0:00 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you. 0:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, everybody. 0:31 [SPEAKER_02]: This week, Shane and I have a special guest. 0:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I say that every week, but this one is special. 0:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Tonight, this is going to be a little bit of a different format. 0:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Our guest is an alum of Archbishop K.O. 0:45 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're using the main lady to talk to her tonight. 0:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And she has requested that the format be that she 0:53 [SPEAKER_02]: given the opportunity to read her story to you as a statement and if Shane and I have any follow up questions, we might ask for that opportunity again. 1:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you definitely for agreeing to sit down with us to talk about this. 1:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I do want to add that we already know that you did tell this information to the Attorney General for the Attorney General's investigation that's happening for Maryland. 1:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, thank you very much for the opportunity. 1:25 [SPEAKER_01]: The first day of freshman year during placement testing, Father Maskel came in to the classroom before lunch. 1:32 [SPEAKER_01]: He pointed at me and asked me to speak with him in the hallway. 1:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I did as the app, he offered to give me some more time to finish the test in his office, which I was happy to accept. 1:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Looking back, I think, who wouldn't accept the opportunity for additional time for placement testing? 1:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Do not matter if entering his office, he began asking me very uncomfortable questions. 2:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I was the most naive girl then, and I was very flustered by his question without my experience with boys, which was next to nothing. 2:09 [SPEAKER_01]: My body, my thoughts on sex, and what I think my parents do. 2:14 [SPEAKER_01]: You suggested I should listen at their bedroom door at night. 2:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I found that excuse to leave after several minutes, only to find myself against his office door with the door knob in my back and him on me. 2:29 [SPEAKER_01]: telling me terrible things about how wicked I am. 2:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And that Jesus will make him do things to me that will cleanse me and make me a good person that it wasn't his choice, but that of Jesus. 2:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And it would hurt. 2:43 [SPEAKER_01]: but that I would be saved to a recall thinking the worst thing that I had done was borrow something from my sister. 2:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So the punishment couldn't be bad. 2:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I was so confused because I knew I didn't deserve to be hurt by a priest, but priests are basically God. 3:00 [SPEAKER_01]: The next thing I knew, I was in the corridor of that of his office with his door closed and him behind it. 3:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Until he left, he oh, I avoided that office area and him as much as I could. 3:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Several times he found me, but he never succeeded in getting close like that again. 3:20 [SPEAKER_01]: No, and after, I told my mother vaguely what happened, saying that it was one of my new classmates. 3:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Her reply was that my friend was probably lying, and that she should accept the priest's offer to help her. 3:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I never told my friends why I would hide behind them. 3:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I never too far to do anyone at KEO. 3:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted the whole experience to just disappear many years ago. 3:49 [SPEAKER_01]: My mother-in-law mentioned his name because he was a newspaper. 3:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Someone had accused him of sexual abuse. 3:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I swear I never heard his name before. 4:03 [SPEAKER_01]: We had a discussion about KEO's pretense. 4:05 [SPEAKER_01]: But I had no recollection of what's ever having one. 4:10 [SPEAKER_01]: She insisted and I insisted. 4:14 [SPEAKER_01]: In my mind, they never had a priest. 4:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I woke up in the middle of the night with vague memories of him being the priest. 4:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Then I saw picture and the memories were overwhelming. 4:31 [SPEAKER_01]: at OSU members going to the sparks through three cows and meeting a new priest named Father Fran Malooley. 4:39 [SPEAKER_01]: He restored my trust in priests. 4:42 [SPEAKER_01]: We had long heartfelt discussions in small groups and individually. 4:46 [SPEAKER_01]: All of these meetings were very comfortable. 4:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Today, we were leading. 4:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I looked for Father Fran. 4:54 [SPEAKER_01]: They goodbye, but I was unsuccessful. 4:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And if I was sitting on the bus, he knocked on the door, jumped on and called my name. 5:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I was thrilled. 5:04 [SPEAKER_01]: He came to where I was sitting and gave me a hug and a small, soft, leather-bound new testament. 5:11 [SPEAKER_01]: We've had a general friendly goodbye to the other girls that I was the only one he called my name, hugged and gave a kiss to. 5:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I've always remembered the situation, but not the why. 5:24 [SPEAKER_01]: This was in 1975, we before Maskel left, yeah. 5:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Years passed, and our daughter was preparing for confirmation. 