0:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah! 0:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, do you love adventure? 0:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you love outdoor sports? 0:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you like to learn more and hear from amazing adventure athletes from all over the world? 0:22 [SPEAKER_01]: If so, then check out the Adventure Sports Podcast. 0:26 [SPEAKER_01]: We've been the premier platform for sharing adventure for more than 10 years now. 0:32 [SPEAKER_01]: We help you get your adventure on. 0:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Look for the Adventure Sports Podcast wherever you find your podcasts. 0:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Get out there and have some fun. 0:55 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you. 1:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Today, we actually have some people who, many of the listeners have been asking to hear more about, and that is Joyce Molecki's family, Darrell Pat and Diane. 1:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Diane, you're actually married to Darrell? 1:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that's correct. 1:32 [SPEAKER_02]: So welcome guys and of course Jim is also on the line. 1:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Hello. 1:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't pat it was awesome meeting you guys while we were in Baltimore. 1:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Like for one of you guys to summarize for me, Joyce's story. 1:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I know that you guys are one of four, right? 1:47 [SPEAKER_02]: There's four of you. 1:48 [SPEAKER_06]: There are four brothers. 1:49 [SPEAKER_06]: And look, let's do sister. 1:51 [SPEAKER_06]: Linda, Linda, right? 1:52 [SPEAKER_06]: This is Darrell. 1:53 [SPEAKER_06]: I can start off with one of the questions because it did this here as far as the car switching. 1:59 [SPEAKER_06]: Again, I was working at Gino's office. 2:02 [SPEAKER_06]: So go have new and bought a more marijuana and she had came up to the store and wanted to switch cars. 2:09 [SPEAKER_06]: I had my parents call her and her car which is much older. 2:13 [SPEAKER_06]: And I guess we felt less reliable. 2:16 [SPEAKER_06]: that she wanted to use their car to go shopping. 2:20 [SPEAKER_06]: And of course there's no problem. 2:22 [SPEAKER_06]: May I just had to go home. 2:23 [SPEAKER_06]: And I was the last one in the family to see her alive. 2:28 [SPEAKER_06]: Everything that happened was it was a shot. 2:32 [SPEAKER_06]: and it's still a shock what happened to our sister and again we would still all love to know what happened to our sister. 2:40 [SPEAKER_06]: We know as far as the person, the culprit who took her life, she disappeared again. 2:46 [SPEAKER_06]: It's just a shock and even sitting here talking now almost 50 years later, it's hard to talk about. 2:53 [SPEAKER_06]: We would love to have some closure. 2:55 [SPEAKER_06]: It was a good surprise for us the family goes. 2:58 [SPEAKER_06]: I was the youngest at sitting next to me as the oldest, as far as the family we had a good relationship. 3:06 [SPEAKER_06]: There was no lighting amongst the siblings or anything like that. 3:10 [SPEAKER_06]: But I was so myself, I've been the youngest, I was kind of like, let out of a lot of things and involved with Joyce, because she told her she was dating. 3:20 [SPEAKER_06]: And she would have a little brother with her. 3:23 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, like I said, we got a long extremely well. 3:27 [SPEAKER_06]: And with that, Pat, he can tell us about he used to Joyce use to wrestle around with her and all this kind of stuff. 3:36 [SPEAKER_06]: But again, day in the 60th, everybody had their own life, everybody went their own direction. 3:43 [SPEAKER_06]: And we, again, I keep saying it was just a shock to us as to what happened and then who would do that? 3:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Can you give us an idea what her plan to work for that night to your knowledge? 3:57 [SPEAKER_06]: The mind, all she wanted to do was switch to cars, gentlemen. 4:00 [SPEAKER_06]: We, if I had no problem with it all, we didn't live that far from where, you know, is located, but I was just one to get home, but he was going to a lot more writing around. 4:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you know if she had, there's story that she was at a shopping mall and that she was going to see her boyfriend and do you know if she had those plans? 4:18 [SPEAKER_06]: At the time, no, I did not. 4:20 [SPEAKER_06]: But she did tell her mother where she was going. 4:24 [SPEAKER_06]: And that's how I started, I wasn't involved, but when they started, my brother started looking for a car, one brother, Jerry, who did this up in Pennsylvania. 4:35 [SPEAKER_06]: He was the one that actually found a car, going by my mother said the location as she was going to go in. 4:42 [SPEAKER_06]: You know, one almost caught me and that's where the boon town, that's when, you know, it's the main road that was going through there, and that's where Jerry found a car. 4:51 [SPEAKER_06]: You know, to find your artist. 4:53 [SPEAKER_03]: So your mother knew where she was going. 4:55 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, but I was completely out of the loop. 4:59 [SPEAKER_04]: And what's boom? 5:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Is that boom town? 5:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Is that what it was called? 5:02 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, back in the day, boom, piano and piano. 5:05 [SPEAKER_06]: It was just a little strip of chops along the main road. 5:09 [SPEAKER_06]: And their liquor store, there was, I think, as gas station and stuff like that. 5:14 [SPEAKER_06]: Again, I was not familiar with the area until later going down to see where the car was found. 5:21 [SPEAKER_06]: And of course now it's all has changed. 5:24 [SPEAKER_06]: It's still in the process of change. 5:26 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a time when Joyce disappeared. 5:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I believe she was 20. 5:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Was she working that day? 5:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Or where did she work at? 5:32 [SPEAKER_06]: This was in the evening because again, that's all I work with. 5:38 [SPEAKER_06]: And she was working for a liquor franchise or something on Washington Boulevard. 