0:10 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching. 0:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Lactur, I have a question about whether or not you've been able to have any experiences with talking to abusers about the kinds of things that you're discussing with Jean, whether or not that's a part of your research or if you've been able to get any insights into what is in their heads when you discuss this. 0:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Mostly I understand the abusers through the victims. 0:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I'll get a very step-by-step description of what they do, what they say, of how their motion that they have is it like cold, 1:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Your mother doesn't love me, but you love me, and I love that kind of thing. 1:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I mostly understand the abusers mind from the descriptions by the victims. 1:30 [SPEAKER_01]: The limited direct work with abusers. 1:34 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to mix those people in your waiting room. 1:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I did a couple of extensive psychological evaluations. 1:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say I would get as deep as so like one in a prison, another in a day where nobody else was coming in, I reserved the whole day. 1:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think at a level with you anyway about what they're thinking, and how many of them know why they're doing, what they're doing, 1:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And even if they were very deadly abused and now they're directing that into victimizing somebody else, usually they're doing that as a defense against knowing their own abuse. 2:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So instead of facing their own terror and helplessness, betrayal, all of that, they switch to the top dog, positioned to defend against awareness of what it was to do the underdog and 2:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was knowing why they do it. 2:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say the insight would usually be good, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it, right? 2:37 [SPEAKER_01]: When you talk about ritual abuse, especially if the kid is born into it, and they're abused in their family, and they're abused for 20 or 30 or 40 years. 2:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Going to have abuse or parts. 2:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And you can understand a lot about the mind of an abuser from an abuser personality within a victim. 2:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And usually is what I just described. 2:57 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a last-ditch attempt. 2:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It's psychological survival. 3:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You just can't take being a victim anymore. 3:02 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't take the helplessness. 3:05 [SPEAKER_01]: The rage has to find some direction. 3:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Having your heart broken over and over too hard. 3:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It's easier to be the person who's doing the hurting than to be the one who's hurt. 3:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would say I can get a lot of insight 3:18 [SPEAKER_01]: from personalities who adopt that position. 3:24 [SPEAKER_01]: maybe sometimes only within the abuse, especially when they're being coerced or hurt others. 3:30 [SPEAKER_01]: But no, I'm not a specialist in working with sex offenders, and I don't have a whole lot of that. 3:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 3:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I just go back because it was like the missing piece in what you described that I think the listeners would want to understand? 3:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. 3:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you were talking about how is it okay to use the guy's name or do you have a 3:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's one kind of fan. 4:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's go with asshole because I really find that the name of the abuser is just really bad for people. 4:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that I'm going to an object very quickly. 4:11 [SPEAKER_03]: He put himself as my protector everything that I experience except for things he did to me. 4:21 [SPEAKER_03]: He took this dance of my uncle by the door. 4:25 [SPEAKER_03]: So you heard the understanding, part of what I continue to work on throughout my therapy is that she's the one protector. 4:32 [SPEAKER_03]: So for me to be really angry and rage to win him, it's only in the past couple of years since I was able to start talking about this and for my name on this, that I started connecting to that anger. 4:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Unfortunately, he wanted to be my father. 4:53 [SPEAKER_03]: He told me he wanted to be my father that he would protect me. 4:57 [SPEAKER_03]: He took her on all of that. 4:59 [SPEAKER_03]: and yet it was none of it to be true. 5:02 [SPEAKER_03]: So his name doesn't bother me, my name is named bothers me more. 5:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Is that right? 5:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 5:09 [SPEAKER_03]: The magnitude I went into in the confessional. 5:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And Magnus is the one that I believe he felt there was a rogue nugget just got wrapped in his lap. 5:21 [SPEAKER_03]: and Magnus is the one that took me in, and yet Magnus was more, if you were to say, to abuse those businesses, or do this, it's just kind of, I believe that there are abusers who are hanging at the count, or looking for their prey, and they find it. 5:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I think there are others that and deliberate and we'll start out in what they're doing. 5:44 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think Magnus and Maskel betrayed both. 5:47 [SPEAKER_03]: He was Magnus was the one that wasn't more if Ellen is laughing. 5:52 [SPEAKER_03]: That he was looking and that's what he took with him. 5:56 [SPEAKER_03]: I think Maskel. 5:59 [SPEAKER_03]: found out about it, and I think Maskell had a deliberate approach to what he was doing. 6:04 [SPEAKER_03]: But Magnus is the one that I feel more, I don't like his name, or don't like Maskell's. 6:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And I hate to say that because really everybody who's listening, I do hate him. 6:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I hate him. 6:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I hate him. 6:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I hate him. 6:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I hate him. 6:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I hate him. 6:17 [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm talking about the survivor as a victim, what I continue to still work on. 6:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's a whole stock home syndrome, right? 6:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, yeah. 6:26 [SPEAKER_03]: And there was someone else within the room. 6:28 [SPEAKER_03]: They had to remember a lot of people were in that room. 6:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And there was another person that I literally, you know, the cloud is, well, I don't really love with. 6:37 [SPEAKER_03]: I think a lot of the women who are listening who have been abused from over there will have to admit at some point or maybe already have. 6:47 [SPEAKER_03]: He was my protector. 6:48 [SPEAKER_03]: He was my, he took one, whatever it was. 6:52 [SPEAKER_03]: He got from you. 6:53 [SPEAKER_03]: He reused. 6:55 [SPEAKER_03]: So he reused that in me. 6:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Someone else that might have been his their lover. 7:00 [SPEAKER_03]: No, don't want people have open of that. 7:02 [SPEAKER_03]: They thought it's like ever. 7:05 [SPEAKER_03]: She could know that's the predator, but ever he could connect into and reuse it. 7:11 [SPEAKER_03]: No, take advantage of it. 7:13 [SPEAKER_03]: So for me, it was not. 7:16 [SPEAKER_03]: There was someone else in the room that one quote unquote. 7:20 [SPEAKER_03]: my wife and lover, whatever, but that was also part of the game too. 7:26 [SPEAKER_03]: But no, Maskel was truly that himself up as my protector, as my father, as my uncle, as my familiar. 7:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we've got a younger perpetrator set up to be the one that they want you to be in love with. 7:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I, yes, okay, I understand that. 7:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So this whole thing is orchestrated. 7:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So they're going to get you. 7:54 [SPEAKER_01]: They got the one a younger perpetrator set up that they're going to have that person manipulate you to believe that you're in. 8:06 [SPEAKER_01]: make you believe that he's going to ensure your survival and stop worse things. 8:11 [SPEAKER_01]: What did he try to make you believe he was going to protect you from? 8:15 [SPEAKER_03]: At first he was protecting me from anyone finding out how bad I was. 8:19 [SPEAKER_03]: But for the counseling was all kind of full play if we want to call it that. 8:23 [SPEAKER_03]: So the counseling at the beginning, that's how I would say that he was drawing me and he was using the area of where he found me, which was in the confessional. 8:33 [SPEAKER_03]: He knew then my face mattered. 8:36 [SPEAKER_03]: There answer had already taught me that that couldn't forgive me. 8:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So they had me thought. 8:41 [SPEAKER_03]: When that progressed, Burnett became he was protecting me from anyone funny on how much of a hole I was, and how evil I was. 8:51 [SPEAKER_03]: We're in after he took me to Kathy's body and began to brainwash me to believe that I actually, not only was responsible, but killed her, when he was protecting me, verbally, 9:04 [SPEAKER_03]: specifically in any way you could possibly imagine he was protecting me from anyone finding out what I had done from criminal and ability. 9:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean I forgot it was even it was any who did I don't know at what point you see this when you get my little bit. 9:23 [SPEAKER_03]: What point did I become the orchestra in the room? 9:27 [SPEAKER_03]: At what point did I become the bad that I had gone to be forgiven? 9:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And that point was I'm one that self is if I were making everything in the room happen. 