0:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 0:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome everyone. 0:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Today I have a special guest, my friend, Gemma. 0:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, I joke about that just because on every episode, we always start with today. 0:41 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a special guest and they all are special, but Jim, you'll be my special guest today. 0:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Just because most of the questions, I will direct towards you. 0:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank you. 0:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you're very welcome. 0:54 [SPEAKER_00]: We've not done a question and answer episode for a while. 0:58 [SPEAKER_00]: We've just been getting a lot of people lined up so that you can have an opportunity to 1:04 [SPEAKER_00]: First hand, people's experiences with all of this. 1:08 [SPEAKER_00]: This episode is going to be a question or an answer. 1:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And Gemma Hive will let you first read the question that was asked on the key person's discussion group. 1:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So go ahead. 1:18 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, he actually we only had one after I posted my update. 1:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I was surprised. 1:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So if I'm missing something people posted there and we'll get to it another time. 1:28 [SPEAKER_01]: This question is from Sioux Carpour Slade and reiterated by Donna selling 1:35 [SPEAKER_01]: selling diva. 1:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And the question is, how long after Sister Kathy's murder did Maskel leave Kio? 1:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember from the keepers it was pretty quick departure. 1:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you elaborate on this? 1:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm not sure where folks might have gotten that impression because it was not a quick departure. 1:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Maskel was Kio from 1967 2:05 [SPEAKER_01]: in 1969, Kathy was murdered. 2:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So he remained there for another five to six years. 2:15 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, that is where most of the stories of abuse from Lil Teresa, Jean Donna, almost everybody. 2:27 [SPEAKER_01]: The abuse was, 2:29 [SPEAKER_01]: after Kathy's murder. 2:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Because those, most of those women did not except for Jane, did not know Kathy. 2:37 [SPEAKER_01]: The only other ones that knew Kathy were that talked to Kathy, were Kathy后 back and are anonymous friends and there might have been one other. 2:47 [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, in 1975, that is when Lee told us that she talked to 2:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Father Fran Molole, at the sparks retreat house, told him about the abuse, he said he would take care of it, and by the end of that year, Moscow was gone. 3:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to clarify that it was not a quick departure. 3:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It was at the end of a year, and it was probably because of what 3:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Lee told Maloo Lee, I want to add though and I know I don't want a long time, but I know you guys are going to want to know. 3:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Mascle was not part of the faculty. 3:26 [SPEAKER_01]: the nuns were not his bosses. 3:28 [SPEAKER_01]: He was put there by the archdiocese of Baltimore. 3:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So the bishop was his boss. 3:36 [SPEAKER_01]: He still lived in a rectory at the first at St. Clement and then at the parish called our Lady of Victory. 3:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So to be at KO. 3:46 [SPEAKER_01]: He was only there during the day, did not stay for faculty meetings. 3:51 [SPEAKER_01]: He wanted to run everything, but he wasn't really part of the faculty at all. 3:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So his day job was at PEO, and then he would go back to live at St. Clemens, or at our Lady of Victory, and those both had elementary schools, so he was still with children every day. 4:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Perfect, and I wanted to add something really quickly before I read off more questions. 4:16 [SPEAKER_00]: in our last episodes. 4:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It was brought up about father masquerals education and I want to correct some of the things that I said because I was able to find all of his information about that. 4:28 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, it looks like he was ordained in 1965. 4:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So he must have been pretty young Gemma when he was at Kiyo. 4:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that right? 4:38 [SPEAKER_01]: He went to one parish. 4:40 [SPEAKER_01]: He was at the leave, I would have to look. 4:44 [SPEAKER_01]: He was someplace for a year assisting. 4:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he was assigned to St. Clemens. 4:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was while he was at St. Clemens that he began working at KEL. 4:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So I have that in 1972, he earned a master's degree in school psychology from Towson State University. 5:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he obtained a certificate of advanced study in counseling. 5:09 [SPEAKER_00]: from the John Hopkins University. 5:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And something else that I wanted to add really quickly, and I know that this is touched on a lot in the Keepers and stuff, but addition to his teaching duties at KEO, he also had served as chaplain for two police agencies, the Maryland State Police and Baltimore County Police, as well as for the Maryland National Guard and the Air National Guard. 5:39 [SPEAKER_00]: actually held a rank of Lieutenant Colonel. 5:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just wanted to add that just for correction from our last episode, because I didn't have that handy talking to people firsthand. 5:48 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't always have all of the information in front of us. 5:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to correct that. 5:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember that timeline now, but he also was the chaplain. 5:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is important at where the army at Fort Mead, which was 6:06 [SPEAKER_01]: her boyfriend was stationed. 6:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would like to add that part of his job there would have been to counsel soldiers coming home from Vietnam with post-traumatic stress. 6:21 [SPEAKER_01]: PTSD, okay, that disorder. 6:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So keep that in mind, guys. 6:26 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't have an answer yet for joys, but he would have had access to a lot of soldiers who were not mentally balanced or emotionally balanced at all. 6:35 [SPEAKER_01]: But you were... 6:36 [SPEAKER_01]: probably very strong. 6:39 [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing that's important is that the master's in school counseling is not a master's in psychology and the certificate of 6:52 [SPEAKER_01]: counseling that he got from Hopkins is not a PhD. 6:57 [SPEAKER_01]: He made himself out to be weighed, more important than he really was. 7:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember Richmond telling Dr. Lee saying that certificate in school counseling is not that difficult to get. 7:10 [SPEAKER_01]: A certificate is always easier to get than a full 7:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you really buying a car online on autotrader right now? 7:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Really? 7:22 [SPEAKER_00]: At a playground? 7:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, really. 7:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Look at these listings from dealers. 7:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow! 7:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Your search can really get that specific. 7:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Really? 7:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And you just put in your info and bone. 7:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Cars in your budget. 7:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Mom needs a second, honey. 7:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You can really have a deliverer? 7:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Really? 7:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Or I can pick it up with the dealership. 7:39 [SPEAKER_00]: One sag sweetie. 7:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Mommy's buying a car. 7:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Mommy! 7:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I think Kate is walking up the slide. 7:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, all again, really? 7:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Autotrader. 7:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Buy a car online. 7:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Really? 7:49 [SPEAKER_00]: life can get overwhelming and talking to someone can make all the difference. 7:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 8:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and as little as a couple of days. 8:08 [SPEAKER_00]: You can connect by message, phone or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 8:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, 8:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help include a journal for personal reflection and daily group sessions on a variety of topics and they accept each essay and FSA cards. 8:30 [SPEAKER_00]: with over 2,000,000 users, and a 4. star rating on trust pilot. 8:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help is a trusted platform for accessible mental health care. 8:39 [SPEAKER_00]: If you think you could benefit from therapy, visit betterhelp.com, choose our podcast, drink, sign up, and get 10% off your first month. 8:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Taking care of your mental health is a sign of strength. 8:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Start your journey today. 8:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So Susan asks, who has possession of all of maskable boxes that were buried in the cemetery? 9:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we've talked about this before, but I will reiterate what my understanding is, okay? 9:13 [SPEAKER_01]: There were three truckloads of boxes and trash bags with stuff in them deposited in that big old hole. 9:23 [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, the hole that's on the movie is not exactly where the stuff was buried. 9:29 [SPEAKER_01]: That might have been like people digging graves, the people that run the cemetery, but the place where all that was buried is the way down off a fire road, the way in the back of the cemetery that's almost impossible to get to. 9:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we're thinking about a whole size of a room. 9:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, 12 by 12 and 10 feet deep. 9:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So look around your house and picture a small bedroom. 9:55 [SPEAKER_01]: When all that was dug up, we do not know where it went directly. 10:00 [SPEAKER_01]: We've been told it was taken to an evidence room at the police department. 10:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it went to the city, but I'm not sure. 10:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Then we were told there was a flood years later from one of the hurricanes that we've had, and that everything in the evidence room was ruined. 10:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Now I did talk to an ex-cop friend who did say that if something is ruined because of water, it has to be destroyed because it's no good as evidence. 10:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So we were told that all that was ruined in a flood. 10:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that's true. 10:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I also heard how rumor is that all that stuff was moved into a shipping container at Fort Mead property. 10:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, a shipping container is like a truck body. 11:03 [SPEAKER_01]: It's possible. 11:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a friend who might be listening. 11:07 [SPEAKER_01]: She lives in England, and she has filed a FOIA request 11:13 [SPEAKER_01]: that agency to determine, I think it's the FBI actually to determine if there is a shipping container that's got all that stuff in it. 11:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 11:26 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the police know a lot more than we do, for example, I know I'm going off track, but everybody's still concerned about the necklace. 