0:07 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching. 0:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey guys, welcome back to foul play. 0:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Today I'm joined with Gemma. 0:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Gemma, why don't you explain who's with us today? 0:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we're really looking forward to this interview today. 0:42 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people have asked about those in the keepers who took polygraphs. 0:48 [SPEAKER_03]: So today's guest is the 0:57 [SPEAKER_03]: and security consulting company founded by retired FBI special agent and that special agent is our special guests. 1:07 [SPEAKER_03]: So we want you to join us in welcoming William Ortiz. 1:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, well, young. 1:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Hi, guys. 1:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for having me sent on her. 1:14 [SPEAKER_03]: If we could start, can you tell us about something about your background and your education so we can get an idea of how you got where you are. 1:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure, my degree in criminal justice, I do not have some great work on forensic physiology, I served in the Marines for six and a half years. 1:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I was an FBI agent for 22 years in 2019 and decided to hand it loves and retire, then about a month after I opened a credibility assessor company based in Tampa, Florida. 1:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Can you talk a little bit about your experiences and FBI agent? 1:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure. 1:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Twenty-two years, I did a lot of fun stuff. 1:51 [SPEAKER_04]: I started working domestic terrorism, then I went to violent crimes, leader of founders, street gangs, and then we had the 911 attacks. 2:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Bureau changed, priorities changed, then I became a switch to a international terrorism with specialized in al-Qaeda, and I work al-Qaeda cases overseas. 2:11 [SPEAKER_04]: And FBI certified hostage, 2:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's also certified sweat operator and a certified honorific set. 2:19 [SPEAKER_03]: So I just want to clarify, you said you were an FBI agent for 22 years. 2:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, man. 2:25 [SPEAKER_03]: So you must have started right around 9 11 correct. 2:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I do in the in 97 September 1999, though about for you. 2:34 [SPEAKER_03]: So you've traveled a lot being international. 2:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I've been all over the world. 2:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Very shiny places and not so exciting places. 2:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you couldn't be more interesting enough, you own a polygraph business, can you tell us about that and what kind of services you provide? 2:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, sure. 2:50 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a corset and that is a credibility assessment company. 2:53 [SPEAKER_04]: What we do is that we interview people. 2:55 [SPEAKER_04]: We appeal evidence. 2:56 [SPEAKER_04]: We try to improve any smooth exercises. 3:00 [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of the work that we do is for our attorneys. 3:02 [SPEAKER_04]: We also do pre-employment and maintenance interviews. 3:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Our interview is a little dishon and can produce. 3:08 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll produce as a stand-up in court if needed. 3:11 [SPEAKER_04]: One of the tools that we use is our product right. 3:13 [SPEAKER_04]: And we use that to validate what people tell us, we interview them. 3:18 [SPEAKER_04]: So we have, we have for print plans, we have government clients like I mentioned before attorneys, just regular citizens. 3:26 [SPEAKER_04]: If people want to know the truth, then we're there for them. 3:30 [SPEAKER_03]: So when you say credibility assessment, what would that mean in not technical language? 3:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Could you give us an example with that means? 3:39 [SPEAKER_04]: People will give us a story and we want to conduct specialized interviews to determine whether this person is telling the truth or not. 3:48 [SPEAKER_04]: If he answered the questions the way an honest person would answer the questions, not, and then 3:52 [SPEAKER_04]: At the end of the interview again, we're going to strap sensors, phones, and run data, run a record-fist-of-life foreseeable individual facility, LDSC answers, or each she answer questions, and then, with all of that together, then, now we reach a result. 4:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, this person is evidently having problems with the issue at hand. 4:15 [SPEAKER_04]: We're not. 4:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Are you called into court often to evaluate 4:21 [SPEAKER_03]: people who were in jail. 4:23 [SPEAKER_04]: So we go to court only to discuss the results of our findings. 4:28 [SPEAKER_04]: And if they'll work out, pick it up. 4:30 [SPEAKER_04]: So we don't, well, we go to court. 4:32 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I'm saying that if the idea agent, when I was asked to testify, I will not introduce myself as a partner examiner. 4:38 [SPEAKER_04]: I was just a girth, the idea agent, because we're not going to be introducing the results of polygraph, I said it is. 4:44 [SPEAKER_04]: What we're producing is what the 4:48 [SPEAKER_04]: I recently became a pain, then it is a miserable, that profession is a miserable, or so, that's what we would testify to in court. 4:59 [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to, next you ask you about the training that is involved in becoming a polygraph examiner. 5:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure. 5:07 [SPEAKER_04]: So there are different types of product of a channel. 5:10 [SPEAKER_04]: You have federal product of examiners like I am, they have state and local police product of examiners. 5:16 [SPEAKER_04]: You just have a regular product of examiners with no law enforcement background. 5:21 [SPEAKER_04]: I can tell you about becoming a federal examiner. 5:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that is if we're Jackson, South Carolina. 5:33 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's where all the related agencies send their gross strict examiners. 5:38 [SPEAKER_04]: GFBI, CIA, NSA, and all those related agencies. 5:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I went through it in 2010, and I believe the trade was three and a half months. 5:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and with centers known to be the premier polygraph cream center in the world. 5:51 [SPEAKER_04]: If we're learning biology, driven physiology, interview and interrogation, polygraph instrumentation, we'll talk about question, postduction, different testing formats, countermeasures. 6:03 [SPEAKER_04]: data analysis. 6:04 [SPEAKER_04]: We're the end of the training, then we're starting to relapse work, just basically role playing and we're testing individuals who have been asked to commit a crime, a fake crime, and then we would end a new event and conduct product graphics and to determine whether the committed the crime we're going to. 6:20 [SPEAKER_04]: So we do that many hours. 