5:46 [SPEAKER_06]: It wasn't a liquor store. 5:47 [SPEAKER_06]: The My Knowledge was a distributor. 5:49 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. 5:50 [SPEAKER_04]: You remember where on Washington Boulevard? 5:52 [SPEAKER_06]: The best of my recollection Washington Boulevard where we live in lands down. 5:59 [SPEAKER_06]: You go down Hammond's very road. 6:02 [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm trying to think north of the south of it, but anyhow, if you go towards the city, and it would go to Washington Boulevard. 6:10 [SPEAKER_06]: Now they built a new road laying down Boulevard that actually ended on another section of Washington Boulevard, and it was located between those two areas, which is probably a couple miles. 6:25 [SPEAKER_06]: So it was more right in landstown than in health or actually more I think in and out the outskirts. 6:32 [SPEAKER_06]: I think it was probably Baltimore City in Baltimore County. 6:35 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it was still put it right on to the city county line, but it was in Baltimore City not far from PL. 6:42 [SPEAKER_04]: And do you know what her job was there? 6:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was a secretary. 6:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I know that on November 11th is when this all happened. 6:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's when you guys treated vehicles. 6:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Were you the last one to see Joyce? 6:53 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, just momentary. 6:54 [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't up the switch keys. 6:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And that was it. 6:57 [SPEAKER_02]: At what point in the day did you guys start realizing that something didn't seem right? 7:02 [SPEAKER_06]: The next day. 7:03 [SPEAKER_06]: Because to which wasn't the none of us, really, despite the people that he would go somewhere and not come home. 7:11 [SPEAKER_06]: And that was a flag that went up where it was joys, and if that's never happened. 7:16 [SPEAKER_04]: were you all living at home at that time? 7:17 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, you were over home. 7:19 [SPEAKER_06]: Trying to think what day of the week that was because if there was a school day, I would have went to school. 7:26 [SPEAKER_03]: The kids were still all living. 7:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah. 7:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Nobody had to use that. 7:29 [SPEAKER_06]: Nobody had to use that. 7:30 [SPEAKER_06]: Nobody had to use that. 7:31 [SPEAKER_04]: So when she didn't come home during the night, and everybody else was home, do you guys remember thinking, OK, they have to admit, night, where's Joyce? 7:42 [SPEAKER_05]: The next morning, my mother got up. 7:46 [SPEAKER_05]: He immediately came over to me and said she wasn't home. 7:50 [SPEAKER_05]: And I said, she had a girl front of me called her Bivie. 7:55 [SPEAKER_05]: I said, she's probably a Bivie path. 7:58 [SPEAKER_05]: That's a nice. 7:58 [SPEAKER_05]: So, she called Bivie and she hadn't seen Julie. 8:03 [SPEAKER_05]: We all got in her heart and we went out to our local board. 8:07 [SPEAKER_05]: And that's when Jerry found a car and then boomed out. 8:15 [SPEAKER_05]: because it didn't have cell phones back then. 8:18 [SPEAKER_05]: When Jerry found, he called my mother, and the rest of us, when we checked in, that's when she told us where it was. 8:28 [SPEAKER_05]: So we immediately all went over to where the car was and met there and met with a police. 8:36 [SPEAKER_05]: That was pretty much about it because right away the police grabbed it, the vehicle and took it away. 8:44 [SPEAKER_06]: what they think we're going to do, but what Pat's taught and this is there, I would Pat would taught Pat there, I would not fall because I didn't have far yet, and I'm probably going to school, I'm sure I did it. 8:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that day was a Tuesday, so you probably did? 8:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 8:57 [SPEAKER_04]: I have a question, I have spoken to a relative of Demi, and the relative told me that she was younger, she has to watch Joyce and Demi getting ready to go out. 9:09 [SPEAKER_04]: I think she lived next 9:13 [SPEAKER_04]: like talk about what a creepy was and like making fun of him. 9:18 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a young woman who she's younger than I am. 9:22 [SPEAKER_04]: She was either Bimmie's cousin or I think it was her cousin. 9:29 [SPEAKER_04]: And she spoke to me and said that as a rule they would make fun of him. 9:36 [SPEAKER_04]: And she also told me that Bimmie is the one that Joyce had a routine when she was going to see her boyfriend that she would call him 9:47 [SPEAKER_04]: from the convenience store, tell him she was on her way and then she hit the horn two times outside his barracks and then he would come out. 9:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Does any of that sound familiar to you? 10:02 [SPEAKER_05]: No, that does not sound familiar at all because for one thing, 10:14 [SPEAKER_05]: who was on his way. 10:15 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if anybody was in a military, but I was. 10:19 [SPEAKER_05]: And if we had any visitor home, we went to the day room, not the barracks. 10:24 [SPEAKER_04]: It would have been possible for her to plot outside the barracks because the Vemys told me was that he would, when Joyce would call him, he would get his things together and be waiting. 10:36 [SPEAKER_04]: And then actually that night, the Warren beat two times and he went out and nobody was there. 10:42 [SPEAKER_05]: okay. 10:43 [SPEAKER_05]: Star with as I understood it, he and her boyfriend was in the day room. 10:49 [SPEAKER_05]: That's the barracks, okay. 10:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Whenever you have a visitor, you went to the day room. 10:53 [SPEAKER_05]: The day room is a building where relatives can come, where family members are whatever can come over, and visit with whoever was in the military. 11:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Now the other thing is calling him, 11:08 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if that would be, but the day room, when I was in the airport, our day room had six telephones, and they were all papers, so she would have to know the number of whatever it was. 11:22 [SPEAKER_05]: And I also understand from the talking with the FBI that they interviewed everyone that was in the day room, and he had never left and they were never a phone call. 11:38 [SPEAKER_04]: What I'll do for all of you is I will go back and check with her. 11:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I have her name and her contact information and maybe I can get her to write everything down and then share it with you. 11:49 [SPEAKER_04]: But that would be great. 11:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay. 11:51 [SPEAKER_05]: And the other thing that was just brought up was, 12:05 [SPEAKER_05]: This was news to me. 12:07 [SPEAKER_05]: At the time, I wasn't living at home. 12:11 [SPEAKER_05]: I was there when she left. 12:13 [SPEAKER_05]: Only because I burnt away from her with us. 12:16 [SPEAKER_05]: And I was staying with my book. 12:18 [SPEAKER_05]: But prior to that, I had no idea that she knew about her. 12:22 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, there's that one thing over saying climate church for a while. 12:26 [SPEAKER_04]: That takes us to our second question. 12:28 [SPEAKER_04]: What was your family's connection with the St. Clement's parish? 12:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Where was the pastor? 12:33 [SPEAKER_06]: That's where we went to church every Sunday. 12:36 [SPEAKER_06]: And that's where we went to Sunday school. 12:37 [SPEAKER_05]: We were brought up Catholic. 12:39 [SPEAKER_05]: And we went to Catholic school at St. Clement. 12:43 [SPEAKER_05]: And we went to church every Sunday at 10. 12:46 [SPEAKER_05]: Clement. 12:47 [SPEAKER_06]: But again, this is Darrell. 12:49 [SPEAKER_06]: I was the step into the rule. 12:51 [SPEAKER_06]: I only went there at first grade, and then I would remove I actually failed, but anyhow, and I went to public school, but I still went to Mass and Sunday School at St. Clemens. 13:03 [SPEAKER_06]: And what I understand from my mother is there was a little confrontation 13:10 [SPEAKER_06]: with joists, and somebody, and I thought it was a none, but again, I was kind of very young. 13:17 [SPEAKER_06]: That smacked it with a roar or something like that, and it decided to take us in and went to public school. 13:23 [SPEAKER_06]: And at the public school, we went to, it was right to block from thing climates. 13:28 [SPEAKER_06]: It's been torn down now, and it actually, the directory, 13:33 [SPEAKER_06]: on first Avenue and walked up the front door and he looked directly across the road that's where his school was. 13:40 [SPEAKER_04]: The public school? 13:41 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. 13:41 [SPEAKER_04]: So if you all were part of St. Clement's parish and he was one of the priests there, you said that you didn't even know Joyce knew him. 13:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Did you all not know 14:01 [SPEAKER_05]: The whole time I was in public and in the Catholic school, Father Bern was the one who passed her to the school there. 14:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Looking for a game that's fun, relaxing, and gives classic solitaire a fresh twist, solitaire clash, spelled CLASH, brings skill, speed, and strategy together in a way that makes every round feel rewarding. 14:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just solitaire as you know it, it's solitaire elevated. 14:26 [SPEAKER_00]: With competitive modes and even the chance to win real cash. 14:29 [SPEAKER_00]: In the middle of a busy day, it's more important than ever to carve out a moment for yourself, whether it's during a commute while waiting for a ride or taking a quick pause to breathe. 14:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Solitaire Clash offers a simple, satisfying escape. 14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: A couple fast rounds can calm your mind to challenge your focus and give you that little boost you didn't realize you needed. 14:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's perfect for those in-between moments. 14:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Familiar enough to jump right in, but dynamic enough to keep things interesting. 14:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Each match is quick, skill-driven, and packed with that just one more game feeling. 14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So, if it's been a while, take a moment to open Solitaire Clash. 15:03 [SPEAKER_00]: CL-ASH, play a few rounds, unwind, and enjoy the fun, and maybe even win a little while you're at it. 15:10 [SPEAKER_02]: life can get overwhelming and talking to someone can make all the difference. 15:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 15:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and as little as a couple of days. 15:29 [SPEAKER_02]: You can connect by message, phone or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 15:35 [SPEAKER_02]: And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, 15:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Better help include a journal for personal reflection and daily group sessions on a variety of topics and they accept each essay and FSA cards. 15:51 [SPEAKER_02]: with over 2,000,000 users, and a 4. star rating on trust pilot. 15:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Better help is a trusted platform for accessible mental health care. 16:01 [SPEAKER_02]: If you think you could benefit from therapy, visit betterhelp.com, choose our podcast during sign-up, and get 10% off your first month. 16:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Taking care of your mental health is a sign of strength. 16:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Start your journey today. 16:16 [SPEAKER_05]: And then I guess he retired or whatever that would be. 16:20 [SPEAKER_04]: And so were you all not still in the school when mask will took over? 16:24 [SPEAKER_05]: No, we were. 16:25 [SPEAKER_05]: I was that. 16:26 [SPEAKER_04]: And you said your family went to mass. 16:28 [SPEAKER_04]: She may have known him just as the priest who was saying mass or confessions or possible. 16:35 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, and we did go to confection and I was so good. 16:37 [SPEAKER_06]: I had to make up things. 16:39 [SPEAKER_04]: If you said you lied two times and it was really three you went back in again and said one more No, I did went out and did my hell Mary is in our file. 16:49 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm serious. 