0:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey guys, welcome back to Fall Play. 0:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I have Jimmy here and we have a friend name of 0:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, everybody. 0:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Good to be back again with my buddy Shane. 0:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Chetties here. 0:42 [SPEAKER_03]: So if you hear some little wimpers, that's going to be him. 0:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Our guest tonight, I say this every time. 0:49 [SPEAKER_03]: This is an incredible story. 0:51 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's one that you are not going to expect. 0:54 [SPEAKER_03]: and we are very fortunate one of my new besties Liz on the line and I'm going to tell you who she is. 1:02 [SPEAKER_03]: She is one of the medical assistants that worked for Dr. Christian Richter. 1:09 [SPEAKER_03]: And if you saw the keepers, you know who that man is. 1:13 [SPEAKER_03]: So with that, we're going to say hi to Liz. 1:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Hey Liz. 1:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, how are you, Gemma? 1:19 [SPEAKER_03]: We're good. 1:20 [SPEAKER_03]: And Shane, he has the first question. 1:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Alright, Liz, could you tell us about what your education is in your medical background? 1:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I went to Catholic school most of my life, went to Cappacay. 1:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm there, Ken Wood, and then I started to go to school over at St. Jones. 1:38 [SPEAKER_03]: They had a nursing program over there, and anyhow, I ended up somehow mixed within there, and I ended up working through family, through Dr. Richter. 1:47 [SPEAKER_03]: My mother was a patient of Dr. Richter's. 1:50 [SPEAKER_03]: He was a partner with Dr. Nell at the time. 1:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And then one of my sisters ended up working for Dr. Nell and I ended up with Dr. Richter. 2:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even really, if I look back, I can't remember how I even got into that practice. 2:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I just fell into it. 2:08 [SPEAKER_03]: That actually leads right into the question I have. 2:11 [SPEAKER_03]: When and where did you work for Dr. Richter? 2:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I started with Dr. Richter off of Philadelphia Road. 2:18 [SPEAKER_03]: This is Chesapego office. 2:20 [SPEAKER_03]: And Chesapego Avenue. 2:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And Baltimore County was Chesapego Avenue. 2:24 [SPEAKER_03]: I saw it off here at the corner. 2:25 [SPEAKER_03]: It looked like a big pharmacy. 2:27 [SPEAKER_03]: And in the basement of the pharmacy was a doctorate's practice. 2:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was primary care, the OB-GYN. 2:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I believe there was even a dermatologist there, if I remember right, and psychiatrists there as well. 2:42 [SPEAKER_03]: And Dr. Richter was in practice with Dr. Nell and something had happened between the two of them. 2:47 [SPEAKER_03]: can't tell you. 2:47 [SPEAKER_03]: No one's ever spoken of it. 2:50 [SPEAKER_03]: I have no idea what the history is between a two of them, but they were extremely close and they split up the practice. 2:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Dr. Richter worked on one side of the building. 2:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Dr. Now worked on the other side of the building. 3:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Never spoke. 3:03 [SPEAKER_03]: And then after that, he ended up opening the office out in Towson out at St. 3:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Chose and the professional building. 3:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So when you worked for him, was it a hospital or in his office? 3:15 [SPEAKER_03]: It was in his office. 3:17 [SPEAKER_03]: First it just to go, then it St. 3:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Chose and the professional building down. 3:21 [SPEAKER_03]: It was down the hill from the hospital. 3:23 [SPEAKER_03]: The red brick building. 3:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I want to clarify for our listeners what Liz is referring to as St. Joseph's Hospital. 3:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And if you all remember, we've done some podcasts with folks who went to St. Joseph's Hospital and had surgical procedures done by Richter, which were 3:43 [SPEAKER_03]: logged on insurance documents as DNC's, but we're actually illegal versions. 3:50 [SPEAKER_03]: So while Liz is working in his office, he had admitting rights to St. Joseph's hospital, which was like right next door. 3:57 [SPEAKER_03]: You just walk out your shoe or right. 4:00 [SPEAKER_03]: That's correct. 4:00 [SPEAKER_03]: You could go literally walk right up the hill into the hospital. 4:03 [SPEAKER_03]: It was very convenient for them because they could be at the hospital within moments literally. 4:12 [SPEAKER_03]: besides checking patients and pulling charts, typing doctor's notes, things like that, I would assist the doctor in the back office because it was a GYN office, OBGYN. 4:23 [SPEAKER_03]: By law, you had to have an assistant in the room with them. 4:27 [SPEAKER_03]: The doctor spoke to the patient in the room as long as the patient was clothed. 4:33 [SPEAKER_03]: But as soon as you stepped out and told them to undress at that point, the doctor could not go back in the room without an assistant and the assistant stayed the whole time until he walked out of the room. 4:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, when we tricked over the last year, I guess, Liz, you told me that he had a very unusual office layout, not only did he have offices on the floor where you would enter, but he had special private office. 5:01 [SPEAKER_03]: The doctor's office itself was a normal blame. 5:05 [SPEAKER_03]: What was unusual about it was exactly what was on the floor that the patients were seeing was an exact replica underneath of that no one used. 5:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And how would somebody enter that basin? 5:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Was it below ground? 5:20 [SPEAKER_03]: You would get, it was below ground. 5:22 [SPEAKER_03]: So you would come into a few payment of the front building. 5:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to, so as my as a picture, as you would come through the front office. 