Foul Play: A Historical True Crime Podcast — Series 1N/A: Throwaways - Classroom DetectivesJanuary 5, 201426mEpisode 4Play EpisodeShow NotesClassroom detectives unveil new chapters of Throwaways. Episode 4 journeys into... --- Support Foul Play: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/foulplaypodcast Website: https://www.mythsandmalice.com/show/foul-play/ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/foul-play-crime-series/id1525832703 Follow us: Instagram: @foulplaycrimeseries Twitter: @foulplaypodOur Sponsors:* Check out Kensington Publishing: https://www.kensingtonbooks.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyShare:X / TwitterFacebookCopy LinkShareCreditsShane Waters — Founder & HostWendy Cee — Co-HostProduced by Myths & MaliceTranscript267 segments0:00[SPEAKER_02]: Language and content in this episode may not be appropriate for all listeners.0:05[SPEAKER_02]: Listen our discretion is strongly advised.0:08[SPEAKER_02]: Some voices may come from voice actors, but the words are accurate to the interview described.0:29[SPEAKER_01]: Like a way to sleep.0:44[SPEAKER_01]: When you were in school, you probably had class projects.0:47[SPEAKER_01]: You made terrariums and did that thing with a paper mash-y volcano with a mintose and Coca Cola.0:54[SPEAKER_01]: If you were lucky, you got to dissect a pine cone or two,1:00[SPEAKER_01]: A class project of a different sort led by fearless innovator and now friend of ours, Alex Campbell, changed this investigation yet again when he and his class of high schoolers, yes, high schoolers worked with an FBI pro-fanner to establish that we did in fact have a serial killer on our hands.1:20[SPEAKER_01]: They also provided a name for our killer.1:23[SPEAKER_01]: the Bible Belt Strangler.1:25[SPEAKER_01]: You have to admit, it's fantastic branding and what else would you expect from Generation Z?1:32[SPEAKER_01]: That said, the runners-up for our killers Monica were a little less compelling.1:37[SPEAKER_01]: Some of them sounded like the names of professional wrestlers from the 1980s.1:40[SPEAKER_01]: The Southern Slayer and the Highway Hunter.1:45[SPEAKER_01]: The most memorable was the Tennessee Air Depriver.1:49[SPEAKER_01]: They are high school kids after all.1:55[SPEAKER_02]: but this is no laughing matter, no small one either.1:59[SPEAKER_02]: Solving cases like this, it's about engaging with the public, and some part of that is about capturing the public's imagination.2:08[SPEAKER_02]: The case doesn't change, but it's a repeatability, and distinctiveness does.2:13[SPEAKER_02]: The Redhead murders is already a quality nameplate, adding a handle like the Bible Belt Strangler to the mix takes things to another level.2:24[SPEAKER_02]: For years, this killer was only Bruce Jenkins, non-descripted white male, and a brownish shirt, and a maroonish truck, and possibly also blue jeans.2:36[SPEAKER_02]: It's a somewhat valuable description, but terrible marketing.2:40[SPEAKER_02]: Try to make a decent headline out of that.2:43[SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead, I'll wait.2:46[SPEAKER_02]: But more important than the name, by a long shot, is the criminal profile of a killer like this and because of Alex Campbell's gain of teenage upstarts, we now have that too.2:59[SPEAKER_02]: The best thing about Alex's involvement3:02[SPEAKER_02]: is that he's not even a criminal justice teacher.3:05[SPEAKER_02]: He teaches sociology.3:06[SPEAKER_02]: Sitting there, listening to him, I found myself wondering, when was the last time I heard something like this?3:15[SPEAKER_02]: In a press conference, addressing an unsolved murder.3:20[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure, sure.3:22[SPEAKER_00]: So my name is Alice Campbell.3:25[SPEAKER_00]: I teach sociology at Elizabeth in high school and that class has opened any grade level.3:30[SPEAKER_00]: So I have actually freshmen, juniors, and sophomores.3:34[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have any seniors in there this year.3:37[SPEAKER_00]: 23.3:38[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, no, it was a semester long class.3:41[SPEAKER_00]: And we actually took a little break to do another project in the middle.3:46[SPEAKER_02]: I love this guy, I told Alex that when I heard about his class project and all the progress they were making with the killer's profile, my first thought was, well, what kind of class is this?3:59[SPEAKER_00]: You should have asked what kind of crazy teacher is this, that's what you should have asked.4:03[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a very valid question, but it's a sociology class and I'm supposed to teach about friends, family, media, religion, you know, socioeconomic class, I'm supposed4:16[SPEAKER_00]: parents, kids, and really I could teach all those things with this murder.4:23[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of person