16:49 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's typical the lot of us, right? 16:52 [SPEAKER_04]: I think I did this again. 16:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Did your family have any connection with K.O. 16:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Archbishop K.O. 16:58 [SPEAKER_04]: High School? 16:59 [SPEAKER_06]: Now, again, we're sitting here, but this is just all aside, my wife went to kill. 17:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Right. 17:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I did. 17:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Diane, do you remember what year you graduated? 17:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Of course you remember, when did you graduate? 17:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I only went there for 1910 straight. 17:15 [SPEAKER_03]: So I did not graduate from there. 17:22 [SPEAKER_04]: When did you graduate from landstown high? 17:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I graduated 71. 17:26 [SPEAKER_04]: You would have been a KIO when Sister Kathy was teaching there. 17:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah. 17:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yes. 17:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I remember her. 17:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I recall. 17:34 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm hoping this is great. 17:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I was part of the Fage crew one year and didn't she run the drama stuff there as she did. 17:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks to me, I remember her from that. 17:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you know Father Massacre, or do you remember him at all? 17:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I remember Father Massacre because I went to our lady of victory. 17:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I was going to do it him back then. 17:56 [SPEAKER_03]: I know him from then. 17:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 17:58 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why I went to elementary school. 18:01 [SPEAKER_03]: That's where my husband and I were married. 18:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Not by my mask, although. 18:06 [SPEAKER_03]: But I remember him from there. 18:07 [SPEAKER_03]: And what I remember, I noticed that he was such a nasty person. 18:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Was he the pastor at our Lady of Victory for a while? 18:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I think he was. 18:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I think he was. 18:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I remember other priests being there. 18:19 [SPEAKER_03]: I remember a father Peacock. 18:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, being pastor at one time and he was very nice. 18:24 [SPEAKER_03]: I like him. 18:25 [SPEAKER_03]: And there was a father warmman there who was great too, but I remember father mass for a lot of time being really negative harsh, a very harsh person when he said mass the sermon was always something where he just made people feel terrible instead of trying to lift them up and give them some good connection. 18:49 [SPEAKER_03]: with church and with God. 18:50 [SPEAKER_02]: He, with us, care people down, and rid of evil people that is surprised you to hear about the abuse, much later. 18:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Not really, not really. 19:00 [SPEAKER_04]: I have a note here that at some point, you're the Malekky family, like, bought a patron or something for the yearbook. 19:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Does that sound familiar? 19:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I think Tom Nugent told me that like when the yearbook comes to people by ads to help 19:18 [SPEAKER_06]: We have the yearbook, and yes, because I was looking through the paper and then it was my grandmother Stella, and then under after that was the molecular family. 19:29 [SPEAKER_06]: Now they live south Baltimore on Ford Avenue. 19:33 [SPEAKER_04]: And what yearbook is that? 19:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Which year? 19:35 [SPEAKER_06]: I can go check. 19:37 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we can check it. 19:37 [SPEAKER_04]: That's interesting though, because I guess how would your grandmother and your family have have bought that space. 19:46 [SPEAKER_06]: I was surprised when I saw that in the patrons and that's what I brought it to Diane and she trying to get my tent now. 19:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Let me in there all question and Pat, maybe you know it. 19:58 [SPEAKER_03]: But it just came to me. 19:59 [SPEAKER_03]: I wonder if since your grandmother lived in South Baltimore wonder if any of the other kids. 20:07 [SPEAKER_03]: that live the relatives that live there, one of their squirrels go to T.O. 20:11 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we were just not one doors or asked our family to buy a, I guess it was like five bucks or something to have your unless it was a square or a white square with a business and it, they still do that too. 20:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 20:23 [SPEAKER_04]: So your grandmother, Della, lived on Fort Abano, which she had belonged to Holy Cross parish. 20:31 [SPEAKER_06]: That went to, that's where you start school, right? 20:34 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, originally, I went to 1st grade at our lady of Victor, because we lived on 4th Avenue at the time. 20:42 [SPEAKER_05]: I used to take the bus down, coach our lady of Victor, but I only did that for 1st grade. 20:47 [SPEAKER_05]: That's when we moved from South Baltimore to Lansing, Baltimore County. 20:53 [SPEAKER_02]: The next question I have, I'd like to ask you guys what you think happened to Joyce, but before that, I just want to catch our listeners up. 21:00 [SPEAKER_02]: So it was four days after Sister Kathy disappeared, that is when Tuesday, November the 11th. 21:07 [SPEAKER_02]: This is the day that Joyce disappeared. 21:10 [SPEAKER_02]: It was the next day, on Wednesday, when you guys discovered her car, and then of course, the day after that is when she was found by two hunters, 21:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I've read two reports. 