0:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey guys, welcome back to Fowl Play with Gemma and Shane. 0:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Gemma has been over a year I believe since you and I have done a podcast together. 0:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I know I'm so excited and Shane and I are actually one of them, so we can see each other and wave and make faces and stuff, but you guys are probably just going to hear the audio. 0:36 [SPEAKER_03]: So we, yeah, hi everybody, so we decided that we're going to get back together again. 0:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Shane is actually in his home in Indiana and I've been my new home in the state of three cell phones. 0:49 [SPEAKER_03]: So I moved away from Maryland to many people who go out and live. 0:53 [SPEAKER_03]: So now I'm living in the woods on a river and I'm totally happy about that. 0:58 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's really good to be back with Shane and tonight we're going to talk about Shane. 1:05 [SPEAKER_00]: The archdiocese of Baltimore's bankruptcy. 1:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. 1:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and people are probably wondering if they're not up to date. 1:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Why is the archdiocese of Baltimore filing bankruptcy? 1:18 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to give you guys a little bit of a timeline. 1:21 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to try and make it simple because that's the best way I understand it. 1:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not left-brained. 1:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Abby's the left-brained one. 1:29 [SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to go back five years actually when the attorney general of Maryland made an announcement and oppressed release that they were going to begin an investigation. 1:42 [SPEAKER_03]: and to clergy abuse in the archdiocese of Baltimore, clergy abuse for those of you that might not be Catholic, is praise non-brothers, any religious person in the Catholic church. 1:58 [SPEAKER_03]: So with that said, I learned that at the Archdiocese of Baltimore was not the whole state of Maryland. 2:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Do as a teacher I should have known that. 2:08 [SPEAKER_03]: So the center of the state is the Archdiocese of Baltimore, the western part of the state. 2:14 [SPEAKER_03]: going west and down towards Washington is the archdiocese of Washington and the eastern shore where I live now is the archdiocese of Wilmington. 2:26 [SPEAKER_03]: So the archdiocese of Wilmington, which is in Delaware, actually is responsible for all the Catholic parishes on the eastern shore down 2:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So the investigation began and the attorney general gave everybody information about how to report abuse and the process was that if somebody had been abused or knew of an abuse or they would contact the criminal investigator at the attorney general's office as name was Richard Wolfe we came to know and love that name. 3:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And he was the guy that everybody would report to, so for me and for Shane as well, a lot of people didn't know what to do, and they would say like, well, I was a beauty, what do I do? 3:20 [SPEAKER_03]: So I was able to coordinate some of those calls with Richard. 3:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes people wanted me to stay in an email loop with them, but anyway, we made sure that if they wanted 3:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And we kept wondering when the investigation would be over, we told it would be soon. 3:41 [SPEAKER_03]: So the investigation actually went on for four years. 3:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Now to compare Pennsylvania, which was huge, and Josh Shapiro, he was the attorney general, right? 3:54 [SPEAKER_03]: That went up two years. 3:56 [SPEAKER_03]: So this was twice as long. 3:58 [SPEAKER_03]: And we learned at the end of last summer, 4:04 [SPEAKER_03]: around this time that the report that the investigation was coming to an end. 4:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So again, we wait, we wait, we wait. 4:13 [SPEAKER_03]: We find out in November that the investigation is finished. 4:18 [SPEAKER_03]: So now we wait, we wait, we wait. 4:20 [SPEAKER_03]: When's it going to come out? 4:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And they're like, well, how's to go through this big, long process and different people need to see it, so at the same time, but separate from that legislation was brought to the Maryland legislature for the child victims act, it used to be called the Hidden Predator Act. 4:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And the gentleman, the legislator, who brought that to the house and to the Senate, CT Wilson, he had been fighting for the rest for years. 5:00 [SPEAKER_03]: He was abused as a child himself. 5:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Said this was very important to him every year before this, it either didn't happen because of COVID or it got through the Senate but didn't make it through the house. 5:15 [SPEAKER_03]: So this year, a lot of us, and I was so happy that I was able to testify this time. 5:21 [SPEAKER_03]: I had some friends in Baltimore that made sure I had transportation up there. 5:27 [SPEAKER_03]: So I got to testify. 5:29 [SPEAKER_03]: And this year, the Child Victims Act, you'll see CVA as the acronym for it. 5:38 [SPEAKER_03]: It was passed. 5:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, what the child victims act does is it totally eliminates the statute of limitations, and sometimes you might see that written as S-O-L. 5:52 [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't mean the sun. 5:54 [SPEAKER_03]: It means the statute of limitations. 5:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And that means that there's no limit on 6:00 [SPEAKER_03]: when or how far back somebody can report abuse. 6:04 [SPEAKER_03]: So, for example, if somebody was abused when they were 10 years old and they're now 95, they can still get a civil suit for that abuse. 6:17 [SPEAKER_03]: If their abusers dead, they can follow civil suit against the institution. 6:23 [SPEAKER_03]: for whom the abuse are worked. 6:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 6:26 [SPEAKER_03]: So this was a huge deal when it passed. 6:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody was excited. 6:30 [SPEAKER_03]: And then we find out that it will go into effect October 1st, which was 7 days ago. 6:41 [SPEAKER_03]: So, October 1st, everybody was anxiously awaiting the passage. 6:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Meanwhile, folks were finding attorneys, finding resources, therapists, support system, is very, very busy year. 6:57 [SPEAKER_03]: because not only did the attorney generals reach work come out in April, which exposes a lot of the predators and others, but folks needed to be ready to fall their suit. 7:11 [SPEAKER_03]: So right now, two days before the CVA, the Child Victim's Act was enacted and put into practice, the archdiocese of Baltimore, big surprise, filed for bankruptcy. 7:31 [SPEAKER_03]: So what I've just shared with you is leading up to where we are right now, 7:37 [SPEAKER_03]: And I frankly, as Shane to do this, like, bankruptcy for dummies, mostly because I'm here with him. 7:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And I have to understand what he's saying. 7:48 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think we all have a lot of questions about it. 7:51 [SPEAKER_03]: So write down your questions. 7:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And Shane and I are going to be doing a bunch of podcasts together. 7:57 [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to come through all the different kinds of things. 8:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to turn it back to Shane because he's going to pick it up there, all I can tell you is that the attorneys were ready for this, they told their clients to be ready, but now we have to see what it means, what does bankruptcy mean and what's the road look like going forward versus for survivors so Shane take it away. 8:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Jim and you did a really good job going through that and you did an excellent job talking about the attorney general report. 8:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really excited to go over that in a future episode because I know that reading through it and everything they did was just a huge headache and hurtful and I'm really excited and I'm looking forward to talking about that more. 8:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, as you mentioned, we're going to focus in this episode about the bankruptcy that the Archdiocese has done in a previous episode that we've covered in the series that you and I have been working on for years now for sister Kathy series is what we've called it. 9:05 [SPEAKER_00]: In a previous episode, I want to mention that we had Sean Kane on, he had agreed to let me interview him, and in a previous email, Sean had gotten a call up in a little bit of an email going back and forth with the archdiocese of Baltimore officials. 9:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And the email chain had been released, and that was the first time the public had gotten word of them looking into the possibility of them filing bankruptcy. 9:34 [SPEAKER_00]: This was before them announcing it here recently. 9:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I believe it may have been about a month ago. 9:39 [SPEAKER_00]: He was giving them advice on when they should announce it specifically. 9:43 [SPEAKER_00]: The reason they were discussing it was because Sean was explaining to them that they should wait to announce it until right before the law takes into effect. 9:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Because the church was trying to do a fundraiser and they were afraid that when they announced the bankruptcy and how that will be perceived that it would impact people donating and they didn't want that to happen. 10:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why they waited until right before the law went into effect to make sure they could make the most money from those donations. 10:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Shane, was that an email that we would have access to? 10:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Cause I don't remember seeing it. 10:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure. 10:26 [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe one more finish tonight. 10:28 [SPEAKER_03]: You can post it because I know everybody wants to see what Sean Kane has to say, right? 10:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It was an internal email that Sean Kane had with some officials. 10:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And I believe it was the Baltimore sun. 10:38 [SPEAKER_00]: They're the ones that had obtained it and released it. 10:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll post a link along with the episode and I'll include it in the show notes as well. 10:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But I thought that was really interesting that one of the things that they took into account was how much money that people would not donate. 10:55 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and I just thought that was very interesting and something that we should all take into account as we continue this discussion. 11:02 [SPEAKER_00]: But as Jim mentioned, the archdiocese of Baltimore did file for bankruptcy, specifically they filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. 11:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, we all know that this was due to the number of lawsuits that's going to be coming from the abuse that has been going on within the church. 11:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, you're probably wondering, what is the difference between Chapter 7 and Chapter 11 bankruptcy? 11:26 [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be what everyone's going to be wondering. 11:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And how will that impact the church? 11:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I also want to mention really quickly that, a little history lesson, there have been 30 other Catholic diocese currently in the U.S. that have previously filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy because of this child abuse. 11:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's very important for us to remember going forward that this has happened 30 other times in the U.S. specifically. 11:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So can you imagine like how many children this is impacting and that each time you know this isn't just happening in Maryland and all those other states all those survivors this is happening to them as well So I think that's important for not only our listeners to know that these survivors are experiencing this but they're experiencing this and other states as well 12:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So specifically, chapter 11, when a business looks to file chapter 11 bankruptcy, they're looking to reorganize their business. 12:29 [SPEAKER_00]: and how that's different from a chapter seven bankruptcy is that chapter seven will look to completely liquidate and oftentimes end of the business. 12:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So basically you're looking at chapter seven means the business is no longer profitable. 12:46 [SPEAKER_00]: They owed people too much money. 12:48 [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to 12:55 [SPEAKER_00]: They'd be letting go of all of the people that work for them. 12:58 [SPEAKER_00]: They'd be shutting operations, and then they would be dividing all of the money between all of the people they are money to. 13:06 [SPEAKER_00]: That's how a chapter seven bankruptcy works. 13:10 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not what's happening in this case. 13:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Chapter 11 looks to reorganize the business. 13:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And so what they're looking at doing is how can they reorganize the archdiocese in order to basically settle with these survivors? 13:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And that sounds a little simple and that's, you know, just the basic terms of what's happening. 13:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So, Gemma, because of that simple explanation, what question do you have for me? 13:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 13:42 [SPEAKER_03]: So the business is the church. 13:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 13:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And so isn't that what we've learned. 13:48 [SPEAKER_03]: The business is the church. 13:51 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a business. 13:52 [SPEAKER_03]: A big business. 13:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big business. 13:54 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not a nonprofit. 13:56 [SPEAKER_03]: That's for sure. 13:57 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't agree like that. 13:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Do they? 13:58 [SPEAKER_03]: They don't. 14:00 [SPEAKER_03]: So guess what I'm hearing you say is that by they're not filing chapter seven if they did, then the church would just disappear in Baltimore, 14:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody would just, okay, most likely. 14:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 14:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 14:16 [SPEAKER_03]: But this way, they're going to figure out a way where I think they already thought it had many decades ago about how to protect their assets by putting them, but the big company putting the assets in like smaller, quote companies like Parisians and 14:38 [SPEAKER_03]: organizations so that it's kind of spread out. 14:44 [SPEAKER_03]: And if somebody sees the archdiocese, the archdiocese doesn't literally have that money available to them because they've already put it, let's say they put it in parish A, Saint Mary's or Saint chain, Saint 15:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so if we think of Archbishop Kio high school, if we think of that one high school, what the archdiocese has done over all of these years is each one of their real estate holdings, so all of the schools, buildings, charities, any property they own, all of those entities. 15:31 [SPEAKER_00]: they are all now separate businesses that they have set up. 15:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Now what they have done is although they have set them up all separate, they are the ones that are incomplete control of them. 15:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So they've set up their own business. 15:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So like for example, if Archbishop Kia was still standing the high school, they would set up their own business for it, an LLC or whatever type of business, 16:00 [SPEAKER_00]: They would have the archdiocese of Baltimore being basically the board of the entire entity that is in charge of this business. 16:10 [SPEAKER_00]: and how that works is now Archbishop Key of High School now will operate as its own little bubble separate from the Archdiocese of Baltimore and all of their other real estate holdings and if you were to try to sue the Archdiocese or to sue that school or any of the other schools 16:32 [SPEAKER_00]: You would have a very hard time to try to link them all together. 16:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And then also, if you sue the archdiocese of Baltimore, they do not have to claim that they own that high school or any of the other real estate holdings because they're all separate businesses and separate real estates. 16:53 [SPEAKER_00]: life can get overwhelming, and talking to someone can make all the difference. 16:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help, 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that can also be said with, you know, if they have a really nice church that has a bunch of really nice artwork, if that church is set up as its own business, the archdiocese doesn't have to consider that church being inside of their real estate holdings of the actual archdiocese even though they're the ones that run the business. 18:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You see what I'm saying? 18:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So over time, they've set this system up almost expecting that sometimes they may get hit with a huge lawsuit, which is if you've been listening or if you've been following along, you'll know that in all of this time when survivors and CT Wilson have been trying to pass this law to eliminate the statute of limitations. 18:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So that survivors can sue their abusers. 18:50 [SPEAKER_00]: The one person or the one entity who has always been there to fight the law is who. 18:58 [SPEAKER_00]: the archdiocese of Baltimore. 19:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So all of this way, they are the one person standing up trying to prevent it from happening, but they're also doing their work trying to put all of these little bubbles in place, just in case of the law falls. 19:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And so through all this process, this huge machine, this huge business that they've built. 19:19 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the oldest archdiocese. 19:22 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the very first one, the very proud of it. 19:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So they have a lot of resources, a lot of real estate, a lot of money. 19:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're trying to protect what they have. 19:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Just like when Sean King's email went out, you can tell they're trying to protect what they have. 19:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So they can say thoughts and prayers all day long, but they're always trying to protect what they have. 19:43 [SPEAKER_00]: and survivors be damned is basically what we see and what we hear and I believe that's how survivors are feeling when all of their action continually shows everyone this. 19:57 [SPEAKER_03]: So even there, we're on the right side, the just side, the people on the other side have built 20:13 [SPEAKER_03]: what they should be given freely. 20:18 [SPEAKER_03]: What does an LLC, what does that mean, Shane? 20:22 [SPEAKER_00]: LLC is a limited liability company. 20:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that was actually created many years ago for mostly small businesses. 20:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So basically, if you think of, for example, like a small farmer, or maybe Jima, let's say you like to paint pottery, you want to open up your own little pottery store, and you want to invite people in to paint pottery, while you could open up a little LLC, and people could come in and buy pottery. 20:48 [SPEAKER_00]: The perk of having an LLC is if someone came in and bought your pottery, but they didn't like it, or they found it offensive, or whatever the case may be, they ended up trying to sue you, maybe they ordered something, they thought it was something, and you told them it was green and it was blue, whatever the reason might be, they sued you. 21:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they could only sue that pottery business. 21:14 [SPEAKER_00]: They could not sue you and try to take your home or your car, or any of your other personal property. 21:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not related to your pottery business. 21:24 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what limited liability meant. 21:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was meant for these small businesses. 21:31 [SPEAKER_02]: right. 21:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what the church has tried to use to set up these small bubbles. 21:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So I know at one point in time, Jim, you made a comment, because when they sold archbishop Kia high school, they sold it to what company was that? 21:45 [SPEAKER_03]: They sold it to PepsiCo a lot. 21:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 21:48 [SPEAKER_03]: We're the building down. 21:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we know why they tore down, but they tore the building down. 21:54 [SPEAKER_03]: And they sold the property for 21:59 [SPEAKER_03]: And I forget how many acres it is. 22:01 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's not like hundreds of acres, but I guess everybody wants to know, well, there's $18 million if the churches paid out 13 million in settlements why can't they take the money from that school and give the whole thing to survivors? 22:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, at the beginning, they could have, but it went into one of their little businesses. 22:24 [SPEAKER_03]: It's protected right where it spread out somewhere, 22:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it would be really hard to probably find out where that money went to first of all. 22:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It could be still held within a small business fund of some kind that's still separate from the fund that they, you know, that that is withheld within the archdiocese. 22:45 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that we also have to consider here, 22:49 [SPEAKER_00]: is that in their filing, when the archdiocese filed for bankruptcy, they listed their assets to be as low as $100 million. 23:02 [SPEAKER_00]: could be up to $500 million. 23:04 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a huge wide open margin, you know, very weird. 23:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But whatever, another weird thing that I found when they filed for their bankruptcy is Lori, who we will love to name. 23:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Lori, who is the archbishop. 23:22 [SPEAKER_00]: He said in the filing that they believe that they will have between 1,000 to 6,000 creditors that will file to try to come after them. 23:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, Jim, about how many people were named in the report? 23:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, by creditors, you mean survivors of abuse, right? 23:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's what I mean. 23:43 [SPEAKER_03]: He was looking to sue the archdiocese. 23:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That is correct. 23:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That's how many that they're expecting to pay out. 23:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 23:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 23:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the attorney general's report 23:52 [SPEAKER_03]: covered about 160 clergy members from rounding it up and 600 minors, but we know that's the tip of the iceberg because just since the report was finished in November, but it wasn't released until April. 24:12 [SPEAKER_03]: And it wasn't released until last week with reductions that the newspapers had already discovered. 24:21 [SPEAKER_03]: The newspapers, the banner and the suntapers had already determined from the information surrounding what was in the narrative, who the church leaders were, ABCD and E. And who the unnamed clergy members 24:41 [SPEAKER_03]: would be like in her hundreds, old who abused a child 80 years ago, so the newspaper figure all that out. 24:49 [SPEAKER_03]: But to name, to say, not name, but have 600 children or 600 people came forward. 24:55 [SPEAKER_03]: That was just in the archdiocese of Baltimore. 24:58 [SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't count. 24:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, maintain a Washington, and that is only the people who reported 25:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And we're documented in the report. 25:09 [SPEAKER_03]: So just since April, I personally know of one law firm is representing hundreds of survivors of clergy abuse. 25:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's probably very similar all over the state. 25:24 [SPEAKER_03]: And I guess surrounding states, if it happened in a neighboring state, but I guess what irritates me the most, and maybe, I don't know, maybe I'm missing something. 25:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Is there any defense in place for the good guys? 25:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Is there any sitting? 25:42 [SPEAKER_03]: that you know of that we can do either as a group, as individuals, or that attorneys can do to turn this around, to not allow it to go through. 25:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And is that what a bank rupture work is for? 25:58 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a good question. 26:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Before I answer that, I want to make a comment. 26:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So you had mentioned that there were about 600 names mentioned in the report. 26:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, clergy, about 160. 26:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 26:11 [SPEAKER_03]: They don't name any of the, any of the survivors. 26:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 26:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But they name about 600 survivors. 26:17 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's a country. 26:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So one of the questions that I would like to just bring up to keep on everyone's mind is, 26:25 [SPEAKER_00]: If there are 600 survivors of the archdiocese of Baltimore that we are aware of at least in the report, something that to keep in mind of is a low-rebelief. 26:35 [SPEAKER_00]: There are between 1,000 and 6,000. 26:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's also something else to keep in mind is when a survivor tries to file their lawsuit, whether it be through this bankruptcy proceeding or a normal lawsuit. 26:51 [SPEAKER_00]: that does not mean that they do not have a burden of proof that does not mean that just because you file that doesn't mean that you're going to immediately get in on it. 27:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So if anyone has that thought, let's dispel that right now, the archdiocese we know will fight them to the end. 27:08 [SPEAKER_00]: They have always been we have to have some type of validation. 27:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So for Lori to believe that there will be 1,000 to 27:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that is something that we should just note, that there could be up to 6,000 people, so I think that something that we should note, another thing that I think is important is just as a reference, in New York State, the diocese there, and specifically this is Rockfield Center, they have paid over $90 million in legal fees to do this process. 27:47 [SPEAKER_00]: over three years. 27:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So just for them to go through this process, it's not a cheap thing to do. 27:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So when Lori or anyone from the Archdiocese tries to use the argument, we're trying to do this for the better of the survivor to try to get them the most money and still survive. 28:07 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a crockable because if that was their main goal, they could have two options. 28:13 [SPEAKER_00]: The first 28:17 [SPEAKER_00]: They could allow survivors to come up and do a class action against them. 28:21 [SPEAKER_00]: The second is to try to do a mass settlement, that way they don't have to pay a huge amount of law fees and a huge amount of court fees. 28:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're going to be paying at least tens of millions of dollars just in court and legal fees alone just to go through this process. 28:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not going to be a cheap process like how they are trying to make it appear to be. 28:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just want to bring in some actual facts into that. 28:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Shane, do you have any idea you mentioned before that you said you noted that there were 30 other diocese in the country that have been through this has anybody been able, I hate to say the word, but like outsmart the diocese that they're sewing and to actually get remediation for the survivors. 29:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that any of them were able to get the archdiocese in that area out of bankruptcy. 29:19 [SPEAKER_00]: If that's what you're asking, to prevent them from going through the bankruptcy. 29:24 [SPEAKER_00]: The unfortunate thing is is in those scenarios, it seems like they were allowed to do it. 29:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Now there are state specific requirements and there are federal requirements for bankruptcies. 29:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Maryland could have its own rules. 29:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I do know that there were some lawsuits that were brought against specific schools here recently, where they tried to go after specific schools where survivors were abused at, in addition to the archdiocese. 29:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And in those lawsuits, currently, the judges and the lawsuits have denied them saying that because the archdiocese is in charge of the business and they are in bankruptcy, they cannot sue that business. 30:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So that business is protected. 30:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I believe, and again, I'm not an attorney, but I believe they're able to appeal that decision and they probably will. 30:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm assuming the other lawyers will try to go after individual schools as well. 30:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But in this specific case, of course, this were very early in this. 30:35 [SPEAKER_00]: That specific case I believe was just two days ago. 30:38 [SPEAKER_00]: but that is what the archdiocese wanted to happen. 30:42 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why they've put all of their entities into separate bubbles. 30:46 [SPEAKER_00]: All of their real estate is held within these separate bubbles, because they're hoping that they can get through this without having to touch all of their assets separately. 30:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, so I have a whole bunch of questions. 31:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I hope they're the same ones our listeners are wondering about. 31:03 [SPEAKER_03]: The first one is, was there any benefit to the archdiocese doing this two days before the child victims act was put into action? 31:16 [SPEAKER_03]: did they gain anything from that? 31:18 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm acting like you're the expert on this, but I'm not turning on that. 31:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I think they were just trying to beat the law before anyone could actually sue them. 31:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, I think that was the case. 31:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that they waited to the last minute as I mentioned because of Sean Kane's email that was released between him and the Archdiocese of Baltimore, 31:38 [SPEAKER_00]: The reason they were going to wait until the last minute to file bankruptcy was because they wanted to make sure it didn't hurt their donations until the last minute because they knew that it would look bad on them. 31:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what their email chains had mentioned that they knew that it would look bad on them and they wanted to prevent that for as long as they could. 31:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, here's my next question. 32:01 [SPEAKER_03]: What about survivors who are showing 32:06 [SPEAKER_03]: non-catholic institutions. 32:09 [SPEAKER_03]: For example, there are the Boy Scouts had a default bankruptcy to know. 32:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I saw a documentary, Scouts on her this week, that was an amazing story. 32:21 [SPEAKER_03]: But anyway, what if they are suing a public school, and I know they are, can that public school 32:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's not that many, but I do not have the Baltimore County Public School, Baltimore City Public School, the Hickey School, which was a school for juvenile delinquents, and a lot of abuse happened there. 32:48 [SPEAKER_03]: That school was big things sued. 32:51 [SPEAKER_03]: So, which you just perspective are thought to in those situations? 32:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 32:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So our preference, all this, Sam, not an attorney. 33:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, what we'll say that my guess would be that if they think that they will be held liable, they'll just file for bankruptcy, probably chapter 11, that way they can continue operating. 33:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Then they during that chapter 11 process, what ends up happening is there's an automatic stay on those lawsuits, which means there is a pause 33:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Once that happens, once there's a pause, there's a period of time that, and this is what's going to happen here in our cases, well, for the archdiocese. 33:36 [SPEAKER_00]: There's going to be a pause, and there will be a review of assets that the bankruptcy court will be performing. 33:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is when the archdiocese of Baltimore will have to go through all of its assets. 33:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, this is going to be a weird scenario because the archdiocese of Baltimore is going to argue that they do not have to claim all of these separate real estate holdings and survivors are going to argue, you know, they are going to be called their creditors because they're going to owe them money. 34:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So, the survivors are going to argue through their attorneys that they should have to claim that because they run it, you know, and a lot of them were hurt or abused in those buildings. 34:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So, that it's going to be their argument, and it's going to be up to the court to decide ultimately how it goes. 34:36 [SPEAKER_00]: what buildings or if any can be included in the assets of the archdiocese. 34:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Once that's done, 34:45 [SPEAKER_00]: and during that process, the court will set a certain time frame of when lawsuits can come in against the archdiocese to be included in the bankruptcy. 34:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to say if you are wanting to be included in the lawsuit, you have to file it within this period of time. 35:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll make up a time frame. 35:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say it is a month. 35:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea how long it is. 35:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm making that 35:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's 90. 35:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that might be red, but yeah, I think so we'll go with 90 then. 35:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So the court will come up with a date and they will give an end date. 35:27 [SPEAKER_00]: After that end date, no more people can claim against the archdiocese for prior abuse. 35:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So what that means, ultimately, is all of those years that the archdiocese has been fighting against this law, the Child's Victim Act, trying to prevent the statute of limitations from going into effect. 35:52 [SPEAKER_00]: This bankruptcy that they're doing will have that effect on them because after that 90 days, 36:01 [SPEAKER_00]: no more previous lawsuits can be filed against them. 36:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So what we know of is survivors, like we have to give them the ability to come forward on their own time. 36:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Because not only do they have to come forward to themselves and their family, 36:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But to file a lawsuit like this and be a part of it, they have to come forward to the world, to the archdiocese, and Gemma, you have told me before that you have been there with survivors in the process and in the room when they've had to deal with the archdiocese, why don't you mention how that process goes and what that's like? 36:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So people can have an understanding. 36:40 [SPEAKER_03]: And well, I do a lot of advocacy works for survivors. 36:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think they think I'm like Dr. Lawyer Indian Tree from none of those. 36:50 [SPEAKER_03]: But I do help a lot of good connections and I can help them understand how to make a report a police report or report to the Attorney General and I can facilitate that with them. 37:01 [SPEAKER_03]: And I've actually done it with them like physically and by zoom with Richard Wolf or by phone because they're terrified and for a lot of them. 37:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Richard and I might be the only people that know what happened to them. 37:15 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was going to say this later, but if you are a survivor and you're listening to this, and you have not shared this with somebody in your family or somebody you trust, please do it tonight or tomorrow. 37:29 [SPEAKER_03]: You cannot go through this by yourself because it's going to be a long road. 37:38 [SPEAKER_03]: So don't back down, don't back down. 37:41 [SPEAKER_03]: We're all there with you and we're one the right side of justice. 37:46 [SPEAKER_03]: But we may not get exactly what you wanted, but you are going to get some justice, and you are going to get a settlement. 37:53 [SPEAKER_03]: The settlements that I attended were with survivors of Joseph Maskel. 38:01 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was a scripted circus. 38:04 [SPEAKER_03]: The judge was a retired judge who was very objective, but the archdiocesan attorney 38:16 [SPEAKER_03]: facing the client. 38:18 [SPEAKER_03]: I set one side of the client, the client's attorney said, I don't the other side. 38:23 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was like they were talking heads. 38:26 [SPEAKER_03]: And the child victims advocate sits between the archdiocesan attorneys opposite the client. 38:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I was appalled. 38:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And when the client 38:44 [SPEAKER_03]: They said, this is highly unusual. 38:47 [SPEAKER_03]: They didn't want me there as a judge said, it's fine, he knew me. 38:50 [SPEAKER_03]: And the client just wanted to know once the attorney got paid which she had enough to pay her bills. 38:59 [SPEAKER_03]: And we did the math and we figured that out. 39:02 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not easy. 39:03 [SPEAKER_03]: And with that said, unfortunately, because now the church has felt bankruptcy, even the Kio and the mascal clients, there are, I think there are 25 who received settlements about five years ago, and were underdress and felt like they were being sort of in a band position. 39:30 [SPEAKER_03]: They can't get those reverse now. 39:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And I do know Teresa Langehaster was brave enough to say she's going to try and get those reversed. 39:39 [SPEAKER_03]: But now with this bankrupt issue, that's not going to happen because that would mean those survivors could come back and ask for more money. 39:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, they're going to get the door slammed in their face. 39:51 [SPEAKER_03]: They biggest somehow that any of the mass 39:58 [SPEAKER_03]: and the attorneys get a third of that. 40:01 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's not an easy process, but people like Shane and I are here for you. 40:07 [SPEAKER_03]: We don't let what else to do except tell you that we support you. 40:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And if you need to talk to somebody, 40:14 [SPEAKER_03]: You can message us and we will try and find you a support system, but I'm saying that is the amount is to important thing right now because you're going to go through a whole lot of different emotions going to be scary, it's going to be hopeful it's going to be this is bullshit, this is going to be the church is going to be all of that and you're right just in feeling that way. 40:36 [SPEAKER_03]: But I talked to so many of you, and I know how painful this is, and then after what you did, you went public, you gave your name, you stood, you showed your face everywhere, and now you're getting slapped. 40:51 [SPEAKER_03]: And do you think Lloria will even agree to come on this program with Officer to talk to me personally or to Shane personally? 40:57 [SPEAKER_03]: No, the man is a coward, the man needs to resign. 41:03 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, and again, remember there's a big difference between religion and faith. 41:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Your faith is what you believe in, whether it's the Son and the Menumen, or Jesus Christ, or Yahweh, or whatever, it's not the same as organized religion. 41:21 [SPEAKER_03]: What we're upset with is the organized Catholic Church because it's a big business. 41:26 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's they're out to make money. 41:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And they're making a lot of money. 41:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I guess Shane is there any way, it's almost like the Vatican is the Supreme Court of the Church. 41:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know if there's any way for folks to like go beyond the art? 41:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I assist in appeal to the Vatican or is it going to run into the same thing? 41:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what's funny is I feel like the Vatican has done something similar to what the Archdiocese has done, where the Vatican operates as such a huge business that they have set all of these separate businesses called Archdiocese. 42:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So that all of them operate separately, that way if one of them is a bad boy, they can be dealt with separately and with that country's laws separately, that way the big, you know, Hancho isn't held responsible for the actions of the one. 42:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So you kind of see the playbook that has been played out over all of this time. 42:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we know that the resources in the assets of the archdiocese of Baltimore is way more than the $100 million that Lori has mentioned. 