0:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Alright guys, welcome back to foul play, I have Gemma here again. 0:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Gemma, it's so good to see your smiling face again. 0:25 [SPEAKER_02]: How are you doing? 0:27 [SPEAKER_04]: I've been sick, but I recuperated enough because this is so important, tonight's episode is imperative that we get this out, and so I would do this from the hospital like I had to. 0:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I believe that. 0:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I guess tonight is one of the most important people in my life, Shane, besides you. 0:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited to hear from her. 0:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited to get into the details about what we're going to discuss today. 0:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, as we previewed for your listeners tonight, we know you guys have been waiting for this. 1:05 [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to talk about Gerard Kube. 1:08 [SPEAKER_04]: And as everybody might know, by now, in July of 2023 to reporters from the Baltimore banner, 1:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Julie Sharper and Justin Fenton visited Cube in his home in Summers Point, New Jersey, which is on the Jersey Shore. 1:32 [SPEAKER_04]: And went to his home, they had spent quite a bit of time before they went talking to various women, more than a couple, about allegations of abuse against coup. 1:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Now most of your listeners, including Shane and I, we think that coups. 1:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Now looking back after several years his presentation and the keepers is odd to say the least and we're going to talk tonight a little bit about the article itself and what the article the main points of it and then we're going to introduce our guest who is in that article and she's very public about what happened to her and we're going to give her a chance to talk about it. 2:23 [SPEAKER_02]: From my understanding, the attorney general report went out, and there were two women who read through the report. 2:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And when they got to a certain person's name, who they had accused of rape, the attorney general's report was referring to him as the Jesuit intern. 2:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And that is kind of what started the article. 2:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that correct? 2:47 [SPEAKER_04]: correct. 2:48 [SPEAKER_04]: And what was strange about that is that those two women, and not just those two, there are three, four, five women had reported to the Attorney General about their experiences with him, which were very inappropriate, and he was not named in the article. 3:09 [SPEAKER_04]: And we all questioned that. 3:10 [SPEAKER_04]: In fact, I wrote an op-ed, the kind of said, okay, who's the Jesuit in turn, hit 3:17 [SPEAKER_04]: when Archbishop Keo was open the first year and the second year it was open. 3:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Jesuit seminarians came and taught religion to the students because they were required as part of their training to teach in a Catholic high school. 3:39 [SPEAKER_04]: and Gerard Cube was one of them. 3:43 [SPEAKER_04]: He had met Kathy, says Nick, the year before that at a conference. 3:48 [SPEAKER_04]: And so when he was assigned or came to Kiyo, he already knew her. 3:54 [SPEAKER_04]: And he told me several years ago, he had no idea about teaching and Kathy said, come in my classroom and watch. 4:02 [SPEAKER_04]: And he said, that's how we learned how to interact with teenagers. 4:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, after two years, the archdiocese and the school decided that they would not be using the interns anymore. 4:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Coop claims that it was because the school felt that the interns were too liberal. 4:24 [SPEAKER_04]: I disagree with that. 4:25 [SPEAKER_04]: It was a very progressive school. 4:28 [SPEAKER_04]: The Jesuits did a good job. 4:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, they use a secrotic method, where you interact with your students and you talk and you have conversations and there's no preaching. 4:40 [SPEAKER_04]: But it's his claim that the Jesuits left because the school said they were presenting liberal ideas, which they thought were too liberal. 4:53 [SPEAKER_04]: and as presented in the capers, there was some kind of relationship between the two of them. 5:00 [SPEAKER_04]: He says he was deeply in love with her. 5:03 [SPEAKER_04]: I frankly don't believe that she felt the same way about him. 5:08 [SPEAKER_04]: That's beside the point because that's my opinion. 5:12 [SPEAKER_04]: So the women that the two reporter spoke to 5:24 [SPEAKER_04]: And two of them who reported this to the Attorney General were from Maryland. 5:31 [SPEAKER_04]: The Attorney General could not include the allegations from two women in Virginia and from our guests tonight in New York in the Attorney General's report. 5:43 [SPEAKER_04]: So I hope that clarifies that. 5:45 [SPEAKER_04]: So there are numerous allegations and they are credible. 5:52 [SPEAKER_04]: And so what happened was when the reporters went to visit him, they showed up on an ounce and he left the men. 6:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, I don't know if I'd you shame, but if somebody came to your house and you didn't know them and they went reporters and they said we want to talk to you about sexually abusing teenagers, you probably kick them out and call them police, right? 6:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 6:20 [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, my first line of defense is always I do not recall I need an attorney. 6:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I would not talk to anyone. 6:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And I would I believe them. 6:30 [SPEAKER_04]: They spent two hours there. 6:32 [SPEAKER_04]: And all of that's outlined in the article, he used the very same answers that we have heard him use for 50 some years that he knew nothing about it, he never heard of the abuse until the 90s that he never met Joseph Maskell. 6:53 [SPEAKER_04]: That's a biggie. 6:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Coop was assigned and lived at a retreat house in an apple is called Man Risa, and Maskel took many groups of adults, teenagers, police officers, lots of people to retreat there. 7:12 [SPEAKER_04]: A retreat is when you go away for a couple of days and you think about God. 7:17 [SPEAKER_04]: basically. 7:18 [SPEAKER_04]: And so it's not a large campus. 7:21 [SPEAKER_04]: It's one large building. 7:22 [SPEAKER_04]: It's now senior housing, but it has one dining room. 7:26 [SPEAKER_04]: And there would be no way that their payers could not have crossed. 7:32 [SPEAKER_04]: while Kube was living there. 7:35 [SPEAKER_04]: He claims he was living somewhere else, but he was living at Man Race up when the alleged abuse happened. 7:43 [SPEAKER_04]: So the two reporters spent all this time with him. 7:47 [SPEAKER_04]: He did say that three of the women had written to him last year. 7:51 [SPEAKER_04]: He described the letters. 7:55 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to quote him as repulsive. 7:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Now let's say letters were true. 8:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, they may be repulsive to him, but they came from the hearts of women who were hurt when they were teenagers. 8:13 [SPEAKER_04]: It's an inappropriate word to use when somebody writes to you and says, you know, you abused me, and that was wrong. 