5:31 [SPEAKER_03]: So if you came in on the trying to think it was like a longer building, if you came in on the one side of the building, you came in on the first floor, if you came on the opposite side of the building, you came in on the second floor. 5:45 [SPEAKER_03]: we were on the first came in. 5:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to remember it was one office trying to think which doctor's office was we were like the third office down if I remember correctly. 5:55 [SPEAKER_03]: But right next to past our door the next door. 5:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Damn was a door that opened that had a staircase to the upstairs but it also had a staircase to the downstairs. 6:06 [SPEAKER_03]: It was like a hallway staircase like if you were in 6:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And any kind of building, you know, the back, you know, like on the skateboard on this and the stairway would go downstairs and it dropped dead and it at a door that had no nothing on it, it strictly opened by key. 6:23 [SPEAKER_03]: There was no office. 6:24 [SPEAKER_03]: So when you opened it, it was a complete replica of upstairs. 6:27 [SPEAKER_03]: interesting now is Richter the only one that used that suite of offices downstairs. 6:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, he was in a group of practices. 6:35 [SPEAKER_03]: It was him, Dr. Furman Barado, Dr. Adelma Varanya, who I believe they're all retired at this point. 6:42 [SPEAKER_03]: There was also a couple other doctors periodically through the years that I had been there that they had bought in. 6:48 [SPEAKER_03]: But at the time, the Dr. Richter was there. 6:51 [SPEAKER_03]: He had joined and came into practice with Dr. Barado and Dr. Maragna. 6:54 [SPEAKER_02]: There's one where some of the incidents that you witnessed in the office that made you feel uncomfortable. 7:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't like the idea that when he would go into the office, you would talk to the young woman, which was normal. 7:05 [SPEAKER_03]: He would come out and when we would go back in when the patients were head on dress, put the gowns when we'd go to go in and he would say, that's who cat don't need you. 7:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I'd be taking back because I thought that's wrong. 7:20 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was extremely stupid and very naive that I didn't give a patient the thought, I was worried about the doctor. 7:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I was very naive at the time, because I thought, oh my God, I could as I addressed it to our office manager at the time. 7:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And I said, well, she's going to get big trouble. 7:37 [SPEAKER_03]: He can't do that. 7:38 [SPEAKER_03]: It really bothered me, because I thought, 7:41 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, what if those women said he did something to them, I never thought about the patient. 7:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought I protected my the doctor. 7:50 [SPEAKER_03]: I was very upset because I thought something he could really in big trouble. 7:53 [SPEAKER_03]: He could lose his license and I addressed him and at the point when I went to the office manager, I got told my my own business. 8:00 [SPEAKER_03]: He quieted my my own business and it wasn't the first time I did it on many occasions and I was put in my place very quickly. 8:10 [SPEAKER_03]: and talking at the dinner table about how upset I had been that I knew that was wrong. 8:16 [SPEAKER_03]: But back in that day, what did you do? 8:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing. 8:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Other medical assistants worked in that office. 8:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Liz, each doctor had her own medical assistant. 8:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Each doctor, Richter, had his own, Dr. Moran, you would have his own, Dr. Brett, I would have had their own week with chair back before it could have been any one of us. 8:34 [SPEAKER_03]: It was three or four of us at the time. 8:36 [SPEAKER_03]: But normally, we would say I was with Dr. Moranya and with Dr. Richter. 8:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Another one would be with Dr. Breton. 8:43 [SPEAKER_03]: We could switch on and off. 8:44 [SPEAKER_03]: But never not once did that occurrence ever happen with the other physicians. 8:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Only Dr. Richter. 8:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you remember if any of the other medical assistants witnessed or were told to leave the room? 8:54 [SPEAKER_03]: If they did, no one said a word. 8:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And you said that you went to the office manager, correct? 9:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, ma'am. 9:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Can you name names? 9:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Lee Monroe. 9:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 9:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And so what does an office manager do she was one that overlooked us girls kept everybody online and made sure I guess the books for taking care of and whatever needed to be taking to girls. 9:17 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what she did. 9:18 [SPEAKER_01]: life can get overwhelming, and talking to someone can make all the difference. 9:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 9:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and as little as a couple of days, you can connect by message, phone, or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 9:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And if the first therapist 9:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Better help include a journal for personal reflection in daily 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very odd. 10:52 [SPEAKER_03]: And we were all a little bit put out. 10:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Why wasn't one of us? 10:55 [SPEAKER_03]: We had the seniority in. 10:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Who was this that just came in? 10:59 [SPEAKER_03]: But Dr. Richard, her were very, very close, very close. 11:02 [SPEAKER_03]: What do you mean? 11:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Give me an example. 11:04 [SPEAKER_03]: They just would meeting together and closed roomed, meeting, and closed roomed. 11:09 [SPEAKER_03]: But of course, they were talking about the practice. 