0:11 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you. 0:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Today we're actually coming to you from Gemma's kitchen, where she does all her awesome cooking as she was seeing the keepers, but today we're actually going to be covering the timeline, Gemma. 0:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, everybody. 0:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, probably you're going to get a good listen in many ways. 0:49 [SPEAKER_00]: We are going to this evening talk about the history of Joseph Maskel. 0:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to bring you up to speed on everything that happened the week before Sister Kathy disappeared, because there's a lot there, and there's a lot that you've asked questions about. 1:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So what do we go ahead and jump into father masquerals timeline? 1:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 1:12 [SPEAKER_01]: We know that he was born on April 13, 1939. 1:16 [SPEAKER_01]: He was raised by his mom and dad in North East Baltimore. 1:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 1:20 [SPEAKER_01]: He has a half brother named Tommy. 1:22 [SPEAKER_01]: His mother was Helen Jenkins. 1:25 [SPEAKER_01]: His father was Joseph Francis. 1:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Masquerals. 1:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So he must have been named after his father. 1:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Correct. 1:32 [SPEAKER_00]: If we pause there for a minute, his brother was his half brother. 1:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And I believe his name was Thomas Joseph. 1:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess they had the same dad. 1:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And his brother Thomas was a Baltimore City police officer and I believe it was in the northwest area of Baltimore. 1:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And that probably is significant. 1:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We also know that when Moscow was a child, 2:00 [SPEAKER_00]: his mom used to make little pre-savements and if you're not Catholic, vessments are the costumes, the outfits that pre-swear when they're saying mass or doing a baptism. 2:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So she made miniature winds for him and he had mass in the backyard and it's 2:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are it's a role of candy in different colors and would let him use the white ones for communion hosts and I want to know how many here's something you can research for me how many roles of neco way first do you have to buy before you can get a dozen white ones. 2:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Just to add, we do know that Father Masper has a sister, her name. 2:43 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't want to put out there. 2:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I did invite her by a letter to do a podcast, but needless to say she does not want to be bothered. 2:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're out there doing your own research, please do not reach out to his sister. 2:56 [SPEAKER_00]: She's not responsible for what he did. 2:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's elderly, and we need to respect her privacy because 3:05 [SPEAKER_00]: this is as far as we know was not her. 3:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're just going to ask it. 3:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll back off from mask school's sister. 3:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So in 1953, we have the heat entered sink, is it Saint Charles seminary? 3:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Correct. 3:18 [SPEAKER_01]: It was only there for one week because he left because he was homesick. 3:22 [SPEAKER_01]: He was 14 at that time. 3:23 [SPEAKER_01]: He graduated from Halvert Hall College between 1956 and 1957 in 1957. 3:32 [SPEAKER_01]: He entered St. Mary's seminary. 3:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to jump in there. 3:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of you have sent us pictures. 3:39 [SPEAKER_00]: from the Calvert Hall yearbook with his picture for the year he graduated, and I've learned through another friend that several of the residents from the carriage house apartments who were living there at the same time, Sister Kathy was and Billy lived across the hall. 3:57 [SPEAKER_00]: were actually graduates of Calvert Hall in the same time frame as Joseph Moscow. 4:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And now we don't know if they knew that each other, but it's just an interesting side note. 4:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So in 1965, we know from Moscow's tombstone that he was ordained. 4:14 [SPEAKER_00]: When Moscow was a seminarian, he attended as a counselor, a summer camp, a Catholic summer camp in Western Maryland. 4:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure of the name of it. 4:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It might have been Saint Martin's, but I'm not positive. 4:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And he and another seminarian who later was also ordained William Sims, who was also won the Bishop's accountability list as an abuser priest. 4:44 [SPEAKER_00]: They were both there as counselors, and abused boys who were younger than they were at the camp. 4:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, 4:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Interestingly enough, our director Ryan White, his grandfather owned that camp and one of his ants also worked at that camp. 5:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So she befriended one of the boys who had been abused by Sims and Maskel. 5:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So there was already a family connection when Ryan found out about Sister Kathy's murder 5:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think there are no coincidences, but his aunt has kept in touch with this man, the may have been friends, and this gentleman did make himself public, and was part of the keepers, but chose not to... 5:39 [SPEAKER_00]: be actually in the series and he also is dealing with this with the issues that surround clergy abuse. 