0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Looking for a game that's fun, relaxing, and gives classic solitaire a fresh twist, solitaire clash, spelled CLASH, brings skill, speed, and strategy together in a way that makes every round feel rewarding. 0:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just solitaire as you know it, it's solitaire elevated, with competitive modes and even the chance to win real cash. 0:19 [SPEAKER_00]: In the middle of a busy day, it's more important than ever to carve out a moment for yourself, whether it's during a commute, while waiting for a ride or taking a quick pause to breathe. 0:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Solitaire Clash offers a simple satisfying escape. 0:32 [SPEAKER_00]: A couple fast rounds can calm your mind to challenge your focus and give you that little boost you didn't realize you needed. 0:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It's perfect for those in-between moments. 0:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Familiar enough to jump right in, but dynamic enough to keep things interesting. 0:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Each match is quick. 0:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Kill Driven, and packed with that just one more game feeling. 0:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So, if it's been a while, take a moment to open Solitaire Clash. 0:54 [SPEAKER_00]: CL-ASH, play a few rounds, unwind, and enjoy the fun. 0:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe even win a little while you're at it. 1:09 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching. 1:29 [SPEAKER_01]: the next question that I have for you. 1:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to set this up. 1:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I also explaining something that you probably are already aware of. 1:37 [SPEAKER_01]: When Jerry Cooper was in the keepers, it seems like there's a split down the middle between people who feel that Jerry was a victim. 1:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And also there is people who believe that Jerry may not have been fully truthful. 1:55 [SPEAKER_01]: One question that many listeners brought was because they saw the keepers of course as I hope everyone has who's listening. 2:02 [SPEAKER_01]: They felt that you seem to think that Jerry was possibly not telling the full truth. 2:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you still feel like that's the case or how has that changed? 2:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I certainly feel that way and I want to underline again, this is my opinion. 2:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what the ultimate reality is. 2:24 [SPEAKER_02]: I only know that when I interviewed him for two hours about all of this and what occurred on the night she vanished, he first told me that he had no close sexual relationship at all with Mr. Kathy. 2:41 [SPEAKER_02]: He told me that quote ours was a platonic relationship based on love of God and based on Catholic teaching, and I said fine, but I said, Father, I'm holding a letter that you receive and that the police recovered from Sister Kathy written a couple of days before her death. 3:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And in the letter, she says things like I want you inside me, my period came, I could only conclude then that he didn't tell me the truth. 3:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I said, wait a minute, doesn't that letters to just otherwise, my period came, he then told me, okay, I didn't tell you the truth, but it wasn't because I'm hiding anything. 3:30 [SPEAKER_02]: It was because I don't want reporters like you to subtly her name and drag her in the mud. 3:37 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the only reason I didn't tell the truth. 3:40 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not for any other reason whatsoever. 3:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I just, the gutter pressed and so on. 3:46 [SPEAKER_02]: As if I was interested in somehow painting a very test, good older picture of sexual activity. 3:59 [SPEAKER_02]: forcing him to lie because he knew I would spirit and make it all ugly and in fact I quoted from the letter that Detective Bud Romer had got from him and gave me a copy of. 4:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I had the actual letter was a photocopy, but it was the letter, the actual letter from the detective who had a pain 4:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I volunteered to show that we were friends, and that we were close, and I would be involved in Army Terror so far. 4:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I said fine. 4:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. 4:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Understood. 4:41 [SPEAKER_02]: But the fact is, he didn't tell me the truth. 4:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, I drove. 4:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I might be Irish, but even the Irish can understand he heard the old expression. 