6:22 [SPEAKER_04]: So when we're done with training, product graphics admin are just ready to start running 6:29 [SPEAKER_03]: You said that's the federal center for polygraph training. 6:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, call the national, it has changed name with the several times what now is called the national center for the ability assessment, Nika. 6:43 [SPEAKER_03]: And it must be a huge facility. 6:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Is it like a college campus? 6:47 [SPEAKER_04]: It's on an army base for Gaxon. 6:49 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's a pretty big building. 6:52 [SPEAKER_04]: So that a campus is a building and there's 6:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Do regular people like Gemma and Shane ever get to go and see that place or is that like highly classified. 7:03 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, a good question. 7:05 [SPEAKER_04]: I got that you have to call you have to call them and see if they will let you tour close to don't see. 7:13 [SPEAKER_04]: There's nothing classified there. 7:15 [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of instruction that that may be classified, but you're not attending training. 7:20 [SPEAKER_04]: You're looking at facilities and so I don't see why. 7:24 [SPEAKER_04]: But I don't know the government works in weird ways sometimes road trip Shane. 7:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm all for that Well, you know what exactly is the step-by-step process that you have to go through when you're administering a polygraph? 7:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that most people you know what would have never have been in one. 7:42 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's a question that most people would like to know Yes, obviously the examiner needs to be prepared for examination 7:50 [SPEAKER_04]: So, not including any of that, let's talk about the actual examination. 7:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Examination has three stages or phases. 8:00 [SPEAKER_04]: The pre-test interview, the actual examination, the intest phase and the post-test. 8:06 [SPEAKER_04]: the pre-test, I believe, is the most important part of the examination, which is the first one. 8:11 [SPEAKER_04]: This is the least last, but I want to have to have two hours. 8:16 [SPEAKER_04]: And when we say swear, when we're as an examiner, I'm trying to build. 8:21 [SPEAKER_04]: rapport with Xemini. 8:24 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm trying to put him at ease. 8:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to be explaining. 8:27 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to give him another view of which going to happen. 8:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to explain product graph our works. 8:32 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll go over any legal rights that Xemini may be titled to do a practice test to calibrate and I want to see. 8:39 [SPEAKER_04]: I want to give him an opportunity to start feeling comfortable with the sensors before the actual exam. 8:43 [SPEAKER_04]: I want to see that he's able to follow instructions which is very important. 8:47 [SPEAKER_04]: I want 8:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And I want to see how big spider reacts when he tells a lot to his practice test. 8:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to ask him to lie to me. 8:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll ask him some medical questions because I'm going to be sure that he's picked to take the test. 9:00 [SPEAKER_04]: That includes any local consumption, any drugs. 9:03 [SPEAKER_04]: At some point, I'm going to start discussing the actual relevant issues. 9:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Will the... 9:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Conversing, it's not only a yes or no, type of interview, he gets the Gemini gets explained his answers, he has any questions, he'll have the other pre-test I need to make sure that he understands exactly what is it, and I'm going to be asked again. 9:23 [SPEAKER_04]: That's a final. 9:24 [SPEAKER_04]: That's step, so the pre-test is I'm going to review the actual questions that Sam and his plan could be asked, I'd draw the ink test again just for me to make sure that he or she understands what he's going to be asked. 9:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Then he'll be asked to move to the autographed chair, I'll connect all the sensors, and then I'm going to run questions that this is about five to ten minutes long. 9:47 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to be recording the Sam and his physiology as see answers, my questions. 9:53 [SPEAKER_04]: And then the post has the final stages when we discuss the results of the test. 9:57 [SPEAKER_04]: If he does well, thank you for coming. 10:00 [SPEAKER_04]: If he doesn't, there were one to be discussing like a what? 10:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Because you do not do well. 10:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, that's basically gay. 10:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously, the examination is recorded. 10:14 [SPEAKER_04]: The examination is told that the examination is recorded for their protection for my protection of the quality of the older sister. 10:22 [SPEAKER_03]: what we're used to seeing is the in-test part. 10:25 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what we see on television, right? 10:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Because it's because it's so dramatic. 10:29 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm interested in what the paper that's got the needle that goes back and forth. 10:36 [SPEAKER_03]: What exactly is that measuring? 10:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And you talked about sensors. 10:40 [SPEAKER_03]: So where are the sensors and what do those marks on the paper mean? 10:45 [SPEAKER_04]: So those needles represent, and by the way, we're going to have needles anymore. 10:49 [SPEAKER_04]: That's also, we'll now, it's all computer-based. 10:51 [SPEAKER_04]: The needles can do some channels. 10:54 [SPEAKER_04]: We have two numer-graph channels, so that's a restoration. 10:57 [SPEAKER_04]: So you have two tubes, one, pie a question chest. 11:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Another one lower across your abdomen. 11:02 [SPEAKER_04]: So I want to be looking at your respiration in breathing and upper body movement. 11:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Then we have the electrical activity plates. 11:11 [SPEAKER_04]: They go on the fingers, and those are used to record swept in activity. 11:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Then the cardiovascular, I can press, but pressure per record, heart rate, and blood volume. 11:23 [SPEAKER_04]: And then I'm going to have some motion sensors, seat sensors, foot sensors. 11:27 [SPEAKER_04]: And then some examiners use additional components, the sensors, those are what I use. 11:33 [SPEAKER_04]: So those are the lines that you see when you look at the grass, the charge switch. 11:37 [SPEAKER_03]: So I just want to make sure I understand 11:42 [SPEAKER_03]: sweat, the amount of sweat that somebody's body produces, and their blood pressure or their heart rate. 11:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, and I'm all used to seeing what's on television. 11:54 [SPEAKER_03]: When the needle swings wide, that means there's a discrepancy and that something's one of those centers is picking up something that's not normal. 