0:08 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching. 0:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey guys, welcome back to File Play. 0:31 [SPEAKER_00]: This time, I'm actually in person in Maryland with Gemma and I are joined by Gina Trisa. 0:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And Gemma, why don't you explain what we're going to be talking about today. 0:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody's been waiting for this because we made a big announcement about this in capital letters a couple weeks ago actually we're all in Maryland that doesn't mean that it's okay if somebody wants to get rid of us that we're in one one place but anyway so we're excited today because we've never done anything like this before. 1:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Shane and I have done a lot like 70 podcasts together, but we've never done one with audio and video, but because this is such an important topic and an important focus, that's what we're doing. 1:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And so we're going to ask you to settle in because this is something that is critical to all of us. 1:20 [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, I'm actually going to read the first 1:23 [SPEAKER_02]: sentence of the focus because I want to make sure everybody understands exactly what you're going to hear. 1:29 [SPEAKER_02]: So the focus of this interview is on the challenges that Jean and Teresa and many other survivors have faced with the institutions that betrayed them. 1:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And those institutions are 1:52 [SPEAKER_02]: government, local and federal because the FBI is still preventing the Malekki family from looking at records that belong to them. 2:05 [SPEAKER_02]: But mostly our local law enforcement because we know that police officers were involved in this. 2:14 [SPEAKER_02]: mess. 2:15 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to go back and start with the early legal battles and a lot about the doro case. 2:23 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to go back to the 90s and we're going to ask Jean to talk about that first and tell us about the doro case how that came to be and you're all in that. 2:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, Gemma and Shane for doing this and Tree Summit. 2:38 [SPEAKER_01]: We had have this chance to chat a bit 2:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And we've done things differently, but we have continued to do things. 2:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's me as that's the key. 2:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It was in spring 1992, I was 38, which by on the side, that is the age of the sexual mutations now. 3:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So even if now I was remembering it at a time that was appropriate or acceptable, it was now. 3:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It took a number of years for me to finally talk about it outwardly. 3:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I literally still have no memory other than what I've remembered. 3:20 [SPEAKER_01]: things like some of the fun things I have purposely tried, set with classmates, done different things, been reminded by them who they saw me as so that I wouldn't just be stuck with these horrible memories. 3:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But I felt as if a 14 year old set down next to me instead I have something to tell you. 3:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I had already remembered my uncle and abuse that happened in that his hands, but this story, the process of these memories that were, I call it, I was throwing up memories of Joseph Mastel and Neil Magnusley abusing. 4:00 [SPEAKER_01]: These are very disgusting memories. 4:03 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no chronological order to it. 4:05 [SPEAKER_01]: They're stored as I've spoken to a number of trauma experts 4:10 [SPEAKER_01]: In certain part of the brain, different than your regular mass segment or whatever part that is, because it's so traumatic, it just gets sucked into these this one particular area, so when it comes, it just drops and yet it unsolves and you feel as if you were in. 4:28 [SPEAKER_01]: the experience for the first time. 4:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes I was a here I am 38 year old woman crowed up on a floor feeling as if I am being horribly abused by these men and it's the first time I'm actually experiencing it. 4:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It was for me nightmare. 4:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't not just nightmare. 4:50 [SPEAKER_01]: It was I hope that was crazy. 4:52 [SPEAKER_01]: because I thought I was all together. 4:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I was now a spiritual director. 4:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I was very involved with him with church and I really felt like I must have really gone off the deep end because I couldn't made up what it was these people were doing to me. 5:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So, the work began. 5:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Then later in the year, I had a number of meetings with the Catholic Church Representative. 5:19 [SPEAKER_01]: At the first one, that was with Roy. 5:22 [SPEAKER_01]: He literally held up a Manila folder and said, you're the first person to ever voice a complaint about this man. 5:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think my sister and my 5:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So I, as a survivor who thinks I'm not anyway now, think I'm totally responsible, not just for what I'm saying, but proving it because he's telling me I'm the only person saying it. 5:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So it just intensified my nuttiness. 5:52 [SPEAKER_01]: or so I thought I had meetings formal meetings with them and where I gave a statement. 5:59 [SPEAKER_01]: After the first one, Joseph Maskel, who was in his 50s, was removed from Poy Cross Parish and sent to the Institute of Living and Connecticut to be evaluated. 6:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Then I had the second one where I shared with them adults that I remembered and at a certain point they told me that they couldn't get any corroboration they couldn't sign any proof of my allegations and they were going to have to let him back out in 1994 when I agreed to do the lawsuit. 6:34 [SPEAKER_01]: which I had never ever thought any would ever do, where I would be participating in a suit that would be at the statute. 6:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It was the United States as a Baltimore of the school sisters of Notre Dame, and it was against Joseph Maskel. 6:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And at that time in 1994, some people had started speaking to the lawyers in Theresa was one who had, I had never met, I didn't meet Theresa until 2016. 7:02 [SPEAKER_01]: but she had an experience that was more common or to my experience more. 7:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, the reason that I said I would do this lawsuit wasn't to bankrupt the Catholic Church. 7:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I am not a church, but sure I am not out to 7:23 [SPEAKER_01]: empty out their coffers. 7:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I have no belief that I will get rich. 7:30 [SPEAKER_01]: But they were letting him back out and not just back out, but into a parish near where I lived. 7:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I have said these things. 7:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And I knew because I'd be gun remembering, then now he's going to be around kids and I had this little kid in me that was only 14 15 years old. 7:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So I knew the fear of what that meant then I also knew that he had he had threatened me with a gun when I was young. 8:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So I had these images of him coming in my back window to shoot me and my kids. 8:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the other reason that I said, yes, was because back when we were in school, I graduated 1971, the statute of limitations stated then that I had to wait for within three years of when the abuse stopped in order to hold anyone accountable. 8:35 [SPEAKER_01]: When I was explained that, 8:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I believe I was in my three-year statute of attation period. 8:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I had never remembered anything. 8:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I could have fallen over Joseph Maskelm when it showed you the how he was. 8:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And the things that it's not you remember now you remembered. 8:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I have been remembering for years. 9:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It comes. 9:04 [SPEAKER_01]: in bits and pieces like a puzzle. 9:07 [SPEAKER_01]: It is excruciating repaying foot times. 9:11 [SPEAKER_01]: It can take a year just to go from the beginning of the thought of something that just is this real reaction to a full-fledged memory of what happened and there it be to deal with the impact it had on me. 9:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Even though I'm only just remembering a year before, 9:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So I truly believe then, and I believe now, that I was in my three-year statute of invitation appearing in it. 9:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And I had a way to hold that man accountable. 9:47 [SPEAKER_01]: But as we know, that did not happen. 9:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things that I've seen 10:00 [SPEAKER_01]: One was I was terrified, I've now told secret. 10:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I have now said these things and no one did a damn thing about it. 10:09 [SPEAKER_01]: They did worse than that. 10:10 [SPEAKER_01]: They put him back out in a parish. 10:12 [SPEAKER_01]: They stopped paying for my, they had started paying for my therapy. 10:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And once they couldn't corroborate, they stopped the therapy payments, put him back out in a parish. 10:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was terrified. 10:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I believed and still do that I was in my stature limitation period. 10:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And somebody else who had a memory of this experience, who had been, who affirmed this craziness in my head, 10:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Teresa will be perfectly honest. 10:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that I was glad or I was mad because I would have rather been crazy. 10:53 [SPEAKER_01]: What that, they were the three reasons that I agreed to take these systems in this, this monster, I'm not going to call them monster. 11:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like to give them names that just this connect them from their, he made choices. 11:09 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a predator. 11:10 [SPEAKER_01]: He was per, he was a perpetrator. 11:13 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a reindeer. 11:15 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a mastermind of perpetrating sexual abuse or showgirl. 11:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So that is how I stored it. 11:26 [SPEAKER_01]: The process was thinking they were going to help me. 11:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I was during fall. 11:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I believe they were going to take the ball and run with it. 11:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought they were going to give support to my family because now I have these memories that I and it went from that to I was left alone with my husband and my children feeling like we had to fend for ourselves. 11:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Teresa, could you explain to us your evolution of your involvement in that case? 11:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't always, but I was crazy. 12:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I always had an ongoing memory of a lot of things that Mascul did to me. 12:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And I had told people that he was a pervert and that he wiped him gives me deductions, I don't know, I didn't take my clothes off, but I did not really, I did not remember the actual rates until, 12:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I've gotten involved. 12:27 [SPEAKER_01]: What happened was when I received the letter about conceptual behaviors at Kiyo, during the years I was there, I was really happy. 12:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And because like I said, I thought I was crazy. 12:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew what he had done to me and my mom had just passed away horribly. 12:47 [SPEAKER_01]: As I focused on it, I started remembering it didn't stop there. 12:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't just a dish, then I said, the dish would hit all right. 12:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And I started having breakthrough memories, and I talked to little lawyers. 13:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, at first, I was going to be a witness. 13:05 [SPEAKER_01]: because I can verify that, yes, he'd like to take close off. 13:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he would touch me and do weird things. 13:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to be a witness. 13:15 [SPEAKER_01]: But then I was waking up in the middle of the night screaming and telling Randy I was raped. 13:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And he was running around looking for the right news. 13:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And it just chethered my already upside down world. 13:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Worst, I went into with anger. 13:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't wear anything at Gierman's last two years. 13:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I was lost, ran off, married somebody I didn't even know, and I was angry about them that. 13:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And when I knew that someone had the courage to board and record this, 13:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I was very much touched about your parents, Jane, and I do think it was good they chipped a separate because an Averma is furious about it. 14:03 [SPEAKER_01]: They wouldn't even say why we were separate except we were for me. 14:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was very happy. 14:10 [SPEAKER_01]: to go back to them and to tell the world that it wasn't right. 14:14 [SPEAKER_01]: What happened to Kiev? 14:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Can I ask have a couple of logistics questions? 14:18 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people that listen have asked about. 14:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Gene, could you review for us again who the defendants were in the suit that you 14:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I became Jane Doe, and Theresa was Jane Row. 14:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so the defendants were, can you name the defendants and why you assumed each defendant? 14:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Joseph Maskel, he was being sued for they had a whole list of things that he had done that were against the law to be doing that with a minor. 14:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I was suing him personally in order for him to be taken on street. 15:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Murphy, he was the lawyer for the Archdiocese of Baltimore, and I was suing them because I believed that they knew 15:12 [SPEAKER_01]: that they were his employers. 15:15 [SPEAKER_01]: They were the ones that needed to be held accountable for what their, that's as it sounds very non-sharp, but what their employees were doing and especially with children involved. 15:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it was Harrison, who was for the school sisters in Notre Dame, and that was because there was memory of nuns. 15:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But then also it was, again, I felt trees can stay in what she knows different with her background, but it was that they were in school when they know that they were bringing them to 16:01 [SPEAKER_02]: So it wasn't until Theresa joined the suit that Richter was involved. 16:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Was named. 16:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that correct, Theresa? 16:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you explain that? 16:11 [SPEAKER_01]: When I told the lawyer, said, Moscow will take me to the Donna Collab just and then I had memories of things that happened with the Donna Collab just they asked about including him in the lawsuit. 16:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I said, yes, that happened. 16:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Serim and, sure, we late. 16:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, lawyer that represented Victor, she was Hexpool lawyer. 16:32 [SPEAKER_01]: She was harsh when they acted harsh. 16:35 [SPEAKER_01]: But all the lawyers who went to Harrison, by the way, I can't pass up in an opportunity and say how much I hate it. 16:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And when I actually went to a fragment in another jammy, and I called his office, and I asked for Mr. Harrison, instead I wanted to hire Mr. Harrison, just to see if he really died, and they didn't tell me I found out other ways. 16:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 16:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Ms. Lake was a good lawyer. 17:01 [SPEAKER_01]: She was a bad person. 17:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And she represented Richter who had all the other by her snitchy mentioned I had to endure their questions before we ask you to share that experience. 17:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Each of you can one of you give us a little bit of information about the attorneys that were representing the two of you. 17:23 [SPEAKER_00]: life can get overwhelming, and talking to someone can make all the difference. 17:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 17:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and as little as a couple of days, you can connect by message, phone, or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 17:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And if the first therapist 17:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help include a journal for personal reflection and daily group sessions on a variety of topics and they accept each essay and FSA cards. 18:04 [SPEAKER_00]: with over 2,000,000 users, and a 4. star rating on trust pilot. 18:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help is a trusted platform for accessible mental health care. 18:14 [SPEAKER_00]: If you think you could benefit from therapy, visit betterhelp.com, choose our podcast during sign-up, and get 10% off your first month. 18:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Taking care of your mental health is a sign of strength. 18:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Start your journey today. 18:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll start, Teresa, because my experience may be different than traces, because we were separate time with different things. 18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Our personalities are different. 18:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I was, as you need to remember, I was in the middle, I was a victim that should never been in that situation. 18:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say that right now. 18:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Any victim who feels they want to hold somebody accountable, make sure you have an advocate with you. 18:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody who is a trauma specialist, you need to make sure you have the people in place because you get triggered left and upside down. 19:04 [SPEAKER_01]: There's all kinds of stuff, the way that they ask questions, the way that they talk to you, the way that they look at you, how many times they ask the question, who can be there with you? 19:16 [SPEAKER_01]: It just to me, to me, it was I liked Phil. 19:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It was Phil Dante's Beverly Wallace and then Jim Edgier came on. 19:28 [SPEAKER_01]: still had been someone my brother had known. 19:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And how still came into it was the archdiocese. 19:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I fired Steve Tolly because he told me I wasted your time when I gave them the list of the adults who had who I had remembered. 19:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And I told him he asked me if I had anyone else that I remembered and he said I thought they were girls. 19:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he didn't ask me. 19:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't understand. 19:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So my husband fired him and then rich away when I called him to see if he prayed with me, he said no, get a lawyer. 20:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So my brother, there were two that we were looking at and my brother knew, 20:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So we what I went down and I signed over with still gave him the dollar or whatever and that was it because nothing was happening with a lawsuit or anything. 20:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just in case mask of decided to Beverly walls was just his kind of like partnering crime, but it wasn't a lot of interacting until They started right when I remembered Kathy says neck when I remembered her desk. 20:38 [SPEAKER_01]: My family literally drove me to Phil's office. 20:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And three of them went to the Unack-Pret Library to look at Michael's fish because they were like, there was a line who was murdered. 20:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And they went looking for that information. 20:56 [SPEAKER_01]: My brother took me to Phil and said, we need to tell you what else is going with you. 21:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So Phil, to me, 21:05 [SPEAKER_01]: He was what I needed. 21:07 [SPEAKER_01]: He respected that I was a victim of how I had to do things. 21:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Beverly Wallace became the cat's meow. 21:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I love Beverly, I think that she, I think too part of it was because it was a woman that was a part of that team and it meant a lot to me, not saying anything other than she had the great ability to. 21:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Jim Maggio came on board because it was he just knew he had to be a part of this and Jim is a big, he was the biggest sweetheart, you could ever find gentle and yet new is stuff and was really right there. 21:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So they were the three, and I felt very comfortable with all three. 21:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, we might have had different experiences, but that was my feeling. 21:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Teresa, I've got to make it three of them. 21:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll never forget the first interview when I was telling him about my school's bone and how girls feel about that. 22:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And Magia said, have you just gone through life, might not do anything, because I had seen a therapist and I said, yeah, she'd happen. 22:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So just during the life, but I grew the life three of them. 22:15 [SPEAKER_01]: especially Beverly. 22:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I could call her like when I got really upset and had the memories. 22:22 [SPEAKER_01]: She was always there on the veterans for me and I actually I liked the three of us so much. 22:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I why they're ready and I got married in the middle of jail row. 22:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that not enough? 22:32 [SPEAKER_01]: It was quite I've been three and I'm in my wedding and we had a great time. 22:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It was great. 22:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if our listeners know that Jim went to Cardinal Gibbons, which was next door to Kiyo, and knew and dated a lot of Kiyo girls. 22:50 [SPEAKER_02]: So he actually also taught me how to smoke a cigar. 22:53 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not claimed if I aim. 22:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Gina, I wanted to follow up with something that you mentioned a few minutes ago. 23:03 [SPEAKER_00]: You had you mentioned, I think that during the trial is when you remembered a nun being killed. 23:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that right? 23:11 [SPEAKER_01]: It was not, no, it wasn't during the trial. 23:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 23:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember the nun being killed at the beginning of the 1990s to rate. 23:19 [SPEAKER_01]: The trial didn't happen until I think they presented it 94 or 95s. 23:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Mark, 23:26 [SPEAKER_00]: The microphone. 23:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't. 23:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just one. 23:28 [SPEAKER_00]: You took a further into the micro fish or the micro fish. 23:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that how you say it? 23:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Fish. 23:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Micro fish. 23:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's time to tell my girl to the library to use it. 23:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm always like, is a fish or a fish or fish. 23:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 23:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to hear more about how they took you presenting that information when you had those memories come back. 23:48 [SPEAKER_01]: The memories when I had 23:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, it was with our lawyers that I shared it and then my family got a private detective, Dick Bussey, and he then started asking questions and that's how we came about with that anonymous letter that was just going to go out, but it seemed to me that. 24:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It made sense to the lawyers who we were working. 24:14 [SPEAKER_01]: It almost was like the dots were coming together. 24:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I will say my experience of deposition, 21 hours of deposition was 24:25 [SPEAKER_01]: None of it did they treat it like they believed it or that it well, it made sense or that I was speaking English. 24:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would have to say that I was so beside myself with that experience that I came away, I was just, I was traumatized by it. 24:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So I came away just that they didn't, 24:47 [SPEAKER_01]: believe anything I was saying and I was running five hundred steps ahead of them trying to appease them and say it in the way they could understand. 24:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So if just got thrown right in with everything I was saying they didn't treat anything like they believed it. 25:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure that was something that they actually thought this woman really is nuts. 25:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Eventually, it made me the same way that they would say, and you say this and you say that word, I did have a debt point in my debt, and it was in the background. 25:15 [SPEAKER_01]: You had supported me at that time. 25:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I did have to tell you about the boss because I didn't want to read enough how did it sound paper. 25:23 [SPEAKER_01]: and he would prepare me for what these lawyers were going to do. 25:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And I went in there with the attitude and at one point, Phil Dante said, we're gaining points with you. 25:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It would not be for asking me about to do that. 25:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And animals and what was it? 25:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I came along, drawn out the explanation of a dish bag in the animal Bible one and the same apparatus. 25:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And I went 25:49 [SPEAKER_01]: in the vivid detail about what happened in that. 25:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And then at one point, they'll said, Louisiana, because it, I, it's like, in the past, but yeah, they pissed me off. 26:03 [SPEAKER_01]: They really did. 26:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And I had to pound myself down. 26:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But the way they questioned me was like, you're making a soft, you're fabricating this. 26:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And anything I said, they questioned. 26:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to ask Teresa about something that our viewers probably need clarification. 26:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Teresa, two things to ask you about one is what is the difference between a trial and a hearing? 26:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Because a lot of people took away from the keepers that this was a trial and it never got that far. 26:36 [SPEAKER_02]: So Teresa, can you explain the difference and how that all works? 26:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, big difference, whenever you file a lawsuit, the option is going to try to crush the well suit or try to make it go all the way. 26:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And they do that via violence or hearings or different things. 26:56 [SPEAKER_01]: My dad had told me the statute of limitations was established law, and that was the big hurdle that he honestly believed would be even better. 27:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Like Eugene, I believe the memories from then on were well within a three-year statute of rotations. 27:13 [SPEAKER_01]: That was Deherin, did the statute of limitations borrow us from filing for lawsuit? 