8:22 [SPEAKER_04]: So he denies all of it. 8:25 [SPEAKER_04]: and he continued talking about how all this came about. 8:31 [SPEAKER_04]: He blamed number one, Tom Nudgen. 8:35 [SPEAKER_04]: He said, Tom Nudgen, planted the seed. 8:39 [SPEAKER_04]: for these people to alleged that he abused them. 8:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, Tom Nugent knew a couple of these women, but didn't know most of them, didn't know our guests tonight, didn't know the women who were from another state who were abused when they were 12 and 7. 8:59 [SPEAKER_04]: So, that's not a good excuse, it's also not accurate, and it puts the owners directly on Tom. 9:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Tom is like, I am, he's very outspoken, and so we become targets, and people trash us. 9:15 [SPEAKER_04]: And you have to stand up for what you believe, and so he puts the blame one time for this. 9:21 [SPEAKER_04]: and conclusion about the article, they came away from there with the information that went into the article, but he denies all of it. 9:32 [SPEAKER_02]: One of the things that he says is that it was a case of mistaken identity, he points to someone else having the same first name. 9:43 [SPEAKER_02]: But what was interesting is that these women are not 9:50 [SPEAKER_02]: it's how he looked his eyes, how he presented himself. 9:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So the fact that he had his name that they shared a first name that was a non-answer to me. 10:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, he was very adamant that Tom Nuget was to blame for this whole thing. 10:08 [SPEAKER_02]: So that was a big finger pointing to me. 10:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think it's also, yeah, I think it's also significant that 10:17 [SPEAKER_04]: The mistake and identity, he said, his voice has changed and his appearance has changed, but this is a good example. 10:27 [SPEAKER_04]: I've reconnected. 10:28 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm 71 because of the keepers with people that knew me when I was in high school. 10:35 [SPEAKER_04]: They recognize my voice. 10:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Your voice doesn't change that much. 10:39 [SPEAKER_04]: It changes when you're 12 in your guy, but your voice doesn't change that much. 10:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Your general appearance doesn't change that much. 10:49 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's his excuse for that. 10:51 [SPEAKER_04]: I also will say that I have, and some people might fault me for this, I have kept a neutral but polite line of communication with him. 11:02 [SPEAKER_04]: only because I'd like him to out himself. 11:06 [SPEAKER_04]: And after this episode, I'm going to send him the episode. 11:10 [SPEAKER_04]: I have to be very careful. 11:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I fear for my own safe date. 11:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know who he knows, but I find the stories and the ones in the article, there are three. 11:21 [SPEAKER_04]: They are very credible. 11:24 [SPEAKER_04]: And I believe there's 11:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we've always given, we call him Jerry, but his real name is Gerard. 11:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 11:35 [SPEAKER_02]: We've always given him an opportunity to come on, but he's always refused to be questioned. 11:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 11:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Another thing that I wanted to bring up is that he mentioned in his defense that he wasn't teaching at the time that the accusations of the two women, Akiyo took place. 11:53 [SPEAKER_02]: So he would have needed a car 11:58 [SPEAKER_02]: which was Catholic University, I believe, is what the article says. 12:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Where he was living? 12:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 12:04 [SPEAKER_04]: No, he was living at Mount Risa, which was in anapolis an hour away. 12:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And then later in the article, he kind of disputed that first he said, I didn't have a car. 12:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Then later he says, while there was a car, but he shared it with the other priests. 12:22 [SPEAKER_02]: So it kind of like switched, but then we also know that the people who were abusing people. 12:27 [SPEAKER_02]: It was, I mean, this is a ring. 12:28 [SPEAKER_02]: This is a network of people. 12:30 [SPEAKER_02]: So if you are a part of this ring of abusers, 12:36 [SPEAKER_02]: your car poorly. 12:37 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a non-defense to me. 12:38 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you don't need a car. 12:41 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that really is not a big defense for me. 12:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Another thing that really shocked me when I read it. 12:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess it shocked me because of just the way that people describe Kathy and also the sentence was out of left field for me. 13:01 [SPEAKER_02]: but he mentioned to the reporters who were there, that in September of 1969, he and Kathy attempted unsuccessfully to have sex. 13:13 [SPEAKER_02]: And I have no reason to know why he would have mentioned that to anyone. 13:20 [SPEAKER_02]: That baffled me and it also confused me and it made, it's just wonderful, very uncomfortable. 13:28 [SPEAKER_04]: And you know what, it's right out there with his comment in the capers about a police officer presenting, it's embarrassing to even talk about presenting vagina to him right and he stands by that and he told me myself. 13:46 [SPEAKER_04]: that he did not pass the second polygraph test when Kathy was found. 13:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And he says that it's that officer that performed that polygraph test that went in the back room and came out with Kathy's body part. 14:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, first of all, I know that the polygraph was done at the police station. 14:07 [SPEAKER_04]: There was at no time any body parts. 14:11 [SPEAKER_04]: of hers at the police station. 14:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Her body was taken to the medical examiner's her family had to unfortunately identify her there, her dad did it, and that is where she remained. 14:26 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, if that cop was trying to shock him, I don't believe it, I don't believe it. 14:32 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's bizarre, but to even bring it up is like him saying, we tried unsuccessfully to have sex. 14:40 [SPEAKER_04]: What does that supposed to mean? 14:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And he set up two two reporters who will print it. 14:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And to me, this is embarrassing for a victim. 14:53 [SPEAKER_02]: So the vagina and a bag thing, that's an embarrassing thing for a victim and this we attempted to have sex. 15:01 [SPEAKER_02]: This is an embarrassing thing for a victim who everyone looks at as a very positive person. 15:10 [SPEAKER_02]: So it was just a very, very bizarre to me, very, very bizarre. 15:19 [SPEAKER_02]: life can get overwhelming, and talking to someone can make all the difference. 15:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 15:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and as little as a couple of days, you can connect by message, phone, or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 15:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And if the first therapist 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is the means through which we can make a difference. 