0:08 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching. 0:22 [SPEAKER_00]: today, I'm joined with again, Tom Nugent, Tom, it's so good to hear from you again. 0:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Shane and Gemma for the terrific work you've been doing to keep this important story alive and keep so many people listening to the weekman continue to do our best to report 0:40 [SPEAKER_02]: the fact and only the fact has best with you. 0:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad you said that because a lot of people who listen to our two part are that we already released with our conversation with you. 0:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, people are up to hearing you. 0:54 [SPEAKER_00]: They loved how 0:55 [SPEAKER_00]: and depth, you go into each of the questions. 0:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So of course, more people had more questions and even some people wanted to ask those questions themselves. 1:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll go ahead and jump in and I'm going to play a recording of two of those questions. 1:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm actually wondering. 1:17 [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, it's a fine scene that's run through the national genealogy day for DNA. 1:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I wish it's curious about that. 1:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much. 1:30 [SPEAKER_02]: The answer I have is, as was reported in the Baltimore Sun and other newspapers a couple of years ago. 1:38 [SPEAKER_02]: the DNA testing of the cigarette, but indicated that Father Maskel, he figured in all of this that was not identified as having left his DNA on those cigarette, but that were located in the area of the body of the dead on such a cat. 1:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, at that point, we knew very little, but only that whatever took place when she was still that material, namely those cigarette 2:08 [SPEAKER_02]: did not carry his particular DNA signature. 2:12 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that line of inquiry was he involved directly on the scene at that time in her death appears to indicate and it was reported this way that he was not linked at the crime scene to her death. 2:31 [SPEAKER_02]: That shows us an important fact 2:38 [SPEAKER_02]: But it really doesn't speak to the fundamental question that all of the different investigations including my own of this have looked at, which is did he, or did he not arrange for other people to take care of this problem and eliminate sophisticated without him having to be there? 3:01 [SPEAKER_02]: No one has really ever suggested that he struck the killing blow. 3:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And indeed, there is no evidence, just to just that. 3:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And indeed, there will be a JZ television in Baltimore. 3:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, a year and a half ago, reported that, mind you, not as a question or speculation, but as a fact that both police, 3:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And priests were involved in raping and otherwise that using these rules at the Kyoto High School. 3:34 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that, in my judgment, the fact that his DNA wasn't on cigarette, but look at it near her body, is essentially unimportant. 3:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's the best I can tell you about that particular situation. 3:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and Tom, I also want to add one of the lines that she asked is about if they compared the cigarette but with genealogy database for DNA. 4:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't believe that was ever shared publicly. 4:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I honestly couldn't answer that question either, and I doubt you would be able to as well that what they did release publicly is that the DNA from this regret, but did not match mother mask, which as you pointed out, I feel like at no point in time did anyone ever feel like any one would find DNA of father mask was at the crime scene. 4:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that accurate? 4:26 [SPEAKER_02]: It certainly is. 4:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Dang, it's totally accurate. 4:29 [SPEAKER_02]: In my view, as an investigative reporter, it's very clear from many different sources that are indisputable, that the police and the FBI have been covering up this particular prime, the murder of the nun. 4:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Since day one, as an example of this, I give you evidence number one, which is that a freedom of information act 4:57 [SPEAKER_02]: was delivered now, I think, probably five years ago to the FDA, and they've been responded by saying, actually, although we had said before that we had nothing on the case, effect which I reported extensively in some of my stories, in fact, we do have 6,000 pages of investigative materials. 5:23 [SPEAKER_02]: that we will release these shortly under the Freedom of Information Act and to this day they have never released it. 5:30 [SPEAKER_02]: They've also re-investigated the case. 5:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I think now four times, including interviews, with some of the key figures who were involved back in the day, and they have never released any of that even though I have been my possession, 5:52 [SPEAKER_02]: We are on a bound to release it, we have a few tasks to achieve, we have to redirect names, places, states in order to avoid somehow involving individuals that we don't have the authority to involve, but you will soon make it available to you. 6:12 [SPEAKER_02]: They have never done that, and they have been allowed to get away with 6:18 [SPEAKER_02]: confirming that the request under the Freedom Information Act was appropriate and do process and that they would respond and they have not responded in any way. 6:31 [SPEAKER_02]: So I asked, why do they keep reinvestigating the murder of 20 secure old nuns 50 years ago? 6:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Why do they keep going back only two or three years ago? 6:48 [SPEAKER_02]: some of the key witnesses involved in all of this, extensively. 