27:19 [SPEAKER_01]: If we had won that hearing, then we would have gone to the trial, where we could have brought in witnesses, and like my matters from the doctors would go then, all kind of evidence would have come in, but they were successful in stopping us at the hearing, which is a preliminary matter before a trial, and you have to settle all of those matters before it's actually put to trial. 27:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 27:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd like to say, I had no idea of that. 27:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I know it sounds really, but I was so lost in all of this. 27:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I was basically if people were trust and said, okay, we're going to move now over. 28:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I move now over. 28:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually thought it was a trail. 28:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Thought. 28:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It was so intense. 28:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It was so overwhelming. 28:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It was so I would come out of those depositions three different days. 28:12 [SPEAKER_01]: We would stand in the parking lot. 28:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Mike would hold me up. 28:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Why cry? 28:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'd never been talked to like that. 28:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I had never been doubted like that. 28:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I had never found myself not being able to give clear explanation. 28:26 [SPEAKER_01]: There was like I said, 28:29 [SPEAKER_01]: everything drops in. 28:30 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no timeline to it. 28:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And they kept picking at that. 28:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was already picking at it within myself. 28:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And so they were turning me into, and so I have to say that 28:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't understand that myself. 28:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And I've learned how to make sense out of that now, but I didn't necessarily. 28:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of people, yeah, a lot of people didn't understand, it's different. 28:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not easy. 28:57 [SPEAKER_01]: You're talking it. 28:58 [SPEAKER_01]: They follow a mention to the Smith. 29:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Years follow lawsuit and they answer with motion to the Smith and they miss the reasons why the case could be. 29:10 [SPEAKER_01]: But what I would follow along soon in a lead poisoning case where a child had lead poisoning that damaged him cognitively, and I would have evidence of that blood tests, what had you, the other side, would follow notion to the SNES and claim that there was not enough evidence to file such a case. 29:31 [SPEAKER_01]: where we would go and we would all argue the evidence we weren't in court as the trial we were adhering I would tell the judge why there was enough evidence to proceed to trial and the opposition would say basically I was born to say that legal terms and the battle lawyers back and forth but we had only succeeded in that statute of annotation issue 30:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Never. 30:01 [SPEAKER_01]: We got beat up. 30:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay. 30:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like make it. 30:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like push and shane out of the because I have so many questions. 30:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to ask a bit and because this is video he can't rearrange the chronology, but I want to go back to something that you both referred to just to clarify for everybody Paul McQ. 30:23 [SPEAKER_02]: was one of the leading proponents of something called false memory syndrome, and it went by FMS, but he was also a under contract at Hopkins, and was involved in the MK Ultra program. 30:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember Gene, you talked about that is pretty much a conflict of interest, but 30:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Could one of you explain the difference between false memory syndrome because that's been debunked just in the last couple of years and he won't talk to us. 31:00 [SPEAKER_02]: He's still living and repressed memory because repressed memory is that's in the diagnostic Bible for psychologists. 31:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And there are two very different things, but people got some very confused on social media. 31:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's what is it. 31:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It's decisive to identity disorder is what it's called now used to be. 31:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So there, and I, but I will go into great detail. 31:28 [SPEAKER_01]: But one of the things that I feel is false memory. 31:32 [SPEAKER_01]: would be this how I see it. 31:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to explain it from James. 31:36 [SPEAKER_01]: If I came forward and said, I remember this priest he did this and I just didn't listen. 31:40 [SPEAKER_01]: And if they could not have anyone else say that they ever knew anything like that, they could then stand behind that's the false name. 31:48 [SPEAKER_01]: But to have Tracy come forward, separate from away from a different year than and give 31:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Not to mention, another person, I find that that became for me the affirmation that cannot be in my mind, that we all have false memory, we all, I've gone to therapist, Teresa hasn't, they want to say it's the therapist who has made suggestions, Teresa has it's for me, she affirm that I. 32:26 [SPEAKER_01]: because I was my own worst detective. 32:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I had this child telling me all this stuff and I literally was a separation. 32:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was supported by the fact that I don't know that woman from the man in the moon. 32:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And she had this man doing things to her too. 32:46 [SPEAKER_01]: How? 32:46 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way that could be a false memory. 32:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And right, there's a different. 32:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And he really pushes that he doesn't deny people have had trauma. 32:56 [SPEAKER_02]: But his claim is that to deal with the trauma, you make things up. 33:03 [SPEAKER_02]: because you are trying to deal with the trauma rather than, as you said, now there's a diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder, but he's like a nobody now after being this leader in this whole false memory syndrome organization. 33:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Theresa, do you have any thoughts about him? 33:26 [SPEAKER_01]: We pressed memory did not pass the frially standard, which was an established standard for generally accepted occurrence. 33:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And I have a case I actually found in Maryland where the judged judge Reuving, and this was in Montgomery County, said that this associate of amnesia 33:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And the community is in research methods generally accepted in these fields and that it's it is now generally accepted and it's a real thing. 