Foul Play: A Historical True Crime Podcast — Series 1N/A: Throwaways - Viral Justice UncoveredJanuary 4, 201420mEpisode 3Play EpisodeShow NotesViral justice brings light to cold cases with Throwaways' potent impact. Episode 3 uncovers... --- Support Foul Play: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/foulplaypodcast Website: https://www.mythsandmalice.com/show/foul-play/ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/foul-play-crime-series/id1525832703 Follow us: Instagram: @foulplaycrimeseries Twitter: @foulplaypodOur Sponsors:* Check out Kensington Publishing: https://www.kensingtonbooks.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyShare:X / TwitterFacebookCopy LinkShareCreditsShane Waters — Founder & HostWendy Cee — Co-HostProduced by Myths & MaliceTranscript254 segments0:00[SPEAKER_04]: Language and content in this episode may not be appropriate for all listeners.0:05[SPEAKER_04]: Listen our discretion is strongly advised.0:08[SPEAKER_04]: Some voices may come from voice actors, but the words are accurate to the interview described.0:29[SPEAKER_02]: Don't black our way Take me home0:44[SPEAKER_04]: After I started researching the case of the Barbaraville Jindo and sharing this story on foul play, smaller newspapers around the Bible Belt began reviving the story.0:56[SPEAKER_04]: Crime bloggers began writing about it online, encouraged by the surge of interest.1:03[SPEAKER_04]: I called up a dear friend of mine who is a fellow investigator, Jim Mahaskins, and discussed some of the ways in which we might draw yet more attention to the case.1:15[SPEAKER_04]: Our suggestion was simple, what attached on something that would soon change the face of our investigation.1:30[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's easy, and then I don't know how to do it.1:33[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I can, I can set one.1:34[SPEAKER_02]: Here I am, like, yeah, here, here, change this.1:38[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I can set one up.1:39[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we can just start to best people to make contributions, and I don't know.1:45[SPEAKER_02]: We could even, like, do you want me to try and get in touch with some of these journalists of these newspapers and ass, but they, if they would be willing to talk to you, and definitely.1:57[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.2:00[SPEAKER_03]: I think most of us have an outmoded idea of what detectives work looks like and how it works.2:06[SPEAKER_03]: We probably picture a shrewd analytical genius in a tan overcoat who always asks the right questions in the right moment of the right person.2:16[SPEAKER_03]: He tells the tables on predators by beating them in their own game.2:20[SPEAKER_03]: His attention to detail is one notch above their own.2:23[SPEAKER_03]: And he notices the one or two things they somehow overlooked.2:27[SPEAKER_03]: He manages to trip them up and corner them, not with criminal tactics, but with the law and his own superior mind.2:35[SPEAKER_03]: In this somewhat antiquated idea of the detective, Justice is a cat and mouse game, a kind of jewel between each criminal and the investigators in2:46[SPEAKER_03]: Putting people away is like winning a game of chess where the most important thing is having the most penetrating intellect on your side.2:54[SPEAKER_03]: In reality it's much simpler than that.2:57[SPEAKER_03]: The detective's work is an informative game, whoever controls it wins.3:02[SPEAKER_03]: And in the information age, the internet age, information is at once easier and more difficult to control.3:09[SPEAKER_03]: Because it's easier than ever before for people to share it.3:13[SPEAKER_03]: It's incredibly difficult to control information regionally or even nationally if what you're looking to do is contain it or keep it out of the wrong people's hands, this is of course the criminal agenda.3:28[SPEAKER_04]: If what you're looking for is to draw it out from all corners and collate into a meaningful, coherent whole, controlling information is easier than ever before.3:39[SPEAKER_04]: This type of control is the investigative agenda, so one of the best things that you can do today, especially in a cold case, and especially in the case of identification, is simply to make the case public.3:55[SPEAKER_04]: the more information and the more people who see it, the greater the likelihood, someone will know what they're looking at, all of which is how I came to meet Elizabeth Regina.4:07[SPEAKER_04]: Her friends call her Red.4:10[SPEAKER_04]: Elizabeth's aunt, Dolores Jones, is a big fan of the show, CSI, and really any of the CSI's, Miami, New York, whatever.4:21[SPEAKER_04]: As long as there are Husky voiced bad