9:39 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, but I'm going to tell you another thing, and you can tell me if you have heard this before, I... 9:47 [SPEAKER_03]: So, I was always running five steps ahead of him. 9:51 [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, there's a deep spiritual level. 9:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm talking religious. 9:55 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm talking spiritual. 9:56 [SPEAKER_03]: There was a spiritual blue affair of a dumb sort going on. 10:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I was running five steps ahead of him. 10:03 [SPEAKER_03]: And then there was the psychological event where my brain had already taken one of the ability to associate and to where I found so many aspects of myself. 10:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't feel the nurse at physical and the physical we never talked about, but we never should be open of within the Catholic Church. 10:23 [SPEAKER_03]: state within. 10:25 [SPEAKER_03]: The body was not the main focus. 10:28 [SPEAKER_03]: So when the body responds, when the body has different needs or wants protection, keep these safe, because it was as it 10:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I always felt that I was five steps ahead of him. 10:43 [SPEAKER_03]: And at one particular point, I knew I was done. 10:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And at now, in order for me to get out of that school, I would do whatever in the hell she wanted me to do. 10:55 [SPEAKER_03]: That was the only way I was going to stay alive. 10:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I knew that now, 11:00 [SPEAKER_03]: So all the work I've done, so I encourage everyone to continue their group. 11:04 [SPEAKER_03]: But I didn't know it. 11:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Then, and I didn't know when I first started remembering. 11:09 [SPEAKER_03]: So have you heard people talk about, and I just understand, because we kind of work on this level. 11:17 [SPEAKER_03]: But if you're running one cum level ahead of them, you're trying, even though you're just basically, you have been dehumanized, so you don't even have, if the crime against humanity, we don't even have the right to breathe, we don't have the right to flee, we don't have the right to fight, to drugs, to hit me, who's all the things to you? 11:37 [SPEAKER_03]: So for me, I thought I was up to a certain point, 11:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Keep him from getting whatever that jewel was that he seemed to be looking for. 11:51 [SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean? 11:52 [SPEAKER_00]: life can get overwhelming, and talking to someone can make all the difference. 11:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 12:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and as little as a couple of days, you can connect by message, phone, or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 12:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And if the first therapist 12:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help include a journal for personal reflection, and daily group sessions on a variety of topics, and they accept each essay and FSA cards. 12:33 [SPEAKER_00]: with over 2,000,000 users, and a 4-point star rating on trust pilot. 12:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help is a trusted platform for accessible mental health care. 12:43 [SPEAKER_00]: If you think you could benefit from therapy, visit betterhelp.com, choose our podcast during sign-up, and get 10% off your first month. 12:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Taking care of your mental health is a sign of strength. 12:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Start your journey today. 12:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Just hearing you felt that new managed to do that ultimately. 13:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely, I hid the tool. 13:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Yep. 13:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Then the tape herself. 13:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 13:08 [SPEAKER_03]: I believe that at that point, when I knew, I either would kill myself, but I would do whatever I have to do to get the hell out of here. 13:18 [SPEAKER_03]: I believe at that point, went in that paper level. 13:21 [SPEAKER_03]: I put the jewel somewhere else that he would never get. 13:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think that's what they're going for. 13:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And I do believe that many victims do a lot to protect that. 13:34 [SPEAKER_01]: They've gone. 13:35 [SPEAKER_01]: that sometimes a hidden, original, very little non-abused self that is way more deeply hidden than any of the other personalities, about something even a little bit more deeper than that, something about the soul, right? 13:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Something about, yeah, or sad, or, and then even though it may be the subjective main part of your consciousness during the abuse, it feels like he's running the show. 14:05 [SPEAKER_01]: somewhere deep within you. 14:06 [SPEAKER_01]: You have your own opinions of him. 14:08 [SPEAKER_01]: You're spiritually way ahead of him in terms of wisdom and knowing that even though he's making you feel your bed and he's godly and ordained somewhere inside of you, you know that he's bad and you're godly or something. 14:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that kind of what you're talking about? 14:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I put him learning now about myself, but I'm learning 14:34 [SPEAKER_03]: that I always thought I was stupid and I'm sure other survivors will aim in to that. 14:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I always I had no idea how many classes I actually was sitting in and I do feel that that's another conditioning. 14:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I feared my life thinking I was stupid that I was slow that I was the dumb blonde. 14:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't think that when I realized when I started to remember and I had a red, really, I've had it kind of really good therapists. 15:02 [SPEAKER_03]: But the first world was amazing. 15:04 [SPEAKER_03]: And when I started to understand with the energy and the effort that it takes to hold the trash can lift down. 15:11 [SPEAKER_03]: keep out of this contained. 15:14 [SPEAKER_03]: There's no more energy left to study, or to get good grades, or ask any kind of, I have a job application. 15:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you all without realizing it? 15:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Holding the trash can live down, because you think everything that is over there that's separate from you is trash. 15:33 [SPEAKER_03]: because that's what you were told. 15:35 [SPEAKER_03]: So I, yet, I do believe that I started to understand as I began to connect more with myself, that you know what, I, that takes a lot. 15:47 [SPEAKER_03]: We are really pretty. 15:49 [SPEAKER_03]: We're like geniuses walking around. 15:51 [SPEAKER_03]: All of you survivors listening that I wish to alive, we were able to outwit him. 15:57 [SPEAKER_03]: We were able to, why I'm even talking about this. 16:01 [SPEAKER_03]: He made very clear with and my whole being. 16:04 [SPEAKER_03]: This would never, ever be talked about again. 16:07 [SPEAKER_03]: We're pretty smart. 16:08 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's the spirituality is what brought this up. 16:12 [SPEAKER_03]: It's all of my memories Dr. Lacker came from my quiet prayer. 16:17 [SPEAKER_03]: And I mean that, I mean 100% because a survivor is not going to remember these things with someone else there. 16:25 [SPEAKER_03]: It's too vulnerable. 16:26 [SPEAKER_03]: We have been hurt in that space of vulnerability. 16:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I found that it was in the quiet of my prayer where it would come up and then I could take it to someone to help me. 16:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So that was my personal. 16:41 [SPEAKER_03]: So yes, I do feel that I'm learning more about how deeply spiritual my spiritual walk really is. 16:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, and that this was a spiritual battle. 16:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I was going to feel that very strongly. 16:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I understand. 16:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I had an observation just while I was listening to Eugene was saying, it sounds to me like there was a piece of jean that was the person she was born with. 17:07 [SPEAKER_02]: that was going to triumph over evil, that their inner strength was surviving, even though it was just in a small place in her that allowed her to be wise and smart and sharp and figure out how to get ahead of what was going one. 17:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And to me, that just affirms that we all basically can try on Vover Evil. 17:31 [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds really trait, but I mean, it's sincerely. 17:33 [SPEAKER_02]: The other question I have about the integration. 17:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just learning a lot about this. 17:40 [SPEAKER_02]: What are some other things like gain talks about it quite a fair time? 17:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Where are some other things that happen that cause versus abuse to begin to be able to integrate? 17:53 [SPEAKER_02]: How do they get to that point where they begin to realize what happened to them and what they can do about it? 18:00 [SPEAKER_02]: So you're talking about the integration of memories? 18:02 [SPEAKER_02]: What are some things that caused them to say? 18:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I know that I was a couple different identities to survive. 18:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And now I want to be my own true one-self. 18:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, how is that? 18:17 [SPEAKER_02]: How does that come about if they're not already in therapy? 18:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so now you're asking two questions. 18:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 18:24 [SPEAKER_01]: You're talking about integration, realization that you have identities. 18:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 18:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And integration of memories that were previously associated by questions and one, and they are related questions. 