34:01 [SPEAKER_01]: They were able to prove a lot is on the post traumatic stress disorder of returning veterans from war and how they actually remain being in war being bogged at all and they saw it over and over again and it has been studied and it happens in the hip or campus of the brain. 34:20 [SPEAKER_01]: particularly from these horrible things. 34:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And then when they surface, it's relieving. 34:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I, that experience of all night wondering how in the hell I got dressed at Maskel's office. 34:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And you relive it. 34:35 [SPEAKER_01]: You actually re-live the touch, the feel, the smells, and it's proven now, where is the about false memory syndrome? 34:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It changed in the whole of the war. 34:46 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times they were saying that psychiatrists were hypnotizing Pete interjecting his thoughts. 34:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I was never hit never, didn't anyone ever injected my mind about what I was remembering, and I knew it to be true. 35:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And like, I know we're other people calling forward. 35:04 [SPEAKER_01]: At one point, Beverly Wallace told me there was 30. 35:07 [SPEAKER_01]: He overads signed a letter of support that they knew something while at mass schools. 35:14 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just that we had our day in court today. 35:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We would win. 35:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We could prove it. 35:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Could each of you talk about how the case concluded. 35:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And what each of you did afterwards? 35:25 [SPEAKER_01]: If it's okay, I'll start just to, if it, 35:28 [SPEAKER_01]: It ended where I'll know which quality it was in the trial. 35:31 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you call it, Trisa, if it's not a trial? 35:33 [SPEAKER_01]: They're hearing the motion to dismiss was OK. 35:37 [SPEAKER_01]: The motion to dismiss was granted. 35:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we went to the appeal after the appeals court said they were going to stay with what Maryland had decided two weeks after Mike's 35:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I thought that I was being that I had told secret and that if there be a God was angry, getting me back, we were in shock. 36:04 [SPEAKER_01]: This was never what we thought was going to happen. 36:07 [SPEAKER_01]: We really believed in all those. 36:09 [SPEAKER_01]: We believed in church. 36:11 [SPEAKER_01]: We believed in the courts. 36:14 [SPEAKER_01]: We believed in the law enforcement. 36:16 [SPEAKER_01]: The same as if everyone and then it got sound. 36:22 [SPEAKER_01]: But everything got quiet. 36:24 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like I was afraid to talk. 36:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I had already said all these things are now letting it just go I felt I had told the secret. 36:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I felt very guilty. 36:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I felt terrified. 36:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Now these people were out there He was out there didn't matter to me if they said he was an Ireland or I didn't care he was out there He was already here, but now he's out there 36:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And we will run into a solid motor round. 36:50 [SPEAKER_01]: We moved away from my extended family and any kind of community which I was already now, very much not a part of. 36:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I started, I continued to work on my inner work. 37:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I continued to raise my family. 37:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I started my health care practice. 37:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I liked the pair. 37:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I helped Mike during that time with a trend. 37:12 [SPEAKER_01]: peaceful trans to the next level. 37:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was a time of a lot of growth. 37:19 [SPEAKER_01]: but I was really in hiding. 37:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I felt that I'd done something wrong and that nobody was talking about it. 37:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I've no one knew. 37:30 [SPEAKER_01]: We had told all the stuff that we had told in these depositions. 37:34 [SPEAKER_01]: We had told all these lawyers and it was not out in public. 37:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So we were stuck with all this stuff now. 37:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was still remembering things. 37:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was still working with it. 37:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I just went into a solid, I stayed jamed out. 37:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I was downstairs, I couldn't believe it either. 37:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I was devastated to the point where I wouldn't let it go. 37:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just took it to the Supreme Court. 37:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I got a lawyer to follow written surgery to ask if the Supreme Court would hear it case. 38:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And even though my dad said in statute of invitations, it is a Don Vio, it's not doesn't have a chance. 38:12 [SPEAKER_01]: He supported me in that, and I think he did. 38:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And because he saw, I think I was having a nerves breakdown. 38:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And, of course, when that lost, I, my so-called law school, to understand what the hell happens, because at those notions, I just talked about the hearings, but I didn't understand all that, like I do now. 38:33 [SPEAKER_01]: But I had to go back and get my being angry first and social work. 38:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a long run. 38:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I just focused on my education and my kids. 38:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I think if I didn't have the kids, I wouldn't make it. 38:46 [SPEAKER_01]: But they get me a preference to hang in there. 38:50 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to take a minute and say, not a minute as much time as you want. 38:55 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to fast forward to some of the challenges that you both faced when the keepers was released. 39:01 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're not going to retell the movie because today again for our listeners and what and viewers watchers watchers is like a weird thing. 39:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Our viewers were talking more about legal battles and the battles that you both had with the institutions that betrayed you. 39:17 [SPEAKER_02]: So with the release of the keepers and everybody meeting you with your faces on the screen, how did each of you, what challenges appeared and how did you each deal with that? 39:34 [SPEAKER_02]: It wants to start. 39:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Theresa, you're this camera's on you. 39:38 [SPEAKER_02]: You want to keep talking? 39:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I was terrified about the key rooms. 