goes missing for 35 years and no one reports it?4:27[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of person becomes a prostitute?4:30[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of person feels like this is the only life for them?4:34[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of person becomes a trucker?4:37[SPEAKER_00]: How do you write something in the media where you get people's attention?4:41[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, literally, we're dealing with everything I'm supposed to do, but the only difference is, I'm just giving the project, so everything is related to the project, so they really want to do it.4:51[SPEAKER_00]: They never ask me why.4:52[SPEAKER_00]: They always know why they're doing it.4:54[SPEAKER_00]: They've literally begged me every day.4:55[SPEAKER_00]: Teach me Mr. Campbell, so we could find this killer.5:00[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow, you're begging me to teach you?5:03[SPEAKER_00]: So by putting the project out first, basically they're just required to think hard and say, what do we need to do?5:10[SPEAKER_00]: So it gives them some really good thinking skills about analyzing things, they tell me what they need to learn.5:18[SPEAKER_00]: I just try to teach them.5:19[SPEAKER_00]: And if I don't know, I just go to somebody else, like the TBI, FBI agent or local law enforcement.5:26[SPEAKER_02]: You talk about someone who won't let his own lack of credentials or training or respect for the long-forced mid-community, get in the way of a good investigation, or a good education, a man after my own heart.5:39[SPEAKER_02]: And more than that, he's raising a generation of students who refuse to believe justice as the private domain of licensed professionals.5:49[SPEAKER_02]: And I love him for that.5:50[SPEAKER_02]: We all should.5:51[SPEAKER_02]: There would be less chain doves if there were more Alex Campbells.5:56[SPEAKER_02]: These are high school kids holding your press conference before about 20 media members with 12 cameras from outlets like NBC, CBS and ABC.6:11[SPEAKER_05]: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.6:13[SPEAKER_05]: It is my privilege and honor to welcome you to our press conference.6:17[SPEAKER_05]: My name is William Bowers and I'm the part of Mr. Campbell's sociology class.6:22[SPEAKER_05]: Many of you today are asking the same question.6:25[SPEAKER_05]: Why are we here?6:26[SPEAKER_05]: Why are we doing this?6:27[SPEAKER_05]: Why do we even care about this?6:29[SPEAKER_05]: Well, it started 37 years ago, when a man murdered an unknown woman, and laid her body decided, four years later, five more women share the same fate.6:40[SPEAKER_05]: Those women would be founded along interstates and highways across multiple states at the time of their death.6:46[SPEAKER_05]: The moment we're founded with reddish hair, law enforcement at the time couldn't solve the murders due to the women never being identified and the transit lost stops.6:56[SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.6:57[SPEAKER_06]: My name is Mason Peterson.6:59[SPEAKER_06]: As you've heard, we started on this cold case and as a cold case and it's been 35 years since the first body was found in Russell County, West Virginia.7:08[SPEAKER_06]: For this day, this cold case remains unsolved and we only know the identity of one of the six victims.7:14[SPEAKER_06]: So we need the public's help.7:16[SPEAKER_06]: We need you to be aware of this case.7:18[SPEAKER_06]: We need you to share this case around with any info that we give you, or what you already know.7:23[SPEAKER_06]: We need you to find people that may know something we don't, and they should contact the police with this information.7:34[SPEAKER_01]: and they're 16 and 17 years old.7:37[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as you're willing to share your own soundbites from that time, you're going to serial killer between AEP, Bio and PE, we can talk.7:46[SPEAKER_01]: Here's our favorite sociology teacher, telling Tennessee law enforcement from the local cops to the TBI that he would be emailing them the professional analysis of his fourth period class.7:58[SPEAKER_00]: We will, by the way, be emailing all those to media and law enforcement.8:03[SPEAKER_00]: They're here today.8:04[SPEAKER_00]: and you'll have the full eight-page profile plus the signature excuse me the offender timeline and the victim timeline.8:12[SPEAKER_00]: That'll all be in your media packet.8:15[SPEAKER_01]: We love this stuff.8:17[SPEAKER_01]: Later in the press conference, we even had one of the students read Elizabeth's letter to her lost mother SB.8:25[SPEAKER_03]: I started thinking more and more about you.8:27[SPEAKER_03]: Mom, where are you?8:31[SPEAKER_03]: Are you alive?8:35[SPEAKER_03]: or did something happen that prevented you from coming back.8:40[SPEAKER_03]: Over time, I've heard stories about