12:05 [SPEAKER_04]: With the examinant knows the examinance, normal physiology, the baseline, and if we see, if you have terminate shows, reactions will just see that big reaction, the needle will be big, 12:21 [SPEAKER_04]: could be attributed to the question you may not be, but that's what we call the reaction. 12:27 [SPEAKER_04]: The questions are asked several times in random order. 12:31 [SPEAKER_04]: So if I ask you, did you go to McDonald's this morning? 12:34 [SPEAKER_04]: The U.S. or is no. 12:37 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'll tell you, okay, this does what I'm going to be asking you your text. 12:40 [SPEAKER_04]: And when I ask you, did you go to McDonald's? 12:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously, and with other questions, but that's let's say it was called at the relevant question. 12:46 [SPEAKER_04]: So I ask you, did you go to McDonald's this morning? 12:49 [SPEAKER_04]: You answer no, and I see a huge response. 12:52 [SPEAKER_04]: And then I'll kill me, ask it again, second or second chart, your friend order, then you react to that question again. 12:58 [SPEAKER_04]: After three, four, five presentations, I'll see that you always react to do the McDonald's question. 13:04 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to accuse you of lying, but you need to explain to me why is it that we answer another that your body's showing to shallot's responses. 13:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Now the computer, not product, graph it. 13:16 [SPEAKER_04]: You know your body. 13:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Looking for a game that's fun, relaxing, and gives classic solitaire a fresh twist, solitaire clash, spelled C-L-A-S-H, brings skill, speed, and strategy, together in a way that makes every round feel rewarding. 13:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just solitaire as you know it, it's solitaire elevated, with competitive modes and even the chance to win real cash. 13:38 [SPEAKER_01]: In the middle of a busy day, it's more important than ever to carve out a moment for yourself, whether it's during a commute, while waiting for a ride, or taking a quick pause to breathe. 13:47 [SPEAKER_01]: If solitaire clash offers a simple satisfying escape, a couple fast rounds can calm your mind to challenge your focus and give you that little boost you didn't realize you needed. 13:57 [SPEAKER_01]: It's perfect for those in-between moments. 13:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Familiar enough to jump right in, but dynamic enough to keep things interesting. 14:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Each match is quick. 14:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Kill Driven, and packed with that just one more game feeling. 14:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So, if it's been a while, take a moment to open Solitaire Clash. 14:12 [SPEAKER_01]: CL-ASH, play a few rounds, unwind, and enjoy the fun. 14:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe even win a little while you're at it. 14:19 [SPEAKER_02]: life can get overwhelming, and talking to someone can make all the difference. 14:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 14:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and as little as a couple of days, you can connect by message, phone, or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 14:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And if the first therapist 14:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Better help include a journal for personal reflection and daily group sessions on a variety of topics and they accept each essay and FSA cards. 15:00 [SPEAKER_02]: with over 2,000,000 users, and a 4. star rating on trust pilot. 15:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Better help is a trusted platform for accessible mental health care. 15:10 [SPEAKER_02]: If you think you could benefit from therapy, visit betterhelp.com, choose our podcast during sign-up, and get 10% off your first month. 15:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Taking care of your mental health is a sign of strength. 15:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Start your journey today. 15:26 [SPEAKER_03]: So now I have two questions about that. 15:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Have you ever had somebody make a confession all the time? 15:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's a goal. 15:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. 15:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but and you're a law enforcement officer. 15:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Have you had to make an arrest or is there somebody else there that would do that? 15:47 [SPEAKER_03]: the bad guys ever jump over the table and try and go after you. 15:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, it's a good question. 15:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, a good question. 15:53 [SPEAKER_04]: The way goes, I have a fellow guy to agent telling me a William. 15:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I think this guy dropped a spank. 16:01 [SPEAKER_04]: I want him to test it. 16:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll ask him, okay, tell me about the case. 16:04 [SPEAKER_04]: And this is when I'm start clapping, preparing for the test. 16:06 [SPEAKER_04]: This is a week or two before the exam. 16:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Ideally, so I started to file and 16:14 [SPEAKER_04]: So the agent and I discuss like what is it that you want to Validate, this is what I propose asking so once we all agree we have strategy Then The examinee is asked to come in a Monday come to the FBI office and tear back to take the product of examinations You agree because you have to reach to take it the individual comes in and 16:37 [SPEAKER_04]: My fellow agent is in my office that in my autograph suite looking at the interview right from monitors taking notes on all of that. 16:45 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm the one, the only one of the autographs of the suite with the Xamarinine suspect. 16:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And let's say he admits to rob in the bag. 16:54 [SPEAKER_04]: That's what we're fellow agents already. 16:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Pay attention and taking notes. 16:58 [SPEAKER_04]: And okay, yeah, we're going to take this guy. 16:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Chances are that he's going to, whilst I give him the green light, okay, we're done. 17:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Then the agent's watching. 17:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he's going to handcuffs. 17:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you. 17:09 [SPEAKER_04]: ready to pay as it could be allowed to walk go home and be arrested in a lot of leaders in so that's yeah so I'll put the handguns myself yes when I was working when I was investigating yes I did put handguns of people but once I became a full-time product of examiner my job was to never a lot of times we had to refer cases to the locals because it wasn't a real fantasy you're an applicant. 