4:57 [SPEAKER_02]: If a man doesn't tell you the truth, I thought at the time, then you have to treat him as a liar. 5:05 [SPEAKER_02]: So in my opinion, he was absolutely untruthful about the circumstances surrounding all of this. 5:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Do I believe personally that he was present at the nun's killing? 5:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Or culpable? 5:18 [SPEAKER_02]: No. 5:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know exactly what went on in the series of steps that led up to the nun's death. 5:28 [SPEAKER_02]: But I can tell you, I can only quote, not me, but one of the great detectives of that day who worked for 30 years at the Baltimore in former county police department, told me later, and I quote, if Coold didn't do it, he knows who it is. 5:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that is an accurate statement, but it's only an opinion again. 5:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Do I think that all of the circumstances 5:58 [SPEAKER_02]: have been truthfully told by Clube and others, absolutely not. 6:03 [SPEAKER_02]: There's an area that makes no sense whatsoever. 6:07 [SPEAKER_02]: It's alluded to this way, flawed. 6:11 [SPEAKER_02]: No matter how you look at it, who claims he got a call in the evening, I don't know, ten o'clock, maybe, and that it was from Sister Helen, that she's just a cat these roommates. 6:26 [SPEAKER_02]: and that she was alarmed and agitated and said that Mr. Kathy had not returned from that shopping trip. 6:33 [SPEAKER_02]: It was now ten or so ten o'clock at night, and they were just to Helen was right. 6:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And immediately, he hooked to his friend, he and the two of them had fortunately they could account for their movements in all of this because they had gone to dinner 6:53 [SPEAKER_01]: specifically easy writer Jerry Cube and brother Pete eight dinner out one on the way to their movie the movie was from 8 p.m. to 940 they then returned to Cube's office by 1030 movies description of it surprised me because he didn't say oh he probably met a girlfriend from her college or something and 7:16 [SPEAKER_02]: There I was having a drink or something, and Ab and dinner, and I'm sure it'll be fine. 7:20 [SPEAKER_02]: He said, what? 7:22 [SPEAKER_02]: It's been a clock, and she's not home. 7:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's deep. 7:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Then with me to the car, we're driving up there immediately from anapolis where he lived at that visual community, Montreste, and they both raised up there supposedly. 7:38 [SPEAKER_02]: The Baltimore sun, the next morning after the nun was declared missing. 7:44 [SPEAKER_02]: interviews father Pete who says I was actually in the Christian brother's sister 50 miles away in Beltsville, Maryland, and when I heard I could jump in my car and race down there. 7:58 [SPEAKER_02]: It's possible that the crime reporter at the Sun got that wrong. 8:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to make any declaration, but it doesn't look too good. 8:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Usually these crime guys, I was one myself. 8:09 [SPEAKER_02]: framework for the really new parts to get all of the details because if he messes up too often and get the details wrong around nature crimes like this, he won't last very long at all. 8:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Now usually they're right on it. 8:23 [SPEAKER_02]: It is possible nonetheless that it was a slight error of some kind. 8:27 [SPEAKER_02]: But the fact is he reports one scenario, we've reports another, and then when they go to the 8:38 [SPEAKER_02]: They never do go up to the shopping center to look if you run out of gas. 8:43 [SPEAKER_02]: If you stick, it's something happened in the store and they had to take her to the hospital sick. 8:48 [SPEAKER_02]: They simply sit holding just your Helen's hand until they supposedly decide, oh dear, now it's so late, we better phone in a distant person's call and they call the Baltimore County Police and report that this woman, this nun, is missing. 9:06 [SPEAKER_01]: The missing person's report was made through the Baltimore City Police Department at 11.35 pm. 9:13 [SPEAKER_02]: And then they went to the more hours and then they go for a walk to come their nerves and what do they find? 9:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, that's their car right on the parking lot here. 9:24 [SPEAKER_02]: How can that be? 9:25 [SPEAKER_02]: If she's missing from the shopping center and some poor drunk or grunk, crazy, 9:32 [SPEAKER_02]: abducted her on her way out of the shopping center or something like that, why is her car in the parking lot? 9:40 [SPEAKER_02]: This becomes so ludicrous that years ago, L 12 years ago now, I asked the two detectives at the Baltimore County Police who had worked on this bold case for years, how does her car 9:59 [SPEAKER_02]: straightforward, without a flicker of humor, the street dog who abducted and probably raped and killed her, he needed a ride home, he only lived a few blocks away, probably. 10:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So we just drove the car back and dumped it and walked on home. 10:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I said to them, then, right before they threw me out, are you telling me that a killer drives 10:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Reparking with car on the parking lot and then one home from there. 10:34 [SPEAKER_01]: life can get overwhelming, and talking to someone can make all the difference. 10:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 10:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and as little as a couple of days, you can connect by message, phone, or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 10:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And if the first therapist 11:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Better help include a journal for personal 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directly involved at that moment in dispatching the nun. 12:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I will tell you this. 12:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think Father Master was either. 12:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I think they called and I'll give you, I think I've had a mention this before and I'll keep it short. 12:19 [SPEAKER_02]: In my experience of priest and the church and the way that world runs so on, those guys don't have the co-honies, you know the Spanish word, or the real down and dirty in your face, look out here I come. 12:34 [SPEAKER_02]: they get other people to do their dirty work. 12:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think Master would have had the courage this is a opinion to actually take somebody out and walk them in the head and tell them. 12:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I think though that they could pick up the phone at any time and stay, we got a real match here. 12:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And none is about to go public with this appears. 12:58 [SPEAKER_02]: There are high level politicians and there are police involved. 13:02 [SPEAKER_02]: it's a potential political scandal, as well as a police scandal, and, obviously, a church scandal, we need an enforcer. 13:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Get that toughest nail shop that is not afraid of anything on this planet with the big club, the comoverner, over here, and either threatening her into shutting up or knocking 13:32 [SPEAKER_02]: somebody was waiting for her right on that parking lot, the current his car and the car never really moved again. 13:39 [SPEAKER_02]: It's true it was found at an odd angle on the edge of the lot, but it clearly was that the last thing sister hell has ever said publicly and I have to clip in my office. 13:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, right before she sadly died, I think of Panther herself from years later, he said, just let me leave it with this. 14:01 [SPEAKER_02]: wanted it to be found. 14:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I find that to be a highly relevant and potentially revealing comment by her. 14:12 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'll in and end my answer to your question as best I can. 14:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Although I have no idea what to ask if Father Coo was involved in this whole sequence of events, I will not tell you this. 14:25 [SPEAKER_02]: I will quote Harry Bannon, and now just these detectives we died after a few years of retirement over on the Eastern Shore who told me point blank, and I knew the best way I can do it is to imitate your human being, you said, with that wonderful Eastern Shore 14:47 [SPEAKER_02]: boom was about to break. 14:49 [SPEAKER_02]: We had him. 14:50 [SPEAKER_02]: He was scared that he didn't know what the hell was going on. 14:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm telling you that panel is a frightened. 14:55 [SPEAKER_02]: He was crying some of the time and begging and trying to and I go home. 15:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to do this. 15:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And we knew his talk. 15:03 [SPEAKER_02]: He was 10 minutes maybe from 15:13 [SPEAKER_02]: The church lawyers showed up and they said, you're harassing one of our priests. 15:18 [SPEAKER_02]: If you keep it up, you're going to get in big trouble. 15:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Either charge food with a crime or let him go. 15:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And the chief of that day, part of the incredibly corrupt political machine, control of the entire city of Baltimore and the state of Maryland, by the way, that chief said, detectives. 15:44 [SPEAKER_02]: either charge him or let him go, you don't have enough of a charge right now. 15:48 [SPEAKER_02]: He's at the door in 10 minutes or you're in trouble. 15:51 [SPEAKER_02]: They let him go and then Harry van included just commentary to be by saying, if he didn't do it, he sure hell knows who did. 16:03 [SPEAKER_02]: When I put all of that together, 16:06 [SPEAKER_02]: All the reporting I've done and I've heard reports that who has said, oh, he's all wrong and he's got it wrong and it's reckless and whatever. 16:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I noticed that no one has come against me in a court of law, to suggest that my reporting was defamation. 16:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I did not intend defamation in any way. 16:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And I have set over and over again in my stories and interviews that done. 16:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know exactly what all of this was. 16:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I only know what I witnessed. 16:38 [SPEAKER_02]: He told me one thing, and it wasn't true. 16:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Harry Bannon told me that he knew damn what all of this was, and he got away without having to answer for any of it. 16:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And I take that to be the reality here, and I'll stand by it, and I am ready to go into any setting. 16:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Legal or otherwise, 17:00 [SPEAKER_02]: and defend my reporting. 17:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll always say this without getting a geotistical. 17:05 [SPEAKER_02]: So far, nobody has told me, there's just you got that wrong. 17:10 [SPEAKER_02]: It didn't happen at nine o'clock. 17:11 [SPEAKER_02]: It happened at eight o'clock, or the car wasn't in this case before. 17:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It was at Chevy Impala. 17:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm waiting for someone to challenge a single fact in my reporting as an accurate and the first big story is ran in 2005. 17:28 [SPEAKER_02]: that's 14 years ago, and no one has challenged it. 17:33 [SPEAKER_02]: If you have something that shows how it was wrong, love to hear from you, get in touch. 17:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, I think that nobody believes that my job was inaccurate, if it wasn't, and I reported it the way it was, I think that the story that Zoom told, ever since, is highly two-bears 17:58 [SPEAKER_02]: and I'll stand behind that, and it's all I can say. 18:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Tom, just curious, were you able to listen to another podcast we did with the lady her name was Sharon Bush? 18:08 [SPEAKER_01]: She was friends with Sister Russell. 18:11 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I was not. 18:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't, I listened to several in preparation for all of this, but and here, credit, you're reporting has been your reporting has been fast and voluminous, and I've got to, even at my advanced age, I've got to earn a living and support a family 18:27 [SPEAKER_02]: In the meantime, I did not hear the shared work today. 18:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so Sharon, who was very good friends with Russell, she had attended TOEO, and she had graduated. 18:40 [SPEAKER_01]: She was there the night, the Kathy disappeared. 18:46 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, she had gone over to Kathy's apartment, 18:51 [SPEAKER_01]: because sister Russell, he was borrowing, sweater or something, I can remember which one was borrowing white. 18:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So Sharon went to the apartment and was exchanging that article of clothing and she actually spoke to sister Kathy. 19:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And Kathy had told her that she was going out to go shopping 19:17 [SPEAKER_01]: immediately realized that it was much later than the two ladies normally would be out shopping. 19:24 [SPEAKER_01]: She shared what that conversation was like and she was there shortly before Kathy left to go shopping. 19:32 [SPEAKER_01]: She also shared with us that she had gone back home and sister Russell, 19:40 [SPEAKER_01]: But she remembers it clearly because she had recently gotten the new cool thing was to have your own line in your bedroom and she had her own number in her bedroom and that's just a Russell had called her and asked her hey have you seen her from Kathy. 20:01 [SPEAKER_01]: and Sharon said that she thought that was very weird because she wasn't really good friends with Kathy. 20:07 [SPEAKER_01]: She was friends with Russell. 20:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So she thought it was odd because she was like, why would I have turned from Kathy? 20:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Speaking with Sharon, we got a lot of things out of it. 20:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We've been able to narrow the timeline down a little bit and in the past couple weeks, Jim and I have gotten new information. 20:26 [SPEAKER_01]: that we're currently working through to continue to try to narrow down the timeline in terms of what led up and what times those events happened prior to Kathy disappearing, and immediately after that moment, I really wish that Jerry would be willing to let us speak with him about that, just because, and of course, I don't fault anyone. 20:51 [SPEAKER_01]: or not wanting to be on a podcast site. 20:53 [SPEAKER_01]: That's definitely a decision for everyone to make on their own. 20:56 [SPEAKER_01]: But I really wish that we could just so that we could narrow, would help us narrow down the timeline, which as you are fully aware that's incredibly important because of all the pieces that follow. 