18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say something funny, but also true. 18:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I had injury. 18:42 [SPEAKER_01]: That's when I happened, who's some of this, one of the survivors. 18:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, some people had no memory of any of the other parallel nightmarish life that they had led or that there was still living until they had a major head injury. 18:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So out, everything shook up and suddenly I think came pouring in, but I'm just not a recommended 19:10 [SPEAKER_01]: a safe day sometimes it can be coming upon information. 19:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll one client I worked with the law. 19:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It was official in probably 1980. 19:21 [SPEAKER_01]: The first time these commercials came out when she was their two years older so and it's said if somebody is hurting you or touching you the wrong way or something like that, it's not your fault. 19:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was just that one little thing. 19:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Completely disrupted the mental framework that the abuser had set up and allowed her to say no. 19:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of what Jane was talking about. 19:47 [SPEAKER_01]: That was the moment where she said, wait a second, I'm the good person here and you're the bad person here. 19:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was a long, long, long decades, long. 19:57 [SPEAKER_01]: road after that, but that was the critical moment. 20:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It can be a video game, a movie, a book, something that wakes up the self-compassion and righteous anger. 20:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it is therapy where 20:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, oh, hard and the anxieties coming out or they're on a treadmill. 20:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to think of those little hamster wheels, we're running so hard trying to stay busy trying to do everything and there's this cloud of memory right behind them and they're trying to outrun it and they're running themselves into the ground and discover that they were running away from horrible memories for decades. 20:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I think it's maturity, having gotten past some of the life tasks of a 20 year old. 20:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So now I've proven to myself that I can be an independent person. 20:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I've conquered the basic challenges of life and proven to myself that I have the strength to do all of that. 21:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And now I'm strong enough to open up to things that I wouldn't have been able to. 21:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Think about before I'm sure there's a hundred other things I'm not thinking of right now, but in therapy when you come in with other symptoms and the therapist starts asking questions you what why do you think we're very afraid of people you're afraid to sit in the classroom you're afraid to walk into a store what is it that you fear what do you what do you fear might happen or. 21:33 [SPEAKER_01]: What are you thinking is in the minds of the other people? 21:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And then that can open up. 21:37 [SPEAKER_01]: They're thinking that I'm no good or I'm afraid they're going to hurt me or I'm afraid they're going to knock into me or I'm afraid of fiscal danger or whatever or you know all kinds of things can open up. 21:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Lachia, abuse that you saw from watching the keepers as well as from hearing gene explained more about what she went through. 21:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Would you say that this type of abuse is ritual abuse? 22:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It's horrible at use. 22:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It's orchestrated, it's calculated, it's networked, it's sadistic, it's psychologically manipulative, it's intelligent. 22:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Use is the authority of data's to make it more binding 22:21 [SPEAKER_01]: terrifying, humiliating, condemning. 22:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's calculated in all of those ways. 22:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I sound like there's hypnosis involved. 22:32 [SPEAKER_01]: That would fit many people's definition of ritual abuse. 22:36 [SPEAKER_01]: What does it even matter? 22:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, so people who have been subjected to the kind of ritual abuse where they were born into it, 22:44 [SPEAKER_01]: They were deliberately split personalities were induced to form deliberately by the time they were three years old. 22:50 [SPEAKER_01]: They were made to hurt and kill animals. 22:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And I won't even go further at a very young age. 22:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Malevolent deities were used to terrorize them. 23:01 [SPEAKER_01]: They were made to believe they married these deities. 23:03 [SPEAKER_01]: People who went through that kind of thing may say this is not ritual abuse because it doesn't include those particular things. 23:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, what matters is the paragraph, not the word. 23:18 [SPEAKER_01]: What matters is how devastating the abuse was. 23:25 [SPEAKER_01]: How some people have been subjected even more devastating stuff? 23:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, does that make this less devastating for the people who were subjected to this? 23:34 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not God. 23:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And I like these abusers. 23:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I know interesting. 23:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Glaming any special powers. 23:44 [SPEAKER_01]: that a person would use. 23:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think it matters. 23:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I think what matters is figuring out the specifics that were done and how the mind was manipulated and all the tactics that were used. 23:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So getting into the specifics of what they did and the effects that it had and how calculated it was. 24:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Like to realize that the feeling of him being a protector 24:12 [SPEAKER_01]: goal of this guy and how he did it, specifically how he orchestrated that. 24:20 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what's important for healing. 24:23 [SPEAKER_01]: To see to remember all the ways that he set that up and all the ways he exploited the survival instinct, 24:32 [SPEAKER_01]: The normal attachment dependence, hack animal stuff that we're all made of, the need for love is the goal, the goal is in the details is ritual abuse and diagnosis. 24:47 [SPEAKER_01]: No, is clergy abuse the diagnosis? 24:50 [SPEAKER_01]: No, is incest the diagnosis? 24:52 [SPEAKER_01]: No, those are braces that describe particular kinds of abuse. 24:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Diagnoses are their labels for the psychological impact of those things. 25:03 [SPEAKER_01]: PTSD is the diagnosis. 25:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Associate of Amnesia is a diagnosis, Associate of Identity Disorder is a diagnosis, anxiety, depression, those are diagnoses. 25:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Clinically, it does matter what kind of abuse the person was subjected to, but not the word. 25:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Press the state clergy abuse. 25:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Think about all the definitions of what that would include. 25:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Does it mean any abuse by clergy? 25:29 [SPEAKER_01]: OK, maybe. 25:30 [SPEAKER_01]: But there's a whole spectrum of severity, right? 25:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is a severe case, obviously, murder and terrorization and whole network manipulation of the mind. 25:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is very severe. 25:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you could have clergy abuse that's less severe. 25:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it happened only once. 25:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it wasn't terrifying. 25:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it was sexual touching without, you know, pain or terror or maybe it's these terms are not really helpful. 26:01 [SPEAKER_01]: They even diagnoses are not very helpful. 26:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't really tell us anything. 26:06 [SPEAKER_01]: What tells us something is like a general story. 26:09 [SPEAKER_01]: The story tells us something. 26:11 [SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned this a second ago as an official diagnosis, but what exactly is dissociative identity? 26:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to go DSM on you, diagnostic and statistical manual. 26:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll go more descriptive. 26:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's when a person has been subjected to trauma that was so overwhelming that the heart of the psyche 26:35 [SPEAKER_01]: that was there originally could not bear maintaining consciousness of it. 26:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And it relegates the awareness of either the could be shame, it can be terror, it can be rage into other aspects of self. 26:57 [SPEAKER_01]: that become associated with their own sense of self. 27:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a part in me named Sam Wu is full of rage. 27:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't afford to be. 27:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, angry at my parents who were using me because I depended on them, and if they knew I was angry, they would have hurt me even more because I had to be completely submissive and client. 27:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So I had this other part of me that carries this range and that part of me truly develops a name for itself. 27:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's its own trajectory and I've got, you know, another part that holds the memories of the sexual abuse because I can't stand knowing that in the part of me who's going to school and making friends and trying to read a book and keeping the trash can lid down. 27:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I got another part of me who I've got. 27:50 [SPEAKER_01]: the abuse holders, I've got the shame holders, I've got the part who wants to die of all of these, and maybe if they've got one who holds the memories of violent abuse, what involves the sexual abuse, I got another one who does the sexual response. 28:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So my abuser requires me to sexually respond, and I can't bear. 28:10 [SPEAKER_01]: knowing that in my consciousness, so I create a part who does that for me. 28:15 [SPEAKER_01]: That's her job. 28:16 [SPEAKER_01]: That's all she does. 28:18 [SPEAKER_01]: She thinks she likes it and because somebody had to because it was easier to like it than to hate it and to feel victimized. 28:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So I created a part who likes it. 28:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It's okay with her and that part pops in whenever I'm being put into that position. 28:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that would be a description of how it works. 28:39 [SPEAKER_00]: What different ways causes this? 28:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Overwhelming trauma, it can even be horrible medical trauma that's just more than the person can consciously bear feeling and but normally it's more abuse or being around abuse, terrorizing abuse that feels really dangerous. 28:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Some kind of danger, major threat, is just too much, too, and dorm experiencing all the time. 29:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Lector, why do some abusers work to cause victims to associate their memory? 29:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Because their assholes. 29:16 [SPEAKER_00]: There you go. 29:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Because there's self-serving assholes who don't want their victims to tell, who don't want their victims to remember the one completely compliant victims. 29:35 [SPEAKER_01]: so that they can knock on door when the victim is 25 years old with a certain pattern, knock and knock knock knock and that pulls up the five-year-old who takes the sexual abuse opens the door and lets the guy come in and rate. 29:48 [SPEAKER_01]: They exploit all of that for access to silence and for their own little God trips. 29:57 [SPEAKER_01]: trying to destroy that kernel that Jean was talking about, that kernel, the deepest, most innocent pure, good, holy, knowing, it's good, leaving in love part of the self. 30:10 [SPEAKER_01]: They want to try to get to that. 30:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to interject, too, that I think with mascot for my personal others will have other interpretation. 30:19 [SPEAKER_03]: But I believe that when Kathy Sessnik had enough information 30:24 [SPEAKER_03]: that she was not going to let this girl on, especially since she was moving on. 30:29 [SPEAKER_03]: I believe she addressed him. 30:31 [SPEAKER_03]: When I came back to school after that summer, he was furious. 30:37 [SPEAKER_03]: And he told me someone's been saying that I've been hurting the girls. 30:42 [SPEAKER_03]: You wouldn't say that would you? 30:43 [SPEAKER_03]: As you just said, Dr. Lachter, I believe it was a God trip. 30:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I knew it was a power trip. 30:50 [SPEAKER_03]: He thought that none of these girls with what he had already been doing, whatever say anything. 30:57 [SPEAKER_03]: And when he found out that what he had been doing wasn't enough, it intensified. 31:02 [SPEAKER_03]: It could not afford. 31:05 [SPEAKER_03]: anyone say it ever again. 31:07 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think that up to that point, God loved Tassie because I think that she did what she or heart had or to, but I believe that up to that point, he really thought he had us under his thumb. 31:23 [SPEAKER_03]: And when he had heard that, 31:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Someone was actually giving some indication that there was something going on that wasn't good. 31:33 [SPEAKER_03]: He was gonna make sure that never happened again. 31:36 [SPEAKER_03]: So I do think that part of it is that God tripped that power the power over others. 31:44 [SPEAKER_01]: They wanted total control over all of these full control of their minds. 31:49 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that when she addressed him, what he realized was, that was the truth. 31:55 [SPEAKER_03]: It was messed up. 31:57 [SPEAKER_03]: That this could go, there wasn't just going to be the ladies and the 32:06 [SPEAKER_03]: The teachers who would turn the blind eye for what I experienced, I'm going to teach you a thing in the room. 32:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Since the beginning of James' memory's surfacing, she refers to the chaplain's office on the first floor of KEO High School as the room. 32:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Why the police were showing up like they're a part of protection. 32:27 [SPEAKER_03]: She had a game going on and I think when she addressed him, I think she talked about the chore. 32:34 [SPEAKER_03]: My personal experience was after that it was beyond hell. 32:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that what he realized was oh shit, this can get out of hand really quick and I better draw it in because I thought what I was doing was enough. 32:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you saying that you actually experienced him become more ferocious after confronted him? 32:58 [SPEAKER_03]: 100% he became more ferocious the day he called me to his room when she wasn't there clue anymore. 33:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Now she would not dead nor missing. 33:08 [SPEAKER_03]: But he called me to his room. 33:10 [SPEAKER_03]: I was never 33:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And so, Drip's was where I come back to school thinking it's augmenting care because what she had told me and all this time, I get actually clad to his room. 33:28 [SPEAKER_03]: He had to remind me who the whole had was in the room. 33:31 [SPEAKER_03]: He was making his point. 33:33 [SPEAKER_03]: You do not freight anything about what goes on in this room. 33:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying that was a metaphorical not to make you believe that you're the 31. 33:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to know what you think about this. 33:45 [SPEAKER_03]: She was not alone. 33:46 [SPEAKER_03]: When she was being told with the idea that he's bad, while that's a church once the act of that was in the past, there were a lot of people in the ring. 33:56 [SPEAKER_03]: They were gone. 33:56 [SPEAKER_03]: They were all kinds of places they came from. 34:00 [SPEAKER_03]: They would be mentored by the man. 34:03 [SPEAKER_03]: They were actually being allowed to do things that they would never have thought to do. 34:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Once you pass that line, once you're given that permission, especially from somebody who has that kind of authority, then what do they do? 34:18 [SPEAKER_03]: What do they do they go with that? 34:20 [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't matter that he's dead. 34:22 [SPEAKER_03]: My concern is, 34:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Where did all those other genres, let's say, or abusers, what have been doing? 34:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And if you don't think that what it is, and if the archdiocese does not say that they were accountable for harboring this man and moving him around to have more victims than those people are given permission to continue doing what they learned from the master. 34:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I think all we can do is continue to put pressure on Catholic Church and all other institutions to develop true policies to honestly investigate on behalf of the truth. 35:08 [SPEAKER_01]: not to act in their own interest of protecting their institution. 35:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure you're familiar with the concepts of betrayal, trauma, and institution. 35:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Betrayal, every institution does it. 35:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Purchase, notorious for it. 35:24 [SPEAKER_01]: University's do it. 35:25 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of spittles do it. 35:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Mental health clinics will 35:29 [SPEAKER_01]: often hide some therapist gets accused of abusing a patient and the clinic has a choice. 35:37 [SPEAKER_01]: They're either going to approach this with integrity to find out what really happened or they're going to go away to minute. 35:45 [SPEAKER_01]: The clinic might be sued and supervisor might be sued and then they 35:51 [SPEAKER_01]: try to tell the patient the their blame the therapist to the patient to the other therapist the patient to disclose this to or whatever institutions act that any organisms that protect themselves and I think that we've got it with Hollywood now where people are saying 36:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Wait a second, this is a serious big problem and we've got a pressure on these institutions to honestly take these reports seriously. 36:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know maybe part of the problem is in the legal system, the way everybody's afraid of getting sued for one person's role. 36:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never had a psychological assistant because of friend of mine had an intern. 36:31 [SPEAKER_01]: the molested his patient and my friend got sued because he was her supervising. 36:39 [SPEAKER_01]: But you can see how all of that can create a lot of problems. 36:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a very serious problem. 36:47 [SPEAKER_01]: The government, right? 36:48 [SPEAKER_01]: When somebody in government gets accused of doing something, there's all kinds of political mechanisms that can protect us just really, you know, 36:59 [SPEAKER_01]: The victim is usually the little guy and the abuser is usually the person with a lot of power. 37:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got no simple answer for this except for us all to try to wake everybody up every little bit matters. 37:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Every 100 people listen to this show and feel more empowered and begin to not submit or 37:21 [SPEAKER_01]: go into therapy and reclaim their true self and all those things all matter, but it's a pretty big problem the way institutions protect themselves like an individual living organism rather than pairing about the victims who are hurt within the institution. 37:50 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
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