17:38 [SPEAKER_06]: We're here to empower you to also become advocates no matter where or who you are. 17:44 [SPEAKER_06]: Whether you're a seasoned true crime fan or a new to the genre, we invite you to join us on the journey of discovery and advocacy. 17:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Nathagazian advocacy is available wherever you get your podcasts. 18:08 [SPEAKER_02]: is that Cube dismissed some other accusations of letters that he had received. 18:13 [SPEAKER_02]: While the reporters were there, he evidently showed them letters that he had received from women who had accused him of wrongdoing. 18:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And I believe he had four letters with him, although he wouldn't show the reporters the letters. 18:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And he said that these four women wrote him these letters. 18:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And one of them was from a woman who who we were referred to as Ronnie. 18:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And he dismissed her accusations. 18:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And why don't you talk about that for a moment, Jim, and then introduce our guest. 18:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Right. 18:47 [SPEAKER_04]: So as you all may have figured, our guest tonight is Ronnie and we're pale. 18:53 [SPEAKER_04]: And Ronnie is one of my best friends that I've never met. 18:57 [SPEAKER_04]: And she and I have met soul, heart, mind. 19:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I know that when I finally meet her, we're going to be in tears because we're like sisters and we get each other. 19:08 [SPEAKER_04]: She is a major badass. 19:12 [SPEAKER_04]: And I believe everything she just told me, why in the world, which somebody put themselves out there and make this stuff up. 19:23 [SPEAKER_04]: There is no reason. 19:26 [SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to turn this over to Ronnie. 19:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Ronnie lives in New York City. 19:32 [SPEAKER_04]: And I did tell her before we started that we don't all listen as fast as she talks. 19:39 [SPEAKER_04]: I love this woman. 19:40 [SPEAKER_04]: And I can say that to her. 19:41 [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to ask you to start from the beginning about how you and your family came to know Jerry Coob. 19:50 [SPEAKER_04]: and then we'll let you take it from there. 19:52 [SPEAKER_04]: So welcome, my friend. 19:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, Gemma, hey, Shane. 19:56 [SPEAKER_03]: You guys, thanks for all of your hard work on this and Shane, your other work as well on LTA. 20:03 [SPEAKER_03]: This is really amazing. 20:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Gemma, we're finally having this conversation. 20:07 [SPEAKER_03]: So where do I start? 20:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let me just say, I'm Irish Catholic. 20:12 [SPEAKER_03]: And my family was in the biz so to speak. 20:19 [SPEAKER_03]: who are nuns and a couple priests in the family. 20:23 [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, pretty serious Catholic upbringing. 20:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I went to Catholic school for kindergarten first, second, third. 20:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll just go right to how I know Jericho. 20:37 [SPEAKER_03]: He basically has been in my life, my whole life. 20:41 [SPEAKER_03]: He and my mother were classmates and eighth grade. 20:45 [SPEAKER_03]: He would claim they were best friends. 20:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I have since garnered more information about that from my mother and in fact, not best friends then. 20:54 [SPEAKER_03]: But that was the legend he kind of promoted on all of us. 20:58 [SPEAKER_03]: But there was not even a promotion of a legend because he was always kind of there. 21:03 [SPEAKER_03]: In the summer of 1969, I turned seven, he brought to our home twice from Maryland, this awesome, unbelievably cool non-sister Kathy Ceznic. 21:19 [SPEAKER_03]: up to visit us and she was just sparklingly beautiful and one of the big things for me was that I got to talk to her about Jesus because I was taking my first communion lessons and I'd be making my first communion and this is really exciting when you come from a big Catholic family like that. 21:38 [SPEAKER_03]: So she was just so loving and I have to say that that was one of the two many things for me 21:49 [SPEAKER_03]: How you and Abby and the other ladies Jenna described Kathy and I started kind of yelling at the TV That's who I knew. 22:00 [SPEAKER_03]: That's Kathy. 22:01 [SPEAKER_03]: That's Kathy. 22:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I never forgot her and The reason we're taping this on January 3rd, which is the anniversary of one Kathy's body was discovered. 22:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So rest in peace loving Kathy says Nick, but whenever next fairy came back to our home visit 22:20 [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember asking my mom why is Jerry so sad and she said, because Kathy died. 22:34 [SPEAKER_03]: And that was period end of sentence asked me no more questions about this and you know God bless my mom she doesn't want to tell us seven year old that she was murdered and found frozen so she said she died and I knew what it meant that someone died because my grandma died when I was really young and that was the huge loss in our family like my grandma's death created this huge hole so the fact that my mom said she died but also sent me this message. 23:01 [SPEAKER_03]: thou shalt not ask anymore questions. 23:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Always stuck with me. 23:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, I guess in 2004 something something spurred my brother to talk to me about it. 23:15 [SPEAKER_03]: And then I went online and I found the 1994 son article and read about that. 23:23 [SPEAKER_03]: And then I was like, I had already had a different 23:31 [SPEAKER_03]: before I remembered what happened when I was younger. 23:34 [SPEAKER_03]: So in 2004, is when I wrote to him and we had a conversation and Shane, let's go right to those defenses. 23:44 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you guys said, oh, there was a similarly named priest who lived nearby. 23:48 [SPEAKER_03]: This person has changed his story 50 times over 50 years about what happened. 23:57 [SPEAKER_03]: So as far as the other person who had a similar name, interesting, you should mention that chain because during this conversation I had with him, I believe it was 2004. 24:08 [SPEAKER_03]: I was asking him about Kathy and there were a couple of really crazy things. 24:12 [SPEAKER_03]: He said to me, including that he was doing that thing that I'm sorry to say, but criminals do, which is they deflect the attention over to somebody else. 24:22 [SPEAKER_03]: So he's like, oh well, ha ha isn't it kind of funny? 24:27 [SPEAKER_03]: There was another man with the name Gerard who taught at the school just to mile over up the hill and ha ha and I'm thinking to myself, 24:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Ha ha, I remember this person. 24:37 [SPEAKER_03]: She was wonderful. 24:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And Ha ha, about a similar name. 24:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that just is all kinds of red flaggy for me. 24:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, so I can tell you, broad copy to the house twice the summer before she went missing. 24:54 [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, from my Catholic school 25:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, oh, a part of me, Mr. 25:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Priest, man, that's called a livo mission in the Catholic realm. 