boy good guys, making criminals pay, and doing it with science, she's in.4:30[SPEAKER_04]: Because she's a fan of these shows, Facebook suggested to her, a number of these true crime fan pages.4:37[SPEAKER_04]: And in one of them, she saw a crude artist rendering of her own sister.4:43[SPEAKER_03]: She contacted Regina and also the police and the police contacted Shane.4:49[SPEAKER_03]: They gave him Elizabeth's number and he called her up with Gemma in early April 2018.4:54[SPEAKER_03]: Elizabeth is short just under five foot five inches tall and has red hair, haze lies,5:05[SPEAKER_03]: the last few years she has worked as a nursing home.5:08[SPEAKER_03]: She told Shane and Gemma that her mother had struggled with addiction and had been in and out of mental health clinics and hospitals long before she was born.5:17[SPEAKER_03]: She disappeared when Elizabeth was less than one year old and her daughter had grown up believing along with the rest of the family that she had abandoned them.5:31[SPEAKER_04]: So Elizabeth, your mom just like disappeared a couple of weeks after you were born.5:35[SPEAKER_01]: This is how I was told.5:37[SPEAKER_01]: I was told that my dad was at work.5:40[SPEAKER_01]: He worked for the town of Spendell.5:42[SPEAKER_01]: He would come home every day on his lunch break.5:44[SPEAKER_01]: She would have his lunch ready.5:46[SPEAKER_01]: She knew exactly what time every day he would come home.5:50[SPEAKER_01]: He came home one day, but kids are gone.5:52[SPEAKER_01]: I am there, red, crying, so can wet.5:57[SPEAKER_01]: She was nowhere to be found.6:01[SPEAKER_01]: My daddy got me and you took me to my aunt's house.6:05[SPEAKER_01]: He took me to my biological father's sister's house.6:08[SPEAKER_01]: Even though he knew that I wasn't his biological, like he still allowed them to be a part of my life, he knew.6:14[SPEAKER_01]: It's weird because all of us have right here, except for Sam, who was the baby at the time, when they had all got adopted.6:22[SPEAKER_01]: My mom's sister adopted him and the other three went to a family.6:27[SPEAKER_01]: They all got adopted together, but they all knew each other.6:30[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even know I had siblings until I was probably my son's age, like 11 or 12.6:38[SPEAKER_01]: Then I got to meet them.6:40[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know he was my real dad until I was maybe 16.6:44[SPEAKER_01]: You asked me a question earlier about my grandparents.6:47[SPEAKER_01]: They were passed away before I was born, of never met them.6:51[SPEAKER_01]: And then my mom's mom passed away years ago.6:53[SPEAKER_01]: I never got to meet her.6:56[SPEAKER_01]: I just got to meet my grandfather, who just recently passed in December.7:02[SPEAKER_01]: I know she's been arrested for solicitation more than one time.7:04[SPEAKER_01]: I know she was arrested for trespassing.7:07[SPEAKER_01]: She had court here the day they found her body, April 1st, 1985.7:13[SPEAKER_01]: The witness stated that he had seen her the previous Thursday in the paper.7:18[SPEAKER_01]: On the phone, he said that was the only time he had seen her was at the truck stop.7:24[SPEAKER_01]: In the paper,7:26[SPEAKER_01]: He seen her the previous Thursday, which would have been March 28th.7:31[SPEAKER_01]: She had court here, though she was in Corbin on the CB.7:35[SPEAKER_01]: She was probably trying to get back here to court.7:37[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm guessing.7:39[SPEAKER_01]: Because by this point, the kids were already adopted out.7:43[SPEAKER_01]: She just disappeared.7:45[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, we found out that she was still around.7:48[SPEAKER_01]: We just don't know where.7:51[SPEAKER_01]: I wish I had the police records in front of me so I could give you an exact date.7:55[SPEAKER_01]: I had went to Spindle Police Department and got a copy of her rest records.7:59[SPEAKER_01]: With the last one in there, she had got a rest in February.8:02[SPEAKER_01]: Mind you, we were thinking that she had last three weeks after I was born, so maybe April, you know, almost me.8:11[SPEAKER_01]: She had got arrested.8:12[SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember the date.8:13[SPEAKER_01]: Almost 10 months after I was born.8:15[SPEAKER_01]: It was like 10 or 11 months after I was born.8:19[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like telling my auntie, I was like, wait a minute, where was she at?8:25[SPEAKER_01]: She was still here, but where was she?8:28[SPEAKER_01]: My mom and my dad never drove.8:30[SPEAKER_01]: Back then, kids worked pretty much.8:32[SPEAKER_01]: Someone to school, if they were fortunate enough, but some didn't, they were