5:35 [SPEAKER_01]: The news involves more that we had a new art scholarship. 5:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And he was going to confirm her class. 5:46 [SPEAKER_01]: My daughter told me that during their class meeting with him, our leadership only turned to her and said that she reminded him of someone he knew the long time ago and gave my name. 6:00 [SPEAKER_01]: How strange is that? 6:02 [SPEAKER_01]: We met for three days in 1975. 6:06 [SPEAKER_01]: He had not seen me since. 6:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I saw him at the confirmation and was very nice and so familiar toward me, odd, but lovely. 6:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I wondered why he remembered me after all this time, and why did he ever give me the Bible? 6:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd seen him several times in, and he's always friendly and positive about my family and familiar. 6:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I always started with an usual and while watching at the 5th 7th of people, they should mullily get on camera that he learned about Maskel from the newspaper in 1994. 6:50 [SPEAKER_00]: life can get overwhelming and talking to someone can make all the difference. 6:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 7:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and as little as a couple of days. 7:09 [SPEAKER_00]: You can connect by message, phone or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 7:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, 7:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help include a journal for personal reflection, and daily group sessions on a variety of topics, and they accept each essay and FSA cards. 7:31 [SPEAKER_00]: with over 2,000,000 users, and a 4. star rating on trust pilot. 7:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help is a trusted platform for accessible mental health care. 7:40 [SPEAKER_00]: If you think you could benefit from therapy, visit betterhelp.com, choose our podcast during sign-up, and get 10% off your first month. 7:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Taking care of your mental health is a sign of strength. 7:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Start your journey today. 7:57 [SPEAKER_01]: If someone just flat me in the face, I vividly remembered what I told him about Massville during my retreat from life to some defy, that why he thought me out gave me the Bible and remembered me so well. 8:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Furthermore, I remember when he hugged me, he said, don't worry, I'll take care of it. 8:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Soon after, Maskel was gone. 8:25 [SPEAKER_01]: It all makes sense to me now. 8:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I can link him to Maskel, leave him to you. 8:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And he knew, Maskel was a beautiful kid. 8:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Another memory we're currently massed a few weeks after watching the show. 8:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Who was looking around the church, we could blank mind and solve a confessional. 8:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I had not been in there a confessional since high school. 8:47 [SPEAKER_01]: My husband wanted me to go before we were married in 1984, but I told him then, and I say to the same, I will never go in there again. 8:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know why, but never. 9:01 [SPEAKER_01]: When I saw the confessional, I remembered that the last time I was in one, Nashville told me that for my penance, I needed to talk with him about how I masturbate and something else. 9:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I shot out of there and I had never returned. 9:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure a lot of people are shocked what they've just heard from you. 9:24 [SPEAKER_02]: I do wanna ask a question just from clarification if that's okay with you. 9:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, of course, you shared with us that Maloney gave you a Bible. 9:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Was this his own personal Bible or was it a new Bible? 9:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember? 9:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was brand new. 9:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Very small. 9:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just on New Testament. 9:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I still have it. 9:46 [SPEAKER_01]: He's signed it with the date. 9:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It was just a small token from their gift shop. 9:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess that was my second question that he actually did. 9:55 [SPEAKER_02]: It is signed in his handwriting with date correct. 9:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I'm kind of speechless. 10:01 [SPEAKER_02]: You and I talked about this before, but to hear you tell your 10:10 [SPEAKER_02]: really corroborate Charles Fran's story and others who believe that a person and authority knew about the abuse. 10:22 [SPEAKER_02]: way before the 90s and at the time that you met Maloney was he a he was a priest or was he a bit an archbishop he was priest. 10:33 [SPEAKER_01]: He was brand new priest and nearly we're gained right. 10:37 [SPEAKER_02]: But he would still be considered a person and authority correct. 10:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I would say so. 10:42 [SPEAKER_02]: But when people say, no, call somebody in authority and many women in men have claimed that they told somebody in authority, I would think that telling a priest who was supervising a retreat with church might be the right person to tell. 10:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I think never my mission to tell to attend the retreat. 