11:11 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure, who knows? 11:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's put it this way. 11:15 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot more friendlier than the rest of us all were. 11:18 [SPEAKER_03]: You talked to me about other adults that came in to the office that were not there for treat. 11:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Did he was a strictly OBGYN, did he treat? 11:30 [SPEAKER_03]: He was OBGYN, but he had retired from the OB part. 11:33 [SPEAKER_03]: So he was strictly towards the end. 11:35 [SPEAKER_03]: He was doing 2YN up until retirement. 11:37 [SPEAKER_03]: So would he typically have male patients? 11:40 [SPEAKER_03]: No, never. 11:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 11:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Never. 11:43 [SPEAKER_03]: But gentleman would bring these young women in. 11:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Tell us about that. 11:48 [SPEAKER_03]: There were numerous men. 11:50 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember who they were. 11:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Couldn't tell you what they looked like. 11:53 [SPEAKER_03]: But I know they would bring a man. 11:55 [SPEAKER_03]: They would go back, talk, and then we would be dismissed. 11:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Or they were taking place after hours. 12:02 [SPEAKER_03]: mostly always after hours like at the end of the day he would come and say I have so and so coming in I have a friend coming in or he'd say a name or this usually a friend coming in and he'd say we don't need we've been hurry it up be cleaning and all he'd say I got it I got it 12:23 [SPEAKER_03]: So you would be typically cleaning up examining rooms and what else. 12:29 [SPEAKER_03]: I've realized everything. 12:30 [SPEAKER_03]: And he's telling you don't bother. 12:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I got it. 12:33 [SPEAKER_03]: You would say just hurry it up. 12:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Finish what you're doing and I'll lock up. 12:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 12:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you witness the girls coming in? 12:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Several occasions. 12:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's what upset me. 12:44 [SPEAKER_03]: And 12:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you remember anything about them? 12:46 [SPEAKER_03]: They're behavior or how they acted or what it was like. 12:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you see them leave it? 12:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I would be hard to say how they acted. 12:56 [SPEAKER_03]: I just know. 12:58 [SPEAKER_03]: They were very quiet, never spoke with ages. 13:02 [SPEAKER_03]: They were very young. 13:04 [SPEAKER_03]: They were very young. 13:05 [SPEAKER_03]: I always just assumed that was very naive and thought they must be counseling them. 13:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Because back then, birth control was very kind of abou kind of thing. 13:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And right, I just thought they were being counseled. 13:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Or that's what I was led to believe. 13:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I ripped her by Dr. Rick and it's whoever it was bringing them in. 13:24 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if they were bringing them in. 13:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I just know it was men, but there were several occasions, peace came in. 13:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, tell us about that. 13:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't know if they were, don't remember. 13:34 [SPEAKER_03]: All I know is there were two priests that would bring them in, the girls in. 13:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Then I thought it was very odd. 13:40 [SPEAKER_03]: During the day or evening, it was usually always in the evening right before we were closing, or he would say they were coming in and they would get in and we would say, Dr. 13:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Brick, they'll be right in, be with you, Dr. 13:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Brick, they'll come in and we dismiss us. 13:55 [SPEAKER_03]: You said there were two priests. 13:57 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not going to ask you if you recognize either one of them. 14:01 [SPEAKER_03]: I would be able to recognize them in a lot and never made years. 14:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Did they check the end? 14:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Did they check in at the desk? 14:08 [SPEAKER_03]: What did they come in through the office or through the whole way outside? 14:13 [SPEAKER_03]: They came in through the front. 14:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but on several occasions, Dr. Rickard would motion for them, which I do remember that he would motion for them to go back out in hallway, come around and come down the other doors to come down the staircase. 14:27 [SPEAKER_03]: And that was really strange, as we never used that office sound serfs. 14:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's where they were going. 14:35 [SPEAKER_03]: There was no place else to go. 14:36 [SPEAKER_03]: When that went down, that's there was the only office down there. 14:39 [SPEAKER_03]: There was no other office down there, but ours. 14:41 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was a complete duplicate of what was upstairs. 14:44 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what was okay. 14:45 [SPEAKER_03]: So procedure, minor procedures could be done there. 14:49 [SPEAKER_03]: You could on an occasion and I could count in all the years I worked there. 14:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I could count on one hand. 14:56 [SPEAKER_03]: How many times the other physician chose to that I knew of that I knew what. 15:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Liz, what are some surgical procedures that might occur typically in an any kind of collogical office? 15:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, besides did you weigh an exam or no B exam? 15:13 [SPEAKER_03]: The DNC could be done. 15:14 [SPEAKER_03]: They had a suction machine there. 15:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 15:16 [SPEAKER_03]: They could do cryosurgery, ostabees. 15:21 [SPEAKER_03]: What are the SIopsies? 15:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Capasca be as for someone if you had, they were taking biopsies from the cervix because you had an abnormal pap smear. 15:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, cryo surgery was a procedure that was if you had when the biopsies would come back to the show. 15:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever the diagnosis was, they could treat that with cryo surgery, which was freezing of the cervix. 15:42 [SPEAKER_03]: To kill the cells, they would die off and regrow and you have good cells again. 15:47 [SPEAKER_03]: We also then later one started doing an intruder and 15:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, I'm at God in this last track. 15:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And I do do. 15:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, we always feel it, but I do days in. 15:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm going to do. 15:57 [SPEAKER_03]: I do. 15:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Excuse me. 16:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Some people just crashed. 16:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you mind? 16:04 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm loving first. 16:05 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't. 16:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Eight. 16:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 16:09 [SPEAKER_03]: That just crashed. 16:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I thought I'd gloss break it. 16:13 [SPEAKER_03]: It's sure did. 16:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was very loved. 16:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Often. 16:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I can't see you're out where or what, but we all heard the glass shatter. 16:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely done. 16:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 16:30 [SPEAKER_03]: That's a little scary, isn't it? 16:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Because it's short of sound like glass shattering. 16:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And there's no glass anywhere. 16:37 [SPEAKER_03]: That is creepy. 16:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't find anything. 16:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm looking at everything and there's nothing. 16:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Trip, it's not somebody turning over in their grave. 16:46 [SPEAKER_03]: May I let you because you're talking about him? 16:49 [SPEAKER_03]: It's weird. 16:50 [SPEAKER_03]: You were talking about some of the surgeries that are typical for a GYN. 16:57 [SPEAKER_03]: A DNC, we know that it's St. Joseph. 17:00 [SPEAKER_03]: There were some DNCs that were actually abortions. 17:05 [SPEAKER_03]: and in Catholic hospitals, abortions are not permitted. 17:09 [SPEAKER_03]: So is it your gut feeling that Richter was performing some illegal abortions? 17:16 [SPEAKER_03]: But I tell you, by new, yes or no, I have to say, I have no idea. 17:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 17:21 [SPEAKER_03]: But I will tell you, I was always uncomfortable about some of the things he did. 17:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Always very uncomfortable. 17:29 [SPEAKER_03]: or it made me feel uncomfortable. 17:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And then when I saw the keepers, my sisters called me right away, because we all worked within the practice. 17:40 [SPEAKER_03]: One was a doctor now, and then another one was at the Jessica office. 17:44 [SPEAKER_03]: So we all knew Dr. Richter. 17:45 [SPEAKER_03]: He was like family to us. 17:46 [SPEAKER_03]: He was literally like a father to all of us. 17:49 [SPEAKER_03]: When we heard it, we turned it on. 17:51 [SPEAKER_03]: And after we saw it, I thought I would be sick. 17:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And my sister called me and she said, all of us were talking together. 17:59 [SPEAKER_03]: She said, what do you think? 18:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you think he could have done it? 18:02 [SPEAKER_03]: And I, for the first time out of my mouth said, absolutely. 18:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely. 18:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And my gut said, absolutely. 18:08 [SPEAKER_03]: And it made me sick to say that. 18:11 [SPEAKER_03]: And I said that my sister, the other 18:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't believe that he could have done anything like that. 18:16 [SPEAKER_03]: There's no way. 18:17 [SPEAKER_03]: There's no way. 18:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And I said, do you really think and the other sister I said, what do you think that you said? 18:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I hate to say this, but yeah, you'll I'll never say that to anyone that if it matters, but yeah, I do believe it. 18:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Did he ever ask you when he was examining a woman to leave the room? 18:34 [SPEAKER_03]: If it was during regular hours and you were assisting him and you were in there, no, he would never ask us to leave. 18:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, he never asked you to leave. 18:43 [SPEAKER_03]: No, that's what was so odd about it. 18:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And this didn't happen once or twice. 18:47 [SPEAKER_03]: It was like a routine thing for a while. 18:49 [SPEAKER_03]: You mean after hours after hours and stuff or on days when we didn't have hours later in the day or after he had retired. 18:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, tell us about that. 19:00 [SPEAKER_03]: He had retired. 19:01 [SPEAKER_03]: He retired. 19:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I was, and I know exactly when he retired because I was in his retirement party and it was the day my oldest son was due is due date, which we passed. 19:12 [SPEAKER_03]: But that was July 12, 1986. 19:15 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's when he retired and he was still seeing random patients, only random ones after the retirement and that went on for a long while until I left. 19:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Were they paying for the appointment? 19:31 [SPEAKER_03]: They weren't on the books. 19:32 [SPEAKER_03]: There was no paper tree. 19:34 [SPEAKER_03]: They were not on the books. 19:35 [SPEAKER_03]: No paper tree. 19:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Not on the books. 19:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And normally, we would have had office notes to type up because every other doctor we had to type, every office meant. 19:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Liz, did you ever interact with any of the younger women either on their way out or on their way in? 19:50 [SPEAKER_03]: You gotta remember, he would dismiss us. 19:52 [SPEAKER_03]: So we would easily go on by then. 19:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 19:55 [SPEAKER_03]: But do you ever remember seeing any of them leave like groggy or upset? 20:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely, when they left. 20:02 [SPEAKER_03]: A quiet, it was very odd. 20:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Didn't make eye contact, didn't speak almost like a shamed or embarrassed kind of looked if someone was a shamed or embarrassed they'd order head down. 20:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And that it was no small talk, no talk whatsoever. 20:17 [SPEAKER_03]: It was as if they were rushed in, rushed out. 20:24 [SPEAKER_03]: for somebody to be in there, then have some procedure. 20:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I'd be there for a while. 20:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Keep in mind, that's the design. 20:31 [SPEAKER_03]: It would be at the end. 20:32 [SPEAKER_03]: He would say, you girls can leave. 20:34 [SPEAKER_03]: He wanted to make sure we were out the door and locked. 20:37 [SPEAKER_03]: We were out. 20:38 [SPEAKER_03]: After I spoke with you, I spoke with some of the women who were taken to his office. 20:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And you had given me enough information that I could share with them, what you shared with me. 20:54 [SPEAKER_03]: She might have wanted to talk to you about this, but she was a student nurse at the time. 20:59 [SPEAKER_03]: She emailed me and said she would like the talk, and I never heard any more from her. 21:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 21:04 [SPEAKER_03]: We're not going to use her name, but she shared with me that she was a student nurse at St. Joe's. 21:17 [SPEAKER_03]: teenagers in, and she looked at their chart and it said that it was being billed as a DNC, which would be for abnormal bleeding. 21:26 [SPEAKER_03]: You would never use it because that was against policy. 21:30 [SPEAKER_03]: And she noticed when the records that they were all from Archbishop Gio, and he signed them all in, they were in two of the goals next to each other, three of them, and he took them home 21:47 [SPEAKER_03]: What would that mean to you? 21:48 [SPEAKER_03]: She believes that they were there for abortions. 21:52 [SPEAKER_03]: And she said that Richter was off in there late at night. 21:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And the Joseph Moscow was around the hospital a lot. 22:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody knew he and he was real friendly with the nurses and everybody just, but she said she just freaked out. 22:07 [SPEAKER_03]: She went to her supervisor. 22:09 [SPEAKER_03]: who said, don't worry about it. 22:12 [SPEAKER_03]: And the next day, she was taken all set, Paul. 22:15 [SPEAKER_03]: And the was just another unit. 22:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 22:19 [SPEAKER_03]: The head of nursing, how to meeting with her and told her that she didn't think that she should become a nurse, that she wasn't make sit for it. 22:28 [SPEAKER_03]: So I believe that she caught him and these three young girls. 22:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And we don't know why they were 22:39 [SPEAKER_03]: And if all the sexual abuse was happening, those could have been his children that those girls were carrying. 22:48 [SPEAKER_03]: But this friend said that she said, I'm not leaving nursing, so get over that. 22:54 [SPEAKER_03]: She stuck it out and she was going to be in the capers and she was filmed but she decided afterwards that because of her career it probably wasn't a good idea because she was still working in nurse. 23:08 [SPEAKER_03]: She's very good but she said she'll never forget looking at those records saying that they were brought in by Joseph Maskell and they were from Archbishop K.O. 23:18 [SPEAKER_03]: High School. 23:19 [SPEAKER_03]: and he brought him in around 11 and took them home around two, took their parents that were running around on the streets after a dance. 23:31 [SPEAKER_03]: He had a lot of ways to manipulate a lot of influence, get a lot of dislodged. 23:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Being a priest, you got to remember back then. 23:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Being a priest is not like being a priest now. 23:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, being a priest back then was that was as close to God as you could get. 23:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And her question, you never asked, you looked up to those people. 23:52 [SPEAKER_03]: You looked up and respected them. 23:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And if no matter what they said, you believe, that's just what that's just the way it was. 24:00 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's the same way it used to be about the doctor. 24:02 [SPEAKER_03]: She never questioned them either. 24:03 [SPEAKER_03]: If they said you needed something, you would go home and question it, but you would never say it to them. 24:09 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to ask the next question. 24:11 [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to change track a little bit and then Shane will finish up with the others. 24:15 [SPEAKER_03]: But you and I talked a while ago about the likelihood that he may have been a handler for the CIA MK Ultra mind control. 24:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Trogram, and our listeners will remember that we had a guest, her name was Lynn Sharmer, and she recognized Richter in those he capers as her handler, and that he used a portable shock treatment box when some patients. 24:42 [SPEAKER_03]: And when I asked you about that, you described for me without knowing what the box she talked about. 24:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Look, like you described for me a box that he kept in his downstairs office on the shelf behind his desk. 24:58 [SPEAKER_03]: First off, I had never even heard of this MK alterant until you said something to me about it. 25:03 [SPEAKER_03]: And that was after you had asked me to describe their offices how it was laid out and all right. 25:09 [SPEAKER_03]: And Dr. Richter was someone who loved old, like, vintage, the absolute, the lesser's items. 25:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly. 25:18 [SPEAKER_03]: That would be in the medical field. 