poor.8:37[SPEAKER_01]: So they had to stay home and work and stuff.8:41[SPEAKER_01]: My mom, I believe, only had a fourth grade education.8:44[SPEAKER_01]: She couldn't have been able to read the signs to know where she was going unless it was familiar, you know?8:50[SPEAKER_04]: Do you know what her court date was for?8:53[SPEAKER_01]: For trespassing, I don't know if my daddy had her trespassed from the house or what it was for.8:59[SPEAKER_01]: I'll just know it says trespass.9:02[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't have the papers on front of me, but I remember the date and the paper, the witness had stated he's seen her.9:08[SPEAKER_01]: have actually started me in timeline and I had to go back like from the burst all the way back to what he said the previous and I was like that would have been March 28th and then on the phone like he like her clothes were different.9:24[SPEAKER_01]: The time was different.9:25[SPEAKER_01]: He said that was the only time he had seen her.9:28[SPEAKER_01]: You've got a day.9:29[SPEAKER_01]: You've seen her that night, and the previous Thursday.9:32[SPEAKER_01]: On the phone, he says she had some kind of a carry bag, like, overnight carry bag, maybe had a drawstring.9:39[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when you leave hospitals, you have like a bag, something like that.9:43[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it has like a drawstring with your stuff in it.9:46[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why I want the last of the service date from Broughton because Broughton would be closer because that's in Morganton.9:54[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't believe it would have been the one in Raleigh because it's like four hours, the opposite for me.9:59[SPEAKER_01]: Even if I was coming to you guys, it would be the opposite way.10:02[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really thinking that at least the last one.10:06[SPEAKER_01]: Who picked her up?10:08[SPEAKER_01]: Did she make a phone call?10:09[SPEAKER_01]: Who did she call?10:11[SPEAKER_01]: Who picked her up?10:12[SPEAKER_01]: Was she saying enough to leave on her own?10:14[SPEAKER_01]: Did they even let people leave on their own back then?10:17[SPEAKER_04]: You know which hospital you were born in, right?10:20[SPEAKER_01]: I was on born in a hospital, I was born at home because she wouldn't go to a hospital.10:26[SPEAKER_04]: So she didn't disappear from a hospital, she disappeared from home.10:30[SPEAKER_01]: My auntie thinks maybe she knew he come home every day for lunch.10:34[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe she'd already planned it in her mind.10:37[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I've done the last mother kids.10:39[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just gonna leave her to.10:41[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying this is a scenario because I thought of any and everything.10:46[SPEAKER_01]: It's a possibility.10:47[SPEAKER_01]: It could have happened.10:50[SPEAKER_01]: She just couldn't do it no more.10:52[SPEAKER_01]: She lost all her kids, and here she is having another one.10:55[SPEAKER_01]: You know, she probably felt like she didn't deserve me.10:58[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.11:00[SPEAKER_01]: So he comes home.11:01[SPEAKER_01]: She's not there.11:02[SPEAKER_01]: She knows he's coming there.11:03[SPEAKER_01]: She could have hidden the woods.11:05[SPEAKER_01]: Probably just to watch to see that I was gonna be okay that he came home.11:09[SPEAKER_01]: And once she's seen that he was home, that maybe she left, she couldn't have left on her own.11:18[SPEAKER_03]: Elizabeth had shared the photos of Barbaraville's Jane Doe with her siblings and her stepdad, as she had never seen her mother in person.11:27[SPEAKER_04]: Have your siblings and your dad look to the pictures that you've looked at?11:31[SPEAKER_04]: What do they think about it?11:33[SPEAKER_01]: Massive links have seen them.11:34[SPEAKER_01]: They think that it's her.11:36[SPEAKER_04]: Here we asked Elizabeth if her stepdad knew about the chain dough.11:40[SPEAKER_04]: And she told us that she hasn't told him.11:42[SPEAKER_04]: She mentioned that he will be turning 70 soon.11:44[SPEAKER_04]: And she isn't sure how he would take the news.11:49[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he never left.11:50[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he did love her.11:51[SPEAKER_01]: And they just had problems like most marriages do.11:54[SPEAKER_01]: And he just never moved.11:56[SPEAKER_01]: Because he always thought she was coming back because she always did.12:00[SPEAKER_03]: Shane asked her to recount the way she