39:43 [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, I didn't think it was going to be shown on Netflix when they interviewed me when Jess and Ryan interviewed me. 39:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I just thought it would be a document with public TV or something. 39:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And when I realized it was quite of the broad cancel networks and it was going to be a big deal, I was terrified. 40:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought I was going to come off as looking like a mental case, as I always thought I was nuts. 40:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I didn't think people would believe me. 40:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought here we go again. 40:11 [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to have everybody telling me you're crazy. 40:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And then some people said maybe there's going to be a target on you back. 40:18 [SPEAKER_01]: other people think we're attacking the religion. 40:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And I never met to tell anyone's faith. 40:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I respect everybody's belief systems. 40:28 [SPEAKER_01]: But I was terrified. 40:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Today, the day it came out, I actually had to get on my doctor and had to have a colonoscopy button because I had so many symptoms. 40:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I told 40:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It was horrible. 40:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It was, I couldn't even walk, I said I'm dying. 40:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And but I pleasantly surprised when it came out. 40:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And we got all that support. 40:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I was shocked. 40:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I was dead, which I stripped myself into an emergency. 40:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I was just about crying. 41:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It is stress. 41:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the part that is so sad about all this. 41:09 [SPEAKER_01]: When they don't understand what survivors continue to go through to talk about this is one of the hardest things to do. 41:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why a lot of people don't I think it's why it had such a major impact. 41:21 [SPEAKER_01]: because it wasn't just talked about, but it was talked about with integrity, respect, and with a focus of educating and informing versus sensationalizing and tantalizing. 41:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It was 41:44 [SPEAKER_01]: because this is a hard thing to talk about, but they need it to talk about some of what happened in order to understand the depths of the crime. 41:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So, it was a hard, I think for me, it was difficult to because I had out it myself as Jean-Harrison Wainer before they came low, and that in itself was already like, but I did that because I didn't want to become, I didn't want to talk to anybody, whether that was Tom 42:18 [SPEAKER_01]: anything, anyone because I needed to go to the police and tell them first everything that I had remembered from that point of the courts to now. 42:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a good person, I do my civic duty, and I've done it ever since I put my name on this. 42:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I felt very, I felt free and I felt terrified. 42:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I was free because I was talking about things and there were people who were in front of me that looked like they were really getting it. 42:50 [SPEAKER_01]: They were listening. 42:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I had hardly talked to anybody others in my close friends about any of what I had, 42:57 [SPEAKER_01]: thrown up all the tables in those depositions at the archdiocese tables or you'd never know by the way they all acted after was nothing. 43:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Silence grouped that we had shared such thick. 43:11 [SPEAKER_01]: This is horrific and if those people who are in charge, the big business behind church had records 43:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Most of those people around know that they were abusing children, the children of the parishioners, and then they stayed silent after we put ourselves through. 43:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have words because I am a good person. 43:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I was taught to be a good person. 43:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And a good person doesn't do that because we deserved 43:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Now that I get off my plate. 43:56 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's, this is what is doing this. 43:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's why we're doing it. 44:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It just, so I trace that the stress, to me, it was so hard to do what we were doing. 44:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And we did it, we were making no money. 44:12 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't make anything at all from this. 44:16 [SPEAKER_01]: We did it because we had a right for one to speak our truth to an audience that might actually listen. 44:27 [SPEAKER_01]: We also knew by this point because we weren't alone in being a survivor. 44:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And so if it was that hard for us to talk about it, and then there were other survivors who also were talking about it. 44:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like it was a snowball on that respect, but I was terrified. 44:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It probably took me a year. 44:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I got off the grid after the keepers came out. 44:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I went to my sister's whole weekend when it came out. 44:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I could only watch parts and sometimes parts are parts not at all. 45:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was terrified. 45:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I was also afraid people were going to start throwing things at me. 45:07 [SPEAKER_01]: People were going to start looking me up in order to call me names that I'm still was dealing with this feeling like they're going to say I'm lying. 45:17 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not an easy thing to do, and so about a year I would say before I started feeling grounded again and feeling affirmed to allow the affirmation to somewhat sink in is it took about a year, I'd say. 45:34 [SPEAKER_00]: This question can go to anyone who would like to answer it, but I'd like to hear how the urge dyes us of Baltimore reacted to the keepers. 45:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Trissel, let's you start there. 45:46 [SPEAKER_01]: They acted like it wasn't true and that they didn't hear about the abuse and thoroughly accepted hear about it and it was just a mirror of the same lives. 45:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Even with those kind of forward and talking about all this sort of stuff, 46:03 [SPEAKER_01]: and then about Charles's a revolution in the capers. 46:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And he had no reason to lie about what happened to you. 46:11 [SPEAKER_01]: None of us. 46:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Jeanne said, we've got absolutely no morning out of this. 46:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And the orange dice is the same all. 46:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We support the victims. 