25:19 [SPEAKER_03]: That was in the OB-GYN field. 25:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And when I described the office and all their back office, the doctors would share the main office. 25:27 [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, Dr. Richter had downstairs as well. 25:29 [SPEAKER_03]: But on the upstairs and all, and there was something you had asked me in, 25:37 [SPEAKER_03]: almost like the back of my hand. 25:39 [SPEAKER_03]: But I also remembered feeling how sick I was because I was so upset that day that I found out because I thought all this time I was protecting him and I never gave these young girls even a thought and it made me sick. 25:54 [SPEAKER_03]: It still makes me sick because I was so stupid naive that I never thought to open my mouth and protect anyone. 26:02 [SPEAKER_03]: All I could think of was protecting his professional, his license himself because he was a very prominent man. 26:09 [SPEAKER_03]: And 26:10 [SPEAKER_03]: because very wrong in every way now and I can't believe I did that. 26:14 [SPEAKER_03]: But when you had asked me to describe the office, he had benched different things on the shelves, different books, the PDRs and stuff. 26:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And when I got to what was sitting, he had it on the back. 26:26 [SPEAKER_03]: If you were to go on this office, huge beautiful ornament desk that sat big desk behind him was like a bookcase. 26:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And it had shelves on it, big beautiful bookcase. 26:36 [SPEAKER_03]: And it would sit in the back what look like an old vintage EKG machine, a portable EKG machine. 26:44 [SPEAKER_03]: And you had asked me, could I describe it? 26:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And when I remember seeing it, it literally looked like it was a case to open to this black. 26:52 [SPEAKER_03]: you can take it with you as portable. 26:54 [SPEAKER_03]: And it looked like something that would be hooked up as it's for an EKG. 26:58 [SPEAKER_03]: With an EKG, that would be to check the heart, the rhythm of the heart. 27:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we would go on different things. 27:04 [SPEAKER_03]: We'd go on different parts of the body. 27:06 [SPEAKER_03]: We would hook it up. 27:07 [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought that's really cool looking. 27:09 [SPEAKER_03]: And I love looking at the vintage things. 27:11 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why I remembered it. 27:12 [SPEAKER_03]: And you said, can you describe it a little bit more? 27:15 [SPEAKER_03]: And when I did, that's what afterwards you had told me what you had just said. 27:20 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a very first time I ever heard of it. 27:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was portable. 27:23 [SPEAKER_03]: He could to any would take it down. 27:25 [SPEAKER_03]: And it would be down when he was downstairs. 27:28 [SPEAKER_03]: It would be. 27:28 [SPEAKER_03]: So it was something that was moved. 27:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Then I remember seeing it moved. 27:32 [SPEAKER_03]: did I ever know what it was? 27:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I never in a billion years thought it was actually used. 27:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was something that he had, there's an old vintage piece of machinery, medical machinery that he had purchased somewhere. 27:43 [SPEAKER_03]: And it may be, it's just that it's such a coincidence that it matches exactly what Lynn told us. 27:50 [SPEAKER_03]: He knew it was as a shop, treatment, and her. 27:53 [SPEAKER_03]: in a medical theater where scientists, doctors and politicians would be sitting in like a medical theater, she was trafficked to NASA in Huntsville and she said that's where she remembered him taking her. 28:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Did he travel much? 28:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Dr. Richter, travel ball the time. 28:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely. 28:16 [SPEAKER_03]: For business pleasure, what? 28:20 [SPEAKER_03]: He just traveled a lot. 28:21 [SPEAKER_03]: He also belonged to a club. 28:25 [SPEAKER_03]: What was it? 28:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Want to say like the mason's or something? 28:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember what it was, really. 28:29 [SPEAKER_03]: And date along to a yacht club, a big yacht. 28:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll be at a big boat. 28:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you remember the name of the boat? 28:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Now I don't unless it was Charlie he had a daughter Charlotte, but coincidental then I found out after all the keepers when my sisters and my mom and I were poppy, you know, I don't know what this means and all but what we found was very odd and my mom had said about his first marriage. 28:55 [SPEAKER_03]: They she always thought it was very odd. 28:58 [SPEAKER_03]: But his first marriage, and I believe and don't quote me, but for some reason, I want to say I think her name was Arma, and she just died and that was like, you never heard how she wasn't sick. 29:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing. 29:12 [SPEAKER_03]: She just died when you worked for him as a married girl and she died and then she goes years later, he met someone else, current. 29:21 [SPEAKER_03]: I remember her name was Perrin and he had a daughter 29:25 [SPEAKER_03]: But somebody told me somewhere that he had a son that I don't remember. 29:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what years did you work for him, Les? 29:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Say 80, 18, 182. 29:36 [SPEAKER_03]: He was me. 29:40 [SPEAKER_03]: That's okay. 29:40 [SPEAKER_03]: My dog here's hearing your dog. 29:43 [SPEAKER_03]: That's funny. 29:44 [SPEAKER_03]: So would you estimate about how many years you worked for him? 29:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, over 10. 29:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, really. 29:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 29:52 [SPEAKER_03]: So starting in 80's from 80, 18, 18, 22, somewhere around there. 29:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I met him with through, like I said, through the family. 30:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Remember the candy straight personal. 30:03 [SPEAKER_03]: We had did all that. 30:04 [SPEAKER_03]: I did that at your German hospital, which no longer even exist 30:11 [SPEAKER_03]: through family members ended up at the Chesapeakel office with Dr. Richter. 