21:07 [SPEAKER_01]: One of those very surprising things that Sharon told us. 21:11 [SPEAKER_01]: which we'll go back to the question on if the piece knew about the abuse. 21:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Sharon said that early the next morning, she had heard again from Sister Russell. 21:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So she, her mom brought her back to the apartment. 21:26 [SPEAKER_01]: As she approached the apartment, the detectives were there, and there were lots of car cars outside, that and she remembers walking in to the apartment and Sister Russell approached her along with a detective 21:41 [SPEAKER_01]: and Sister Russell introduced her to this detective and explained that they're trying to find Sister Kathy. 21:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And with Russell there with her, the detective in the trench coat asked her a question, just one question, which is very telling. 22:01 [SPEAKER_01]: The detective asks Sharon, did anyone at B.O. 22:07 [SPEAKER_01]: do anything to you that you didn't want them to do? 22:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And she said, in fact, that it was such a surprise that immediately her first thought was there was this kid that pissed me and has the detective clearly realized that wasn't an answer that he was looking for. 22:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he said, OK, thank you, you know, that's not what I'm looking for. 22:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And to us, the hear that is so telling as I'm sure you realize because Russell was right there. 22:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And if that question was out of left field, I just feel that sister Russell would have said something to share it. 22:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Like why would he have asked you that question? 22:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Because the sharing wasn't a student like you any longer because she had already graduated. 22:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So speaking with Sharon definitely cleared up a lot of things. 22:54 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it's just a Russell was Sharon, it's made of honor for her wedding. 22:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So they were pretty good friends. 23:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was so nice to talk to Sharon to not only narrow that timeline to learn that information, but also to understand the person that Russell which is so important just to know different people surrounding the story. 23:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to ask you, 23:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you watch the keepers yourself and for and if you did, was there anything that caught your attention or peaked your carryoff course, I think the thing that stands out the most was the incredible moment when very crew painted that the police had grilled him so relentlessly and so aggressively and had upset and disturbed him so much that one of their tactics was to bring part of the 23:44 [SPEAKER_02]: deceased nuns body, the into the room, and show him part of her body, I think specifically her vagina, or a piece of decomposed flesh really, and said to by the crew, now how do you like it? 24:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm paraphrasing, slightly, of course, I don't have the actual dialogue written for anything. 24:13 [SPEAKER_02]: We hope you're happy now. 24:14 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think we have here? 24:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Think a look at this. 24:17 [SPEAKER_02]: And they thrust this body part in front of him. 24:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And he then seemed to be a pain to show how cruel and unreasonable. 24:28 [SPEAKER_02]: A psychological boy of that kind was. 24:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you recall that moment's pain in the keepers? 24:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely. 24:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I found that not just bizarre. 24:40 [SPEAKER_02]: It was, it lay outside my experience of reality. 24:45 [SPEAKER_02]: We tell, to insist that detectives would, and I have to use gentle language. 24:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to get very tasked, ridiculous here. 24:56 [SPEAKER_02]: But I take it to assume that they had gotten a surgical instrument and removed the portion of the hopes of the anatomy of the corpse and then brought it 25:08 [SPEAKER_02]: This priest who claimed that he was at no part in any of it or knew nothing about it, and pressed it right in front of him, I take it that what he must have meant in that moment in the capers was that the brutal, partless, vicious police were willing to subject him 25:39 [SPEAKER_02]: and he was suddenly snapped and confessed all. 25:43 [SPEAKER_02]: That lies beyond my experience. 