11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Police knew all along that necklace was never a part of this crime. 11:39 [SPEAKER_01]: but they didn't know we were putting that into the keepers. 11:44 [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't even know about the keepers at the time. 11:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't until they saw the series, and the necklace was very convincing, that we were able to find out through one of the families, that necklace had nothing to do with sister Kathy. 12:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of what we did the best we could, but the police obviously know a whole lot more than we do, 12:09 [SPEAKER_01]: to be able to look at it and the department cannot do that because let's say they let jump in Abby or Gemma and Shane or the Man next door. 12:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 12:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Sit down and look at the records. 12:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Then 12:23 [SPEAKER_01]: The fact that we looked at the records could absolutely negate the whole case. 12:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I could be called to testify about what I saw and I could be complicit in obstructing justice or cold cases are not public cases. 12:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how many times to say it. 12:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm good at reading between the lines, but the information goes in one direction to the police not to jump up. 12:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I said that with the question why, you know, what's funny is I deleted the question after I asked it, sorry, forget what it was to. 13:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure that, uh, that's in the whole. 13:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we don't know where it is. 13:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yep, I think we almost dedicated an entire episode on the cemetery day. 13:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we did, but we do know what was in the hall, and that was on TV through summers ago with Christian shape, or he came to Ocean City, and I had somebody looking who was a photographer. 13:24 [SPEAKER_01]: She did still shots, and we determined that it was all, it was psychological testing. 13:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was stuck that masquerque was not permitted to administer. 13:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It was personality tests that determine things like how susceptible you are to suggestion, how trustworthy you are, can you focus on more than one thing at a time. 13:49 [SPEAKER_01]: The stuff was very leading and very inappropriate. 13:52 [SPEAKER_01]: and Maskel came during my sophomore year. 13:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was not subjected to his weird test that he gave the freshman. 13:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I had a different religion teacher when I was a freshman, but yeah, he gave those tests to probably all the freshman each year. 14:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of that is what was in the hole. 14:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Just to clarify, you had someone do still shots of the footage from when that stuff was being taken up. 14:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 14:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is not part of the keepers. 14:22 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a whole other story. 14:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Christian Shaper, who is the reporter friend I have from W. M. A. R. TV. 14:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Got in touch with me. 14:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And he said he found. 14:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It, when my collection probably posts that little interview, maybe on your page, so the people can look at it. 14:42 [SPEAKER_01]: He found the footage on some of you won't know what this is of the HST, the big fat one. 14:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And they didn't even have a VHS player to play it on. 14:55 [SPEAKER_01]: They had to borrow one from somebody. 14:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was in their archives in a box. 15:01 [SPEAKER_01]: There was other things on the tape. 15:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And it said something about cemetery papers. 15:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 15:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And he looked at it and there it was. 15:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So a friend of mine was looking at it. 15:14 [SPEAKER_01]: She was able to stop and enhance. 15:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We could actually read some of the things that were written. 15:20 [SPEAKER_01]: We could see that parents had signed off on some of the papers. 15:25 [SPEAKER_01]: We could see what some of the questions were. 15:27 [SPEAKER_01]: We could see the kind of test it was. 15:30 [SPEAKER_01]: We could probably do a whole podcast about what was in that hole. 15:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I would be willing to do that. 15:35 [SPEAKER_01]: You guys want to do that? 15:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, good. 15:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's do it. 15:39 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 15:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and we will post the video in the out of the shadows, discuss some of our on-face work. 15:44 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good idea. 15:46 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so the next question from Cara is has Edgar's DNA been tested against the cigarette. 15:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, to my knowledge at this point is DNA has not matched and Cindy has asked why was the necklace eliminated as related to Kathy. 16:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I just explained that that I can explain a little bit more. 16:11 [SPEAKER_01]: The night that Kathy went out to Edmundson Village Shopping Center, there is a strip mall strip shopping center on one side of the highway and on the other side was a huge department store called the head company the head company was like three floors with escalators and 16:32 [SPEAKER_01]: around the escalator on the bottom floor was Mioi's bakery, and that's where she bought the bonds. 16:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And I understand from someone else that she inquired that night about how to open a bridal registry, which is where the bride right puts a list of things that they want and then people come 17:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have the notes. 17:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know who this person was. 17:03 [SPEAKER_01]: It was the saleswoman, but that the police interviewed her. 17:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And she did tell them that Kat she remembered Kathy being there and didn't really understand a bridal registry, and that's what she was doing. 17:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, that doesn't mean she didn't shop for a gift. 17:24 [SPEAKER_01]: but for a reason unknown to me, it was not the necklace. 17:29 [SPEAKER_01]: We also found that necklace was not one of a kind, although the gemologist did a fantastic job talking about it. 17:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Once people saw the keepers, we had people sending us pictures of the same necklace in different birthstones. 17:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So apparently, it was not an expensive piece of jewelry, 17:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It was more maybe like a trendy thing and it would have been probably 10 to 15 dollars. 17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: That was a lot of money then. 18:00 [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, the family, Kathy's family have returned it to the police department to notify W. Young that she could have the necklace back and I don't know what has happened since then. 18:15 [SPEAKER_01]: But for some reason, it was eliminated from the case. 18:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not relevant. 18:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that we do know that it wasn't the birthstone of Edgar's current wife at the time that he gave it to. 18:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Those kind of still that question on why he gave her birthstone that wasn't hers and again Edgar seems from what I understand he was a petty thief. 18:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So, Edgar did time people. 18:41 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not like escaping the law. 18:43 [SPEAKER_01]: He was in jail for different things. 18:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He stole a car. 18:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Abby was able to find actually an outstanding warrant for something and he did some time and he just, the smoking guns had nothing to do with Kathy's murder, so it's not like he could have been held on any of the stuff we shared with police and there were some things we did share that we had found that they 19:09 [SPEAKER_01]: We're very happy that we could give them more information. 19:13 [SPEAKER_01]: But we do know that he was a petty thief, which means he could have been stealing things. 19:19 [SPEAKER_01]: We know from Debbie Yone and from another individual that he would write around in his car and try to get girls to get in the car. 19:29 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know how many people and bad things he was involved in. 19:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And he could have taken that necklace from one of his victims. 19:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Was it a great a creep. 19:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel very sorry for his family. 19:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And I really wish he had made a confession, but that didn't happen. 19:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully, I still believe this is going to be solved. 19:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there are people out there maybe even somebody listening right now that knows what happened, and I just really am sending my positive energy and strength to that person to come forward. 20:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody told me something last night, 20:07 [SPEAKER_01]: by email that they didn't think was important and it was important. 20:14 [SPEAKER_01]: You never know people think that things are in consequential and they're not. 20:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Even little things, a name, a date, of pace, a car, and a dress, a phone number. 20:26 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all important and my private messages open and Shane 20:35 [SPEAKER_01]: available if you want to talk to her on the keepers page, the police are available. 20:41 [SPEAKER_01]: So please keep it coming. 20:43 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to get there without you. 20:44 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a team effort. 20:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It always has been. 20:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree and we can also look at Sharon who came to us because of the information she had from being at the apartment the night before. 21:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's, it's always very important for people to come forward, even if you think it's just the smallest detail. 21:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It also closes the timeline closed. 21:10 [SPEAKER_01]: We can now fit in that people were up in about early in the morning, the next day that Jerry and Pete were still there. 21:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That Russell was standing with Sharon, wanted to detect a master of something happened to Kio, that somebody asked her to do something she didn't want to do. 21:26 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't know that stuff and she didn't think it was important. 21:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 21:33 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 21:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So Maria has asked, what made you start your investigation after all these years? 21:39 [SPEAKER_01]: That's an interesting question. 21:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Tom Nudgen, when I was, let's see, probably six years ago, in my home, on my computer, the phone rang, and he introduced himself, and he said that he was 21:55 [SPEAKER_01]: going back to look at the case that had happened in the 90s, the doro case, which I know about, but nothing ever came of it. 22:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So it had an impact of me and neither my sister nor I knew anything about any of you. 22:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So it had an impact at her and he said he was trying to he was going through yearbooks and he had been over to K.O. 22:17 [SPEAKER_01]: and the principal that was a man at the time allowed him to look at the yearbooks and he had names and he just started making phone calls. 22:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess I was on the list and I we talked about a half hour 22:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And in 1992, I had the honor of being the Maryland teacher of the year and I owe that to Kathy because I watched how she taught and if nobody is familiar with the secretic method, look it up. 22:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to explain it now. 22:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll do it another side. 22:53 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's how she taught and that works and so when I became a teacher I began giving my students problems and questions that made them think deeper. 23:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Not harder but deeper and not just yes and no answers they had to prove why they thought something was true or give me an example of it. 23:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So Tom and I talk and he asked if he could use me in the article. 23:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And I talked about Kathy, and that article is called Who Killed Sister Kathy. 23:26 [SPEAKER_01]: It's that really big article he has opened at the beginning of the papers in the first scene. 23:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And you can read that it's very long. 23:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to take you a while, but he quoted me in several other women saying what a wonderful teacher she was. 23:43 [SPEAKER_01]: She was the reason I became a teacher. 23:51 [SPEAKER_01]: He submitted it to the Baltimore Sun. 23:53 [SPEAKER_01]: They would not publish it. 23:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Washington Post would not publish it. 23:58 [SPEAKER_01]: New York Times would not publish it. 24:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, time is well known journalist. 24:04 [SPEAKER_01]: He has written all over the world, all over the country is well respected. 24:08 [SPEAKER_01]: They all felt like it was too daring. 24:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And to be honest with you, I think there were times when the newspaper was also in the pocket of the archdiocese and that there were too many legal risks in publishing a story that pointed fingers at the police and at the church. 24:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So he finally decided that he would submit it to a newspaper called the city paper. 24:37 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're from Baltimore, you know that paper. 24:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not an underground paper, but it's sort of like a jump up paper. 24:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very liberal. 24:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It's got really intriguing puzzles in it that you could win prizes. 24:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was always winning movie tickets for solving the puzzles. 24:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And anyway, 24:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So that ends it up there. 24:58 [SPEAKER_01]: It got good coverage, and that was that. 25:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So about five years ago, Tom had done that story. 25:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I believe it was in 2006. 25:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So I have to look it up anyway, about five years ago out of the blue, I sent him an email one summer and said, when you come back and finishing that story. 25:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So he showed up in the fall of 2014 and things developed from there. 25:30 [SPEAKER_01]: He started the inside ball to more one line 25:36 [SPEAKER_01]: blog, if you have not read it, go to insideballtomore.com and you can read all Tom's stories, they're great and they all center when this case. 25:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you read any of his chain? 25:51 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I didn't even realize that there was that board. 25:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, it's called Insideball To More. 25:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's some the subheading is the real story of Baltimore or something. 26:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's all he's probably done about 10. 26:06 [SPEAKER_01]: There's one with Gene and Ryan or Gene and Charles. 26:09 [SPEAKER_01]: There's one with some of the women he interviewed here in Baltimore. 26:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So I invite all of you to go read and you can leave comments inside Baltimore by Tom Nugent and UGEMT. 26:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And to find that big article called Who Kilt Sister Kathy from the city paper. 26:33 [SPEAKER_01]: a Facebook page and Abby jumped in and she was the voice of reason. 26:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I was more emotional, big surprise, right, who cries all the time. 26:42 [SPEAKER_01]: That would be me. 26:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And so she and I started working and she was very sensible. 26:47 [SPEAKER_01]: She would have great ideas about 26:50 [SPEAKER_01]: how we could get information. 26:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So she really became the track or the research person. 26:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was the one that does stuff like this. 26:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want you guys to think Abbey's like sick or go on. 27:02 [SPEAKER_01]: She just prefers not to be in the media. 27:07 [SPEAKER_01]: She has children and grandchildren. 27:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And they don't all live in the area. 27:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So she and her husband spend a lot of time with their family. 27:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Teddy and Gemma live at the beach. 27:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So shows a different situation and still is doing research, Abbey is doing great work in terms of finding out what's going on around the country, and especially legally and Maryland with the Maryland General Assembly and watching to see what Bishop is being ousted and what's happening with our own statute of limitations. 