46:19 [SPEAKER_01]: We visit that and it's all a bunch of cool. 46:23 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't. 46:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Not care. 46:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And I can't be convinced that they care. 46:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Do we remember what the orange dice, how the orange dice is? 46:32 [SPEAKER_02]: answered the questions at the end of the series. 46:35 [SPEAKER_02]: They wouldn't talk. 46:36 [SPEAKER_02]: They wouldn't have be interviewed, but Ryan sent them questions. 46:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 46:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And they do remember that. 46:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you talk about that? 46:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember that? 46:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I just know that I was, because they would say, see answer 46:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it was like it was talk about flipping. 46:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I have Catholic friends. 46:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not talking about. 47:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not talking about participators within a safe. 47:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 47:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking about these are the people who were the leaders of our faith. 47:09 [SPEAKER_01]: These are the people who taught us not to lie. 47:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It's taught us what meant to tell the truth. 47:14 [SPEAKER_01]: taught us how to help the person who was down. 47:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And the responses to me were, as if we did not matter, they're low suit or whatever we're going at the hearing had already happened. 47:32 [SPEAKER_01]: They, we couldn't do anything. 47:35 [SPEAKER_01]: We were not going to be able to sue them. 47:37 [SPEAKER_01]: They'd need it to, I would say gross and balls, but I won't say that. 47:49 [SPEAKER_01]: you just did say to do they need it reconciliation so that meant that they had to admit their part in this and all they needed to do again we couldn't do it we couldn't they needed to speak up they needed to get the courage 48:07 [SPEAKER_01]: to speak just like they got threatened and ended up bringing the statute limitation age up during that time because it was like, oh my god, they're filling this. 48:19 [SPEAKER_01]: What's going to happen? 48:20 [SPEAKER_01]: It took pressure. 48:21 [SPEAKER_01]: We were just 48:24 [SPEAKER_01]: asking for honest response. 48:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was angry. 48:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I still am. 48:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I still feel very much that we have not been treated with the same integrity and respect that rhyme, white, and Jessica Hardgraze and John Benham 48:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we hear not been treated with that kind of respect? 48:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Do we either remember what happened to Kio when the keepers came out, the letters that went home, and what the girls were told? 49:05 [SPEAKER_01]: told. 49:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you recall that story? 49:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember the letters. 49:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember the content of the letters. 49:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I was still celebrating the conception that the Keepers died there and told. 49:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they said it's about people who came here to the families of Kio. 49:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And of course there was 49:25 [SPEAKER_02]: talked began that year about closing the school, big surprise, but the girls were told, and I've talked to a few of them there, young, but they were told, at their moms, or it would be our daughters, they were told not to discuss this with anybody, especially the 49:55 [SPEAKER_02]: What's his glory, our archbishop, and the priests were required to read the letter at every mass after the keepers came out with the archdiocese perspective on it. 50:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see if I can find a copy of it and Shane can post it with this, but a lot of priests, there are a lot of good priests in this world. 50:17 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of them who emphasized and supported what you were doing refused to read that letter. 50:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And instead, they set up really productive discussion groups to talk about what can we do to help and how can we keep this from happening. 50:33 [SPEAKER_02]: So there are some renegade parishes out there that we have to give kudos to, but the archdiocese really thought that they were just going to squash it. 50:42 [SPEAKER_02]: they know that they are going to happen now that they've seen who they're dealing with. 50:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I have, he once, I'm going to need him anonymous because I didn't ask permission, but a gentleman was a part of a board for a, one of the castlet, we're going to say, I'm going to say what. 50:59 [SPEAKER_01]: and they came in and there was a priest visiting and the priest proceeded to imply that there were the decopers there were lies and this gentleman stood up and said you need to stop talking because I know that family and they're not liars and the priest stopped talking 51:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Did either of you meet with Lori, I was offered a meeting and I told them, I learned little dead and she told him off. 51:35 [SPEAKER_02]: She said, I think it's done. 51:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the only good thing about it was his dog was there and she said she told him off. 51:41 [SPEAKER_02]: So good for her murder and little everybody. 51:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I had, I felt it was empty, just empty and I can't even believe that this man is what even 51:58 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the league. 52:00 [SPEAKER_02]: He's the guy. 52:01 [SPEAKER_02]: What is guy? 52:01 [SPEAKER_02]: This episode is going to be all over the world and we're going to say copies just specific people. 52:07 [SPEAKER_02]: So if either of you would like to say something directly to Archbishop Lori, who is still the Archbishop of Baltimore, here's your opportunity. 52:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, you should resign. 52:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Lori, you should resign. 52:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't believe, because I've lost all trust in anything that you say. 52:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And I also feel that what has opened up for me is the realization that until you bring women into your community of priests. 52:47 [SPEAKER_01]: You always have this dysfunctional situation because there is a balance that needs to happen. 52:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Has nothing to do with who's abusing who, but you were all balanced and decisions are being made and the power is being held by just men. 53:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And when you have that, you have the potential of all kinds of health habits. 53:16 [SPEAKER_01]: making a move and bringing women into the healthy balance of the hierarchies here in Maryland. 54:03 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
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