17:32 [SPEAKER_04]: So you're not the suspect of our federal crime, but during the applicant examination, you confess to committing local crimes that we will call the jurisdiction, any skies, touch your kids and take them. 17:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you say that the person who's taking the polygraph examination, they're given the questions ahead of time? 17:52 [SPEAKER_04]: No. 17:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you say they know they're not? 17:54 [SPEAKER_04]: No, they not. 17:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 17:56 [SPEAKER_04]: So is there anybody that we would know like any names of any really big bad dudes that you've administered polygraph to that you can share it was a very high profile case out of same Mary's Ohio so it was a very old case he was a better case and it was at the time a 71 year old Lynn was found beaten to death at home. 18:22 [SPEAKER_04]: So that case was resolved, honestly, for over 30 years. 18:27 [SPEAKER_04]: So at some point, the PD decided to go over the goal cases. 18:32 [SPEAKER_04]: And they decided to contact the FBI for assistance. 18:36 [SPEAKER_04]: The FBI reviewed the case, and they suggested to a photograph, a suspect that had back then. 18:43 [SPEAKER_04]: The police did not have enough on the individuals, so that's why he was never arrested. 18:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, I interviewed him. 18:49 [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, he admitted to you killing the individual after 30 plus years of the commission of comedian the crime. 18:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that was a big case back then because it was small time you would be you don't kill people there. 19:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like polygraphs when you get them in there. 19:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't know if pressure is the right word for it, but they feel like they're in an honest mood, I guess. 19:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that. 19:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I agree with you. 19:12 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know that pressure is the right word is the people come in nervous anxious and unlike goodness was going to happen to me. 19:19 [SPEAKER_04]: As an exam and a right job is to negate all of that. 19:22 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to put you at ease. 19:24 [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to become buddies. 19:26 [SPEAKER_04]: And you're going to feel so good. 19:27 [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to like me. 19:28 [SPEAKER_04]: And you're going to want to talk to me. 19:31 [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, you're going to feel so uncomfortable. 19:33 [SPEAKER_04]: So comfortable with me that you're going to give me statements against self interest. 19:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have to give them the marine rights? 19:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Not always, Pizz. 19:41 [SPEAKER_04]: I say, I'm trying to think back. 19:43 [SPEAKER_04]: I want to say that the vastly dirty of the times, I would say 90, 5% of the time I did not. 19:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Now this is at a federal level, right? 19:52 [SPEAKER_04]: For you. 19:54 [SPEAKER_04]: to have that, you have to be arrested or you can't be free to go. 19:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Or if you're kidding, willing me, you drove your car, but if I know that you're gonna be arrested right after the interview, then yes, I do need advice here if you're right. 20:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Otherwise, I don't have to. 20:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Even if you tell me, yeah, I kill that man. 20:12 [SPEAKER_04]: I can continue to test him or interview you without any rights. 20:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, if you tell me, I think I wanna talk to the lawyer, 20:21 [SPEAKER_04]: The other yet, it's not the end of it. 20:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Now I need to get an attorney. 20:23 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's not just, or you need to say, I want an attorney by just Accinuated that you want an attorney. 20:31 [SPEAKER_04]: That'll be enough for me to stop it or you can get an attorney. 20:34 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to lose evidence. 20:36 [SPEAKER_04]: So if you say something to me like that, and I don't get your an attorney, then you tell me that you kill a person. 20:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Guess what? 20:41 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to lose that evidence. 20:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And people have to come in to talk to you voluntarily. 20:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't they, or they don't have to force to do it? 20:50 [SPEAKER_04]: If they act forced, then they are not going to be tested. 20:55 [SPEAKER_04]: If I have a client or I have an examinee or I have a suspect, and what I'm, again, going through my pre-test phase where we discuss the consent forms and all of that, if I see the case forced, then I'm wasting time like I'm going to lose the evidence. 21:12 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'll tell them, hey, you don't have to do this. 21:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I close out the door for you privacy. 21:16 [SPEAKER_04]: But if at any given time, you want to stop the screen. 21:18 [SPEAKER_04]: You're free to do that. 21:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's how I do it. 21:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And that probably also helps them feel like you're on their side, too. 21:25 [SPEAKER_02]: That makes sense. 21:26 [SPEAKER_02]: William, can I wire pass a polygraph and can an honest person fail a polygraph? 21:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, and yes, that's when I go back into the examiner. 21:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Pontic Braff again, all it does is records physiological responses. 21:43 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll make some differences the examiner. 21:46 [SPEAKER_04]: If autumn conduct a good interview, I'm not even asking the right questions. 21:52 [SPEAKER_04]: I have the inadequate interview and environment 21:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm most professional, I'm engaging no on ethical behavior. 21:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that can affect the results of the test. 22:01 [SPEAKER_04]: I can't make an examinee fail the test. 22:06 [SPEAKER_04]: And I can help an examinee pass the test. 22:10 [SPEAKER_04]: I hate saying that, but that's really how it is. 22:16 [SPEAKER_04]: That's why it's important that when you're looking for an examiner that you hire a right examiner. 22:22 [SPEAKER_04]: So let me give you an example of how someone who's been truthful can fill the test. 22:27 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm asking you whether you've ever, let's go back to epic and test the screening testing. 22:32 [SPEAKER_04]: One of the questions I'll ask you, have you ever sex with you abused or salted another person, anyone? 22:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Right? 22:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see the Yannis dancers she now. 22:39 [SPEAKER_04]: but you were abused as a child. 22:43 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't tell me that. 22:44 [SPEAKER_04]: For whatever reason, the virus, we just don't tell me. 22:47 [SPEAKER_04]: And then, sit to the photograph chair and ask you, have you ever sexually abused? 22:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Anyone? 22:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Then you fell the test. 22:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Guess why? 22:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Why? 22:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Guess why you're reacting? 