11:02 [SPEAKER_01]: and exposed to it just with a very natural point of conversation. 11:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't confident in our conversation and I just felt at the time that was the right person at the right time to tell. 11:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Do either of you remember what day or what year Mahu Lee became the Archbishop? 11:26 [SPEAKER_02]: It's Maloli, Shane. 11:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Malu Lee. 11:29 [SPEAKER_02]: You and Charles, Kate must pronounce in him. 11:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I know. 11:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Malu Lee. 11:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It was he became the Archbishop of Wellington, correct? 11:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Late. 11:40 [SPEAKER_01]: The first physician with Archbishop of Baltimore. 11:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was again 2000 2001. 11:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I believe he's currently the archbishop of Wilmington. 11:55 [SPEAKER_00]: This question will probably be an answer that you'd have to give Gemma, but after Mass School was moved when Leak came forward, what happened to him? 12:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Where was he sent? 12:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Maskel was moved from Archbishop Kee-O to the Catholic Center in downtown Baltimore, and he was a sign inside the Catholic Center to the Division of Schools. 12:20 [SPEAKER_02]: His job there, one of his jobs, was to evaluate foster children in his office replacement and foster homes. 12:32 [SPEAKER_02]: and this was his work with Catholic Charities, which is an organization run by the Catholic Church. 12:40 [SPEAKER_02]: People make donations to Catholic Charities, and they support a lot of good things, but for whoever was responsible for Moscow at that time to allow him to be around foster children, 13:00 [SPEAKER_02]: make a comment about that person. 13:03 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't know who it was. 13:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm assuming it was the Archbishop. 13:06 [SPEAKER_02]: But how in the world would you want this man, that she's been reported to be with foster children? 13:16 [SPEAKER_02]: That was his job, he was there for five years. 13:19 [SPEAKER_02]: We also know that he had access to different schools and parishes around the archdiocese so that he spent time in different places around Baltimore also understand that some jurors from one of the Catholic high schools. 13:39 [SPEAKER_02]: were doing community service at the Catholic Center and that he employed them as volunteers in his office to help do filing whatever and my understanding that they quit because he was so strange. 13:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So I have no idea what overtures he made, but he certainly was not in a place where he should have been around children at all. 14:02 [SPEAKER_00]: We a couple weeks ago, I spoke to Sean King who is the spokesperson for the Archdiocese and Baltimore, and one of the things that our conversation touched on was that he is very adamant that no one 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: spoke about anything to do with abuse from maschool. 14:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So knowing that he told me that, what would your response to that be? 14:24 [SPEAKER_01]: It the police were covering for the archdiocese, maschools were other cousin, I believe, were policemen. 14:33 [SPEAKER_01]: and they were in contact with him. 14:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure that they had a pact that this won't go far. 14:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And you will be protected. 14:43 [SPEAKER_02]: From your perspective, Lee, and telling Father Fran Maloe in 1975, which resulted in Masco being moved out of Tio, would that indicate to you that Maloe reported the abuse 15:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes. 15:05 [SPEAKER_02]: And he told me he would take care of it. 15:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess we need to ask Mr. Kane, what his understanding of that situation was because obviously now we have a first-hand witness who is sharing that she did indeed to what we ask young people to do and not to report 15:24 [SPEAKER_02]: to a person in authority. 15:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And ladies, I'm just so sorry that this happened to you. 15:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 15:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I got around it. 15:32 [SPEAKER_01]: He tried multiple times he'd get me into his office again during the next three years. 15:40 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just, we're serious to go. 15:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And he would call me to his office and the teachers would dismiss me from class. 15:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I am sure that they, 15:52 [SPEAKER_01]: at minimum suspected what was going on. 15:56 [SPEAKER_01]: The first time I went down, I remember his office door was open, and I asked him what he needed, and he told me to come in and close the door, and I told Maskel, I will never go in your office again, and I walked away. 16:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was not a strong person, I was a very shy person, yet I knew that I just could not go into his office again. 16:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So he started to do things like go to the nurse's office and ask the nurse to come to her office. 16:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he band out of her door and from her door and wait for me to come down to the nurse's office and then he'd try and get me to go into his office. 16:45 [SPEAKER_01]: and I would refute. 16:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Since I'd see him, I just turned and walked away. 16:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And the only time that he really had me as a captive audience was in that confessional. 17:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure that he either had another priest name, 17:06 [SPEAKER_01]: on the marker above the congressional or no priest. 17:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I would never have gone into a congressional if I knew it was mascal in there. 17:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Was this a keo in the keo jungle? 17:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 17:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was completely unaware that it was him until after I had said my confession 17:36 [SPEAKER_01]: and told me that I needed to talk to him about masturbation. 17:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he said something else. 17:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember feeling chalk and overwhelmed. 17:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he said something else and I just blew out of there. 17:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I did not remember that until several weeks after watching the keepers. 17:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, I was just mindlessly enjoying the piece of church and 18:05 [SPEAKER_01]: the confessional caught my eye, and that memory left me. 18:10 [SPEAKER_02]: We hope that those of you who are listening to this understand that what Lee experience is considered sexual abuse, pushing someone against a door with his body and making the kind of comments he made to her, 18:30 [SPEAKER_02]: There was no actual interaction in any other way between them, but that is considered sexual abuse. 18:39 [SPEAKER_02]: So if you were subjected to that by anybody, please know that there's help there for you and that something that you really have to share with somebody, especially if it's clergy. 18:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And if anything that like this happened to it, 18:59 [SPEAKER_02]: involved in more archdiocese. 19:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Please make sure that it gets reported to the police and to the attorney general's office. 19:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And as always, we have that information when chains lead. 19:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to ask you one more question. 19:13 [SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned earlier that you had talked to your mom about this. 19:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Were you thinking that it happened to someone else or were you trying to find out what you should do about it because it happened to you? 19:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it happened to me the day or two after my variant and I was very reluctant to talk about it in the first person. 19:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't want my mom to do anything. 19:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know what I needed or what was very confused. 19:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So I started just talking about it in general terms and when she 19:59 [SPEAKER_01]: to the side of the priest, a priest is God, and our priest can do no wrong. 20:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew that that was a conversation that just was going nowhere. 20:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't tell her that it was actually me. 20:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't want to have to. 20:17 [SPEAKER_01]: You made to go to see the priest. 20:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that she just had her mind made up because of her upbringing. 20:25 [SPEAKER_01]: That the priest was right. 20:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And my friend actually me. 20:32 [SPEAKER_01]: was wrong. 20:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And I knew that was unacceptable. 20:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't do anything to provoke this. 20:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I was sitting in a classroom with a pencil doing a test and listening to him introduce himself. 20:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Do not your parents have seen the keepers? 20:45 [SPEAKER_02]: They have not. 20:49 [SPEAKER_02]: If Maloney was, if you have the opportunity to talk to him face to face, would you like to say to him, can you share that with us? 20:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I would just love to see the look on his face when he finds out that I remember, because I can only present that he thinks that I've remembered all of this time and just kept it to myself. 21:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But until theme teamers, I had no recollection of any of Maskel's existence. 21:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I just blocked it out. 21:29 [SPEAKER_01]: The minute he walked out of the building, was the minute that I put him away and never 21:38 [SPEAKER_01]: thought about him again. 21:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would like to come a little late. 21:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Now I remember the mistake he made initially with me is lying on the papers saying that he learned about 22:03 [SPEAKER_02]: right now there are thousands and thousands of people around the world listening to you and just very fragile us at your courage and what happened. 22:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say the first time you talk about it, it's really hard. 22:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So pick someone that's not going to judge you. 22:20 [SPEAKER_01]: For the fifth time that you stay it as long as you know that you are speaking 100% the truth. 22:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It becomes easier. 22:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And it turns into a, I'm telling you this because if it happened to me, it's happening to other people. 22:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And it needs to stop. 22:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So I encourage people that have had a terrible experience that scarred them to speak about it. 22:57 [SPEAKER_01]: It makes far heal so much faster. 23:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And. 23:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I just sharing your experience. 23:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Someone can avoid it or they in turn can accept that it happened to them, not because of them. 23:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And they in turn perhaps can help someone else. 23:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Lee, I wanted to close out by asking you one last question before I ask the question. 23:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to let you know that I really appreciate that you're willing to come forward and tell your story. 23:32 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that a lot of survivors are listening and you've also shared with us that you shared your story with the Attorney General for the Attorney General's Investigation. 23:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Talk about what that experience was like. 23:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Specifically, for those survivors who are considering going forward to talk about it, but might be a little afraid or uncertain of what that experience will be like for them. 23:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. 23:55 [SPEAKER_01]: At first, I was a bit nervous that I would be overwhelmed by the however in the bureaucracy and the questioning. 24:08 [SPEAKER_01]: But after speaking with him on the telephone, it was very warm 24:15 [SPEAKER_01]: and comfortable and a normal person that didn't have any agenda to try and make me say something that I was uncomfortable saying. 24:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I just told him that I'm going to tell him everything I know about the subject and if I don't know something because of the request memory, I truthfully did not 24:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So we agreed that I would come down to his office, and it was very comfortable. 24:48 [SPEAKER_01]: He had two lawyers with him. 24:51 [SPEAKER_01]: They asked questions for clarification. 24:54 [SPEAKER_01]: No one made me say anything that I did not want to say, but again, I have no agenda myself. 25:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I just said, 25:07 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the truth. 25:08 [SPEAKER_01]: This is my experience. 25:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was not nervous. 25:13 [SPEAKER_01]: It was not scary. 25:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't feel any pressure at all. 25:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It was very comfortable. 25:20 [SPEAKER_01]: They were very supportive of me and my story. 25:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And they only asked questions for further clarification of what I had said. 25:31 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it. 25:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And the attorneys were women, correct? 25:34 [SPEAKER_01]: The attorneys were two women. 25:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, OK. Good. 25:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they were, there was no judgment, there was no drama, it was just very relaxed and comfortable conversation. 25:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Lee, so much, you are just, you're incredible. 25:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you realize that you've impacted a lot of people by doing this with us and we appreciate. 26:05 [SPEAKER_01]: brought out all these memories and made the to impact on so many women that and men that not only have been involved with masks all. 26:20 [SPEAKER_01]: But in any situation, we're monthly similar. 26:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So she's good to be. 26:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, but it's been a team effort. 26:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And the memories that you double-edged sword, because I am happy that people are feeling comfortable talking about something that they never talked about, but it's painful. 26:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And it didn't happen to me so I have compassion, but I don't know what that feels like and so for people like you to be able to tell your story and to put the timeline in place because you are the first person besides Charles Graham's who has talked about a date. 27:01 [SPEAKER_02]: and corroborated his information, especially about Father Maloney. 27:07 [SPEAKER_02]: So, this is important for everybody that's listening because I know there are other people between Charles and 67 and you in 75 that reported to an authority figure. 27:20 [SPEAKER_02]: So, thank you for what you've done tonight. 27:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I just alertly have to say one more thing that I've learned 27:27 [SPEAKER_01]: a lot about repressed memory from this experience. 27:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I did not put a lot of credit behind repressed memory. 27:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I really thought that it was confined to incredibly traumatic events like war and death 27:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And just that one day, my first day freshman year. 28:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And I, my brain protected me by hacking it up and putting it away and not even letting me know it was there until I was prepared for that memory. 28:21 [SPEAKER_01]: We're pressed memory is very real. 28:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is to be trusted. 28:38 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
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