you that no child should ever have to hear about their mother.8:47[SPEAKER_03]: I tried asking dad about you, but he would become so angry.8:53[SPEAKER_03]: And I never understood why.8:55[SPEAKER_03]: I even began to wonder if you saw you when he looked at me.9:05[SPEAKER_03]: To this day, I still do not know the truth.9:09[SPEAKER_03]: Mom, if you can hear me, I want you to know that there was always an emptiness in me due to your absence.9:17[SPEAKER_03]: But also a connection you've always been with me.9:21[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe not in the flesh, but I have carried you in my heart.9:28[SPEAKER_03]: All my life, I hope to find you alive and well.9:32[SPEAKER_03]: To greet you one day with open arms and wrap you in a tight embrace to tell you that even in not knowing you, I have loved you.9:45[SPEAKER_02]: Sitting there listening to Jessica Read, I found myself wondering why we don't do more of this sort of thing as a society.9:53[SPEAKER_02]: Why don't we train our young people to train their eyes?9:56[SPEAKER_02]: On the last, the lost, in the least.10:00[SPEAKER_02]: Why don't we involve them, like this in the stories of the marginalized, and in the investigations no one else is interested in pursuing.10:08[SPEAKER_02]: It's a fantastic exercise, not only in citizenship, but also in humanity.10:14[SPEAKER_02]: And when we have press conferences like this, to remember our Jane Does, we are giving them their memorials.10:22[SPEAKER_02]: More attention, more care, and more memory than any stone marker can offer.10:28[SPEAKER_02]: This is a point that Alex made in our press conference.10:33[SPEAKER_00]: How are you ever going to solve a case if nobody remembers it?10:36[SPEAKER_00]: You're not.10:38[SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you what, Shane, I really appreciate your time and I like what you're doing.10:42[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like your thought process is right along the same as our students, to shame that these people have been forgotten.10:49[SPEAKER_00]: And there's nobody fighting for them.10:51[SPEAKER_00]: and they deserve it just as much as anybody else.10:54[SPEAKER_00]: So I appreciate your work.10:55[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate your podcast, I listen to, and thanks for taking your time.11:00[SPEAKER_00]: I look forward to working with you.11:02[SPEAKER_00]: So let's just see what happens.11:04[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like you know, even if nothing comes from this press conference, at least the world won't know about these victims.11:11[SPEAKER_01]: between naming the killer and creating a profile of the killer, it's probably safe to say that this sociology class made a greater contribution to a major crime's investigation than any high school class in American history.11:26[SPEAKER_01]: In a later private moment, Shane asked Alex how he managed to loop an FBI agent into his class project.11:33[SPEAKER_00]: First, I just found everything I could find on Profiling.11:36[SPEAKER_00]: And that's something I'd looked at.11:37[SPEAKER_00]: It taught psychology years before, so I did a little bit with that.11:41[SPEAKER_00]: I had some stuff already prepared for the students.11:43[SPEAKER_00]: I used a lot of online resources, but then I realized he would not be able to do that on my own.11:48[SPEAKER_00]: Of course.11:49[SPEAKER_00]: So I can get them started.11:51[SPEAKER_00]: I can help them a little bit.11:52[SPEAKER_00]: They needed a real expert to guide them to evaluate the work and give them feedback.11:57[SPEAKER_00]: So I did what I do mess.11:59[SPEAKER_00]: I just called around until I found somebody who said that I helped me.12:02[SPEAKER_00]: I only knew one at BIA, and it was the dad of a former student.12:06[SPEAKER_00]: So I just said, hey, would you be willing to help us find a pro-filer and believe it or not?12:12[SPEAKER_00]: He actually had grown up with a guy who also went to the FBI with him.12:16[SPEAKER_00]: He was a behavior analyst, and so I got in touch with him.12:19[SPEAKER_00]: Told him what we were doing.12:21[SPEAKER_00]: It's not an official investigation.12:24[SPEAKER_00]: This is a project for my students, but we're trying to make this as accurate as possible.12:28[SPEAKER_00]: When you just talk to my students about it and when you look at their work and give them some feedback and tell us if they're doing a good job.12:34[SPEAKER_00]: And actually, he went above and beyond that.12:37[SPEAKER_00]: I was just hoping for maybe a video call, but he actually drove many hours up here.12:43[SPEAKER_00]: He talked to me several times, he worked with the students on how to do a good job, and then he evaluated their work.12:49[SPEAKER_02]: When the agent received the finished profile, he loved it.12:53[SPEAKER_02]: He shared it with his fellow agents, and a media blitz