27:44 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so that Annie has a question, and it is, did any of masquerals victims have medical examinations by family doctors, which may have shown evidence of abuse? 27:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure how to answer that. 27:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 27:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I know of some who have had health issues, medical issues, because 28:08 [SPEAKER_01]: physical health issues because of the abuse, but to ask if family doctors did examinations at the same time that he was taking them to Richter or abusing young men and women, I don't know. 28:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do know that many of the survivors have had not only mental and emotional issues, 28:37 [SPEAKER_00]: and just add to that when it comes to information from survivors, that's not information that if we had, we would probably release any way, that would be our own decision to release it in their own time. 28:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's very confidential. 28:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and on end of things like stress anxiety, that is a physical malice. 28:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I would not, I don't know, but I would not be sharing anything personal bad anybody's female issues. 29:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Her question is, did any of Moscow's victims end up pregnant? 29:12 [SPEAKER_01]: That again, that would not be up to us to, I don't know, I don't know the answer to that. 29:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It wouldn't surprise me, but I would all be speculation. 29:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody said, oh, guess what? 29:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I had a child by Joseph Maskel. 29:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So I really don't know, and even if I did, that would not be my, 29:33 [SPEAKER_01]: news to share with us. 29:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And we can share this that the doctor, Richter, is it public information and I can delete this if it's not Gemma, but that there were abortions being done? 29:46 [SPEAKER_01]: That's correct. 29:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And they were done under the heading of 29:51 [SPEAKER_01]: a D capital D and C, which is a female procedure that is, how do I say this? 30:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Catholic hospitals do not do abortions. 30:04 [SPEAKER_01]: St. Joseph's hospital had, 30:12 [SPEAKER_01]: like for not any overnight stays, but outpatient surgery, and it was built to insurance as a DNC. 30:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know a lot of details, but that would have been, uh, Richter did the surgery, done it night, and they went home, Maskel took him home, and I would imagine that would have been maybe third-end abortion if they were 30:41 [SPEAKER_01]: If somebody knows anybody who knows anything about St. Joseph's hospital and maskels connection there and Richter's connection there, I'd really urge you to contact the police and Richard Wolff at the Attorney General's office. 30:58 [SPEAKER_01]: He told me that's important information that he would need to know about, and you don't need to tell me or shame, but you need to tell somebody 31:08 [SPEAKER_00]: who created and if you need help reaching them, you can always contact us and we can tell you how to reach them. 31:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 31:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Berlin's question is, how is your opinion changed from when you began your investigation on how and why Kathy was killed? 31:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I am going to answer that one. 31:23 [SPEAKER_01]: At first, I was... 31:26 [SPEAKER_01]: pretty much told not to speculate publicly in interviews. 31:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I made the mistake of saying what I thought happened. 31:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course right away, everybody was like, what Gemma said, and Gemma doesn't know anything. 31:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I do not know what happened to Kathy. 31:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I promised you I do not know. 31:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I will at some point. 31:48 [SPEAKER_01]: My speculation right now is that, 31:54 [SPEAKER_01]: James Scenel and possibly police officer who's going to be unnamed right now. 32:03 [SPEAKER_01]: We're the doers and I believe that Billy Schmidt and Edgar were also involved. 32:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that Kathy was killed because she was going to report or had reported what was happening at K.O. 32:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I totally agree with Jane and Jane says this in the movie. 32:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to repeat it. 32:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Kathy says Nick was killed because of what she knew. 32:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I believe she knew a lot and she was collateral damage. 32:38 [SPEAKER_01]: she could have been responsible for taking down the whole archdiocese and the police department with it if she had been allowed to live. 32:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So that doesn't, I mean, they had to do something to shut her up. 32:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think there are people living that know the details and again, I hope their conscience is bothering them because they need to do something before they get on the down elevator. 33:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Several men were there. 33:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I believe, say, push her over to the passenger side of the car, and that's how the little trash bucket got knocked over. 33:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the muley's buns were probably one that seat next to her and may have gotten knocked to the floor. 33:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Gary Childs reports that there was a report that somebody saw a woman trying to get out of a car on North Bend Road and a man was driving. 33:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that was coffee trying to get out. 33:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she would freeze. 33:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I think she would fight. 33:56 [SPEAKER_01]: She was smart and she was very feisty. 33:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I think she was not a whim in any way. 34:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I think possibly there was more than one man in the 34:08 [SPEAKER_01]: if she was in the passenger side, somebody could have been in the back. 34:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Kathy's had different kinds of injuries, somebody strangled her, and that's possible that that happened before the head injury in order to make her unconscious. 34:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we have heard that her car followed a car out of the parking lot. 34:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she was driving. 34:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I think, 34:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody was driving her car. 34:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I believe Edgar's car may have been the one that they were following. 34:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And we know that the next day, when he showed up at home, he wouldn't let his wife open the trunk. 34:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So we don't know if maybe there was evidence there, blood, her body who knows. 34:57 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do believe that he was directly involved in her murder. 35:05 [SPEAKER_01]: left at the place where she was found. 35:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you want to talk about that, but that's what I think about how and why she was murdered. 35:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want me to say anything about moving her body? 35:18 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going ahead. 35:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, a lot of you have claimed that Brian Schmidt, if he, if his story is 35:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing happened in that apartment that had to do with Kathy's murder. 35:37 [SPEAKER_01]: She was not killed. 35:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't believe so, because we know Sharon was there the next morning early, if somebody had been killed in that apartment, that would have been a crime scene all taped off and nobody would have been able to get in there. 35:52 [SPEAKER_01]: to make Brian's story and remember, he was a little kid, like seven, to make it fit, here's what I think happened. 36:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I think weeks, I think after Jean saw the body of Kathy, 36:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Maskel Panicked and figured they better move Kathy because Jean could find her way back there and bring somebody like the police or her brothers, she's got any brothers, the wagons were circling to protect her. 36:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he got whoever the guys were skipping and maybe Edgar and Billy we don't know who all it was. 36:33 [SPEAKER_01]: to go in the nun's apartment weeks after everything happened. 36:41 [SPEAKER_01]: But before she was found to get a blanket or something that they could wrap Kathy in to move her. 36:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, if they took a rug or a blanket from Billy's apartment, it would have fibers, crumbs, whatever, from the men on it. 37:02 [SPEAKER_01]: If they took it from the non-department, it would be obvious if you took a rub, it would not be obvious if you took a big blanket. 37:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I do not and have never believed that there was a body rolled up in that blanket. 37:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was a blanket. 37:19 [SPEAKER_01]: But they intentionally took it from the nun's apartment. 37:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they planned ahead to do that. 37:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I think they were stuck. 37:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what Brian saw. 37:32 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a morning. 37:33 [SPEAKER_01]: He was back in his uncle's apartment, playing with his uncle Bobby. 37:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And he went with him. 37:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And they went somewhere. 37:45 [SPEAKER_01]: in the monumental road area. 37:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I think she was left behind the shop. 37:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's where Jean was taken. 37:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't think she was moved very far. 37:55 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that's when they moved her to the place where she was found. 38:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what his story is about, because that would all make sense. 38:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I also do not think it was a coincidence that Scanel was working the day that Kathy was found. 38:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that was arranged, because he was a lieutenant and Lieutenant did not work on Saturdays. 38:22 [SPEAKER_01]: They took turns. 38:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So that was his rotation. 38:26 [SPEAKER_01]: He was working. 38:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I've looked at that picture of the police officers and detectives standing on the hill. 38:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Overlooking that dump. 38:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think one of those is skinnel. 38:37 [SPEAKER_01]: We'd love to know who the other ones are. 38:39 [SPEAKER_01]: They might be still living, but we don't know. 38:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember how old Brian was? 38:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we met if there happened. 38:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he was seven, six or seven. 38:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And at the time, he gave that interview. 38:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, Sharon Schmidt would be able to answer this. 38:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how well he was. 38:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if he was having health issues or was confused, but I think he saw something, but I think it happened after the heat, died off at the carriage house apart. 39:10 [SPEAKER_01]: These guys were not angels, so it would have been very easy to pick a lock. 39:15 [SPEAKER_01]: to get something out of apartment or like my neighbor has my apartment key. 39:20 [SPEAKER_01]: The nuns could have given them a key in case they forgot theirs, especially if they were neighbors. 39:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And we know they were friendly because Sharon Schmidt's mom talks about being introduced to Kathy that she was over there seeing Billy and Billy said, this is my neighbor, sister 39:44 [SPEAKER_00]: We believe he was about seven years old when that memory would have taken play do believe that this is again my personal opinion, but I do believe that he is being honest, that he remembers those events happening, but something that we know from memories of adults from their childhood, especially at seven, is although we can hear factual information coming out, the remembering process may not be linking correctly. 40:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, I also don't believe that Kathy was in her apartment and that stuff happened. 40:18 [SPEAKER_00]: However, I do believe that he does remember in parts of the event that happened. 40:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, when you're seven and remembering it many years later, I definitely do believe him in that the events happened. 40:31 [SPEAKER_00]: is just, I don't think that some of the connections were correct in his memory. 40:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Going back to, you said that you also believed that Skennel, it was a range that he would be the officer on duty that day, what is your opinion of the hunters that found Kathy a question that I have written down is where there are any developments from the hunters. 40:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And did Maryland have a legal hunting season back then the area there by the business on the house is a 1969. 41:03 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a question on if someone could hunt in that area. 41:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, people used to hunt small game over there a lot. 41:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I only know that because I've been over there and have talked to people that live over there. 41:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I do not know anything about licenses. 41:20 [SPEAKER_01]: This was January. 41:21 [SPEAKER_01]: What concerns me is that there's there is one article about the hunters and it was a man and a son. 41:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And the son's name of last name, that's Teddy saying hi, the son's name is not the same as the father's name. 41:43 [SPEAKER_01]: The father's name was George Eugene Brown, his son's name. 41:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember it, but it is it's a different last name anyway, they didn't live over there. 41:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand why, and when like you'll be hunting deer over there, you'd be hunting squirrels and what else? 42:03 [SPEAKER_01]: What else? 42:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Rabbit maybe, not big game. 42:08 [SPEAKER_01]: They lived in middle river. 42:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So I started looking into that information and found some interesting information about the hunters that I turned over to the police. 42:22 [SPEAKER_01]: The father has a record, okay? 42:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I think they were paid to find her. 42:30 [SPEAKER_01]: because they came from the other side of the city where Masco hung out at the marina where Masco's boat was where Scanel and Masco went out on boats. 42:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it would have been easy to 42:49 [SPEAKER_01]: come across people that would have done that for them. 42:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would love to talk to the son. 42:55 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to try, I'm going to try and find him. 42:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't found him yet. 42:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a little nervous about contacting the father, but he's still living. 43:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And the son was not a little kid. 43:05 [SPEAKER_01]: We're talking either a teenager or a little bit older. 43:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I do not believe that they found her by accident. 43:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I think everything was planned that day down to them finding her and Scanel being the first officer to respond to the patrol officer. 43:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you think they wanted her to be found? 43:28 [SPEAKER_01]: They probably have showed Kathy to other girls or boys. 43:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it may be have been getting to risky to leave her out there. 43:40 [SPEAKER_01]: There could have been some close calls. 43:43 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there could have been some development in the area. 43:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but I think they just figured they got the sounds awful, but they used her to keep mouths quiet. 43:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And now we don't need to do that because everybody is being quiet and we have other stuff going on. 44:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's just find her and I'm not sure why they decided she should be found that day, but I don't think anything about this was an accident. 44:11 [SPEAKER_00]: just to add slightly to that. 44:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I also believe that this scenario played out just like how you mentioned, think that maybe a reason that they weren't hurt to be found was to further make sure people shut up. 44:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I say that because we, I believe that Russell was scared to death and with half these remains being found as they were, that probably scared her even further. 44:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that in a way, it was to also make sure that people stayed quiet. 44:42 [SPEAKER_00]: This is what happens to people who snitch. 44:44 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a mask will set it right to June. 44:45 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what happens when you say bad things about me. 44:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So you're right, Shane. 44:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And I believe that's one of the reasons why the faculty at KO. 44:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I've even looked to see how many people left in 1969 or 70. 45:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And there wasn't like a noticeable pattern. 45:03 [SPEAKER_01]: But I have only been able to find one person who would talk to me and that person claim they knew nothing. 45:46 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
Show full transcript (488 segments)