42:39 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you see the beautiful buildings in the beautiful artwork and all of the real estate that the archdiocese of Baltimore operates within Maryland. 42:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And you just wonder, how are they going to get away with saying that they could have as low as $100 million in assets? 43:00 [SPEAKER_00]: That's disgusting. 43:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely disgusting. 43:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Shane, can we maybe brainstorm right now and ask your listeners to do the same thing? 43:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Some things that we as individuals and groups can do like one thing I do think would be a significant would be not to give a penny to the church. 43:21 [SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of people feel pressured, a lot of people still go to mass and I'm not putting that down. 43:27 [SPEAKER_03]: But the money that you're putting in the 43:30 [SPEAKER_03]: That's not going to help survivors. 43:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I know that some of her that somebody might start a movement where they get people to use a red envelope, or a different color envelope, and to write survivors fund when the envelope, but we're not guaranteed that that's going to go into a survivors fund. 43:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 43:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Another thing would be like companies like Pepsi Cola, 43:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Suppose they gave 18 million dollars to survivors. 44:01 [SPEAKER_03]: And David said, worked up Mount with the attorneys and said, this is what we paid for this. 44:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it sounds crazy, but they have a taste team really gained dollars. 44:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll buy more Pepsi, but I'm not going to mess. 44:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not making a donation. 44:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I deal with the racked. 44:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't give to even Catholic charities. 44:23 [SPEAKER_03]: There's overhead involved in that. 44:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 44:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, it's a chunk of that before it goes anywhere. 44:28 [SPEAKER_03]: What are some other things that you can think of that we could do? 44:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I think in all honesty, the problem lies at the head of the business. 44:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And if they want to fix the problem, the bankruptcy court during the reorganization, I feel like needs to 44:48 [SPEAKER_00]: remove or pressure and along with all of the Catholics who are part of the Archdiocese Baltimore needs to pressure a lorry to step down. 44:58 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm not Catholic. 45:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I have no say or sway in any of this, but my ultimate feeling is that someone needs to be in charge. 45:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And for a long time in all of this, 45:14 [SPEAKER_00]: the men who have been in charge of the archdiocese and Baltimore have gone along with what's been happening. 45:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think until a woman is put in charge of that position, which will be, you know, I think a lot of people will maybe laugh at that because there's still some problems with the Catholic Church and putting women in places of power, I guess. 45:39 [SPEAKER_00]: But until they put a woman in charge, 45:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that ultimately there has been so many men who have failed in that position and who have allowed children to be abused repetitively and I think you're not only being abused but these are children who were part of the Catholic system and I see how important religion is to people. 46:05 [SPEAKER_00]: and how spiritualism and religion can be important to people who go through things, that sometimes religion can be something that's very important to people. 46:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So not only 46:18 [SPEAKER_00]: was the archdiocese of Baltimore. 46:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Not only did they go along with this type of abuse of children, it was children in your own system. 46:30 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, in some may argue that you also have to take into account all of the children they helped through charities. 46:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, with one hand, they can help a child who's hungry, but in the other hand, they've helped abuse sexually abuse all of these 46:47 [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't make a right. 46:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And so what I would like to see is leadership replaced with new leadership who people feel that they can trust. 46:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was raised by my grandmother. 47:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And I trust her. 47:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And my grandma was a very strong woman. 47:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And I really like strong women like that. 47:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And personalities like you and Jean and Teresa, all of those women, all the survivors that I've met, all of those strong women, 47:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So I would like to see a woman in charge. 47:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that would be a really good thing to see. 47:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a really long-winded answer, but I don't think that the church, the archdiocese of Baltimore as is now, can be trusted, you know, if there's a red envelope, I don't think that money's going to go where they're going to say it's going to go. 47:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine how much money they have put into petitioning against the Child's Victim Act over all of these years. 47:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that they have argued during this bankruptcy filing is that even the people who go to court to petition for them against laws that protect children like the child victims act, all of that money is also being shielded from their assets. 48:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Why would that be, you know, like, it's still a part of the archdiocese, so it's just funny to me that they've created all of these bubbles to protect us much as they can. 48:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is this huge business when they want to say thoughts, concerns, and prayers all day long. 48:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, this is about the survivors. 48:29 [SPEAKER_00]: We want to make sure through this bankruptcy that survivors get the most that they can, and we don't want to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 48:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't come with me at that. 48:37 [SPEAKER_00]: There are much better ways to do this. 48:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that the reason is so that you can end the amount of people who can claim. 48:47 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to make your own statute of limitation within your organization, within your business. 48:54 [SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly what this is all about. 48:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And another 49:01 [SPEAKER_00]: is that through this bankruptcy process, there is going to be no discovery. 49:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So, if I was a victim and I was to sue them, during that process, I would be able to get access to information to prove this happened. 49:20 [SPEAKER_00]: because of this bankruptcy, that's not going to happen. 49:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're also going to not have that discovery process, so they're going to continue to cover up and shield all of these predators that they have gone through and protected through all this time. 49:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, in a future episode, Gemma and I will talk about the Attorney General report that they tried impotitions so hard to redact. 