5:48 [SPEAKER_01]: So it looks like his first Paris assignment after he was ordained was the sacred heart of Mary and that was in 65 to 66. 5:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Correct. 5:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And there are two of those. 5:58 [SPEAKER_00]: This one I believe was in the city. 6:00 [SPEAKER_00]: and 65 to 66 was the first year that Kio was open. 6:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We do not have any of reports of abuse by Moscow at that, or at least I'm not aware of any, at that parish. 6:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Sister Kathy was at Kio from the very beginning. 6:21 [SPEAKER_00]: The first year Kio was open. 6:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Sister Kathy was there teaching English. 6:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I entered the second year was open. 6:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Jerry Kub was there the first year and he was there as a Jesuit seminarian and he was supposed to be learning how to teach teenagers. 6:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And he told me he had no idea how to teach and so Kathy invited him to come and watch her teach. 6:47 [SPEAKER_00]: they had met at a conference before he arrived at KEO and so they knew each other and he said he came in and watched her teach and she taught what is called the secretic method and I've talked about this before but I watched everything she did and 7:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was determined to teach the way she did and it really works. 7:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It's probing your students. 7:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It's asking open-end questions. 7:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the students doing more talking than the teacher does, which is always better. 7:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So in 1966, we know that Father Masquerals was the associate pastor at St. Clement Church. 7:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, that was in 1966. 7:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess he supervised Boy Scouts there. 7:32 [SPEAKER_00]: correct was the new pastor, actually was the assistant pastor when he first came there. 7:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And Kio had already opened. 7:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Gil opened in the school year of 65, 66. 7:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So Kathy was already teaching mayor. 7:49 [SPEAKER_00]: She would not have known Moscow yet. 7:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Jerry Cube had met Kathy before at a conference of clergy and said they knew each other. 8:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And Jerry was assigned. 8:03 [SPEAKER_00]: because he was a Jesuit seminarian to teach in a high school for a year, because the Jesuits are teaching priests. 8:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was, he really said he didn't know how to teach and Kathy said, come in and watch me and he said he watched her teach and it was magic as it was all of us that knew her as a great teacher. 8:24 [SPEAKER_00]: She used the secretic method, which involves talking to your students, probing them. 8:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's more of a dialogue, a conversation. 8:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It's confirming what the other person says, and then making comments and questions based on that. 8:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And I watched everything she did and was determined to teach the same way. 8:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So I feel I really feel like I owe the success of my career to watching Kathy teach. 8:50 [SPEAKER_01]: life can get overwhelming and talking to someone can make all the difference. 8:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 9:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and as little as a couple of days. 9:09 [SPEAKER_01]: You can connect by message, phone or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 9:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, 9:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Better help include a journal for personal reflection and daily group sessions on a variety of topics and they accept each essay and FSA cards. 9:31 [SPEAKER_01]: with over 2,000,000 users, and a 4. star rating on trust pilot. 9:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Better help is a trusted platform for accessible mental health care. 9:41 [SPEAKER_01]: If you think you could benefit from therapy, visit betterhelp.com, choose our podcast during sign-up, and get 10% off your first month. 9:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Taking care of your mental health is a sign of strength. 9:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Start your journey today. 9:56 [SPEAKER_00]: The first year of students was 65, 66. 9:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So our friend Chris sent a fauntie who was a real estate agent who was friends with Russell. 10:05 [SPEAKER_00]: She was there that year. 10:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Jerry was there that year. 10:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And Kathy was there that year. 10:12 [SPEAKER_00]: The following year, 6667, Abby and Gemma entered Kiyo and got to know Russell and Kathy as our teachers, Jerry was not there, masco was not there. 10:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So according to Jerry, he and masco never met each other. 10:31 [SPEAKER_00]: He said they may have their past may have crossed, but they never actually worked together or taught together. 10:38 [SPEAKER_00]: you're after that, which would have been 6768. 