followed.12:58[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone wanted to hear about the high school class chasing down the Bible Belt Stringler.13:03[SPEAKER_02]: When another agent heard the story through the media, he was so impressed that he actually invited them to quannico,13:13[SPEAKER_00]: He got a hold of me and said, I saw the work of your students.13:17[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's great.13:18[SPEAKER_00]: Your students are doing meaningful work.13:20[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's great that the students are interested in these kind of things.13:23[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, they were thinking about having them come present to the FBI, which just blew me away.13:28[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it was going on is they were having some training at the Knoxville office and they were having a few guys down with the BAU department there at Quantico.13:39[SPEAKER_00]: So they invited us down and said, they were willing to listen to the students.13:43[SPEAKER_00]: So they gave the students about 45 minutes to present their case.13:46[SPEAKER_00]: And then there was a sub Q&A.13:48[SPEAKER_00]: And again, this isn't to investigate the case.13:51[SPEAKER_00]: The FBI had not really been asked to do things like that, but they just wanted to give the kids a form to present this and then give them some feedback.14:00[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm sure they did their presentation.14:02[SPEAKER_00]: They actually had to stand up there and take questions from members of the BAU.14:07[SPEAKER_00]: It was really difficult, but the students did such a good job.14:13[SPEAKER_01]: When Alex refers to the BAU, he's referring to the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit, yes, that one.14:20[SPEAKER_01]: When you see, let's say, power-deed on criminal minds, and we're not talking about a brief meeting with a couple of agents in a conference room B at the Holiday Inn.14:31[SPEAKER_01]: Alex and his students gave their presentation to a room full of agents at their headquarters in Quantico, Virginia, again, wow.14:41[SPEAKER_01]: We can only set this point that we're looking forward to Alex's next class project where he will be presumably solving the mystery of Ranike and offering groundbreaking insight into the Kennedy assassination.14:54[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, it's just a great story and also a bit of a cool out to every other high school teacher to step your game up.15:02[SPEAKER_01]: Back to the press conference.15:03[SPEAKER_01]: As we might expect, the students suggested the killer was probably a truck driver.15:10[SPEAKER_05]: The killer must travel frequently, as all of the bodies, except one, was found next to interstates with the one being beside a major highway between moderately large cities within the state.15:22[SPEAKER_05]: Commercial truck drivers have a larger radius for traveling than most other jobs.15:26[SPEAKER_05]: The commercial freight liner would provide more concealment and space to hide and transport bodies over multiple days.15:32[SPEAKER_05]: As they feel a couple of bodies were not dumped until several days after their death, giving him frequent access and opportunity.15:40[SPEAKER_05]: A truck stop beside the interstate is totally normal and would not call attention as a car stop behind the interstate would.15:46[SPEAKER_05]: The Motor Carrier Regulatory Reform Monetization Act15:50[SPEAKER_05]: More commonly known as the Motor Carrier Act of 1980 was allowed that deregulated the trucking industry.15:56[SPEAKER_05]: Since the law was passed, the number of new firms increased dramatically.16:01[SPEAKER_05]: By 1990, the number of licensed carriers exceeded 40,000, more than twice in 1980.16:07[SPEAKER_05]: Combined with the Staggers Act, 1980 and Traumotor Freight Transport Served.16:12[SPEAKER_05]: Expanding 70% between 1981 and 1986, this cost tens of thousands of more jobs to open up to the trucking industry, which possibly could have caused the unsubbed to be employed in one of those new jobs.16:26[SPEAKER_05]: Thus, given opportunity to kill, as he had not experienced before.16:30[SPEAKER_02]: Impressed?16:32[SPEAKER_02]: Me too.16:33[SPEAKER_02]: The whole quantum thing is starting to make a little more sense now, isn't it?16:38[SPEAKER_04]: His job as a truck driver most assuredly requires him to frequently travel interstate 40.16:43[SPEAKER_04]: All of the murders trained along the interstate 40 corridor were along roads that branch out the interstate, such as interstate 75 or interstate 81.16:53[SPEAKER_04]: We feel that many of the possible Jane Does outside of the main six are from areas that do not fit this pattern and can thus be excluded.17:01[SPEAKER_04]: The only victim that is not found along an interstate is the Wetzel County West Virginia victim, who was