30:16 [SPEAKER_03]: So did you retire after 10 years or did you go somewhere else? 30:21 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I ended up doctorate by then Dr. Richter had retired. 30:24 [SPEAKER_03]: I was married with seven children. 30:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I stayed with Dr. Moranya and Dr. Brett for quite a few years. 30:30 [SPEAKER_03]: And then Dr. Brett and Dr. Moranya had bought another Dr. and Dr. Molina Raul Molina. 30:36 [SPEAKER_03]: He stayed for a little bit, don't know about how long and then he left to went back home. 30:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Then Dr. Brett and Dr. Moranya had split up something it happened between the two at them. 30:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't know, we always joke, they got a divorce jokingly. 30:51 [SPEAKER_03]: And some of the staff went with Dr. Brett and I went with Dr. Moranya. 30:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Are any of those doctors still living? 30:57 [SPEAKER_03]: No, Marania or Beretta? 31:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they are. 31:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Dr. Berani is retired. 31:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Dr. Furman Beretta. 31:04 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if he's still in practice or not, but he was up in mercy at the last time. 31:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Herk. 31:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Shane, I'm going to turn it over to you. 31:10 [SPEAKER_03]: There was a two other questions we have and anything else you want to ask. 31:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but as first, I want to know what your first impression of Dr. Richter was and did that change over time. 31:21 [SPEAKER_03]: My impression at Georgia was he was amazing. 31:23 [SPEAKER_03]: He was amazing. 31:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I looked up to him. 31:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I completely looked up to him, when you worked with him, it was as if he not only would train you as in to be an assistant with him, she even trained you the way you spoke, for instance, I would say certain words and he'd say, yeah, we're not going to talk like that. 31:44 [SPEAKER_03]: He wanted you to talk very articulate articulate articulate, demanded it. 31:52 [SPEAKER_03]: He used to joke all the time. 31:54 [SPEAKER_03]: He was going to beat not to my head to teach. 31:56 [SPEAKER_03]: We had to speak articulate. 31:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, we were very naive. 32:00 [SPEAKER_03]: We were Catholic girls ourselves. 32:03 [SPEAKER_03]: We were all Catholic girls and all of us. 32:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And we grew up with the beliefs that he was also. 32:09 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why like I said, I feel sick to my stomach to think that I knew something was wrong. 32:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I knew it was wrong. 32:17 [SPEAKER_03]: There were things he was doing that was wrong, and I would take it to their attention, and I was always told to mind my own business to be quiet. 32:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't say a word, mind your own business, everything is fine what he's doing. 32:30 [SPEAKER_03]: You worry about you and no worry about him. 32:32 [SPEAKER_03]: and I used to get so upset, I go, and you don't understand, you know, he's gonna kick up loose his license. 32:39 [SPEAKER_03]: I was so naive that it never crossed my mind, not even once did it cross my mind to what is happening to the girl in there. 32:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Just didn't cross my own mind. 32:50 [SPEAKER_03]: My opinion on the BIM never changed until I heard the keepers. 32:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And when I heard the keepers, I was crushed because I felt like everything that I thought 33:03 [SPEAKER_03]: made sense. 33:05 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought these things, but I thought it was me. 33:09 [SPEAKER_03]: I was being bad, being wrong, to think these things. 33:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Me, while when I heard it out loud, it was like, my God, he did. 33:18 [SPEAKER_03]: He did. 33:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was sick. 33:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I was sick. 33:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Let me tell you something. 33:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Gemma to this day, that's why I have put you off and put you so off for so long. 33:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I have put talking to you guys about this because I feel horrible talking about it. 33:37 [SPEAKER_03]: It makes me sick to talk about it. 33:39 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I shame on me. 33:42 [SPEAKER_03]: that I could have stopped some of this, and I was too stupid to know it, and it's really hard to accept. 33:49 [SPEAKER_03]: If this makes you feel any better Liz, you were being manipulated, too. 33:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And he was a psychopath, and it sounds like a pedophile, and that's part of the grooming. 34:03 [SPEAKER_03]: all that talk about him doing nougies on your head and kidding around and all that is part of the picture of somebody who is psychopathic and is taking advantage of the good people and he left you with that guilt. 34:22 [SPEAKER_03]: You did the right thing and I want our listeners to know that because you and I talked, you did go ahead and report all of this to our attorney general in a long time almost a year I think and I am blessed to know you Liz because I think you're an amazing person and what happened was not your fault. 34:45 [SPEAKER_03]: So please, but it was wrong, it was wrong. 34:48 [SPEAKER_03]: But you didn't know that you were being manipulated. 34:51 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what these people do. 34:54 [SPEAKER_03]: They take the good people in their lives and they make them feel bad or guilty. 35:01 [SPEAKER_03]: or less than what they are, you did the right thing, you reported it, and now you've reported it to the state's attorney. 35:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And your report to him, Richard Wolff, is going to go very far in taking down this whole pedophile ring that existed, and the clergy was part of it. 35:24 [SPEAKER_03]: And I would bet my retirement money, and I know I should make assumptions. 35:29 [SPEAKER_03]: I get knocked for speculating. 35:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I would bet my retirement money that one of the priests brought those girls in was Joseph Maskel. 35:37 [SPEAKER_03]: And you would have no reason to recognize him. 35:40 [SPEAKER_03]: He was like totally a non memorable looking dude. 35:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Would I say that could have been him? 35:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, only because I had the picture of him in my mind now. 35:50 [SPEAKER_03]: It's great. 35:51 [SPEAKER_03]: but he never signed in, he never wrote his name on it. 35:54 [SPEAKER_03]: They were nice, they were desperate, they were desperate. 35:58 [SPEAKER_03]: It was wrong, it was wrong, but so many ways it was wrong. 36:02 [SPEAKER_03]: The other thing is that by not allowing a medical assistant to help in that room, when those girls were there, that pre-dented any of those girls from asking you for help. 36:15 [SPEAKER_03]: because Mascol was in Teresa Lancaster is told us that he was in the room where he wasn't in the room with them, with them, while they were being examined. 36:27 [SPEAKER_03]: And said to Teresa, she didn't know how to put her feet in the stirrux. 36:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Richter said, we have a new one here, we have a rickie here, see if you can help her with that. 36:36 [SPEAKER_03]: You never know what would have happened if he had allowed any of you to be in there. 36:40 [SPEAKER_03]: And you're not the only medical assistant that I'd talk to. 36:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Another one told me he was so weird, she laughed almost immediately, that he went through a lot of assistance in different offices, and that they didn't last long, and he was asked the names of the people that worked for him, and he said there were so many you couldn't remember. 37:02 [SPEAKER_03]: So please do not beat yourself up over this. 37:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And just to add a little bit to that was, I think knowing Dr. Richter and Father Maskswell's reign, if you would have reported that, that could have ruined your entire career at that point. 37:21 [SPEAKER_02]: They were very strong connected group of people. 37:24 [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't think anyone listening will fall to you. 37:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people will see you as a very strong person who we're all thankful now is brave enough to speak out about it. 37:35 [SPEAKER_02]: And hopefully that will get more people the strength to speak out about it as well. 37:40 [SPEAKER_03]: When I decided to do this, I couldn't tell anybody that I was talking to you at this point because my sisters and my mom think that I should not. 37:51 [SPEAKER_03]: They believe that this should not be opened up. 37:54 [SPEAKER_03]: This can't a worm should not. 37:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Just don't get involved. 37:58 [SPEAKER_03]: But they know deep inside that it was wrong as well. 38:04 [SPEAKER_02]: As I'd like to ask you, do you have any advice for anyone who might be listening who may have had a traumatic experience with Dr. Richter? 38:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Wasn't their fault? 38:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Tated nothing wrong? 38:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I stood there and watched and didn't know I was doing anything wrong. 38:21 [SPEAKER_03]: So my God, they did nothing wrong, to forever because, and where are the guilty ones not them? 38:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Where are the guilty party? 38:31 [SPEAKER_03]: They're not. 38:33 [SPEAKER_03]: makes me sad. 38:35 [SPEAKER_03]: So sad, those girls did nothing wrong. 38:39 [SPEAKER_03]: They did exactly what I did. 38:42 [SPEAKER_03]: And we grew up don't say anything. 38:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, those wrong, all things, they did nothing wrong. 38:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Please don't ever let them, they need to let that go off their back. 38:55 [SPEAKER_03]: They need to let it go because they can't carry guilt for that. 38:59 [SPEAKER_03]: You tell them you tell them as the truth, they can't carry guilt for that. 39:03 [SPEAKER_03]: They didn't do it. 39:05 [SPEAKER_03]: They were not in control of any of it. 39:08 [SPEAKER_03]: There was nothing they could do. 39:10 [SPEAKER_03]: I was the one that could have done something and couldn't do anything. 39:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't do anything. 39:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I tried. 39:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Those girls. 39:21 [SPEAKER_03]: And my artist broke for every single one of them. 39:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I went to a Catholic school. 39:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I could have been me. 39:28 [SPEAKER_03]: It could have been me. 39:29 [SPEAKER_03]: It could have been any one of my sisters. 39:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I have three sisters. 39:32 [SPEAKER_03]: It could have been any one of them. 39:34 [SPEAKER_03]: And they have to let it go. 39:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Because they didn't do any single thing wrong at all. 39:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing. 39:43 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm so sorry. 39:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And I asked them to forgive me for not trying harder. 39:50 [SPEAKER_03]: And I have to carry that and I tried. 39:56 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought I was, didn't know what I was doing. 39:59 [SPEAKER_03]: I was stupid. 40:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't over you. 40:02 [SPEAKER_03]: God, I was in my early 20s. 40:04 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even think I was 20, 21. 40:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Younger than sister cat, you know, we're stupid. 40:09 [SPEAKER_03]: We were taught how to act, how they taught us how to act, and how to be. 40:12 [SPEAKER_03]: And that was one of the things that Dr. Richter liked was because we were young. 40:16 [SPEAKER_03]: We had never worked anywhere else before. 40:19 [SPEAKER_03]: So you could train us the way he wanted us to be trained. 40:22 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what he did, but I knew it was wrong, but I knew it was wrong and I tried, but I didn't try hard enough. 41:05 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
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