first encountered the case, the letter to believe her mother had not abandoned her after all.12:07[SPEAKER_04]: How do you guys come about that specific Jane Doe case?12:12[SPEAKER_04]: How did this whole thing come about with submitting DNA in the whole process?12:17[SPEAKER_01]: It is like Easter and Friday the 13th are just significant dates.12:23[SPEAKER_01]: It was Friday the 13th of last year or not to her.12:25[SPEAKER_01]: My aunt plays her games and like, we've always been in to like unsolved mysteries, criminal minds, bones, forensics, anything that's got to do with any criminal activity.12:36[SPEAKER_01]: We've just always been into it.12:38[SPEAKER_01]: And on Facebook, certain pages that you go to they'll suggest like other pages you might like.12:44[SPEAKER_01]: Well, she's playing her game.12:47[SPEAKER_01]: She's seen up in the corner of her computer.12:50[SPEAKER_01]: It said pages you might like.12:52[SPEAKER_01]: It's really just God placing it there.12:54[SPEAKER_01]: I guess he said it was time, I don't know, but she clicked on it.12:58[SPEAKER_01]: It was the unidentified and unclaimed people page.13:01[SPEAKER_01]: Well, instead of going ahead and enjoying it, she just went to the photos part of it.13:07[SPEAKER_01]: At that time, that post-mortem photo was near the top.13:11[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you go, I mean, there's so many people that are missing and is unreal.13:15[SPEAKER_01]: How many people are missing and like nobody knows nothing, it's crazy.13:19[SPEAKER_01]: She went to the photos and she was scrolling.13:22[SPEAKER_01]: Something just, I don't know, just told her, she was like, oh my god.13:27[SPEAKER_01]: Even before she told Chris, the criminal analyst that reached out to me from KSP, she told him, do not call it Lizbeth.13:35[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to post this.13:37[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want her to see it until I know for sure.13:39[SPEAKER_01]: Dalgona, he did it anyway.13:42[SPEAKER_01]: He had like, message me on Facebook the 14th of October the next day.13:46[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was a joke.13:48[SPEAKER_01]: A screenshot of it and I sent it to my hand.13:49[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, why is he doing this?13:52[SPEAKER_01]: Is this for you?13:53[SPEAKER_01]: And she was like, yes, it's for real.13:57[SPEAKER_01]: She would have never.13:58[SPEAKER_01]: If she would've had any thought that it wasn't her, she would've never done that.14:04[SPEAKER_01]: She clicked on the photo.14:05[SPEAKER_01]: It came up with the N.A.14:07[SPEAKER_01]: M.U.S.14:08[SPEAKER_01]: information, like the age, the day, the hot, like she's actually shorter than me.14:14[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, all of those pictures and things that you've seen over the years, does it look like her?14:19[SPEAKER_01]: Do you like feel something?14:21[SPEAKER_01]: She says, yeah, I know it's her.14:24[SPEAKER_01]: She said, if I didn't honey, I would have never said anything about it.14:29[SPEAKER_01]: that's how it came about.14:30[SPEAKER_01]: She contacted the police there and they contacted me and set up for the DNA test, which was the 24th of October.14:38[SPEAKER_04]: With so much time that had passed, what did your aunt, brother, and sister's thing could have happened to your mom after all this time?14:45[SPEAKER_01]: I think we just figured she moved on or died.14:48[SPEAKER_01]: 30 something years is a long time with no contact of any kind.14:52[SPEAKER_01]: Not a phone call, not a card, not a visit.14:55[SPEAKER_01]: When you watch criminal shows like we do, some people probably do just up and leave in despair.15:01[SPEAKER_01]: Me personally, being a mother and having kids of my own, I couldn't see myself doing that.15:07[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she could have willingly done that.15:09[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't see myself packing my kids' stuff and being like, here, I can't do it anymore.15:14[SPEAKER_04]: What do you hope happens now, Elizabeth?15:17[SPEAKER_01]: In my mind, just getting her name back and put on her tombstone is just a piece.15:23[SPEAKER_01]: It's a major piece, but it's just a piece.15:25[SPEAKER_01]: I really hope they do go and investigate.15:27[SPEAKER_01]: She was naked.15:29[SPEAKER_01]: The one thing she had on was mismatch socks, like two pairs of mismatch socks and two necklaces and the boots.15:39[SPEAKER_03]: Apart from her physical appearance, the only real identifying features of the Barbaraville Jane Doe were these two necklaces and a pair of boots that were found two miles away and who never been proven to belong to the