6:52 [SPEAKER_02]: They looked again at the wedding gift that the Nun had bought at the shopping center right before he was still. 7:01 [SPEAKER_02]: They took that item a necklace and carried away with them and studied it. 7:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And they re-interviewed everyone. 7:09 [SPEAKER_02]: My question, I think you could see the obvious potential answer. 7:18 [SPEAKER_02]: to have compiled 6,000 pages, mostly on the stepping victim. 7:24 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it was five days after the Nernstead was also killed, and killed at Fort Feed, where Father Massell was the chaplain back in the day, they had put together an enormous, I never heard anything like 6,000 pages, 7:43 [SPEAKER_02]: And then they have re-interviewed witnesses three times, I guess, it is, and once again, we are told nothing. 7:51 [SPEAKER_02]: This tells me, as an investigative reporter, that they have some kind of deep interest in what all of this really is. 7:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And when they looked over their six thousand pages, they've had five years to redact whatever they wanted. 8:06 [SPEAKER_02]: They came to the conclusion that this material should not be shown to the public. 8:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I have no doubt myself speaking personally that they are engaged with the Baltimore County Police and other law enforcement agencies in a long-term cover-up of the entire incident. 8:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't see any other reasonable conclusions to come to here. 8:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Therefore, I asked myself, as a journalist, why do they care? 8:38 [SPEAKER_02]: This is a homicide of a 26 year old kid, basically, in the Baltimore area. 8:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's 50 years old. 8:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Why not release everything and say, take a look at the side of yourselves, what's here? 8:54 [SPEAKER_02]: There is some reason. 8:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think I know what that reason is that they felt compelled to keep everything secret and it is secret tonight as I speak to you. 9:07 [SPEAKER_00]: life can get overwhelming, and talking to someone can make all the difference. 9:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 9:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and as little as a couple of days, you can connect by message, phone or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 9:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, 9:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help include a journal for personal reflection, and daily group sessions on a variety of topics, and they accept each essay and FSA cards. 9:48 [SPEAKER_00]: with over 2,000,000 users, and a 4. star rating on trust pilot. 9:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help is a trusted platform for accessible mental health care. 9:58 [SPEAKER_00]: If you think you could benefit from therapy, visit betterhelp.com, choose our podcast during sign-up, and get 10% off your first month. 10:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Taking care of your mental health is a sign of strength. 10:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Start your journey today. 10:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure you might be aware of this, but we learned when we spoke last with Joyce's family, the FBI actually destroyed all of the physical evidence in Joyce's case during the mid-90s. 10:28 [SPEAKER_00]: This is so frustrating to me just to think that the FBI would destroy physical evidence that could have been tested in the 90s. 10:38 [SPEAKER_00]: DNA testing. 10:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So before they even attempt to test it for DNA, they destroyed it all, which also, if you think about this, the timing is very weird again, because we know in the mid 90s when the dough road trial came up. 10:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And during that period of time is when they started re-examining 11:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And as you brought up, they recently denied the request for the Freedom of Information Act. 11:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not sure if you know about this, but 11:15 [SPEAKER_00]: After we had after Jim and I met with my like use in Baltimore, they shared with us how frustrating they still were, because they felt like the FBI was just waiting for all of them to die, so that they would stop asking questions about choice skates. 11:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So what Jim and I ended up doing was we actually contacted every senator and lawmaker. 11:39 [SPEAKER_00]: In Maryland, we did that through email and letters. 11:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And we also asked our listeners and followers to do the same. 11:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Eventually, that led to Abby being able to work with certain people to try to get the FBI to prioritize that, because as you mentioned, it had been five years already. 11:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And it still had not been assignment analyst. 12:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And then of course, as you also mentioned, they returned it and said, nope, sorry, 12:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I hear you, Shane, and it actually, in my opinion, worse than that, when I wrote my story in, there was published in 2005, about all of this was a six thousand word monster investigative piece that went back and looked at every detail as closely as possible. 