21:19 [SPEAKER_02]: One that says, as she was found by the two hunters were build building a deer blind, another news article said that it was too much for hunters. 21:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure which one which one is accurate. 21:30 [SPEAKER_02]: But what do you guys think happened to Joyce it's now been 50 years, do you guys have any idea what could have happened. 21:38 [SPEAKER_06]: I would I believe that. 21:41 [SPEAKER_06]: her boyfriend or the person she was dating was involved, but again, here for having a couple meetings with the FBI, and they assured us that they had interviewed them and interviewed her by round that now that I don't believe that I didn't even know. 21:56 [SPEAKER_06]: because once again, Gemma, we had talked about this, was since this incident happened, we were completely out of Luke with the FBI with everybody. 22:07 [SPEAKER_06]: They never contacted us, and the game was ending up date. 22:11 [SPEAKER_06]: My brother Donald, he actually went to FBI office, I believe, in an afflous, and tried to get some updates, and they just blew him off and just knocked them 22:25 [SPEAKER_04]: What is your gut telling you happened to Joyce that night? 22:29 [SPEAKER_05]: The one thing that sticks to my head is why she was in the parking lot of a liquor store. 22:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Joyce was not a great, the only other thing that I could think of is she was, I thought her early, that when she was in a car, no matter where she went, she locked the door. 22:47 [SPEAKER_05]: She had the pool over for a reason, 22:55 [SPEAKER_05]: because she was pulled over by a cop. 22:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Now that's going to grow, there was a cop. 23:00 [SPEAKER_05]: So what was she doing in the park and a lot of the liquor school? 23:04 [SPEAKER_05]: She was 20, she wasn't, she couldn't buy liquor back then, and she didn't break the store one. 23:09 [SPEAKER_05]: That sticks to the money. 23:11 [SPEAKER_02]: When we were meeting in person, you told us a story about someone that worked in that liquor store, and the fact that Joyce's car was there, can you remind me what that was? 23:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, according to the FBI, one of our meetings, we found out that we wanted to do 23:33 [SPEAKER_05]: She told us that they interviewed everybody that was in that day room with her boyfriend. 23:38 [SPEAKER_05]: He never left nobody ever came in. 23:41 [SPEAKER_05]: They also served for me and the barracks areas and he even went on the roots because Joyce's talk about when they were found at her first in her family. 23:53 [SPEAKER_05]: Also, they said that when they interviewed the owner, he said, 24:03 [SPEAKER_05]: later on that night when he closed up. 24:05 [SPEAKER_05]: He went back after her car was there but it was not in the same spot that he originally thought. 24:11 [SPEAKER_05]: So the car was there all night. 24:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Are we correct that was a bar and liquor store? 24:17 [SPEAKER_06]: I did as far as I know it was a bar. 24:19 [SPEAKER_06]: I'll think it was a liquor store. 24:21 [SPEAKER_06]: That's what I understood also. 24:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Diane, do you have thoughts about, I'm on all this about what you think happened? 24:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I really think that I always thought that the boyfriend had something to do with it, but they're 24:36 [SPEAKER_06]: gave us a lot more details than about the interview. 24:41 [SPEAKER_06]: They told us that they interviewed everybody that went with the associate with this guy, him extensively, and they ruled him out. 24:50 [SPEAKER_06]: So I'm going by with the FBI said, but for a year, I thought there was some kind of connection. 24:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I do have to clarify, at the time that all this happened, I had just met Darrell. 25:04 [SPEAKER_03]: because I had just gone to the school. 25:07 [SPEAKER_03]: It was a new school for me. 25:08 [SPEAKER_03]: And I had just that in me within my class. 25:12 [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember when it all happened, seeing his family on television and saying to my parents, I know that guy is in a class at school. 25:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I never met Joyce. 25:24 [SPEAKER_03]: But I remember just from all the information, I always just said that the boyfriend, her boyfriend had something to do with it. 25:30 [SPEAKER_04]: How recently has the FBI been in touch with your family? 25:34 [SPEAKER_06]: Jamma, we were just talking about all tying in myself or just talking about that prior to pack coming over here. 25:41 [SPEAKER_06]: And we want to say a year ago, then it was two of them. 25:44 [SPEAKER_06]: And again, we keep explaining that we have gotten informed about anything. 25:49 [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, there were young guys, new role-powered jetty, but they had nothing to do with it. 25:55 [SPEAKER_06]: but that they're on the case now. 25:57 [SPEAKER_06]: And again, since then, we haven't heard of things. 26:01 [SPEAKER_06]: So it's really frustrating. 26:03 [SPEAKER_06]: And I know they think my opinion is, they're just waiting for contact by somebody say, hey, I know this and follow up on it. 26:10 [SPEAKER_06]: But I don't know. 26:12 [SPEAKER_06]: I just went and retrieved the yearbook in its 1969. 26:17 [SPEAKER_06]: That's where the acknowledgment or the patrons 26:21 [SPEAKER_04]: I do remember seeing the family paper and thing that maybe your grandmother took care of. 26:26 [SPEAKER_04]: We've already talked about why you guys switched cars and you're saying, Darrell, that was you, right? 26:33 [SPEAKER_07]: Yes. 26:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Because your car was simply in better shape than the one choice would have been. 26:39 [SPEAKER_06]: I had my parents' car. 26:41 [SPEAKER_06]: I did not have a car. 26:42 [SPEAKER_06]: I was only 17 and they let me take it when it was back morning where they just let me take it to 26:49 [SPEAKER_06]: and come home and, like, say, it's a secret time to which was going to do her shopping. 26:54 [SPEAKER_06]: And just came up and said, that's it. 26:55 [SPEAKER_06]: I can switch cards. 26:56 [SPEAKER_06]: I said, yeah, sure. 26:57 [SPEAKER_06]: I had no problem. 