49:44 [SPEAKER_00]: which was really funny because initially they were preaching high and dry about let it come out and let it be clean and let's just air yeah transparent was the word they wanted to say and then we realized that they had a separate little arm that they had that they thought no one would find out and that separate arm is the entity that filed to try to prevent the report from coming out and then the separate arm also filed to have it redacted 50:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And they thought no one would catch that that was actually the archdiocese of Baltimore, haha. 50:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So. 50:17 [SPEAKER_03]: So Shane, first of all, nobody's going to laugh at you about putting a woman in charge. 50:24 [SPEAKER_03]: And I just, there's always room for levity. 50:27 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to jump in here and say, do you think they would 50:41 [SPEAKER_03]: make it right. 50:42 [SPEAKER_03]: And honestly, if we ran, I think I'm, oh, we didn't win. 50:47 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they should have a board full of people like you and me, a couple survivors who have been through the process and some Catholics. 51:00 [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, they have an advisory board. 51:03 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm talking about being the 51:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know, instead of the art special, yeah, yeah, yeah, that way, the decisions being handed down because, you know, I understand this is a religion, but there's such a powerful religion. 51:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And I understand the importance of Catholic people in Maryland, you know, wanting their organization to be ran by Catholics, I understand that, but on the other hand, look what they've done with it. 51:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, I think that if they want to remain going, something has to change, and I understand the importance of people's religion, but what they're doing now isn't working, it's not been working. 51:50 [SPEAKER_03]: I do have question that or a comment that you might be able to address if an abuser is living and a person wants to sue them in what are for it to be a criminal offense. 52:06 [SPEAKER_03]: They would have to have evidence of the abuse, correct? 52:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So in other words, they would need to have had a rate kit done and the DNA would match the abuse or they would have to have so many admit to it in order for it to be a felony and for somebody to go to jail. 52:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if an individual tries to sue their abuse or it would be a civil lawsuit, 52:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, but it could be a criminal suit if they have evidence. 52:39 [SPEAKER_00]: The criminal suit would have to be charged by the prosecutor and an individual cannot sue criminal attorney, right? 52:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 52:47 [SPEAKER_03]: OK. 52:48 [SPEAKER_03]: So criminal suits are brought by the state, like the state versus. 52:54 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. 52:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 52:55 [SPEAKER_03]: OK. And that could happen if somebody shows that there's 53:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Correct. 53:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, or it could be a misdemeanor too, technically, but there's a higher standard of proof in criminal cases than civil cases. 53:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 53:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And in civil cases, there's a monetary amount that is awarded, and it is a lower standard. 53:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a preponderance of the evidence. 53:25 [SPEAKER_03]: So more likely than not. 53:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 53:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So you still have to prove it. 53:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So just like in OJ Simpson's case, the victim's family in that case, although OJ was found innocent in his criminal trial, the victim's family was able to sue him civilly in one. 53:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So that could be a possibility, I guess. 53:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But again, their abuser would have to be living still. 53:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, they would have to have the assets, but you also shoot a priest that's living right at one, yeah, they may not get any and you have to have the evidence, you know, so you have to have on hand the evidence to show a happened. 54:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Right. 54:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and it's going to be expensive. 54:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's another thing to keep in mind is that it's not going to be cheap. 54:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 54:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, fortunately. 54:26 [SPEAKER_03]: The attorneys who are representing survivor clients are the ones that I have interacted with are most standard. 54:38 [SPEAKER_03]: They have a lot of integrity and they are not taking a penny unless they win. 54:44 [SPEAKER_03]: But right now, if things stay as they are and I guess it's inevitable that they will it looks like. 54:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Almost like communism where everybody's going to get the same. 54:57 [SPEAKER_03]: There's going to be a finite amount of money. 55:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's say there's a hundred clients and there's a hundred dollars. 55:03 [SPEAKER_03]: everybody's going to get a dollar. 55:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 55:06 [SPEAKER_03]: That's over centified, but that's basically what's going to happen. 55:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what will happen is during the bankruptcy process, the court will allow for an agreement between the archdiocese and its creditors, which will be the survivors. 55:22 [SPEAKER_00]: There will be an agreement that will need to be come up with between the two parties. 55:30 [SPEAKER_00]: The archdiocese will want a trust fund to be created that they can pay into, and survivors will be paid out of that over time is what they'll want to happen. 55:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And the archdiocese will want to not have to liquidate their assets. 55:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, this is going to be the assets that they are claiming on paper that the archdiocese 56:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So, they're going to try to protect what they have and not try to sell off any of their buildings aren't work, any of those things. 56:13 [SPEAKER_03]: So is there any reason that large corporations that support the survivors can't financially support them by starting private funds for compensation? 56:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, like, let's just say Pepsi said, well, we're gonna put $18 million in a, I don't know, in a survivor's fund for anybody who was abused in our scholarship queue, high school. 56:42 [SPEAKER_03]: That's a pretty simple move. 56:44 [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to notch what we paid because you gave us a new factory, you know, the Pepsi's never going to go away. 56:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And but is there any reason? 56:55 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, Pepsi come on. 56:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Is there any reason why companies can't do that? 57:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Or is that showing favoritism? 57:04 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, they could do it. 57:05 [SPEAKER_00]: They could just set up their own nonprofit. 57:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 57:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Allow that to happen. 57:09 [SPEAKER_00]: That's definitely a possibility. 57:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, why would they do it? 57:14 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, because it's the right thing to do. 57:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it is the right thing to do. 57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So Pepsi, if you're listening. 57:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I think we'll buy more Pepsi. 57:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 57:23 [SPEAKER_03]: I'd buy. 57:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I would buy Pepsi. 57:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 57:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 57:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I feel like there are like things, not grassroots, but things that we 57:33 [SPEAKER_03]: as a country of good people can do to fight this mess because you know what's showing now, the archdiocese is very transparent right now. 57:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm getting this picture of this man and a bubble, you know, like a 57:53 [SPEAKER_03]: one of those snow globe things, you know, there's our traditional glory and there's all these little bubbles floating around and they're all protected. 