12:39 [SPEAKER_02]: the public affairs section of the FBI from their central offices in Woodlaw and Maryland. 12:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And when I asked him about Malekki in particular, he told me, and I granted in my story, and no one has ever contradicted it from the FBI or anywhere else. 12:59 [SPEAKER_02]: No one has challenged my report that Agent Maddox told me, quote, actually Tom, 13:06 [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't investigate the killing of Joyce Malekki, even though it took place on a federal reservation namely for need as well. 13:14 [SPEAKER_02]: What we did was, because we were busy with other things, we went ahead and returned the entire case to the Anne Rundel County Police Department and their homicide division. 13:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And we left everything with them. 13:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, as you can imagine, I quickly called them and they said, 13:34 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't understand this. 13:36 [SPEAKER_02]: We never did a single thing to investigate the first Malekis death. 13:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Even though reportedly, she was abducted from a shopping center in anneronal town. 13:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Apparently, the police in anneronal county told me they've made a mistake for forgotten or lost the pile. 13:59 [SPEAKER_02]: But their assertions, 14:02 [SPEAKER_02]: that we handled Malekky's death for body-found in a stream as on the military base is inaccurate. 14:11 [SPEAKER_02]: We never did a single moment of work on that. 14:15 [SPEAKER_02]: They did all of the work at the FBI. 14:18 [SPEAKER_02]: So now we've found out years later that they have, indeed, 6,000 pages of work they did. 14:26 [SPEAKER_02]: When I asked MPIA dramatic, 14:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I've been through all our files that looked in our basement and our old records. 14:36 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't have a thing on jurist molecular. 14:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, we cannot help you. 14:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't explain what he said, but apparently we have nothing. 14:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm left with this problem. 14:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Why did they tell me the reporter? 14:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we don't have anything. 14:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't worry about it. 14:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Go talk to the Anna Rundal County top. 15:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And then they come back later and admit publicly, they have 6,000 pages of investigation into the molecular ceiling. 15:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Those things cannot be true at the same time. 15:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And I have numerous other examples of things that were told to me by the FBI that are absolutely false. 15:24 [SPEAKER_02]: and have led me to the only reasonable conclusion that I can get, especially when you remember that they've been investigating this over over again in the last five years. 15:34 [SPEAKER_02]: We are not talking about them saying gold history, who cares the 50 years ago, they have gone to witnesses and ask them to demand it, in fact, give us the necklace 15:48 [SPEAKER_02]: the non-vot that night before she was killed, we want to look at it, turn it over to our physical lab guys and so on. 15:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And they have asked witnesses, go ahead and remember for us what's the place on the night of her abduction? 16:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Why do they care, 50 years later, nearly, about these events? 16:10 [SPEAKER_02]: If they're only a minor hip on the radar, 16:18 [SPEAKER_02]: The ordinary simplistic step here is you go investigate its 50 years later, many of the principles, perhaps most of them, are dead. 16:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you care? 16:33 [SPEAKER_02]: At one point I was told we have to take care of 911, we're feeling a terrorist. 16:39 [SPEAKER_02]: We're dealing with protecting America from horrible monsters who want to come here like 911 and blow up buildings. 16:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think we have time to be worrying about a 50-year-old murder of a 20-year-old done? 16:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much and good day. 16:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Then why are they reinvestigating at several times within the last two years? 16:59 [SPEAKER_02]: That tells me something and what it tells me is there were elements high up in the Baltimore, in the Maryland, and even in the Washington, D.C. 17:09 [SPEAKER_02]: world of politics and criminal investigations that for whom it was extremely important to make sure that the real story of what all of this was never got out. 17:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think a reasonable person can conclude otherwise. 17:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Even the series of tips I've just described to you in one last quick, Jane, if I got that wrong and somehow lost my grip and reported it incorrectly, where have they been? 17:37 [SPEAKER_02]: No one has ever said your story is an accurate. 17:40 [SPEAKER_02]: No one has challenged this information about special aid comparing addicts and their claim that they never investigated it, followed by their admission that they did investigate it and they have 6,000 pages of stuff. 17:54 [SPEAKER_02]: But, and they've agreed to turn it over for the Freedom of Information Act, and yet they have never done it to this dollar. 