25:10 [SPEAKER_03]: When, oh, wow, that would have been important to mention. 25:13 [SPEAKER_03]: You were such good friends, soulmates, that you brought her for a couple road trips to Pennsylvania, okay? 25:21 [SPEAKER_03]: So that livo mission. 25:22 [SPEAKER_03]: major lie of omission, if you ask me, not to start pointing fingers at a culprit, but I know the sin fluency had on me. 25:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Ronnie shares with us, a memory she has, talking about Kathy with her late brother Joe. 25:41 [SPEAKER_03]: The four Joe died, even though he was literally dying, he took the time and watched the heat burst. 25:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And the first thing he said was, I always thought that guy was 25:51 [SPEAKER_03]: right away, he said to me said, I remember riding in the car. 25:54 [SPEAKER_03]: And I said, me too. 25:56 [SPEAKER_03]: He said the maverick and I said, yeah, me too. 25:59 [SPEAKER_03]: And now what's really funny is the word maverick, all through my life has always had this funny, like it was just like, I think when I was a kid and she had this car called the maverick, always always into words. 26:11 [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought maverick, that's just kind of a cool word. 26:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And so all through my life, like the word maverick has popped up here and there. 26:17 [SPEAKER_03]: But Joe and I wrote in the maverick, and he said, I remember the plaid seats in the back and I said, me too. 26:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And in my recollection, Jerry borrowed me in my brother to use his stunt chills, right? 26:29 [SPEAKER_03]: He took us on a short little field trip with sister Kathy. 26:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I think in gendering that lovey, Javi, let's get married. 26:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Look, we can have a little family. 26:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Look at us with these little kids. 26:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of idea in her. 26:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm convinced he manipulated her, not fully. 26:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And by the way, 26:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I have it on really good account other than my own memory, Kathy was not the only none that Jerry Koo brought to our family's home for a weekend. 26:57 [SPEAKER_03]: And one of them I specifically remember who wasn't as straight-laced, I'll say, as Kath. 27:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I was just really like kind of 27:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Anxiously suspicious of what I didn't know. 27:08 [SPEAKER_03]: She was a little too sexual or something. 27:11 [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, she's not acting like a nun. 27:13 [SPEAKER_03]: And she was there hanging out with Jerry. 27:15 [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know what that was about, but there you have that bit of intro. 27:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so yeah, we wrote in the car. 27:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Joe said he remembered sitting at the dinner table for meals with Kathy. 27:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I do remember like a physical thing where maybe we were sitting out in the back yard. 27:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And then I was not on her lap, but almost as a shield between her and Jerry. 27:40 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a very weird memory I have and my brother's comment about half was that he felt she was out of her integrity. 27:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, that's such a heavy thing to say except that my brother, like I said, was he knew he was dying. 27:56 [SPEAKER_03]: He's on his way out. 27:57 [SPEAKER_03]: And I really feel that people in that state have a start getting a whole bunch of clarity about that. 28:03 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's what his remark was out of her integrity. 28:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm here to say that that's how I feel that Jerry's unfortunate influence on me has created a bit something about that in myself. 28:16 [SPEAKER_04]: tell us about the experience that you had when he came to visit your home. 28:23 [SPEAKER_04]: I believe you said you were 12. 28:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, I have to really hand it to Justin Fenton and Julie Sharber. 28:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I really appreciate the hard work they put in on that article. 28:36 [SPEAKER_03]: And obviously, they can't tell my whole story, but I can't tell you guys. 28:40 [SPEAKER_03]: So Christmas 1974, he was a regular visitor for the holidays, you know, he'd pop in on people's kids' birthday, you know, it just depended on one of seven kids. 28:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Mine is my dear older brother who departed three years ago a couple of weeks ago. 28:59 [SPEAKER_03]: I was 12 and a half and you get your first bra, you get your first hand held hair dryer. 29:05 [SPEAKER_03]: So I got a hair dryer from Santa and because I'm the oldest daughter, I was always first in life to help my mom get the dinner to get, you know, we all got together and got things ready, but I would often wait to take my shower until just before guests were arriving or right before dinner, even just because there was no time otherwise, et cetera. 29:27 [SPEAKER_03]: So, but here and so I'm going to go take my shower and I just kind of was feeling like, wow, I'm going to get to use my hair dryer, but 29:37 [SPEAKER_03]: If anyone else there will recall, you can you watch the guy at the hairdresser do it, but he gets to use two hands and he's doing it on someone else's head. 29:45 [SPEAKER_03]: But when you have to try to learn how to do it yourself initially, it's very weird. 29:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if I said this out loud, but next thing you know, oh, who should volunteer to help me 30:05 [SPEAKER_03]: in my family home, and then were you in the bathroom? 30:08 [SPEAKER_03]: No, yeah, yeah, no, I took the shower. 30:11 [SPEAKER_03]: came out freshly showered with my robe on and I probably had towel in my head and he was waiting for me with the hairdryer in my bedroom that I shared with my two sisters who have my persuading for you. 30:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah well yeah because it was just part of like okay I'll help you so yeah he was waiting for me and then so I sat down there at the vanity we had this cute little set with the mirror and he started drying my hair 30:37 [SPEAKER_03]: And over my eye, and asking me, whether he had ever told me about my sexy favorite movie star, Veronica Lee, as he's blowing more hot air in my ear and wherever. 30:55 [SPEAKER_03]: My parents never said the word sexy in our house. 30:58 [SPEAKER_03]: So to even hear this priest friend of my mother who has essentially helped raise me, 31:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Basically call me sexy Veronica, you know, it's like sexy Veronica Lake and using my baptismal name while he's doing that. 31:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I find it really disgusting. 31:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Now I will say that. 31:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I had put that incident out of my mind because what happened next and this is trying to lean on the fact I saved myself. 31:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I felt like a very odd sensation while he's saying all this and fixing my hair with the hair dryer and saying sexy Veronica. 31:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And I felt and unusually odd feeling below my waist. 31:44 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, I don't know what this is. 31:46 [SPEAKER_03]: He was not touching me, but he was seducing me. 31:49 [SPEAKER_03]: There's no other word to use. 31:51 [SPEAKER_03]: He's seducing a 12.5 year old girl. 31:55 [SPEAKER_03]: So I quickly excuse myself, I politely as politely as I could without showing the fear, I excuse myself, I have to go to the bathroom real quick or something. 32:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And I locked myself in the bathroom where I just taken the jar for too long. 32:11 [SPEAKER_03]: I made sure I just was like waiting and waiting and then I waited extra time and then I waited some more extra time so that I was certain he would have taken his leave of my bedroom so I could get dressed. 32:24 [SPEAKER_03]: And I went, I got dressed and went down to Christmas dinner and said nothing about it. 32:29 [SPEAKER_03]: But here's the thing about my confirmation name. 32:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I so revered or it slash had been groomed by Jerry Cube that I had decided by the time a Christmas cake come around, we were already part way into our confirmation lessons. 32:44 [SPEAKER_03]: I was in public school, but I attended a couple days a week or whatever the drill was at St. Genevieve, so with my brother's class as well, and the confirmation lessons. 32:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And I had decided, because that is a Tom Boy, and we had a lot of Tom's and Joe's already in their family, I took the name Gerard for my confirmation name. 33:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And then he abused me with the Harajar's sexy situation and just left me like what do I do with that if I tease mom's friend, why would he like and did he really do anything well, that's what he was making a play for it. 33:21 [SPEAKER_03]: He's making a play and I saved myself if I hadn't walked out who knows what it would have happened, but the fact here it is. 33:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Justin Fenton was so cool after they visited Jerry and New Jersey while they were working on that article. 33:37 [SPEAKER_03]: He'd found me and he said, we were in New Jersey yesterday. 33:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I need to ask you promise. 33:46 [SPEAKER_03]: No matter how outraged you might be when I tell you what he said, do not contact him. 33:53 [SPEAKER_03]: I said, don't worry. 33:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I will not. 33:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And I did find it rather outrageous this man who came in when as he pleased in my family home and it known my father for however long used my deceased father as his alibi for his abusive me he put rather than saying that he didn't do that he said my father was in the room my father died in July 2017. 34:23 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what a great friend Jerry Kube was to my father. 34:27 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I'm kind of outraged about that. 34:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so he claimed that your dad was in your bedroom when he was drawing my hair and telling me about sexy Veronica Lake who by the way in all of my research, I've done the past six and a half years Veronica Lake was abused by a priest friend of her mother is when she was 12 years old. 34:49 [SPEAKER_03]: How about that? 34:51 [SPEAKER_03]: And she was a weather person in Baltimore in the like 64 1964 the winter of Jared seen his sexy favorite movie star on the weather. 35:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm going to pay what a psycho. 35:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Besides your father being in the room, are there other things that okay, I remember you told me that at one point and I believe this is in the article that you talked to him about a relationship with somebody and he said right yeah that's the interesting thing as far as like the quote chain of events Jericho is abusive me and by the way, let me just say this. 35:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I understand that I was not physically assaulted, put it all, but that is physical and heresyxy. 35:55 [SPEAKER_03]: you can find the photo on mine of Robert Guley, brushing Julie Andrews here during Camelott, which is where the song, if I ever leave you, comes from. 36:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Go look at that. 36:07 [SPEAKER_03]: And Robert Guley, of course, was shining it on with Julie Andrews behind Richard Burton, the King's back. 36:13 [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, so here is sexual, and he was doing that, but I'm just gonna say, so many people have suffered so much worse than I had, so much worse. 36:23 [SPEAKER_03]: So I just need to really recognize that. 36:27 [SPEAKER_03]: The reason I just said that thing about the physical thing is because there's this, you know, and how are you abused? 36:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Emotionally, psychologically, spiritually, sexually, physically, but spiritual and emotional abuse. 36:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know whether you guys have discussed this term, 36:54 [SPEAKER_03]: This is what we are talking about, which makes the sexual abuse by priests on children and women and men in their own sheep moral injury. 37:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I propose right now we should start our own truth and reconciliation commission. 37:15 [SPEAKER_03]: We need to have a truth and reconciliation commission like the ANC did and have the priest sit right there and let the kids who are now 50 or however old we are, speak directly to any of them who are still alive and they should sit there and take it. 37:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, just like they made us sit there and take it. 37:41 [SPEAKER_03]: about the other moral injury this person did to me and the hell it caused for me. 37:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I worked for the Philadelphia Philly as my hometown team when I was a younger person. 37:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And Mr. Cube is a huge Philly fan. 37:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, there I was working for the team. 38:01 [SPEAKER_03]: I had worked during college and then I got hired full time. 38:05 [SPEAKER_03]: It was really fun. 38:06 [SPEAKER_03]: I was very psyched about it and 38:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Roki says he's still married, but he's getting divorced. 38:15 [SPEAKER_03]: So I sort of tread lightly into this situation. 38:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And then little behold, it's Christmas time again. 38:21 [SPEAKER_03]: And Jerry's visiting, and I consult with him because I trusted him so much. 38:29 [SPEAKER_03]: And he was such a good friend of the family. 38:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And he was our family priest. 38:33 [SPEAKER_03]: By trusted Jerry implicitly. 38:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And I decided, you know, and I really was thinking, I held my virginity through college, okay? 38:41 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I'd held tightly to trying to be a good Catholic girl, but then I get involved with the fillies and I go and I'm seeing this rookie and I'm like, there's Jerry I'll ask Jerry. 38:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I really didn't want to sleep with the baseball player, but I was like, ah, you know, how long we're going to wait anyway. 