58:02 [SPEAKER_03]: But boy is it transparent. 58:04 [SPEAKER_03]: So if anything good comes out of this, it's going to be to show how evil this whole system is and that it's not the way Jesus would have lived. 58:14 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not the way he lived and it's not the way he treated people. 58:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think another important thing that we need to bring up is we've mentioned the child victims act, the archdiocese has appealed the act. 58:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So in another wing, they have brought that act to Maryland Supreme Court, and so Maryland Supreme Court still has to decide on the legality of that law. 58:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, again, the archdiocese for many years have been fighting for survivors of abuse to not be allowed to come forward. 58:55 [SPEAKER_00]: At any point in time after their abuse, they just feel like there should be a statute of limitation. 59:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And this law, the Child's Victims Act, eliminates the statute of limitation. 59:08 [SPEAKER_00]: and then now that it's passed, they've appealed it. 59:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's gone to the Maryland Supreme Court. 59:14 [SPEAKER_00]: They're trying to argue against it. 59:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, one of their arguments during this entire process has been, it shouldn't be passed because we will have to file bankruptcy. 59:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, it's interesting to me that they would always say that's the reason it shouldn't be passed 59:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Because that is them in my mind admitting thought that they will be found liable because of all of the children that they have allowed to be abused under their watch. 59:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Because they know that so many have been abused that they won't be able to pay for it. 60:05 [SPEAKER_00]: They're bringing it to Maryland Supreme Court. 60:07 [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to spend tens of millions of dollars to do this bankruptcy. 60:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder how much the archbishop, his royal highness, Lori, has spent on this entire process. 60:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And this entire time, he could have just set down at the table. 60:28 [SPEAKER_00]: figured out how much money it will take to come up with a settlement of some kind because ultimately what we know of when someone is a survivor of abuse as children. 60:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a hard life and they need therapy. 60:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Therapy is expensive. 60:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And oftentimes, not only do you have a hard life, you have periods of times when you can't work or you drop out of school. 60:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So you struggle financially and you struggle in your entire life. 61:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So these people need some type of help and you can't do that. 61:06 [SPEAKER_00]: The idea that they have spent all of this money to fight this problem that they have, right? 61:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And their idea now is always trying to flip the table and spin it to we're always trying to do what's best for the survivor victim is what they always say. 61:23 [SPEAKER_00]: and thoughts and prayers, and none of it makes sense to me. 61:28 [SPEAKER_00]: If that was really the case, they wouldn't have been fighting the law this entire time. 61:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Their side, all this time would have been, you're right. 61:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Maryland, if you're in Maryland and your abuse is a child, you should be allowed to come forward at any time in your life. 61:45 [SPEAKER_00]: and go after your abuser and everyone who was responsible for hiding the abuser and allowing them to continue to abuse other children. 61:54 [SPEAKER_00]: That should have been their stance from the very beginning and because it wasn't, yeah, and because it wasn't, this is the mess we're in. 62:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, tell us what to do and we will do it the best we can on. 62:09 [SPEAKER_03]: A couple of things we said reminded me of something and one is that because we're probably coming close to the end here, but for any survivors that are listening, if you have not yet reported to the attorney general's office, please do that if you need help, I want you to private message me on Facebook because I will stay up all night if I have to getting that information to you. 62:33 [SPEAKER_03]: If you are in the diocese of Washington or the diocese of Wilmington, those investigations have started and Richard Wolf has made a specific point to tell me to encourage those of you that are from their schools and parishes. 62:49 [SPEAKER_03]: to please come forward. 62:51 [SPEAKER_03]: If you have come forward and you don't have an attorney, please, that your attorney is carefully and find somebody that you trust because we're not going away. 63:03 [SPEAKER_03]: We're not attorneys. 63:04 [SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna be supporting you as advocates, but, 63:07 [SPEAKER_03]: You really need an attorney to get through this, and somebody that will do it without taking your money unless they win something for you. 63:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Those are the best ones to have, and the other thing is therapy, as Shane mentioned, therapy is expensive. 63:37 [SPEAKER_03]: web page. 63:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I believe the Facebook page, which is turned into more of a discussion group, is the private page. 63:44 [SPEAKER_03]: But if you want to apply for funds, you can also contact Michelle, 64:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I also want to add to that that if you would like to donate to Cister Kathy's fund, you can do that as well. 64:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So we will put a link to their fund and our show notes, all of that money will help survivors as well. 64:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Shout to us, reach out to us, let us know what you're thinking, ask questions and make comments and then when we record again. 64:26 [SPEAKER_03]: we can address your questions, concerns, or your discoveries. 64:29 [SPEAKER_03]: If you have another home moment or you're from another state where there was a bankruptcy in the issue and something was worked out to the advantage of survivors, the survivors and their advocates are our only priority. 64:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Our priority is not the archdiocese of Baltimore. 64:50 [SPEAKER_03]: If I were a practicing Catholic, I would not be practicing. 64:55 [SPEAKER_03]: not get money, and I would write a nice letter to say why I'm not doing either, because it's pressure, pressure, to be part of there, fundraising in there. 65:06 [SPEAKER_03]: They put your name on a wall, and if you give enough alms, you get a green dot, and if you don't get money, you get a red dot. 65:22 [SPEAKER_03]: We love you and we care about you. 65:24 [SPEAKER_03]: So please let us hear from you. 65:26 [SPEAKER_03]: So listen, share it, please send it to you to your attorney, send it to people that don't understand the bankruptcy and stop giving money to the Catholic church. 65:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 65:38 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things I want to add before we go is just a little food for thought before we start our next episode, just to lead into it a little bit. 65:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Jim, we kind of started this whole process and it was kind of just a way years ago now as a voice as a podcast just for survivors to continue to tell what happened and to continue to talk about what happened to Sister Kathy. 66:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's kind of become much larger than that. 66:06 [SPEAKER_00]: We thought maybe we would have a couple episodes and look what's happened, you know, continue on with the years and air will return in. 66:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But I wanted to add that through the discussion today, you kind of see all the tricks and all the hard work in the millions of dollars 66:25 [SPEAKER_00]: that the Archdiocese is putting forward to continue to hide all of the work that they have done to cover up the abuse that's happened. 66:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And so the question that I want to leave listeners is, if they're willing to put this much money and effort into silencing survivors and hiding and covering up all of this abuse, what were they willing to do in 1969 when a single woman learned of the abuse and started asking questions. 67:05 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
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