25:46 [SPEAKER_02]: It's extremely hard for me to imagine, especially remember, these police investigators were under the most terrible scrutiny and being warned, don't you in any way, abuse or bully, these priests, we've had Jesuit lawyers in here. 26:08 [SPEAKER_02]: we're watching like a hawk and you're running a pile of the church to believe that against that pressure where they were ultimately to leave him alone and let him go that they would okay boys talk to the coroner we'll get a piece of her body and wave it on a burn and that'll make him snap. 26:27 [SPEAKER_02]: That lies beyond anything that I know 26:34 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I frankly, my feeling at that moment, watching it was that this might be a person who is no longer rationally stable and on top of things because I can't imagine making that part of your contribution to the keepers. 27:02 [SPEAKER_02]: on the night when the non-vanish simply made it overwhelmingly obvious, that account would not be true. 27:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And yet, whatever was going on, but only be a made up story. 27:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll just tell you that, Mike, and just a 50-year veteran reporter for what it was, I've done many stories of this kind over decades. 27:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And usually what you find when you listen, go out all the details and look at it, is the key question, is all of this credible or not? 27:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it credible that the two priests would learn only at 10 o'clock, apparently, that the nun has not returned home, and instead of going to the shopping center to see if she's had a flat tire or 27:54 [SPEAKER_02]: engine breakdown or something who knows, there were no cell phones, correct in that day. 28:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe she had a flat tire and she's busy working with the truck service, to play, or whatever. 28:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe she met an old girlfriend and they went and had a couple of beers and it stretched out a couple hours and she lost traffic. 28:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Instead of all of that, no, we've got a company at cars, they're moving now. 28:17 [SPEAKER_02]: We've got to get up there now. 28:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I suspect, 28:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I have not determined that it's in any way an accurate depiction, but for what is worth my experiences of reporter over many years tells me, whatever went on in that apartment that night, they all knew about pretty early and then they looked up a story. 28:45 [SPEAKER_02]: There's another little known fact about all of this that just might be pertinent here. 28:53 [SPEAKER_02]: who lives next door. 28:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I think she lived in the adjoining apartment. 28:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have the details, but it was right next door a few feet. 29:02 [SPEAKER_02]: The front wall in her apartment was 10-12 feet from the carriage-house apartment where the nun lives. 29:11 [SPEAKER_02]: She told me at an enormous length and I'll bet she's 29:20 [SPEAKER_02]: It was Friday, November 7, 1969. 29:25 [SPEAKER_02]: At around 805, she happened to go out doors for some reason to get something out of a car or whatever, and she heard a terrible, screaming argument with a man and a woman. 29:39 [SPEAKER_02]: In which she was threatening her and telling her stuff like, keep this up and you'll be sorry that she'll never wish you a born and so on. 29:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And she was so struck by the violence of this shouting match that she lingered there for a minute or two and then it slowly vanished and she realized, I sure hope that woman is safe. 30:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Was that the actual confrontation on the parking lot? 30:06 [SPEAKER_02]: All I can tell you, Shane, is that logic, simple human logic for what we have on it tells me something happened on the parking lot. 30:16 [SPEAKER_02]: The Carly members remember remains right nearby. 30:20 [SPEAKER_02]: She went up to the apartment and maybe they took her up. 30:26 [SPEAKER_02]: A shouting match ensues in the apartment. 30:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the cops with the Billy Club that we've talked about is in there too. 30:36 [SPEAKER_02]: But the pizza are there soon after that, really, two hours at the most two and a half hours after that. 30:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't it likely doesn't seem obvious to you that what happened was a shouting match in the apartment. 30:55 [SPEAKER_02]: She may have gotten angry and rebellious. 30:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't care what you say. 31:00 [SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to get away with it. 31:01 [SPEAKER_02]: You're refusing these girls. 31:02 [SPEAKER_02]: They're coming to me and they're frying and they're 31:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And by God, you're going to stop or leave or else I'll go public and somebody maybe the cops with a big instrument that by the way, matches the wounds in her skull. 31:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Somebody says, okay, you want to get nasty. 31:22 [SPEAKER_02]: You want to be on a quarrel when we're warning you how it is. 31:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Max, you're just a just a plunder a little bit and then somebody else, oh my God, she's not breathing. 31:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Are you serious? 31:35 [SPEAKER_02]: We call an ambulance, oh my God, we're next deep in abuse. 31:40 [SPEAKER_02]: She knew about it, the cops are involved, it's an horrible thing. 31:44 [SPEAKER_02]: What do we owe? 31:45 [SPEAKER_02]: My God, what do we do? 31:46 [SPEAKER_02]: What do we do? 31:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And now they look at each other. 31:50 [SPEAKER_02]: She says, you hit her too hard, officer. 31:54 [SPEAKER_02]: She's dead. 31:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Now they sit down and they start talking. 32:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to be cynical, I don't want to be prejudiced against the church, but it seems very possible to me about the third thing they do in their panic is called downtown the Catholic Center, and they get one of their lawyers that takes an hour maybe, they get a lawyer on the phone, and within an hour he's in the apartment, it's now maybe midnight. 32:29 [SPEAKER_02]: But let's say it's midnight now and the Catholic church lawyer is sitting with them and he's saying oh my god, you realize what we have here. 32:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone knows that this horrible stuff has been going on. 32:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Detective Roma told me before he died and he'll permit me again. 32:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Tom. 32:59 [SPEAKER_02]: There was all hanky panky, there was lesbian stuff going on. 33:03 [SPEAKER_02]: That was about as far from being a Catholic thing as you can imagine, he said, no, I don't mind it's not my business. 33:09 [SPEAKER_02]: They can do what they want. 33:10 [SPEAKER_02]: But by God, if it affected this investigation, that's something different. 33:14 [SPEAKER_02]: They was neck deep in all kinds of sex triangles and sex ring and all. 33:19 [SPEAKER_02]: And once they're looking at maybe a dead woman who's in the middle of it and the home, that damn thing is going to come apart and the sky's beautiful. 33:30 [SPEAKER_02]: and they taught and they pretty grim. 33:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Then we'll scuff the coffee and what do we do now? 33:35 [SPEAKER_02]: And the lawyer will help probably while in-between calls to the Archbishop. 33:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm speculating, but they remind everybody of that. 33:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if this is true of my guess is. 33:47 [SPEAKER_02]: So probably went to the highest brass. 33:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I know it's all went to Rome. 33:52 [SPEAKER_02]: But when the call was over, it was here. 33:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Take care of this, fix this now. 33:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And so we begin to get the next stage of the explanation, which is, go all the way. 34:06 [SPEAKER_02]: We would not be there. 34:07 [SPEAKER_02]: We stayed there, there's nobody's ever asked this question. 34:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I wish I had, I was just parting up to either. 34:13 [SPEAKER_02]: But nobody asked who, and brother Pete, why don't you ever go home? 34:20 [SPEAKER_02]: There is no point here where anybody goes home. 34:24 [SPEAKER_02]: extremely telling and important. 34:26 [SPEAKER_02]: In other words, follow me for just a moment. 34:29 [SPEAKER_02]: They sit there and she doesn't show up and they sit there and now it's one o'clock in the morning and they just said, God, you should be here. 34:36 [SPEAKER_02]: We can't take anymore. 34:37 [SPEAKER_02]: You're time off here. 34:38 [SPEAKER_02]: We've got to call the police. 34:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, Mr. Kathy's missing will you help us sit around your file missing first. 34:46 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the story. 34:47 [SPEAKER_02]: We know they make the call around one. 34:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Listen up, guys, and listen carefully. 34:59 [SPEAKER_02]: At one o'clock, we're gonna file a missing person's report. 35:05 [SPEAKER_02]: But you and by the crew, you and brother Pete are not going home. 35:12 [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to sit with us because we need you here about 4 a.m. or so to be still excited, worried, concerned. 35:20 [SPEAKER_02]: The two will float in this in what he told me. 35:25 [SPEAKER_02]: your nurse. 35:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And during that war, oh my God, unbelievably out of the blue, I can't take her far. 35:34 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the non-spar right on the edge of the parking lot, how can this be? 35:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Who called me in that interview and I reported it? 35:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I told Brother Pete that I know a little about police matters, don't you touch that car, Brother Pete? 35:50 [SPEAKER_02]: You would be disturbing evidence. 