47:08 [SPEAKER_09]: It was better change, or it was the same day every day. 47:12 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I like seas, yeah. 47:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And now all the entire people are looking for a little when those big cars do have the seas. 47:20 [SPEAKER_09]: It's pretty small. 47:22 [SPEAKER_09]: Don't worry. 47:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you know about this case I've heard about it? 47:26 [SPEAKER_07]: So, Perry, who would be here with a lot of lure? 47:30 [SPEAKER_07]: Because they, I could put it off for me. 47:33 [SPEAKER_07]: They put the water out the water to go in, 47:39 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I don't know how they managed to do that. 47:42 [SPEAKER_07]: I said that was an old bridge and she found her there. 47:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm surprised someone that just didn't drive across the bridge didn't see her. 47:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, this wasn't driving. 47:49 [SPEAKER_06]: This was training for tank and a tank's for acting on this way for her. 47:54 [SPEAKER_06]: And she was found the next day, right? 47:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, man. 47:59 [SPEAKER_06]: And I like sister Kathy, sister Kathy, stayed there for a while. 48:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, so during your way. 48:03 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah. 48:04 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, this wasn't like this. 48:05 [SPEAKER_06]: This bridge wasn't here. 48:07 [SPEAKER_06]: That's what he was just to explain the innocent with all the one. 48:11 [SPEAKER_06]: But you see old bridge for a 49 years ago. 49:00 [UNKNOWN]: You
Show full transcript (757 segments)