22:59 [SPEAKER_04]: You're reacting because you are the victim. 23:02 [SPEAKER_04]: So I failed to pull that out of the extract that from the Xenmini during the pre-test. 23:08 [SPEAKER_04]: That's what we call outside issues. 23:10 [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't matter how hard you try. 23:13 [SPEAKER_04]: There will be enemies that will never volunteer for mission like that. 23:15 [SPEAKER_04]: But that's an example of how you can react. 23:17 [SPEAKER_04]: After the test, when I'm done, I'll ask you, they say, what's going on in the rather, I ask you this, and you had reactions. 23:24 [SPEAKER_04]: You need to explain to me what is it? 23:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure it's not a big deal, don't worry about it. 23:28 [SPEAKER_04]: They you tell me, William, what happened to stage? 23:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you told me earlier that this is not a lie detector. 23:35 [SPEAKER_03]: That's a phrase everybody throws around. 23:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Could you explain that statement that it's not a lie detector? 23:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure, again, in polygraph B's A, Fushalatic a recorder. 23:48 [SPEAKER_04]: That's all it does. 23:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's compare it to a metal detector. 23:52 [SPEAKER_04]: When you go to the airport, you have to go through a metal detector. 23:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Do we call the metal detector a terrorist detector? 23:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Or a silent detector? 24:01 [SPEAKER_04]: No, we don't. 24:02 [SPEAKER_04]: The metal detector is only designed to detect metals. 24:05 [SPEAKER_04]: So someone walks through the metal detector with metals, with keys in the pocket, that doesn't make them a felon, that doesn't make them a terrorist. 24:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Go in back to polygraph, you can have physiological responses, 24:17 [SPEAKER_04]: either way you're not mine. 24:19 [SPEAKER_04]: That's why we don't call Ponticraft, a lie detector, Ponticraft. 24:25 [SPEAKER_04]: and does not confirm that a person is lying who had a dozen measures to change in the reaction to the questions they'll be asked. 24:32 [SPEAKER_02]: In what countries or states are polygraphs admissible in court? 24:36 [SPEAKER_04]: But there are several states in the US that allow polygraphs sold to court, but both parties must agree. 24:41 [SPEAKER_04]: There are many other countries that will use polygraph again as an investigative tool. 24:45 [SPEAKER_04]: And to hand, for example, polygraphs is used, but only for specific issues in criminal investigations. 24:51 [SPEAKER_04]: But I want to see that more and more jurisdictions are using the product graph in one way or another. 24:57 [SPEAKER_04]: And again, let's remember this, too. 24:59 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, remind you this, what the evidence as an investigator, this is what I just told my fellow FBI agents, don't worry whether the results of the autograph exam is at needs of war or not. 25:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm one of those who state they should never be admissible because like I mentioned to you before, won't can't fail the test when even when being truthful, pass a test when being receptive. 25:25 [SPEAKER_04]: So the evidence, it's really the admissions, the confessions. 25:30 [SPEAKER_04]: So if the confession was literally a thing followed the rule of law, then that is the evidence. 25:35 [SPEAKER_04]: So I would tell my agents, don't work by the results of the tax. 25:38 [SPEAKER_04]: What? 25:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Good to see. 25:39 [SPEAKER_04]: If I tell you, get a guy's filed a tax club. 25:41 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't have a profession. 25:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe you're back to square one. 25:44 [SPEAKER_04]: So I will work hard. 25:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Examiner will work hard to get admissions and confessions. 25:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's what the investigating agent will take to court. 25:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, well, I'm in the keepers, which you and I've talked about. 25:59 [SPEAKER_03]: And I know you've seen it. 26:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Sister Cappy says Nick's priest friend, Gary Coo. 26:04 [SPEAKER_03]: He was given two polygraphs. 26:06 [SPEAKER_03]: The first one was given to him by the, I guess you call it, given or administered by the Baltimore City Police Department when Sister Cappy disappeared. 26:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And then the other was given several months later 26:24 [SPEAKER_03]: when her body was found. 26:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, how might the questions differ and what would be the reason that Cube was tested twice? 26:34 [SPEAKER_04]: There it is. 26:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Remember, this is 1969 and 1970. 26:38 [SPEAKER_04]: It may not seem to charge in the re-ingophile. 26:41 [SPEAKER_04]: I can only speculate, but we'll have to assume that the first test was to determine whether he cleansed their thugs as you carefully. 26:48 [SPEAKER_04]: or participate it or in any way new class or death. 26:52 [SPEAKER_04]: That would be the first test. 26:54 [SPEAKER_04]: A second test could be because the county did not trust their results of the police test. 27:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Or it could be that they touched out on something else. 27:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Related, but a different relevant issue could be a different format. 27:07 [SPEAKER_04]: It could be a guilty knowledge test. 27:09 [SPEAKER_04]: It was asked. 27:10 [SPEAKER_04]: to see if seeing you the items that were used to cause a death of sister Kathy. 27:17 [SPEAKER_04]: So, yes, I would have to see the charge and the so many possibilities. 27:22 [SPEAKER_04]: The yes, the blaze taster, the jacilter, and the county taster. 27:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Was it a gun? 27:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Was it a knife? 27:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Was it a only the perpetrator would know if let's say it's not public knowledge No one knows only the police is the wear of what weapon or tool was used to cost a theft of that Well, then then as an examiner, if I know that I can't test a subject Or I'm going to test him to see if he knows what weapon was used Again, it's now word to be fun. 27:51 [SPEAKER_04]: The police has never They have never said anything to the media. 27:54 [SPEAKER_04]: No one knows. 27:55 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna see it 27:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Hammer was used to cross death. 27:59 [SPEAKER_04]: So I would ask who was it a gun? 28:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Was it a knife? 28:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Was it hammer? 28:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Was it none of the buff? 28:09 [SPEAKER_04]: So if we reacted to the hammer every time I asked them They that tells me he'll get he knew he was a hammer. 28:16 [SPEAKER_04]: So I always said that he knows that he was a hammer or no one else knows 28:21 [SPEAKER_03]: of a follow-up to that once Sister Kathy was found, she was in the county, the missing person case was closed because it was turned over to Baltimore County homicide. 28:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I was able to get the missing person report with a local Maryland Public Information Act. 28:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So I have all those documents, but with that polygraph be available as public document once the missing person case was closed is it worth me trying to get that with that be in those files too. 28:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I would try to get that. 28:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know why the local policy is rules and regulations, but if you're able to get that I'll love to review those charts and see the report because I may agree with the examiner's conclusion or I mean, I'll explain why I don't agree or are for with it, but yeah, I will get both exams. 29:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I doubt that I will be able to get it, but I'm going to try. 29:18 [SPEAKER_03]: I would never thought about getting that chain when we got everything else, where everything else, but we don't have that polygraph results for the first, for the missing person case. 29:29 [SPEAKER_03]: So, put not on my list now. 29:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that would be worth it. 29:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you're also Jerry Coobs friend Pete McKee and he claimed that he was with Coobs that night and he was also polygraphed, but on a different day, if the two men talked in between their tests, how could that affect their results? 29:54 [SPEAKER_04]: The benefit of knowledge, the questions, if in fact was asked to say questions, but you can prepare them for your kids. 30:01 [SPEAKER_01]: For your career, for your parents. 30:03 [SPEAKER_00]: For yourself, for the people who believed in you when no one else did. 30:07 [SPEAKER_00]: You know why you want your degree. 30:09 [SPEAKER_00]: But you might not know how to make it happen. 30:11 [SPEAKER_00]: That's where IWU comes in. 30:13 [SPEAKER_00]: With more than 160 online programs and convenient courses that fit with your schedule, we can equip you to achieve your dreams without putting the rest of your life on pause. 30:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Visit IWU is how.com to get started. 30:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Self-to-get is what I'm going to be at, and it's how I want to answer it. 30:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, make the alarm. 30:31 [SPEAKER_04]: If you did it, you're going to value your knack on sale. 30:34 [SPEAKER_04]: We're going back to Epic and Testing. 30:36 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll play can't you know the questions they're going to be asked because they research, okay? 30:41 [SPEAKER_04]: The FBI sent me an email, my product graph is on Monday, let me go online and see what they're expecting, how long is going to be blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 30:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, people know what they'll be asked. 30:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, I don't know if what the exam for exactly the same questions that the questions work, the same ones, but we're not affecting the results of the test. 31:01 [SPEAKER_03]: interesting. 31:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I guess I figured if they were on different days, that would skew the results, but it would probably wouldn't because you're measuring physiological responses. 31:13 [SPEAKER_04]: So, if beat. 31:14 [SPEAKER_04]: What he answered, no to the questions. 31:17 [SPEAKER_04]: He's seen you that he was lied or he feared again got to an L.I. 31:21 [SPEAKER_04]: He would have to slap the response. 31:23 [SPEAKER_04]: See, what of that? 31:24 [SPEAKER_04]: To slap the response. 31:25 [SPEAKER_03]: OK, along the same lines, Jerry Coup told me a couple years ago that the county officer, the one that administered the polygraph, after sister Kathy's body was found, he called him a rookie. 31:40 [SPEAKER_03]: is 1970, would it be possible for a rookie officer to be administering a polygraph? 31:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, we all have to start somewhere, but I don't buy that though. 31:51 [SPEAKER_04]: We all have big egos. 31:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you think I'm going to tell a subject. 31:53 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm a rookie. 31:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what I'm doing. 31:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Unfortunately, I was an examiner. 31:57 [SPEAKER_04]: I want to give my exam. 31:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Any confidence. 31:59 [SPEAKER_04]: I wanted him to feel like this guy knows what he's doing. 32:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Even if I know that I'm going to tell someone and hopefully you'll pass. 32:06 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm a rookie. 32:07 [SPEAKER_04]: The whole that against me. 32:08 [SPEAKER_04]: No, not I don't buy that. 32:11 [SPEAKER_04]: And so yeah, I don't see it, but it is possible for a department or an agency to a sunny and experienced examiner to test if you've that's all they have. 32:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's all they have. 32:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Seems like by then it was a pretty high profile case. 32:25 [SPEAKER_03]: And I will always wonder about that. 32:27 [SPEAKER_03]: But he also told me, he didn't exactly say he didn't pass. 32:32 [SPEAKER_03]: But what he said was that after the exam, the officer said to him, either you don't trust me or you're hiding something. 32:41 [SPEAKER_03]: And Kubriek bonded that he wasn't hiding anything. 32:44 [SPEAKER_03]: So it must be the first that he didn't trust the officer. 32:49 [SPEAKER_03]: What would that infer to you? 32:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I would think that he passed a test is you felt my test. 32:56 [SPEAKER_04]: You've got to you got to know. 32:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to tell you a you felt my test. 33:01 [SPEAKER_04]: There's still that in my mind that you did whatever the allegation is right. 33:05 [SPEAKER_04]: And then we're going to start talking about, okay, one minute, you do that. 33:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Love, love, love, love. 33:10 [SPEAKER_04]: We are great like that. 33:12 [SPEAKER_04]: is, it's an indication that he passed a test. 33:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Again, I would have to see that charts. 33:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he was a Ruby, I didn't know how to score the test. 33:21 [SPEAKER_04]: I was y'all don't want to believe that, but I want to say, that's a typical, what we call it post-test of someone who passed a test. 33:29 [SPEAKER_04]: There's wrestling control of pastures, and if you're reacting to the control of pastures, obviously we're going to say you're hiding something, but we're not going to the relevant issues. 33:37 [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, if he had failed, 33:42 [SPEAKER_02]: that examiner had to interrogate the examiners, and he would have known to follow up on that when people normally fail polygraphs, is that normally made public information? 33:57 [SPEAKER_03]: It's all part of the investigation and if the investigation is not or a public conception then not. 34:13 [SPEAKER_03]: very good. 34:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I personally don't believe that. 34:17 [SPEAKER_04]: We got to go back to what pornograph is. 34:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. 34:20 [SPEAKER_04]: The one that will determine what the solo passion is, janitor. 