35:52 [SPEAKER_02]: we will just look inside the car together and see if we can learn anything about whatever dreadful event occurred here. 35:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And we looked and we saw no real signs of trouble. 36:03 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a little way to waste past that he told me, turned over on the front seat, on the floor of the front seat, but all of us have that. 36:11 [SPEAKER_02]: How many times do you think you had one of those little trash past 36:16 [SPEAKER_02]: maybe a little crash back in a couple of balls of paper that fell out of it and they were lying on the passenger side of the front seat. 36:23 [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't make much of it. 36:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Just a little turned over waste basket and we still know other signs of any blood or any damage. 36:31 [SPEAKER_02]: So how had her with Molly gotten here? 36:33 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't know. 36:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Then the story tells us and in the interview, two interviews I did with him. 36:40 [SPEAKER_02]: He made it clear that 36:42 [SPEAKER_02]: we stayed the rest of the night in worrying and upset and so on, but he neglected to say and I've never heard anyone else say, when do these guys go home? 36:54 [SPEAKER_02]: When do they say, I don't want fun beef, we've been at it all night, I hope you guys she's all right, I'll say a prayer, they are pleased that they're all in, I understand quite capable of prayer, so they would be expert to get at your Lord, please let nothing 37:12 [SPEAKER_02]: in the name of Jesus Mary and Joseph will please let her be okay and then praying religiously they get in the car because after all as soon they got to go home and get to sleep and maybe even some breakfast they're going to stay there all day all weekend new all they haven't bothered to go up to the shopping center and look around there and wondering if maybe they'd see something or right along the right between the apartment 37:39 [SPEAKER_02]: did she have some kind of health issue and pain and she's unconscious and the car is pulled over on the side of the road. 37:46 [SPEAKER_02]: They did none of that and none of that has ever been expressed. 37:51 [SPEAKER_02]: All of this same tells me something happened when that woman heard that screaming on that parking lot and out of that the nun was injured and then they were all there in that apartment and we come to the final piece of the puzzle. 38:06 [SPEAKER_02]: at your David's been down to cease, there's still numerous people, but not me. 38:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I have not interviewed him correctly myself, and reporting what I was said, that he got a call somewhere late evening, kind of thought, maybe, that he was to obey his mentor father, master, who often used him for ugly chores that had to be carried out, and the 38:36 [SPEAKER_02]: who was later a suspect in this because he came home and is plugging all bloody and he was coming with blood in his own wife was so terrified she said well what's going on what are you doing and he said I got in a fight at work don't worry about it it's okay no problem all of that and they've been told numerous other people before he died I got a call it was from last school it was get over here and bring your buddy so in another video 39:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And we have something you need to take away and dispose of. 39:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And when he got there, there was a body wrapped in a heavy rug. 39:15 [SPEAKER_02]: And that rug has been taken and deposited in a major Baltimore City landfill inside the city living. 39:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, David and his life established the reputation as being unrelindled and perhaps even deranged. 39:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And so we have to be careful that we're not listening 39:36 [SPEAKER_02]: But I tell you this with factual certainty. 39:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I have listened to a carefully part in which David's wife tells the FBI only three four years ago when they come back to one of their innumerable, reject the everything. 39:54 [SPEAKER_02]: He tells the FBI, he came in and he was bloody and I was scared, why are you all kind of with blood? 40:01 [SPEAKER_02]: He wanted to get something out of the car and 40:03 [SPEAKER_02]: No matter what you do, he said you're not going to that front, you understand, you're not going to look at that front. 40:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll not get in the head if I have to. 40:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Stop asking me questions and go to bed. 40:49 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
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