38:57 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought that Jerry would give me good advice like I really when it was was I wanted him to say no I wanted him to say no don't I wanted to have a different excuse so it's someone else it's hard to explain but I swear to you 39:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, then yeah, go ahead. 39:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and I, oh, and I had told him that the guy was still married, but getting divorced. 39:29 [SPEAKER_03]: And I obviously wasn't married to the guy. 39:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, yeah, go ahead and let me know how it goes. 39:39 [SPEAKER_03]: And let me know how it goes. 39:41 [SPEAKER_03]: He was pretty much saying, like, go for it. 39:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and check back with me, because on the pervert, I've talked to a number of people about this since people who are close to me. 39:49 [SPEAKER_03]: And they've said, you know, my aunt's, if you had come to me, I would have said, if you were hesitant, the answer's no. 39:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And she knew what my mother's values for me were. 40:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I knew. 40:02 [SPEAKER_03]: So that was really, very confusing for me to get the guy head from him. 40:06 [SPEAKER_03]: So then I had to hazard that, trying to on my own, and I think the little work confusion, even. 40:10 [SPEAKER_03]: I did go ahead and I'm sorry to tell you, and it was a major point of sadness, but I kind of worked it out in the book a little bit. 40:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I made a very difficult personal choice, and I had an abortion, and it scarred me, and it changed me, and I stand by my decision. 40:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I stand by my decision. 40:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you tired of speculative, sensational, poorly researched, and disrespectful true crime podcasts? 40:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Me too. 40:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm Eric Carter-Londine and I'm here to introduce you to True Consequences Podcast, an advocacy book is show that sets itself apart from the rest. 40:56 [SPEAKER_00]: You see true consequences as a love letter from my baby brother, Jacob Londine, who was murdered nearly four decades ago, and he still needs justice. 41:05 [SPEAKER_00]: What sets my show apart is the deep dive research I do, the first person accounts I bring to light, and the empathetic lens through which I approach each case. 41:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I know what it's like to fight for justice for a loved one, and I'm committed to helping other families seeking justice. 41:19 [SPEAKER_00]: You can listen to true consequences wherever you get your favorite podcast, join me, Eric Carter Londyne, on this journey to uncover the truth, and advocate for justice. 41:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Together, we can make a difference. 41:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't settle for sensationalism, choose true consequences podcast for advocacy focused true crime, subscribe now and be part of the movement for justice. 41:47 [SPEAKER_04]: When was the last time you ever saw him in person? 41:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And my second part of that question is when did you sort of start coming around to 41:57 [SPEAKER_03]: What had happened in retrospect as soon as I saw him on the keepers really tell me about well okay I'll tell you so in 2005 I believe in October 2005. 42:11 [SPEAKER_03]: was when Lynne Abraham, the then DA of Philadelphia, the first report about the creepy priest dropped in Philly, okay? 42:21 [SPEAKER_03]: When that report dropped, I too was really pissed off and I was just like, oh my God, look at this, this is fickening, it's like roast. 42:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And yet I wondered why was I so angry? 42:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And then, 42:34 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I've written this piece about it and that's actually what that was the piece where by the end of that is where I came up with they have to do a truth of reconciliation commission if they're going to be taken seriously about curing this crap in the church. 42:47 [SPEAKER_03]: That at the end of that piece is where I came up with fast forward and watching the keepers and there he was Mr big man on campus Bragging about how he saved some eucharist for Kathy and let me tell you he used to say mass in our living room on any Sunday he was in town That was the one thing all of us kids were like, yeah, we don't have to get dressed up and drag ourselves up to church. 43:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, as soon as I watch 10 and saw his whole demeanor. 43:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I finally, I got it, I got it. 43:20 [SPEAKER_03]: And the reason why I never thought anything quote of a kid to me is because he didn't actually molest me in that way. 43:29 [SPEAKER_03]: But he abused me a lot. 43:33 [SPEAKER_03]: He used to play like games. 43:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, my mother knows about this. 43:37 [SPEAKER_03]: She did say, yeah, I know he used to play these silly games with the kids and I'm like silly games. 43:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's one. 43:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Interestingly, George Harrison had a popular song out at the time. 43:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Me, my mind or something, but Cube, I didn't even know it was a song at the time. 43:53 [SPEAKER_03]: But he played this game where, you know, oh, we would talk about something. 43:57 [SPEAKER_03]: He'd get, try to engage me in conversation or meet me, talk to him. 44:00 [SPEAKER_03]: But I wasn't allowed to use I, me or mine. 44:03 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'd start, he'd say, oh, what did you do yesterday? 44:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'd start saying, well, my mom and I, oh, you can't say mine. 44:09 [SPEAKER_03]: And then I said to my mom recently, 44:12 [SPEAKER_03]: gross and crazy is it that I couldn't blame her as my mom with this crazy game. 44:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, my mom, she's my mom. 44:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't say my, I mean, what the hell is that? 44:25 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just whackiness. 44:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Ronnie, when he came to visit you with Kathy, did they sleep in the same bedroom? 44:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no. 44:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh no, that was all wholesome. 44:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah, except, you know, once us kids were in bed or my parents were in bed, he could have taken her down into our play room. 44:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I did read some things online that said some people think that maybe she had an abortion. 44:51 [SPEAKER_03]: When he said the thing in the article that they tried to have sex, that's a rumor. 44:54 [SPEAKER_03]: He said he had kidney problems and that same article, right? 44:58 [SPEAKER_03]: And I noticed that someone who had been a student 45:04 [SPEAKER_04]: noted that she had been ill in the beginning of school or what have you I can clarify that the spring before that when I was a junior right before Kathy left heo she was out for several weeks. 45:19 [SPEAKER_04]: And she was in the hospital with kidney stones. 45:23 [SPEAKER_04]: So we know that she was all from that. 45:26 [SPEAKER_04]: She was at the hospital right across from K. Oh, I think some girls went over and visit her, so that was that, but I've looked at the autopsy. 45:34 [SPEAKER_04]: There was no pregnancy. 