10:42 [SPEAKER_00]: That was my sophomore year. 10:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That's when Maskel was moved from his day job at St. Clements to his day job at Kio. 10:55 [SPEAKER_00]: and this is confusing for a lot of people because he still lived in the rectory at St. Clements. 11:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So when he left Kio in the afternoon or whenever he got out of there, he would go back to the rectory and be around the church property in the afternoon and evening. 11:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So he was not moved away from kid. 11:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It's assumed that he was his day job was moved because 11:25 [SPEAKER_00]: abusing boys and the church felt like he likes boys. 11:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's put him with girls. 11:30 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that was no better. 11:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So, Maskel was continuing to say mass and to be the assistant pastor at St. Clements. 11:39 [SPEAKER_00]: The end of that year, the rectory where he lived, which is the creepy old. 11:44 [SPEAKER_00]: house that you see Charles standing in front of in the series. 11:49 [SPEAKER_00]: That was sold to a family in the parish and they raised their kids in that house for 20 years. 11:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Maskle and other priests were moved to the our Lady of Victory Rectory, which was not much farther away from Kio, maybe even closer to 12:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Our Lady of Victory to go to work at Kio up until 1975. 12:18 [SPEAKER_01]: one thing of important that I thought was interesting. 12:20 [SPEAKER_01]: We learned on another interview I think it was that the official archdiocese assignment list actually has mask-wide keyo between 70 and 75. 12:32 [SPEAKER_01]: But we know from all the students that he was there starting in 1967. 12:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And it isn't that so odd that they happened to have marked him out from the time when Kathy was disappeared murdered. 12:46 [SPEAKER_00]: the spring of 69 when she and sister Russell left and moved into the nearby apartments. 12:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So we know on November 7th, 1969, the Kathy sister Kathy was last seen, why don't we go ahead and start a week before that? 13:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 13:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have a lot of information about the full week before 13:16 [SPEAKER_00]: who, as you all know from the series, did confide in Kathy that she had been abused by Moscow. 13:23 [SPEAKER_00]: The first report of abuse that was told to Kathy was in December of 68. 13:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was Kathy. 13:33 [SPEAKER_00]: That was the first one that I know about. 13:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a feeling there may have been more. 13:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Kathy and she were friends and Kathy with a K, confided in sister Kathy, and then visited her when she moved to the Carriage House Apartments. 13:49 [SPEAKER_00]: In the spring that Kathy was at Kio before she left, 14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Gene tells us that Kathy said, go home and enjoy your summer and I will take care of this. 14:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So during that summer, Kathy and Russell leave K.O., which is a big controversy about why, and we've discussed that. 14:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But they were very busy that summer. 14:21 [SPEAKER_00]: They were both going to school, taking classes, going to conferences. 14:25 [SPEAKER_00]: They were living until they moved into the apartment with Russell's family and the northern part of Baltimore County and in July of 69, they moved into the Carriage House 14:46 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that we're a couple of weeks before Kathy Hobak visited her and Kathy Hobak told me nothing seemed out of place. 14:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a nice visit, but she also told me that she had a friend with her who didn't know about the abuse. 15:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So that both she and sister Kathy kept the conversation light because she didn't want her friend to know about her confiding in sister Kathy. 15:13 [SPEAKER_00]: The Wednesday before Kathy disappeared, we know that our real estate friend and my buddy Chris Constantine sent a fauntie went to visit Kathy 15:28 [SPEAKER_00]: at the carriage-house apartment because Chris was so excited that she was being engaged. 15:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And she had graduated that year. 15:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I still had a year ago. 15:40 [SPEAKER_00]: She had been with the same young man for a while in Kathy's shared her excitement. 15:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So Chris went over to share that news with Kathy and Ross. 15:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Chris tells me that something was off. 15:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That Kathy seemed flat. 15:56 [SPEAKER_00]: not her exuberant self. 15:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Chris wasn't really sure what it was if it was health or it was emotional stress, but she said there was definitely something that was not the norm that she was happy for Chris, but it was not her regular enthusiasm. 16:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And that would have been the Wednesday before the Friday 16:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Jerry Coob also told me that and I believe he said it was on Wednesday. 16:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He talked to Kathy by phone and they made plans to get together on Saturday, following Saturday and Kathy said she had something important to talk to him about now your guess is as good as mine. 16:43 [SPEAKER_00]: In my head, I'm thinking maybe she was going to tell him about the abuse and asked for his support or opinion. 16:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe she was going to tell him that she was leaving the convent because he had proposed to her two years before that, and she said, no, she said, we need to both follow her hearts, she had not taken her final vows yet, and he was in the seminary, so he asked before they had moved along to those final. 17:13 [SPEAKER_00]: commitments whether or not she would marry him and she said no at that time. 17:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So we don't know what it was that she wanted to talk to him about that was the middle of the week. 17:26 [SPEAKER_00]: When Thursday night before the Friday Kathy disappeared, we know that a Kiosk student went to the 17:43 [SPEAKER_00]: that she had been abused by Moscow and Kathy was supporting her and I guess counseling her. 17:50 [SPEAKER_00]: She had her boyfriend with her, so he was part of the conversation. 17:55 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to keep her name anonymous. 17:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never said her name out loud. 18:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I know who she is, she and I've talked, but we're going to respect her privacy to the end. 18:07 [SPEAKER_00]: She told me that they arrived, the nuns 18:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Russell got up and asked the two of them if they'd like something to drink and she went into the kitchen. 18:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And at that point, Moscow and Neil Magnus, who was the other priest at Kio, both came into the apartment without knocking. 18:32 [SPEAKER_00]: What she told me was that they came in without knocking. 18:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't want to be misquoted because that's quite different than bursting in, okay. 18:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know how often they had been over there who knows. 18:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So I asked her what their demeanor was. 18:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And she said, Muscle was furious, Magnus looked dumb. 18:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Sister Kathy asked the teenagers to leave the student and her boyfriend. 19:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And they laughed and we don't know what happened Thursday night. 19:04 [SPEAKER_00]: We do know that the next day, Friday morning of the day, Kathy disappeared. 19:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Moscow went to this young woman at Kio and said, if you tell anybody what happened, I will kill your family and your boyfriend. 19:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, you have to remember that Kathy was no longer at K.O., and Russell was no longer at K.O., Kathy was at Western High School, Russ was at Rockland Junior High, which was for Jason to the apartments where they live, so this girl was by herself in school with him threatening her with the lives of the people that are most important to her. 19:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And she has shared with me that she feels like she was responsible for what happened to Kathy that's not true, but that I can understand why somebody would feel that way the next thing we know that day is that Kathy went to school and I guess if I had been threatened the night before if they were I don't know if I would have been able to go to school or not, but she did she was not the kind of person to slack. 20:20 [SPEAKER_00]: and a student who was also in the capers, Juliano Bertoldi, who's now also my buddy, told us that she was in Kathy's class, and that Friday afternoon about one-thirdy, she was talking to her in her classroom. 20:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And that Kathy shared that she was excited because her sister was going to be married and she was going to be shopping for a gift or her sister's engagement. 20:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So that brings us to Friday afternoon. 20:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Kathy's goes home, Roscoe's home, they have dinner. 21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: We even know if they had to eat for dinner and I know somebody's gonna ask it was ham and sweet potatoes. 21:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Break before dinner, our friend Sharon Bush comes to drop something off. 21:16 [SPEAKER_00]: and talk to the nuns for a few minutes. 21:19 [SPEAKER_00]: She said, I guess she said it was around maybe a little before five. 21:24 [SPEAKER_00]: If I recall correctly, I know one of you guys will correct me if I'm wrong. 21:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I said everything seemed okay, and she went on her way. 21:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So then we have Russell at home, Kathy at home, and Kathy goes out. 21:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Now this part of the timeline is a little bit tricky because we are not sure exactly what time Kathy went out the banks were open later on Fridays it's possible she went out around seven Jerry think seems to think it was later. 22:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Mary Spence who was also a student at KEO is the individual in the keepers who heard yelling in the parking lot and said that she thinks that was about 830 and she is the delightful quirky student who was, quote, spying on Mr. 22:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Known who was getting ready to go out, 22:28 [SPEAKER_00]: where four male teachers from Kio lived about a block and a half from the carriage house apartments. 22:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So what we know is that Kathy did her errands. 22:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I believe she came back. 22:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I believe somebody confronted her in the parking lot at 830. 22:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we have a witness that said she was bringing groceries in and out and so Kathy sitting in her car, we also have someone who said that Kathy followed wave to someone and followed another part out of the parking lot and then we have someone who said. 23:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't seen these reports, but I've been told they're accurate that someone reported a woman in the passenger seat of a car going south or north-bend road trying to get out of the passenger door and somebody pulling her back in. 23:31 [SPEAKER_00]: That puts us at later in the evening. 23:35 [SPEAKER_00]: During the evening, Russell was home. 23:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Russell at a certain point, I think it was around 10, called our friend Sharon Hamelbush to ask if she knew where Kathy might be. 23:48 [SPEAKER_00]: She was worried. 23:49 [SPEAKER_00]: She wanted to know if Sharon had heard from her. 23:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Sharon didn't know. 23:53 [SPEAKER_00]: She also had a visitor that evening. 23:58 [SPEAKER_00]: a friend of Kathy's who was a priest and this is a priest that is not in any way connected to any of the abuse of murder any of it. 24:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It was someone that Kathy knew from years ago who was in town involved to more visiting a friend and they were returning from dinner and decided to stop by and see if Kathy was home. 24:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I'm sure the police interviewed this guy. 24:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I have heard from Kathy and Russ' friend, Pat Gilner, who's also in the capers, who is an ex-none, but she's the one that lived with Russell. 24:41 [SPEAKER_00]: What a nice person this guy was. 24:43 [SPEAKER_00]: There is no reason for anybody to suspect that he was involved in any of this. 24:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And at this point, Russell didn't know anything was wrong. 24:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So this priest and friend came to the door, I don't know if they came in or not, but Russ just explained Kathy was out shopping and they just left. 25:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if they were friends or Russells or not. 25:07 [SPEAKER_00]: But so that should clear up that issue. 25:09 [SPEAKER_00]: The next thing we know is that after Sharon didn't know anything, Russell called Jerry. 25:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people have said, why didn't she call the police? 25:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess it doesn't take rocket science to figure out that if the police were involved in this, I wouldn't call a police. 25:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd call the boyfriend because it's more support and it's too heads or better than one. 25:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And if Russ knew what was happening and knew that the police were involved which I believe she did, there's no way she would have called the police, like how do you know who to trust? 25:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think she called the priest and I believe they were they had gone to Baltimore to see a movie. 25:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, here's another area where there's a lot of controversy. 26:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Pete McKeeen, who was Jerry's friend, did not drive to the carriage house from Beltsville. 26:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Pete drove to Man-Risa, which is where Jerry lived in anapolis. 26:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a retreat house. 26:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And they both drove together. 26:24 [SPEAKER_00]: One route one between anapolis and Baltimore, they went to we believe the eight o'clock showing of easy rider. 26:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a wonderful friend that has worked with us a little bit on this case. 26:39 [SPEAKER_00]: His name is Michael Gorillac and he took the responsibility on his own of going down to the Central Library. 26:49 [SPEAKER_00]: looking up the newspaper from that weekend to find out where easy writer was playing and what times. 26:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And he found out that it was playing at one place in Baltimore. 27:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And in those days, friends and movies were like all day long, two, four, six, eight, ten. 27:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So for Jerry to be back at anapolis, a 1030, they were likely to have gone to the eight o'clock show after dinner. 27:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So they head back to anapolis, as Jerry said, they're sitting in his office and the phone rings. 27:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's Ross. 27:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So she's, I don't know where Kathy is. 27:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So they get Macar and they drive up to Carriage House. 27:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And I believe they got there around 11, between 11 and 11, 30. 27:38 [SPEAKER_00]: and they tried to figure out what to do, Jerry said, let's call the police. 27:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So there was an officer who came and took a missing person's report shortly after that. 27:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I believe he left around one. 27:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So he leaves, 27:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody has talked about the car or seen the car. 28:01 [SPEAKER_00]: There were two ways to get into the parking lot that the nuns used. 28:07 [SPEAKER_00]: One was off a Frederick Road. 28:09 [SPEAKER_00]: One was off of North Ben Road. 28:12 [SPEAKER_00]: The car was found across from their parking lot. 28:16 [SPEAKER_00]: North Bend. 28:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you remember in the keepers where Jerry had me park at the bottom of North Bend, if that car was pulled into the court across from the Nonsparking lot, 28:33 [SPEAKER_00]: and was pulled halfway in, it would not have been sticking out into traffic. 28:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It would have been sticking out about as wide as far as the width of a car. 28:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And if any cars were parked along parallel to that curb and Jerry and Pete parked on the other side down farther, it is possible they wouldn't have seen it. 28:57 [SPEAKER_00]: or maybe it wasn't there yet. 28:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So they go in, they come outside. 29:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I understand from Sharon that she has the impression that the priest and Ross 29:11 [SPEAKER_00]: drove the distance back to Edmundson Village. 29:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess Jerry would have to confirm or deny that, but Sharon got the impression from Russell that they had indeed tried to look for her. 29:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Russell wouldn't have had a car. 29:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Kathy had the car, so they didn't see the car driving back to Edmundson Village, and they may have been in the pre-scar, all three of them. 29:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So arriving back, the two priests go outside and it's when they are walking up the street. 29:43 [SPEAKER_00]: They see the car on the other side of the road. 29:45 [SPEAKER_00]: The doors were unlocked. 29:50 [SPEAKER_00]: They were not open. 29:51 [SPEAKER_00]: They were unlocked. 29:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Jerry said he opened the driver's side door. 29:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And what he saw was the trash bucket, tipped over, one, two, the passenger floor. 30:04 [SPEAKER_00]: The box of Newly's buns was undisturbed. 30:08 [SPEAKER_00]: It still had the rope cord around it. 30:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't mashed. 30:12 [SPEAKER_00]: My supposition is that it was next to Kathy on the seat. 30:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And that if she was pushed over, it's possible it went on the floor. 30:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We also Shane was wise enough to listen to us, ask him to enlarge and enhance the picture of that steering wheel and it really does look like something is twisted in the shape and we've been told that it may have been tied with string or thread from Kathy Slip. 30:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Kathy was very much into symbols. 30:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It could be a red herring, it could be a sign from her, it could be a sign from whoever hurt her. 30:55 [SPEAKER_00]: We just don't know. 30:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So that brings us up to the next day when Sharon said she came over to the apartment it was early the priest were still there she assumed they had stayed all night the police were there she said people were everywhere like standing around in the apartment. 31:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Ross was not hysterical. 31:18 [SPEAKER_00]: She was not acting like she was not cognizant of what was going on. 31:24 [SPEAKER_00]: She was being very matter of fact, very logical, but Sharon distinctly said and you'll remember this that a detective came up to her, took her name and said to her, while Ross is 31:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Did anybody at KO ever ask you to do something you didn't want to do? 31:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And the only thing she could think of was it some boy at a dance try to kiss her on the way back from the bathroom and she didn't know him and she's I don't know if that's what they're talking about, but that's what she told them and that wasn't what they were talking about. 32:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So that tells us that the morning after Kathy disappeared, Russ knew that there was something going on at Kio Sharon that was a first she heard of it, but somebody told the police and he was a detective wearing a trench coat. 32:17 [SPEAKER_00]: We would love to know who it was. 32:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know where those reports are. 32:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And as I've said a million times at least the police cannot tell us anything anybody was the same thing or knows anything about those detectives. 32:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Please let one of us know. 32:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Around November of 1969, that's when Jane Doe, who we now know, is Jane. 32:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Jane says that is when Moscow took her to see Kathy's body, and then going at just a few more months ahead on January 3rd, 1970, that is when sister Kathy's body was found by two hunters. 32:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Jamal, all at you explain more about that. 32:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so if you think about what change I said, Jean was taken just a few weeks after Kathy disappeared, by Moscow to see Sister Kathy's body. 33:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you also recall in the series, we did some research. 33:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I hate this topic, but we needed to do it when the life cycle of maggots. 33:26 [SPEAKER_00]: one organic materials. 33:29 [SPEAKER_00]: If the weather is warm, the maggots stay on the bodies when the weather gets cold, the maggots furrow deeper into that organic material in this case, a body. 33:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So for the couple weeks after Kathy disappeared, the weather was warm, it went up into the 60s. 33:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So when she saw Kathy's body, there were maggots there, and she was trying to clear them off Kathy's face. 34:01 [SPEAKER_00]: The police said that was ridiculous, that it was November, and that there were no maggots there. 34:06 [SPEAKER_00]: When Kathy's body was found in January, there were no maggots visible, 34:17 [SPEAKER_00]: that there were no maggots or anything on that body, so he is trying to disprove Gene's memory. 