34:23 [SPEAKER_04]: The pornograph again, I'm recording to show out the response. 34:26 [SPEAKER_04]: They say you don't feel any remorse for King someone. 34:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Right. 34:30 [SPEAKER_04]: You may actually believe if you believe that you believe it to be true, then it's different. 34:35 [SPEAKER_04]: But if you know you're 10 in a lot, that kind of two. 34:44 [SPEAKER_04]: process. 34:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Cut the globe. 34:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Those are visualizing responses you can't control, you come from the sent to nervous system. 34:50 [SPEAKER_04]: But like what I've calibrated for example, the instrument sometimes I ask the leg damn it is. 34:55 [SPEAKER_04]: A West 2 plus 2, obviously easy question, not threatening nature is for, when they answer floor. 35:02 [SPEAKER_04]: their bodies have artificial anthrop responses. 35:05 [SPEAKER_04]: It's because all of that, because of the thought, right? 35:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Linus intentionally done, so it's the same thing, because you're impeachably lying, okay, this is when I need to lie. 35:14 [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to show reactions. 35:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't buy that psychos can pass a test now. 35:19 [SPEAKER_02]: So for Jerry Kube, it would be up to him to tell people if he failed or passed a test that wouldn't have been something that would have been released to the public. 35:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that correct? 35:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I started to tell you. 35:31 [SPEAKER_04]: And for you to know for sure, you would have to go back to the county or the police. 35:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Every time I've tested, subject. 35:40 [SPEAKER_04]: The FBI never went back. 35:42 [SPEAKER_04]: The never came out to the media. 35:43 [SPEAKER_04]: A to sky felt. 35:44 [SPEAKER_04]: And I've tested very high profile. 35:46 [SPEAKER_04]: It's an individual's. 35:47 [SPEAKER_04]: And we never went to the media. 35:49 [SPEAKER_04]: A to the tell them, no, we don't do that. 35:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And would it be fair to say that if someone were to fail a test, you wouldn't want people to know that. 35:57 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not a very good thing. 35:59 [SPEAKER_02]: But also, if you were being tested by someone who was a rookie compared to someone who has done it for many years, 36:09 [SPEAKER_02]: If you found someone failed a test, verse or rookie found someone failed a test, or if you found someone who passed a test, verse or rookie who found someone who passed a test, would you say in your opinion that your findings would be more accurate than the rookie's finding of it? 36:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I asked you to test this. 36:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's go to the test. 36:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's say it was recorded. 36:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Like now, we have to record examples. 36:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, what to hear the recording? 36:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Because if a rookie, 36:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Ratatest, the way it's supposed to, is going to have to say we're solved that an experience that javiter is going to use or to obtain. 36:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Is there ever instances where examiners have different opinions? 36:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yes, all the times of the experiences. 36:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, all the time, but it's mainly on data analysis, I will think, one might think, oh, this is a 37:05 [SPEAKER_04]: But that's actually rare, I want to say. 37:08 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that we have a QC process. 37:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Pilate control process, agencies have those, and at times, an examiner will send to Pilate control, a passing test or a freelance test in Pilate control. 37:21 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll reverse that. 37:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Pilate control being another examiner. 37:23 [SPEAKER_04]: So yes, it's what examiners can, is it, we? 37:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 37:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Good. 37:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for answering that question. 37:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I was a very thorough question. 37:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Before I asked this question, one thing that you mentioned earlier, I feel like you, Gemma, I'm just jumping around. 37:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I asked an all these questions. 37:37 [SPEAKER_02]: This is not like me. 37:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm asking a bunch of questions. 37:39 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not on my paper earlier. 37:41 [SPEAKER_03]: You had, I see a job in your future, Shane. 37:43 [SPEAKER_02]: This is what happens after you're sick and you're at home for a couple weeks that you're just, you get out and you just feel like you have all the questions you want to do all the talking. 37:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Earlier you mentioned that some of the reasons that people fail on polygraphs is because of things that they don't tell you ahead of time for example you mentioned. 38:02 [SPEAKER_02]: If you ask someone if they abused a child, they may fail that question because they reacted negatively because they were abused child and one of the things in my head that made me think of that is because on a previous podcast. 38:17 [SPEAKER_02]: We once had this conversation with someone about how sometimes victims of child sexual abuse do not like to share that they were victims of that because there is this stigma that just because you were abused as a child, you will go on to abuse children. 38:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Because there is this thought that I see it in the true crime community all the time, when you watch a true crime show or you hear about this person who abused children, oh, I bet they were abused as a child and that puts a huge stigma behind people who are abused as children. 38:53 [SPEAKER_02]: So I just want that to resonate with listeners for a moment that people who are abused as children don't always speak about it because of that stigma behind it because of that reason. 39:03 [SPEAKER_02]: So going back to the actual question that has nothing to do with what I just said, 39:07 [SPEAKER_02]: How has Polar Graph technology changed since that time 50 years ago? 39:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I know you mentioned that the needles that we still see on TV now is not a thing, but they're all hollywood. 39:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and so it has to progress tremendously. 39:22 [SPEAKER_04]: We're not, we're digital now. 39:23 [SPEAKER_04]: We're not using the analog, and we'd all have those big boxes, and preachers in the polygraph role, and charts pretty dense. 39:30 [SPEAKER_04]: We're asking questions to solve digital. 39:33 [SPEAKER_04]: We even have software that we will score, charts, not that I use those. 39:37 [SPEAKER_04]: But that just the formulas have changed. 39:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Scoring techniques have changed. 39:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Polygraph now is a lot better than it was in a year ago, and it continues to improve. 39:47 [SPEAKER_04]: to speak. 39:48 [SPEAKER_04]: We have a lot of people doing research and we're only trying to make it better. 39:51 [SPEAKER_03]: William, okay, here I am being random. 39:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Is it necessary to be a law enforcement officer in order to be a polygraph administered? 40:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes and no. 40:01 [SPEAKER_04]: In the FBI, you need to be a law enforcement 40:09 [SPEAKER_04]: an examiner. 40:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Now in the FBI, in certain other three letter agencies, and I'm sure local police too, one must be an investigator, a law enforcement officer, because again, a lot of the big part of autograph is interviewing and interrogation. 40:26 [SPEAKER_04]: And you need someone that has experienced it and they're right amount of training to do that. 40:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Photograph, I say anyone can 40:37 [SPEAKER_04]: and run it. 40:38 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, so now we know that you saw the test. 40:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Now what? 40:42 [SPEAKER_04]: That's when training and experience comes in. 40:45 [SPEAKER_04]: But trans you're a question that you don't have to be a law first. 40:48 [SPEAKER_03]: OK, like right now, I'm taking courses in criminal justice. 40:52 [SPEAKER_03]: And everything you talked about is part of that program. 40:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And would I be able to be trained as a polygraph administrator if I had my degree in criminal justice? 41:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. 41:04 [SPEAKER_04]: If we any degree, and all you have to do is look for a reputable autographed train center. 41:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that has been accredited by the American Polytechnical Association, and if you meet the requirements, that is it, you become a Polytechnical Examiner, then maybe we can work together. 41:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I was going to say I'm going to come and work with you, okay? 41:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a, we could be right Shane the way we dig. 41:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 41:31 [SPEAKER_03]: So here's your opportunity to say anything you want any message you have for anybody is I think this would be a really cool career there's like somebody wants to go to college and doesn't want to go into law enforcement, but likes this technical side of it. 41:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I would think that would be a very interesting. 41:49 [SPEAKER_03]: career. 41:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody was going to be like a CSI person, and now that's waiting. 41:56 [SPEAKER_03]: So what would you like to say to our listeners? 41:59 [SPEAKER_04]: I just want to remind people that we get polygraphs that are like detector. 42:04 [SPEAKER_04]: It is a physiological recorder, one makes difference in terms of actresses' examiner. 42:10 [SPEAKER_04]: So, if you're looking into getting one done, but for yourself or someone else, looking for peace of mind, you want to know the truth, make sure you're examining the examiners credentials, and make sure you're hiring a competent examiner. 42:23 [SPEAKER_03]: We want to thank you so much for your time today. 42:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thanks, volume. 42:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And before we let you go, because I'm such an a question, driven mood, I'll have one more question for you. 42:34 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know this is going to be a question that a lot of people have that I want to go ahead and ask you, especially in the true crime community. 42:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think in the public's eye in general, there's a lot of, I think distrust, and maybe it's because of TV of polygraphs. 42:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you think that is? 42:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it because of the way that Hollywood portrays it or because of people who have misused it? 43:04 [SPEAKER_04]: There's a combination of some of any factors. 43:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, Hollywood also lack of controls and like in some states like in Florida, you can be an examiner. 43:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And you don't need to be licensed. 43:15 [SPEAKER_04]: You want to become an examiner on YouTube. 43:17 [SPEAKER_04]: You get yourself a nice website. 43:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Why the equipment? 43:20 [SPEAKER_04]: And now you're competing against me. 43:23 [SPEAKER_04]: And you do a very bad autograph and now you're hurting our rep stage and in the scientific community they have a valid point a lot of times we can't replicate it again do the same thing with you on another examiner does it the same way and gets a different salt then that's that can be problematic at the end of the day this is what I'll tell new examiners and fellow agents. 43:46 [SPEAKER_04]: The person who really needs to believe in polygraphistic genre, I need to trust like charts. 43:50 [SPEAKER_04]: If I were to show you a picture of Lebron James, and I told you that's not Lebron James, that's Michael Jordan. 43:58 [SPEAKER_04]: There's nothing I can say to you to convince you otherwise. 44:01 [SPEAKER_04]: So, polygraph, the charts, that's a picture of you lying to me. 44:07 [SPEAKER_04]: So, there's nothing you can say to me that will persuade me otherwise. 44:12 [SPEAKER_04]: So, when I do live interrogations 44:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I want to say a half it hover hand, a regular investigator, he might think that you dropped the bank. 44:21 [SPEAKER_04]: But after an hour or two of the Niles, he might start second guessing himself. 44:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe she didn't do it then. 44:27 [SPEAKER_04]: You will identify that right away. 44:30 [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to be like, OK, I got. 44:31 [SPEAKER_04]: If you have an examiner who trusts, he's charged. 44:35 [SPEAKER_04]: That's not going to happen. 44:36 [SPEAKER_04]: If I have to be there for five hours, that's what I'll do. 44:40 [SPEAKER_04]: But I know you robbed the bag because I have a picture of you robbed in the bag. 44:46 [SPEAKER_04]: So I don't pay much attention to what people say or robes, you've got those of work. 44:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, yeah, the side you feel then take the jam. 44:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Let me do my thing. 44:56 [SPEAKER_04]: You're saying, do not rip that wool in. 44:58 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, okay, let me do the touch. 45:01 [SPEAKER_04]: And the end of the interview, two people will know whether you rig the wool in. 45:10 [SPEAKER_02]: So what you're saying is we have to trust the integrity of the examiner ultimately. 45:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, at the end of the day, it's examiner. 45:18 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how to construct the right postures. 45:20 [SPEAKER_04]: I may not cover all the elements of the crime or on my cousin, we at or not we at. 45:35 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
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