45:36 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't believe she wrote that letter. 45:39 [SPEAKER_04]: because if she did and talked about her period finally came, the letter was written like super early on Monday morning of a day that she would have had to go to school. 45:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Kathy is not the type to start a letter that would take three hours to write at 12 30 AM on a school day. 45:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I had it analyzed by a proof-aller from Scotland Yard who analyzes content, not handwriting. 46:05 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not typed as he claims. 46:08 [SPEAKER_04]: It's handwritten and it's not her handwriting, but it's the content that I had analyzed. 46:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And that proof-aller who doesn't look coffee, but knows the story said she doesn't believe Kathy wrote it. 46:20 [SPEAKER_04]: I believe he wrote it to cover himself. 46:28 [SPEAKER_04]: And I've looked at a lot of the profiler explained to me with the punctuation and the grammar and the parentheses that there are certain phrases that are in parentheses, that would be what he would like her to be saying, not what she actually would say. 46:48 [SPEAKER_04]: And I take, she with the letter saying, she wants to iron his clothes and cook for him, 46:55 [SPEAKER_04]: which Ronnie would be like, you or I say, I don't have time iron your own search. 47:03 [SPEAKER_04]: She was, that was not Kathy. 47:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, she'd be like, do it yourself, dude. 47:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I do believe that he wrote it or had somebody write it for him. 47:12 [SPEAKER_04]: They sent him pictures of the original. 47:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And he said, well, that's curious to me, too. 47:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's always say, but it wasn't typed. 47:21 [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, 47:23 [SPEAKER_03]: He's so not curious. 47:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there was no pregnancy. 47:26 [SPEAKER_04]: No pregnancy. 47:27 [SPEAKER_04]: And even though she was found two months later, her internal organs were intact. 47:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Only where they would be open to the elements and animals were they not intact right but for example, her uterus was intact and there was no sign of either mentees or pregnancy and that is in the autopsy. 47:55 [SPEAKER_03]: I know it's awful to talk about it, but people need to know I almost feel like I should apologize that I'd brought that I was just doing it because. 48:04 [SPEAKER_03]: That's emotive if you don't want someone to have a baby. 48:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think, my reason thing is that she found out about the allegations. 48:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 48:16 [SPEAKER_04]: It's confronted him. 48:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And that was it I believe that too that she said he said you can't say anything and she said I'm going to yeah yeah so regarding the autopsy though if I can say this when was it actually quote made public or did Pete no no talk she is not I have refused to publish it but I was given a copy of it by her family and 48:43 [SPEAKER_04]: They did not share with anybody else. 48:46 [SPEAKER_04]: But somebody got a whole of it who I believe was deceitful and playing a role with all of us. 48:54 [SPEAKER_04]: He had it copied and distributed widely. 48:58 [SPEAKER_03]: The reason I'm asking is because in that same conversation I had mentioned earlier, which is the last time I talked to that guy. 49:06 [SPEAKER_03]: I believe 2004 he decides chuckling over a similar name of somebody else. 49:13 [SPEAKER_03]: This is another thing he said to me and I'm like how would he have known this? 49:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Because he said well, I believe he said the autopsy report and he said that there was strangulation 49:30 [SPEAKER_03]: then he also mentioned the wound behind her, you know, where she'd been hit in the head. 49:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And when he mentioned the hit in the head, what he said was, the whole was about the size of a signet ring, like one of Bishopwoodware. 49:44 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll never forget that he said that to me. 49:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought, that is so specific. 49:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And why would he even think that or say that? 49:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Or, but the thing about the strangulation, I have to say no. 49:55 [SPEAKER_03]: that is a very personal crime and it's to shut someone up. 50:01 [SPEAKER_03]: It is literally an act of silencing someone so that they cannot speak. 50:08 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that there's in the movie three days of the condor at the very end. 50:14 [SPEAKER_03]: He says, well, you're never going to know when people are going to come to get you. 50:17 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's going to be a friend of yours pulling up in a car offering your ride somewhere that's what I think happened when they said that someone pulls into the parking lot and also when they say about the similar cars Jerry had a car that was the exact same color as the Maverick. 50:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Rodding, what were the reactions towards you after the article came out? 50:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Like from your neighbors, from your family, from... 50:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just very grateful. 50:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm one friend and she knows Jerry too. 50:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Like we were close enough like she was around enough and she was right there for me. 50:53 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm very lucky and you know I have a handful of really good friends. 50:57 [SPEAKER_03]: I will say that I'm also grateful some of my relatives have been there for me since the beginning and some others have come around. 51:08 [SPEAKER_03]: still waiting on others. 51:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Sadly, a couple of my siblings, you know, whatever the opposite of it supportive is, they actually just kind of made a joke about it to me. 51:19 [SPEAKER_03]: It was really hurtful. 51:21 [SPEAKER_03]: And I've been very angry about that and I understand, you know, anger isn't anything, it's not nice. 51:27 [SPEAKER_03]: No one likes to be around anger. 51:29 [SPEAKER_03]: But this is a very angering situation. 51:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I wonder why they're not 51:36 [SPEAKER_03]: But I understand this is not untypical and that, you know, obviously speaks to diagrams, the parents first. 51:44 [SPEAKER_03]: So I could tell a little story about that that my mom shared with me recently when I expected what I would consider Jerry's grooming of my mother. 51:52 [SPEAKER_03]: So I, as I mentioned earlier about their being quote, best friends and say it's great or from eighth grade or however he's just say it. 52:02 [SPEAKER_03]: When I said this to her a few weeks ago on the phone I said oh so you guys because we've been gently exploring this topic and I said oh so you guys were best friends and say great no not best friends and I was very shocked to hear this and I said that's what he always said it's just what I always believed and she said no there were 26 of us in the class 13 girls 13 boys. 52:26 [SPEAKER_03]: And when you have such a small class as you get older in your out of school and it was an eighth grade class and in Catholic school, that's your type. 52:33 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's sort of like a graduating class, a big deal. 52:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And yet close to her later, but she said, they were not close in school. 