only found along a state highway.17:09[SPEAKER_04]: We do recognize the difference in this one part of the M.O.17:12[SPEAKER_04]: But we also feel that this was most likely his first victim, known by looking at police data from the crime and estimations about time of death.17:20[SPEAKER_04]: It would not be that unusual for there to be a small change in M.O.17:24[SPEAKER_04]: after the first victim.17:25[SPEAKER_04]: that does not indicate a change in signature.17:28[SPEAKER_04]: That road still connects two major cities in West Virginia and the victim was possibly hitchhiking from one of those.17:35[SPEAKER_02]: Is V-heckle an 18-wheel semi for commercial cargo transport?17:42[SPEAKER_04]: The killer must possess a large enough vehicle to store the victims as several were held for a couple of days after death before they were dumped.17:50[SPEAKER_04]: The victims were also most likely killed inside this semi as well.17:54[SPEAKER_04]: Also, this semi would fit his travel habits and assumed occupation.17:59[SPEAKER_04]: Serial killers typically kill where they feel comfortable, and a truck driver would feel more comfortable on the inner state.18:05[SPEAKER_04]: Symmy trucks provide privacy by shielding the passenger side from road view, and pulled off to the side of the road.18:12[SPEAKER_04]: The semi also does not draw as much attention as any other vehicle when pulled off the side of the inner state.18:18[SPEAKER_04]: Also, most victims were seen near truck stops near the inner state, and a semi truck is the least noticeable of all vehicles in those locations.18:27[SPEAKER_02]: The question of race in these kinds of investigations is always tricky, especially when you have so little to go on.18:35[SPEAKER_02]: The students paid ten as white.18:39[SPEAKER_04]: All the victims are Caucasian.18:41[SPEAKER_04]: It is most common for serial killers to kill victims of the same race.18:45[SPEAKER_04]: Over 70% do.18:47[SPEAKER_04]: Most killers are comfortable killing victims of the same race as they are often found in areas that are racially homogenous to themselves and do not stand out when acquiring victims.18:57[SPEAKER_04]: The percentage of African American truck drivers in the 1980s was presumed lower than the average percentage for African Americans and other jobs.19:05[SPEAKER_04]: A truck and did require some form of certification to qualify for the job.19:10[SPEAKER_04]: He would also be much less suspicious in the south, which was still experiencing overt racism for a white to acquire white victims.19:18[SPEAKER_04]: It would therefore be much less suspicious if the perpetrator were white in the same races as his victim.19:25[SPEAKER_02]: They estimated his height at five foot nine inches to six foot two inches and his weight at 180 pounds to 270 pounds.19:36[SPEAKER_06]: The killer must be average height or taller in order to overpower the victims.19:40[SPEAKER_06]: Most of the victims fall within the average height ratio for women efficiently.19:44[SPEAKER_06]: It would not be practical for the killer to attack someone bigger, and taller than himself due to the fact that he used his hands to kill them.19:50[SPEAKER_06]: Also, if the killer had to carry his victims to the dump site, he would need to be able to hoist them and carry them around without leaving evidence of the body's movement, like drag or carry marks.19:59[SPEAKER_06]: On the contrary, if a trucker was massive, he misguided the victim to not being alone with him,20:06[SPEAKER_06]: The killer's weight must be average to above average in order to have the confidence that he can overpower the victims with only using his hands and brute strength.20:14[SPEAKER_06]: And smooth their bodies with little trouble using physical power.20:17[SPEAKER_06]: It is likely the killer has a muscular build due to the weight he kills and disposes of their bodies.20:22[SPEAKER_06]: Weight factors into a success in the methods of killing, including strangulation, suffocation, and blunt force trauma.20:29[SPEAKER_01]: And in what may be a somewhat surprising conclusion for most of us, the student's guest that he was likely involved in a long-term relationship and possibly even married.20:41[SPEAKER_06]: Organized killers are often capable of serious or long-term relationships.20:45[SPEAKER_06]: Ted Bundy was engaged, and Dennis Raider was married.20:49[SPEAKER_06]: However, if the killer is choosing a job such as a truck driver, it shows that he doesn't do well of conforming to societal expectations of having an ever-present boss with lots of conformity to rules.20:59[SPEAKER_06]: So, this killer were most likely to have been involved with serious relationships, including girlfriends, even long-term, and possibly even a life.21:08[SPEAKER_06]: You will also probably have close friends that after being told, may have seen some warning signs, like sudden rage or rant against his victim type, but most likely be