26:58 [SPEAKER_06]: She just left the turkey. 26:59 [SPEAKER_04]: And that was because that car was more reliable in terms of her driving right. 27:04 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and it was only two years old. 27:06 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, because our listeners and everybody on the capers, they have come up with all these crazy theories about why you switched cars and but it was pretty simple. 27:30 [SPEAKER_04]: that makes sense to simple answer. 27:33 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, and that's the whole thing. 27:34 [SPEAKER_06]: There's no mystery to it. 27:36 [SPEAKER_06]: And I say, I guess she felt going out shopping and where she was going, she didn't built more comfortable taking her parent part. 27:43 [SPEAKER_02]: When you guys were contacted by the filmmakers for the keepers, what were your thoughts back then? 27:49 [SPEAKER_06]: I can speak for myself. 27:51 [SPEAKER_06]: It was excitement. 27:52 [SPEAKER_06]: It was that something that it didn't just eye and go away and that somebody was interested in the stories and was going to make a documentary about it. 28:00 [SPEAKER_06]: I was very excited about it and I've watched it two or three four times. 28:06 [SPEAKER_02]: At you are the one who people will probably remember from the keepers, didn't you have to go identify choice? 28:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I did. 28:14 [SPEAKER_02]: What were your thoughts when the filmmakers were wanting you guys to be involved to help tell choice and story? 28:20 [SPEAKER_05]: Pretty much the same as they're all the men. 28:23 [SPEAKER_05]: God, somebody could look into this and maybe something will come out of it. 28:26 [SPEAKER_06]: That's what we were hoping, and it had created some people a lot of interest, but time to keep going March and long, packing them back to the identification for this is pretty sad too. 28:39 [SPEAKER_04]: What's your family's opinion of how what kinds of things have happened since the capers was released? 28:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Like you said the FBI met with you about a year ago, but we also know that Abby filed a Freedom of Information Act to get Joyce's files five years ago. 28:58 [SPEAKER_04]: So the government's way over time, the only option we would have would be to sue the government, and that's not going to work because number one, we have no budget. 29:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Number two, that would take probably longer than if we just wait. 29:13 [SPEAKER_04]: But there's 4,000 pages. 29:16 [SPEAKER_04]: in her files and we've been told or Abby's have struck of that have been told that it's still awaiting an analyst because the government can get 10 small files out turned around and release in the time it would take or one person to sit down and go through those 4,000 pages. 29:39 [SPEAKER_04]: So what's your sense of you feel like since the FBI met with you and since both officer to you and Gary Childs, I believe have met with your family that things are moving and that's why they're holding the files back. 29:54 [SPEAKER_05]: Along with that darling husband, a brother-in-law, off-the-file to improve on the creation act to get the file and nothing's ever been done for him either. 30:07 [SPEAKER_04]: you've got nothing. 30:08 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, you know, that was exciting, because we, you know, we all felt something going to happen. 30:12 [SPEAKER_06]: And since that, we, and before and after, we had these meetings, which were, it was in courage. 30:18 [SPEAKER_06]: Again, we were hoping that something would come up, but what we have heard and pat, you can back me up on this, that this is very discouraging to me and everybody and family that apparently 30:37 [SPEAKER_06]: got rid of it, which on a homicide case, the nobody has ever heard of, that is, that's really mind-boggling, but often to these FBI got very young, they just stepped into it. 30:51 [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't know if they backed that statement up, did they get rid of evidence? 30:56 [SPEAKER_06]: My goodness, they had one sample 31:02 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and she had because apparently, and we heard this from that a long time ago that apparently Joyce put up a fight. 31:13 [SPEAKER_06]: She didn't go down to this, and that happened because she had scraping up underneath her fingernails. 31:20 [SPEAKER_05]: So she did put up a fight and it's all gone. 31:31 [SPEAKER_05]: that they got all my father's car, and they were going to take the tape off with a finger print and go in and see if they could get any DNA off of the print itself. 31:44 [SPEAKER_06]: It's a new process. 31:45 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and we've never heard anything more about that. 31:48 [SPEAKER_05]: He's now the only thing that we did 31:58 [SPEAKER_04]: the files and there was 4,000 pages and she explained to me that although she's bought a more county that at the time the two murders bought a more county and the FBI had a joint test mission because they felt like the two murders were connected so because they had 32:23 [SPEAKER_04]: That gave her the opportunity to get her foot in the door. 32:27 [SPEAKER_04]: She told me she could not copy anything or take anything. 32:31 [SPEAKER_04]: But she was able to look at the files. 32:35 [SPEAKER_04]: So what she's telling you is absolutely correct. 32:39 [SPEAKER_02]: We do know that in the mid-90s around 1995, that is when, for some reason, the evidence that they were have that they had for choice's case that it was destroyed. 32:50 [SPEAKER_02]: I know that we mentioned that together, we were talking about it when we were with in person. 32:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And to me, that's also very weird because I've double checked with people who I know that have worked for the FBI before. 33:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think that from anyone who I've spoken to, that is a standard procedure. 33:10 [SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't make sense to me, especially because in the mid-90s they could have tested it for DNA. 33:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And done more things to help. 33:18 [SPEAKER_02]: later test for DNA. 33:20 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just it's weird that the evidence was destroyed. 33:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And again, everyone will also recognize that is when the Jane row in Doke's was coming forward at the time. 33:31 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it sounds awful to strange to us. 33:34 [SPEAKER_06]: But again, I did go back to what he said earlier, we've been out of the loop. 33:39 [SPEAKER_06]: We haven't heard from anybody except for the meetings. 33:44 [SPEAKER_04]: I know that there was a great deal of sadness because of Donald's death or the filming and before the series was released. 33:53 [SPEAKER_04]: So I know that your family holds up really high place of honor in everybody's heart broken for you. 34:00 [SPEAKER_04]: We're wondering, I think Shane was gonna ask about the FBI is not released. 34:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you guys touched on it a bit earlier, but have you guys been told why the FBI won't release choices files to you? 34:14 [SPEAKER_06]: And that's something that we should probably follow up on. 34:17 [SPEAKER_06]: But we still have their large. 34:21 [SPEAKER_04]: So what would you like law enforcement to do for your family? 34:24 [SPEAKER_04]: If you had, if you could make a list, what would be on that list that you would like law enforcement, the police department, and the FBI to do for your family? 34:42 [SPEAKER_06]: who made the call about getting rid of the evidence and why. 34:48 [SPEAKER_05]: I can't believe that the evidence was destroyed. 34:53 [SPEAKER_05]: And then, what evidence really called them about? 34:56 [SPEAKER_05]: But it's not all the prints. 34:59 [SPEAKER_05]: And then, what evidence is there? 35:00 [SPEAKER_06]: There have been scrapes underneath the fingernails. 35:04 [SPEAKER_06]: There was. 35:05 [SPEAKER_06]: When we were told there was blood found on the back seat of my parents' car, and after that, when my parents got a car back, my mother wouldn't, you know, go in as soon as she had back into car, they were a flavor. 35:21 [SPEAKER_05]: The other thing is, as far as the evidence goes, I took time to believe that it was destroyed, because all the evidence that they've got 35:35 [SPEAKER_05]: And you say, Tim got a bigger print. 35:39 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if they got blood samples or if they had anything out. 35:42 [SPEAKER_05]: But why would they just destroy that little bit? 35:46 [SPEAKER_05]: That's what all makes sense for me. 35:48 [SPEAKER_02]: As far as evidence goes, they probably also had the clothing that she was wearing. 35:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't you also tell me that they took your parents' tires off of the car. 35:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Did they ever return those to you? 36:00 [SPEAKER_02]: No, they have. 36:02 [SPEAKER_02]: So they were probably evidence that they had stored as well. 36:05 [SPEAKER_05]: They can't tell because they failed. 36:07 [SPEAKER_05]: My father went, when he got, you never knew where he was going to find parts, so all four of those pirates were mismatched, and they found evidence of the pirate tracks where they found Jewish's thought. 36:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Also, they found it like, like, in the dirt, it's what you're saying. 36:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 36:24 [SPEAKER_04]: So, her car. 36:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Somebody abducted her in her car and told her parents car, but yes, I'm going to change the question I was going to ask you to a different one, what would you, what can the public do for you, what can we do for you, because I really do not want you to, I will feel like you're not, you're not. 36:45 [SPEAKER_04]: being ignored. 36:46 [SPEAKER_04]: I am willing to do anything I can and there's thousands of people that are listening to this and we'll be listening to it that will do anything we can to help you find answers. 36:59 [SPEAKER_04]: So what can a public do for you? 37:01 [SPEAKER_06]: What you're doing now, again, and I've completed 37:10 [SPEAKER_06]: And now that we know how to reach these podcasts, I'm definitely going to reach them and listen to them. 37:17 [SPEAKER_06]: And if this is going to have a possibility that it's not going to just fall by the way, so I and hopefully it'll something will come of it. 37:26 [SPEAKER_06]: But the work comes up on 50 years. 37:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that it's great. 37:32 [SPEAKER_03]: how much the keyfers and the podcast had generated in this and it keeps other people interested in this project. 37:41 [SPEAKER_03]: They keep talking about it and coming up with various theories that can be explored and I think that's a wonderful thing that you've done. 37:49 [SPEAKER_06]: And James, who does the year involved as well with the system of Kathy? 37:54 [SPEAKER_06]: We hope to get involved and apparently there was two other 37:59 [SPEAKER_06]: that the other they can also solve, I don't know what the problem is. 38:03 [SPEAKER_06]: They can't hear that they call cold case files, but it's going to be cool. 38:08 [SPEAKER_04]: And they're just, this is not having the police definitely feel like those four. 38:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm going to say the names says Nick Malekki, Montana, and conures believe that those are connected. 38:23 [SPEAKER_04]: They're looking into all of them. 38:25 [SPEAKER_04]: That's easy for me to say the police 38:29 [SPEAKER_04]: share anything with Jama or Shane or Abby. 38:31 [SPEAKER_04]: We got really good at reading between the lines. 38:34 [SPEAKER_04]: We actually had more information than they did. 38:37 [SPEAKER_04]: And they were welcome to that once the movie people got involved and sister Kathy is family. 38:46 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to say to the listeners, I went all of you. 38:49 [SPEAKER_04]: We are begging all of you to start brainstorming and posting 38:56 [SPEAKER_04]: You can put it on my page on the podcast page. 39:01 [SPEAKER_04]: What can we do? 39:03 [SPEAKER_04]: We can write letters. 39:04 [SPEAKER_04]: We can make phone calls, anybody. 39:06 [SPEAKER_04]: If you are FBI connected, if you are whatever connections you have, we made your resources. 39:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Because I don't know if you guys realize this, but I really do believe this is why it was born. 39:18 [SPEAKER_04]: And as long as I'm alive, you guys are important to me. 39:23 [SPEAKER_04]: And Joyce, I'm determined that if there's anything in my power that I will do it to help you guys find the answer. 