body in the fridge.15:55[SPEAKER_04]: Did your brother recognize the necklace?15:57[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he recognized both of them.16:00[SPEAKER_04]: Elizabeth told us that her brother gave her mom a necklace, that represented the mascot of a nearby school.16:07[SPEAKER_04]: The school's mascot was in the eagle and flight about to attack, which is exactly what one of the necklaces found on the victim is.16:15[SPEAKER_04]: Jim and I later followed up on this lead, and we did find this particular school's mascot.16:22[SPEAKER_04]: It's a perfect match.16:24[SPEAKER_04]: Elizabeth also told us about how her stepdad gave one of her brothers money, to buy a necklace for her mom's birthday.16:32[SPEAKER_04]: That necklace also matches with the second one that she was found wearing.16:37[SPEAKER_04]: I ask Elizabeth if her family ever reported her mother missing.16:41[SPEAKER_04]: It seems unlucky to me that the police working her missing person's case and those investigating the nearby murder victim never crossed paths or compared notes.16:53[SPEAKER_04]: It's understandable as they were separated by a four-hour drive and in two different states Kentucky and North Carolina, but it's not like they were on opposite sides of the country.17:04[SPEAKER_01]: They did report her missing but the sheriff's office never filed it.17:09[SPEAKER_01]: She was a prostitute who cares blah blah.17:11[SPEAKER_04]: They probably also didn't like the fact that she had traveled around a lot.17:15[SPEAKER_04]: I see what you're saying because they would probably see her as a transient type of person.17:20[SPEAKER_04]: And that time they probably left that alone.17:23[SPEAKER_01]: I think she had some schizophrenia going on too because like I said, my dad's sister, my aunt, her and my mom was good friends.17:30[SPEAKER_01]: They were like best friends.17:32[SPEAKER_01]: She said she would like rubber hands together, you know like how when you're washing your hands, she would like do that.17:39[SPEAKER_01]: She would wear like long coats in the summertime and shorts in the winter time.17:43[SPEAKER_01]: She just wasn't herself.17:45[SPEAKER_04]: Knowing other things that your dad has told you, your aunt and your siblings, can you think of any reason, why anyone who was around your mom would have wanted to harm her at that time?17:54[SPEAKER_01]: No, Carl was eating dinner one night and there was a song, and he posted it to the group.18:00[SPEAKER_01]: There was a song that came on.18:01[SPEAKER_01]: The name of the song was, I got a name.18:05[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks to Dolores' interest in crime trauma and our much maligned frenemies at Facebook.18:12[SPEAKER_04]: The Barbaraville Jane Doe has a name.18:15[SPEAKER_04]: She is SB Regina Black Pilgrim.18:18[SPEAKER_04]: We celebrate that for what it's worth.18:22[SPEAKER_04]: But that still leaves four other redheads and identified.18:26[SPEAKER_04]: And one serial killer, unaccounted four.18:29[SPEAKER_04]: A part of Elizabeth's story that really frustrated me was18:36[SPEAKER_01]: They did report her missing, but the sheriff's office never filed it.18:40[SPEAKER_01]: She was the prostitute, who cares?18:43[SPEAKER_03]: This is how women disappear.18:45[SPEAKER_03]: And this is how serial killers thrive on American highways.18:50[SPEAKER_03]: Hearing that brought to mind similar things, we'd heard from other trucks stop workers as well as from law enforcement.18:58[SPEAKER_03]: A couple of comments from the lotless documentary came to mind, one from a worker, and another from a truck stop put security guard.19:07[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen the police beat girls, you know, there's one girl she ran and he clipped her up and slammed her on the curb and broke two of her ribs.19:18[SPEAKER_05]: They're so far gone, like they're not even a human being to me anymore, like they're just some piece of trash scumb that's out there spreading disease and selling your drugs.19:30[SPEAKER_05]: And it's sad, you know, because, I mean, at one point, yeah, that was, you know, somebody's a little girl.19:35[SPEAKER_05]: And it's not anymore.19:37[SPEAKER_04]: Special things to Elizabeth for sharing her mother's story.19:41[SPEAKER_04]: Additional research provided by Jennifer Sweeter.20:00[SPEAKER_02]: Love like a way Take me homeShow full transcript (254 segments)Listen to Foul Play: A Historical True Crime PodcastApple PodcastsSpotifyAmazon Musicthe M&M DispatchGet new Foul Play: A Historical True Crime Podcast episodes and case updates from across the network.WebsiteJoinEnjoying Foul Play: A Historical True Crime Podcast?Leave a rating on Apple Podcasts. 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