18:02 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a clear violation, I'm sure, not maybe not just the federal procedures, but even of the law. 18:09 [SPEAKER_02]: When that request was filed, they were told that people who filed it, freedom of information or physical, you are inciting this material, your request is an order, we will bring it to you as fast as possible once we do a few last reduction chores and they never did. 18:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Put it all of that together. 18:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll quote Hamlet, you'll permit me. 18:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't change your tire, but I've got one Shakespeare quote for you. 18:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Which is, something is rotten in the state of Denmark. 18:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I hope that is helpful as an answer to your question. 18:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and Tom, I want to add two things to that. 18:47 [SPEAKER_00]: One, I had asked, I retired FBI agent. 18:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I explained this situation that we learned that the FBI destroyed the physical evidence for choices and solved murder cases. 18:58 [SPEAKER_00]: and it was of course prior to them, even testing it for DNA, when testing was available. 19:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And then when we got the denial back from the FOIA request, I brought that to their attention as well. 19:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And they told me, first off, he has never heard of the FBI destroying physical evidence. 19:19 [SPEAKER_00]: in an unsolved murder case, especially at a time when they could have tested a Virginia. 19:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He felt from his own opinion in his knowledge with working with the FBI, it seems like the reason that they could be denying the request is because of a liability issue. 19:36 [SPEAKER_00]: For example, 19:37 [SPEAKER_00]: if they were to release documents to us in the family and there was anything in there that could expose them as they didn't fully work the case or they messed up somewhere or they did something they shouldn't have aka destroy physical evidence then the family could have the ability 19:56 [SPEAKER_00]: to sue the FDA for missing and doing the case. 20:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was just, you can list those, you can take that as they will. 20:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I also want to add that you mentioned the necklace. 20:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Whenever we mention the necklace in the podcast, it normally we start getting the same questions and questions again. 20:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to just make sure that I answer that really quickly so I don't get a bunch of emails about this necklace. 20:20 [SPEAKER_00]: We've been told by the detectives that the necklace they're not able to confirm, like Kathy bought the necklace, as an engagement gift. 20:28 [SPEAKER_00]: There was no receipt. 20:30 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that the detectives had acquired with all the shops in the area as she had been shopping at. 20:37 [SPEAKER_00]: and no one could confirm that she had purchased the necklace and it seems that she was inquiring on starting a registry so people could purchase stuff for her sister's wedding, but I don't want to stay on this topic too long because I do have lots of other questions that I'd love to pick your mind for Tom. 20:55 [SPEAKER_00]: The detectives have told Gemma in myself that the necklace 21:05 [SPEAKER_00]: They further explained that Edgar seemed to have been a petty thief and could have stolen it from anyone. 21:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll go ahead and start the message for the next question. 21:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, guys. 21:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Here is my response. 21:20 [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, it's possible. 21:22 [SPEAKER_01]: With Thompson's eyes, I'd like to share about the connection with any political feudal back in 2016. 21:34 [SPEAKER_01]: How this was connected with the Honey Pot at the school first politician's room, and I'm like, what do you think about the idea of that topic? 21:44 [SPEAKER_01]: He kind of referenced it, pointed out the paper, and probably it's done. 21:50 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to be sure that something's on over, not at that time, but it's not later that it's the same time. 21:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to take you with me. 22:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's the idea. 22:02 [SPEAKER_02]: extremely important question and I thank this listener for sending it in. 22:07 [SPEAKER_02]: When I was a reporter on the Baltimore Sun, this was from 1978 until 1983 about five years. 22:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone on the Sun understood that the city of Baltimore had been in the grip of a corrupt 22:29 [SPEAKER_02]: already by the 1970s. 22:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And so one of the things that we have to remember here, the matter of fact without speaking too personally, my own history is not very important here. 22:43 [SPEAKER_02]: But the fact is that I left my job and resigned from this gun because I understood 22:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Manipulated the aquarium construction and the later building of harbor place, the multi-million-dollar shopping mart on the water's end, they understood that the government of the city of Baltimore in that time was deeply engaged in all sorts of criminal activities, including widespread 23:26 [SPEAKER_02]: They would buy old condemned properties that the city had owned under fake assumed identity firms. 23:36 [SPEAKER_02]: It would ensure them for a couple of million dollars. 23:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Then they would secretly burn the buildings themselves and collect huge payoffs from the insurance. 23:45 [SPEAKER_02]: The money I was even told by absolutely reliable witnesses including people who had done this for them. 23:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Mr. Count, Switzerland, this went on and it became such a joke that at the big police bar there was a central police, the Baltimore Police Department lounge, where state police, city police, and FBI gathered regularly. 24:17 [SPEAKER_02]: And they would sit around and drink a few beers after their shift. 24:20 [SPEAKER_02]: This is a common thing we know about in that world. 24:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And the name of the mayor of that day, William Donald Schafer, often described as Willy Donald Schafer. 24:31 [SPEAKER_02]: At that time, the knowledge of this criminal activity that have been going on for years was so widespread and pervasive that the police, I'm talking state police and FBI and local cops, 24:47 [SPEAKER_02]: their nickname for the mayor was, quote, Willy the porch. 24:52 [SPEAKER_02]: They jokingly referred frequently to Willy the Tork as the mayor of Baltimore, and later soon to be the two-term governor. 25:00 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not common and widespread. 25:03 [SPEAKER_02]: all of this knowledge was among law enforcement officers back in the day when I tried to do some investigative work and begin to bring some of this forward and to ask how the manipulation of these financial records and so on at the aquarium and at her replace how that actually took place and whether or not these art and the things we're occurring as I've just described 25:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry Tom, we're not going there, let it go. 25:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I had at that time develop a course and assistant accountant financial officer in the city government of Baltimore who had agreed to, if I asked for it, to meet with the manager editor and even the publisher of this month. 25:56 [SPEAKER_02]: I conveyed that to the manager editor 26:01 [SPEAKER_02]: and they said no to them. 26:03 [SPEAKER_02]: That is highly irregular. 26:05 [SPEAKER_02]: We're not interested in meeting ourselves. 26:08 [SPEAKER_02]: This is unheard of in journalism. 26:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you live in reporter goes and writes the story and the editor looked that and if it seemed reasonable and we have all of the alleged lilies and reported lilies all the adverbs are in place to show that you are not intentionally accusing someone of a crime. 26:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Then they run the story if the evident in your story is adequate and a reasonable person was say, this is worthy of examination. 26:34 [SPEAKER_02]: When they refuse to look at it at all, I resigned at the five years on the job. 26:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And without one of these fancy contemporary buyouts, 26:45 [SPEAKER_02]: where reporters get $50 or $80,000 for giving up their job. 26:50 [SPEAKER_02]: I went out the door without a penny. 26:52 [SPEAKER_02]: On principle, instead, I am not going to be part of this entire corrupt system that you guys have put together and you are hiding it from the public. 27:03 [SPEAKER_02]: And the consequences are not just important to heartbreaking. 27:08 [SPEAKER_02]: In the last few decades involved more as you're paying, 27:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I would say right now that on average, probably one person, every night is killed, often in the ghetto, or the surrounding areas, where they equally grew up continuing drug trade continues, and the battle over turf continues, and the same nightmare that we knew back 27:37 [SPEAKER_02]: almost every night being Baltimore as a consequence of these disconciliation of criminal activities that went on, and every prosecutor that they ever brought it to was fear afraid, politically, fear afraid to take it on, and they would hold again and again. 27:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I have talked to some idealistic FBI agencies that we've brought this to the State Security and to the federal prosecutor's in the Baltimore again and again and we're always told too bad, you've got some pretty important believable stuff, but the time isn't right and we cannot proceed with a grand jury or with indictment. 28:23 [SPEAKER_02]: The city was corrupt to its chief. 28:28 [SPEAKER_02]: He burned the building. 28:30 [SPEAKER_02]: They told me how they put the white petroleum jelly under the windows and made through the ventilation was the right way, because the real fear that you have in Arson, if you don't burn it fully and you leave behind clues, you could get into real trouble. 28:47 [SPEAKER_02]: The mayor's administration in that day gave classes. 28:57 [SPEAKER_02]: on how to burn the buildings properly. 28:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And I have spent many hours sitting with inmates from the Maryland Penitentiary who explained how they were caught and caught and caught and do all of this work. 29:11 [SPEAKER_02]: There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind. 29:13 [SPEAKER_02]: That political machine was fully at work behind all of this. 29:19 [SPEAKER_02]: And the priest that killed, in my opinion, 29:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to underline that word opinion. 29:25 [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't get a bunch of threats and calls. 29:27 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to sue you for defamation. 29:30 [SPEAKER_02]: These are allegations. 29:31 [SPEAKER_02]: They are opinions. 29:33 [SPEAKER_02]: No jury has ever said that anyone has guilty of anything. 29:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And in our system of law, I fully agree. 29:40 [SPEAKER_02]: This is a system of due process and protecting the rights of the innocent. 29:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I am not accusing anyone. 29:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm telling you what my reporting has shown me, and I'm saying these are allegations. 29:51 [SPEAKER_02]: But I am also staying here loud and clear. 29:55 [SPEAKER_02]: There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it was in that corrupt atmosphere that these girls at here and from other schools were being pumped out to police and to politicians and also being very high ranking politicians. 30:16 [SPEAKER_02]: factor, along with the immense power of the Catholic Church back in the day. 30:23 [SPEAKER_02]: My judgment is that when the lawsuit came forward, and it was suddenly clear, this was a $40 million lawsuit in 1995, and it said, there's no doubt that the priests were 30:39 [SPEAKER_02]: feeding them to the police and feeding them to high ranking politicians all the way up into state and federal level. 30:48 [SPEAKER_02]: They were putting girls into holiday in rooms on loop 40 and Baltimore and some of the police and politicians were going over and taking advantage of that. 30:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And that is the real reason, in my opinion, underlining opinion, why the FBI keeps 31:06 [SPEAKER_02]: checking on it over and over again. 31:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have to remember about this, I think, Shane? 31:12 [SPEAKER_02]: What really goes on in Washington is not this wonderful dramatic battle against courage and our enemies overseas. 31:20 [SPEAKER_02]: What goes on is an intro battle among agencies like the CIA, the NSA, the FBI, to see who can get the biggest budget and wield the most influence. 31:33 [SPEAKER_02]: The whole damn system is corrupt from the top to the bottom. 31:37 [SPEAKER_02]: They're real interest as we know from the career of Jay Edgar Hoover and the FBI. 31:42 [SPEAKER_02]: There's no longer any reasonable doubt that he ran a kingdom. 31:46 [SPEAKER_02]: He was often described as more powerful than the president of the United States. 31:50 [SPEAKER_02]: He had secret files on hundreds of politicians and if anybody stopped him or tried to 31:56 [SPEAKER_02]: blocked any of Hoover's moves in Washington, they would be threatened, we've got all of the dirt on you, better watch out, you'll find your clearest destroyed in a heartbeat. 32:07 [SPEAKER_02]: The most revealing thing I ever heard about our former mayor's paper was from one of his underlings who in a week's moment said, you got to be careful with the paper, he's, the guy is so powerful, quote, not quote. 32:22 [SPEAKER_02]: He can pick up 32:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so it's against all of that backdrop that I find perfectly credible as a reporter, believable kinds of logic that tell us the six was on from the beginning. 32:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And when the lawsuit came and the truth was suddenly looking at a potential $40 million judgment against them and at the exposure of these cops and politicians for how they had been participating in all of this, 32:55 [SPEAKER_02]: they shut it down, and they had good reason to believe me. 32:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I understand fully. 33:01 [SPEAKER_02]: The fact is, however, that the knowledge we have now today makes it clear, and I think very reasonable to believe that this was never solved, and Joyce Milletti's unfortunate murder was never solved, because the grip of these dark forces on our whole way of life has never been broken. 33:24 [SPEAKER_02]: and we need to break it. 33:26 [SPEAKER_02]: We need to understand what we're up against. 33:29 [SPEAKER_02]: The Roman Catholic Church, though I will now underline this place, there are thousands of wonderful Catholic priests and nuns at work here and in other countries around the world who lives of selfless devotion. 33:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I myself attended Catholic schools throughout my boyhood and high school Catholic, 33:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And I gained immensely myself from what they taught me. 33:57 [SPEAKER_02]: They helped me make a living. 33:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I am not on an antic Catholic kick. 34:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I am not an enemy of the church. 34:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I will highly respect and appreciate the wonderful things they have done and continue to do. 34:11 [SPEAKER_02]: But by God, I do not understand anyone who says, they are above the law, or should not be subject to the law. 34:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And it is in that respect that I say, we need to break their whole. 34:25 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm proud to tell you that, as you probably know, 15 different attorneys general in the United States are now competing, personnel records, all kinds of factual content and information. 34:39 [SPEAKER_02]: from Catholic parish as all over this country. 34:42 [SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Michigan, and several other states. 34:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And in some of those states, as research has been put in jail, behind field bars, the crimes that were committed decades ago, and finally they have begun to break that hold and hold those supposedly holy men responsible for what went on. 35:09 [SPEAKER_02]: very powerful forces to define our time. 35:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And so the little bit of work that you and I and Gemma and some of the others have been able to do is a way of saying no to that and a way of recognizing that the long struggle lies ahead before that hold is broken. 35:30 [SPEAKER_02]: That's my best estimate from the heart is honestly as I can make it of what is really occurring here. 35:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, I hope I have been responsive and responsible and answering your question. 35:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Tom, you made a lot of really good points and I definitely agree with you that I do believe the corruption played a major role in not only Kathy's case, but the abuse that goes along with it. 35:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And we did segue into my next question. 36:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Before I get into that, I did want to add, you mentioned in 1995 the lawsuit was 40 million. 36:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So that definitely gives us an idea on how much the Catholic Church wanted to knock that lawsuit down. 36:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But just to give those listeners who are listening an idea of how much $40 million was in 1995, with inflation in 2019 at $68 million. 36:25 [SPEAKER_02]: So that was, yeah, that's certainly a big number. 36:30 [SPEAKER_02]: and reason enough to believe that they would have stopped at nothing in order to shut all of this down. 36:37 [SPEAKER_02]: And they essentially, at that time, succeeded in that. 36:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And they sank to unspeakable depths in my opinion, again, an underlying opinion. 36:49 [SPEAKER_02]: They tormented and set private detectives to work 36:59 [SPEAKER_02]: as you be with the blower who said that he had been shown the body of the dead nun to show that he was sexually promiscuous mentally unstable or habitual liar and that her or her testimony could not be believed. 37:18 [SPEAKER_02]: These, this is the Catholic Church that I grew up with instead of comforting this daughter 37:29 [SPEAKER_02]: and trying to help her. 37:31 [SPEAKER_02]: They put detectives on her to prove that she was promiscuous and drug taking and so on. 37:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I can find nothing in my 45 years as a reporter, more despicable than that. 37:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I hope again, I'm spoken through your point. 37:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you definitely did, and I also want to add that we also know that they also came out in approach Charles and offered him a boat to make sure he didn't talk, so that he wouldn't back up, you know, what exactly, Jean was saying, let's let me, yes, let me add, of course, I interviewed Charles Trons at in great detail. 38:24 [SPEAKER_02]: and about how he had begged his local Catholic pastor to help him somehow, leave us, and it had been told years later, I'm sorry Charles, I apologize. 38:37 [SPEAKER_02]: They told me at Archdiocese in Headquarters that if I had intervened and tried to protect you though you were 14 year old boy that I would lose my pension, he said, I reported this and it's available now 38:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And if I lost my attention, he told the adult girls, years later, I had no other skills than no other way to make money. 39:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I would have been destitute. 39:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd beg you to forgive me. 39:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I apologize from the heart, but I was the coward. 39:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And I said nothing. 39:12 [SPEAKER_02]: What more do we need than to know from his testimony that if the priesthood left him to be victimized 39:24 [SPEAKER_02]: been about taking care of one of his flocks. 39:27 [SPEAKER_02]: The word I would underline in my opinion is despicable. 39:33 [SPEAKER_02]: But I will add one more thing. 39:35 [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of a whole process that we now are beginning to learn more about. 39:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Catholic children all too often are terrified at six 39:53 [SPEAKER_02]: They are terrified into believing that they will go to hell and be tortured for eternity by demons with fiery tortures who will burn them in all the rest unless they knock a lunder and do what the local priest tells them that they can be safe from hell. 40:11 [SPEAKER_02]: If they don't have these strength or the courage or the ability to overcome that early training 40:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And the deal is this, you keep showing up every Sunday and putting the agreed upon amount in the election basket, and you'll be fine. 40:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Jesus will save you, and you won't be tortured for eternity. 40:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And so the ones who can't handle that load, which starts when there's seven years old, and who not go under to it, are their prisoners forever. 40:49 [SPEAKER_02]: They are an empire. 40:50 [SPEAKER_02]: The Catholic Church is the wealthiest single business entity on the planet by a mile. 40:58 [SPEAKER_02]: If you count everything they have from the justine chapel paintings of Michelangelo on the stealing of the chapel, be very bad, incredible real estate holding, be the business that they have engaged in from the beginning. 41:18 [SPEAKER_02]: They made good money from dials, chemical stocks, they owned at the Vatican. 41:25 [SPEAKER_02]: They made Napa and made money off it, and burned villagers, and sometimes US troops. 41:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And so we know what we're up against. 41:35 [SPEAKER_02]: I've often heard it said jokingly. 41:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't find this terribly funny, but I've heard it said jokingly, that in spite of the wonderful people who also take part in Catholic priesthood and the nuns and all regrets, I don't know what to honor them, nonetheless, as a business entity, they are fundamentally indistinguishable from the mafia, I think it's an almost conical coincidence, and both of those organizations originate in the same place. 42:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you get my meaning? 42:43 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
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