39:31 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm begging our, we're good at crowdsourcing. 39:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody comes through for us. 39:36 [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm begging the listeners, please start thinking about what we can do that's concrete because we do not want your family to be left alone. 39:47 [SPEAKER_06]: Once again, we can't thank you enough that you keep this going, which, you know, it's great. 39:53 [SPEAKER_06]: And I questioned myself throughout the years why I didn't, I even pursue. 40:00 [SPEAKER_06]: Again, this was all new and we assumed that it would, if they'd be inventing it, and I'm not saying it's not, but if there's no information past down to us, 40:13 [SPEAKER_05]: Donald went to the FBI on numerous occasions, but he would always tell me that he went into the same run-around that they always did. 40:24 [SPEAKER_05]: It's an open case we can't discuss it. 40:27 [SPEAKER_05]: Now, if they can't discuss it, they could at least say we're looking into it, but it's just blankly they cut him off into blow-in-law. 40:37 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, exactly. 40:38 [SPEAKER_05]: It tells us that the FBI 40:41 [SPEAKER_02]: After you guys watch the keepers, what are your opinions on do you guys believe that Joyce and Kathy's case could be related? 40:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I believe it. 40:50 [SPEAKER_05]: This is packed. 40:51 [SPEAKER_05]: You're damn right, I believe it. 40:53 [SPEAKER_05]: Now, the other thing is, for that good, as I understand that girls that were elected, that we're in, if you're house, yes, yes, okay. 41:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Now, that lawyer, she pulled our lead to the side. 41:09 [SPEAKER_05]: and they have heard that he had never been molested by Maskel. 41:14 [SPEAKER_05]: And she said, no, why do you have? 41:16 [SPEAKER_05]: And he said, because one of those girls told her that he over her joys telling Maskel, if you ever touched my sister, I'll turn you in. 41:29 [SPEAKER_04]: meaning the youngest sister in the family. 41:33 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. 41:33 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. 41:33 [SPEAKER_05]: That's true. 41:34 [SPEAKER_05]: If she and her and Bibi would talk about, that's cool. 41:39 [SPEAKER_06]: That could be absolutely true. 41:42 [SPEAKER_06]: I knew that the keepers may was great, which there would be a follow-up. 41:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, they know that. 41:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 41:51 [SPEAKER_04]: So for everybody who's listening, the filmmakers have moved on. 41:57 [SPEAKER_04]: They don't just do true crime. 41:59 [SPEAKER_04]: They've moved on to their next two projects. 42:02 [SPEAKER_04]: One of which just came out called Ask Dr. Ruth. 42:05 [SPEAKER_04]: which is the story of Dr. Ruth Westheimer. 42:08 [SPEAKER_04]: We're not going to leave you. 42:10 [SPEAKER_04]: That's ain't an iron stock. 42:11 [SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to be, he's only 30. 42:14 [SPEAKER_04]: So he's like, 42:15 [SPEAKER_04]: less than half my age. 42:17 [SPEAKER_04]: So if I, if something happens to me, at least don't have who did it, and Shane will carry on the torch. 42:23 [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm not pointing where I'm here, city. 42:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Darrell and Pat, I wanted to ask you one of my last questions. 42:30 [SPEAKER_02]: We a lot of people saw in the keepers and one of the things they'll remember is that the person who were at least the detectives believed at the time, the person who drove Kathy's car was driving with two feet. 42:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Didn't one of you tell us when we met in person in Baltimore that they believed that also was the case for Joyce's car? 42:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm one of the case for George Carr. 42:52 [SPEAKER_05]: And I understood it. 42:54 [SPEAKER_05]: They found things on it. 42:55 [SPEAKER_05]: Great fellow and nothing on the FL. 42:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Who's the goofy guy? 43:00 [SPEAKER_05]: The hell? 43:02 [SPEAKER_05]: Tough animals. 43:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Edgar. 43:05 [SPEAKER_05]: Edgar. 43:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Edgar. 43:07 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. 43:07 [SPEAKER_05]: And the F. Edgar, a thief drove a two feet even now. 43:11 [SPEAKER_02]: That's all the questions that I had. 43:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Was there anything else that you wanted to say or ask? 43:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Ask for our listeners? 43:18 [SPEAKER_06]: No, just we appreciate that it's still that, you know, what you guys are doing and that keeps going and where we can do. 43:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Darrell earlier in the conversation, you had talked about path identifying choice. 43:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Pat, I know that's such a hard-breaking thing for you to talk about, but I didn't want to just go through this without giving you the opportunity to talk about that if you wanted to. 43:40 [SPEAKER_05]: When we were at Fort Mead, a mother, my father, Donald and I, we were all there. 43:46 [SPEAKER_05]: And originally, Donald was going to go identify her, but he got too emotional. 43:54 [SPEAKER_05]: So then they asked me, I went over to the hospital to identify her body and you saw the area where her body was found and she was found, they found partially in the river. 44:13 [SPEAKER_05]: And they had, they didn't clean her up at all. 44:23 [SPEAKER_05]: and that's something of visual that never ever goes away and it was just for that. 44:31 [SPEAKER_05]: So it does hurt. 44:34 [SPEAKER_05]: I would like to pull the switch on my guy that did it. 44:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I would make me happy. 44:40 [SPEAKER_02]: We are all here with you now. 44:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Darrell Pat Diane. 44:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you guys so much for your time. 44:57 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching.
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