surprised that he was responsible for so many violent and brutal acts.21:20[SPEAKER_01]: He was, by their estimation, an intelligent person capable of falling the people around him and staying one step ahead of the police.21:28[SPEAKER_06]: The killer shows all signs of being an organized killer, by acquiring, healing, and dumping bodies in separate states.21:35[SPEAKER_06]: He also lures his victims, instead of just killing them where they're found.21:38[SPEAKER_06]: Therefore, it is most likely that he is at least average, or just slightly above average in his intelligence, and understands basic police techniques, which has hated his ability to remain undetected.21:49[SPEAKER_06]: As a both average IQ helps them to understand that his desires are not normal, and that he must hide them, using what Harvey collectively referred to as the mask of sanity.21:57[SPEAKER_06]: It makes those around him feel that he is normal.21:59[SPEAKER_06]: It makes others feel it is in his presence, even though underneath he has a brutal desire to kill.22:06[SPEAKER_01]: Take special note of this last comment.22:08[SPEAKER_01]: It may be a tad generic, and a bit of trope, but it is still striking in light of what we've learned later in the investigation.22:17[SPEAKER_01]: Listen to what Alex says about the bot pro-file as cool, mission-orientated serial killers.22:24[SPEAKER_01]: Pro-bit of context, experts generally believe there are four different categories of serial killer.22:30[SPEAKER_01]: They are one through seekers, two mission-oriented killers, three vision-reak killers, and four power or control killers.22:44[SPEAKER_02]: The thrill seeker and power control killer categories are pretty self-explanatory.22:50[SPEAKER_02]: visionary killers are those who feel compelled to kill out of a supernatural sensibility or hallucination.22:58[SPEAKER_02]: They might think that God is telling them to do it, or the devil, or both.23:04[SPEAKER_02]: Mission oriented killers tend to have a more programmatic approach to killing.23:10[SPEAKER_02]: They kill with purpose and because of this, their victims tend to have things in common that make them undesirable,23:19[SPEAKER_02]: of some imaginary form of justice, because there is such a concrete purpose behind their killing, they kill quickly and efficiently, executing their mission with precision and consistency.23:32[SPEAKER_02]: This is what Alex had to say.23:35[SPEAKER_00]: We believe, and this is the one that we're really stuck on.23:40[SPEAKER_00]: On the seven motivations of serial killers, we felt like this was a mission oriented killer.23:49[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at there's a program on a computer, we got a rubric, and if you look at the, uh, I don't know, I think there's about 15 characteristics, you just go down there and check.24:00[SPEAKER_00]: He matches best with mission-oriented.24:03[SPEAKER_00]: So, if he is mission-oriented, and he feels like he's carrying out some type of mission against prostitutes, if he's not around them or he doesn't see them anymore, then maybe he doesn't feel like he needs to complete the mission.24:17[SPEAKER_00]: So, possibly his entrance into the trucking industry in 1981 might have given an opportunity, but also introduced to them to this lifestyle24:30[SPEAKER_00]: But if he left the trucky industry, got a different kind of job, then he might not have the opportunity, and he might not be seeing this all the time, and so maybe he was able to do something that allows him to deal with that, and he doesn't have to kill anymore.24:45[SPEAKER_02]: But why, I asked Alex, with someone have such a specific mission against red-headed prostitutes.24:53[SPEAKER_02]: With it being a mission, do you feel like it was specifically targeting red-headed prostitutes?24:59[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, now the mission may not to be get rid of redhead or prostitutes could just be prostitutes in general.25:07[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the redhead is some other factor that for whatever reason he likes, so that may or may not be part of the mission.25:15[SPEAKER_00]: But it might be part of whatever drives him romantically or whatever.25:20[SPEAKER_00]: Something from his past.25:22[SPEAKER_00]: People go on and on about this stuff about, oh, you know, I bet his mom and the red head, and she treated him like dirt.25:28[SPEAKER_00]: You will never know that until you catch him.25:38[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,25:54[SPEAKER_01]: Take me homeShow full transcript (267 segments)Listen to Foul Play: A Historical True Crime PodcastApple PodcastsSpotifyAmazon Musicthe M&M DispatchGet new Foul Play: A Historical True Crime Podcast episodes and case updates from across the network.WebsiteJoinEnjoying Foul Play: A Historical True Crime Podcast?Leave a rating on Apple 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