34:25 [SPEAKER_00]: However, Gemma and the medical examiner were spits both found that in reading the autopsy 34:40 [SPEAKER_00]: a suffocous and trachea, and so would not have been visible to the naked eye when she was found, but were definitely visible during the autopsy. 34:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So that explains that. 34:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So who are you going to believe? 34:56 [SPEAKER_00]: The police are Gemma and Werner. 34:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So we know that there is one newspaper article in the Arbutis Times that you can look up about the two hunters who found Sister Kathy's body in January of 1970. 35:14 [SPEAKER_00]: The article has their names. 35:17 [SPEAKER_00]: The father is George Eugene Brown and his son Carl. 35:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Carl's last name I assumed was Brown, but the story goes that they were hunting small game. 35:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm assuming Shane does that mean like rabbits and squirrels. 35:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, in the Hale Thorp area where Sister Kathy was found. 35:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a big hunting area, not. 35:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Dear and Fox is there, it's definitely small game. 35:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Interestingly enough, those two hunters were from middle river. 35:52 [SPEAKER_00]: They were not from lands down or health or. 35:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's interesting to me about why they would be all the way across on the other side of Baltimore County hunting small game when they found Kathy's body. 36:07 [SPEAKER_00]: They walked to a nearby house of course in 1969. 36:12 [SPEAKER_00]: There were no cell phones. 36:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you guys know that? 36:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, some of you are really young. 36:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Shane, did you know that? 36:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I did. 36:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 36:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And they walked to a house. 36:22 [SPEAKER_00]: They called 911, the dispatcher contacted the officer that was one patrol when the neighborhood. 36:31 [SPEAKER_00]: His name was Raymond or C. He has now moved to another country. 36:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not possible for us to interview him. 36:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know if he's still living. 36:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But he called in the report. 36:47 [SPEAKER_00]: and it went to Lieutenant James Scanel. 36:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, Scanel is in the keepers. 36:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I was not aware of some of the accusations against him when I met him, all that happened afterwards. 37:02 [SPEAKER_00]: otherwise I'll be honest with you. 37:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I could have done what I did and I feel badly for his family because I'm sure everybody's struggling with what he did or didn't do and he died in November of 2016. 37:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Not long after we filmed that episode. 37:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, he was working that day. 37:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Lieutenant did not work on Saturdays. 37:25 [SPEAKER_00]: They rotated. 37:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So what a coincidence that he's working on the day that Kathy has found and that he is the first 37:36 [SPEAKER_00]: officer in authority on the scene. 37:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We also know, and this is all factual, that Scenal and Maskel often went out from a marina and middle river on Maskel's boat. 37:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Some young women were taken out on that boat. 37:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not impossible that they may have known these hunters. 38:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I would really 38:04 [SPEAKER_00]: the sun. 38:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Now the sun, I found, does not have the same last name, and you won't believe how I found out. 38:12 [SPEAKER_00]: If you go back and listen to the episode that Shane and I did with wonderful journalist, friend reporter, Bob Irlinson, Bob is almost talking to himself about names he had 38:32 [SPEAKER_00]: What are these names? 38:33 [SPEAKER_00]: George Eugene Brown and Carl Michael Burkheimer. 38:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't think anything about it. 38:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Until I thought about the hunters and knew that the sun's name was Carl. 38:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not sure of the spelling of the last name, Burkheimer, because it was not in the paper. 38:53 [SPEAKER_00]: He was not a little kid. 38:56 [SPEAKER_00]: His father is in his 80s. 38:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So Burkheimer could be 30s, 40s, 50s. 39:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot find anybody who ever lived in Maryland by the name of Carl Michael Burkheimer. 39:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I don't think this is going to turn into a boxgirl episode, everybody. 39:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I know how you feel about that. 39:18 [SPEAKER_00]: That was crazy. 39:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And Stephanie Anne, if you're listening, we love you because of your help. 39:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But if anybody has the resources and can put me in touch with Carl Burkheimer, I would so appreciate it. 39:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Or if Carl is listening to this, if he could please get in touch with the shane stir. 39:48 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
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