52:39 [SPEAKER_03]: They became close to her friends when he, quote, started coming around. 52:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And she said that she remembers having my brother Tom on her hip the first time he showed up at our past. 52:55 [SPEAKER_03]: So that would have been fall of 1966 or something somewhere in there. 53:00 [SPEAKER_03]: So no, not best friends. 53:01 [SPEAKER_03]: And then so she says to me in the same conversation, she said, well, when they were in school, St. Dorothy's is the name of the parish, they attended eighth grade, and it's in Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania, and a mom lived very up the hill, steel road. 53:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Jerry lived on Annabel Avenue in Havretown, a little further away, so she's telling me the story. 53:30 [SPEAKER_03]: He told me he used to purposely ride out of his way to ride by my house. 53:35 [SPEAKER_03]: He ride up by on steel road. 53:37 [SPEAKER_03]: And I said, oh, I said, mom, why would he have told you that? 53:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Or I mentioned that? 53:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I don't know if he might catch a glimpse of me walking to school or he's riding by my house. 53:49 [SPEAKER_03]: And I played a little dumb. 53:50 [SPEAKER_03]: And I said, you know, mom, it sounds like he was crushing on you. 53:54 [SPEAKER_03]: And she goes, well, that's what he told me. 53:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, that's what he told me. 54:00 [SPEAKER_03]: So she's realizing she's been told something, but now she's realizing that it's only what she was told, not really what was true. 54:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So as far as his having a crush on her, she's the lovely woman and he would blame anyone for having a crush on my mom. 54:17 [SPEAKER_03]: So that wasn't what was in doubt. 54:19 [SPEAKER_03]: What was in doubt was when did he tell you this mom, 54:24 [SPEAKER_03]: after Kathy died. 54:25 [SPEAKER_03]: In order to, as I feel he did with me, because he knew how much I cared for Kathy and we'd connect and when she visited, enjoying me and mourning her, and then enjoying my mom and so kind of 54:38 [SPEAKER_03]: inappropriate flattery crap. 54:41 [SPEAKER_03]: I really, I do want to say that. 54:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like Kathy died. 54:44 [SPEAKER_03]: He didn't want me to worry about that or ask or whatever, and he just kind of went, oh, near my new best friend or whatever, and because I was the cute little girl who helped cheer up all of my aunts and uncles and my grandma died, I became that for him too, or tried or 55:08 [SPEAKER_02]: When you first would have met Jerry, what was he like like, how would you describe him? 55:15 [SPEAKER_03]: The first time I think he was around me, I was about 13 months old, so it's hard, you know, I can't even, I can't even really speak to that. 55:24 [SPEAKER_02]: How about how would you describe him before Kathy died? 55:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, like it's one of those things where he was kind of like another uncle, but we never called him Uncle Jerry, although we called really a bit old friends in my dad on the way out on the dick, but never called him Uncle Jerry. 55:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Nope. 55:44 [SPEAKER_03]: And he was not obviously not a real uncle, but that's how much he was around in kind of part of our family. 55:49 [SPEAKER_03]: I will say and it was really hard that until no kidding Shane just a little over two months ago that my mom finally came around. 56:03 [SPEAKER_03]: to see the truth in this. 56:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And I know that it had to have been very, very difficult for her, because she trusted him. 56:10 [SPEAKER_03]: As we all did, we trusted him implicitly. 56:12 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's really hard for a woman of over 80 to have to face that and try to reconcile that. 56:19 [SPEAKER_03]: So I have a lot of compassion from my mom on that front as angry as I've been for her not being there for me. 56:26 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's in, we're now 56:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember maybe what his personality was when he was around before Kathy. 56:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I can speak to like his demeanor and his own yeah, okay. 56:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I will speak of one friend, I just closed to and the first thing he said was, Jerry, always the smartest guy in the room. 56:53 [SPEAKER_03]: When he could give you a look, if you didn't like what you said to let you know how dumb you were and how wrong you were and that now, okay, so yeah one of those shit don't stink people. 57:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Come on, honestly. 57:12 [SPEAKER_03]: He has changed his story about his relationship with Kathy at least five times between the keepers and now. 57:19 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I personally was very shocked to see that he admitted he tried to have sex with her in that article. 57:26 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I agree with you. 57:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even know except that it was more abuse as I do feel that he's using my dad as his alibi. 57:34 [SPEAKER_03]: That was abusing me more super gas lady. 57:37 [SPEAKER_03]: trying to create doubt in my mind about what really happened? 57:41 [SPEAKER_03]: No way, fella. 57:43 [SPEAKER_03]: And just for the record, my mom is repeated to me many times since then. 57:46 [SPEAKER_03]: That is crazy. 57:49 [SPEAKER_03]: That is crazy. 57:51 [SPEAKER_03]: So if that's what it took to get my mom to believe me, well, okay, but my father has been gone now. 57:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said for six and he died 10 weeks after the keeper there. 58:02 [SPEAKER_03]: And the fact that he would use my dad as 58:05 [SPEAKER_03]: get out of jail free card or whatever you want to call it. 58:09 [SPEAKER_03]: So disgusting. 58:10 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what's disgusting. 58:11 [SPEAKER_03]: And yes, when he used the words, you know, disgusting or Jamma, what was the, the other word that you said earlier, Paulson, he says this is if he had nothing to do with the fact that the letter had been written. 58:24 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's insane. 58:25 [SPEAKER_03]: That's just totally psychopathic bullshit. 58:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's some crazy talk. 58:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll tell you, it is disgusting. 58:34 [SPEAKER_02]: And then after Kathy died in 1969, did you notice a change in Jerry at all or was he still the same Jerry that you remembered? 58:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Prior to that. 58:47 [SPEAKER_03]: The change might have been like, then he drew me closer, but as far as his own personality now, I just remembered something else, I really wanted to mention because it's one of the pieces of evidence, if you will. 59:01 [SPEAKER_03]: There's been a lot of talk about the cigarette, 59:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Jerry Cube smoked cigarettes and then this is the one chain chain that I will say that I did notice thanks. 59:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so glad this actually is it. 59:15 [SPEAKER_03]: This is the answer. 59:18 [SPEAKER_03]: He ends it up next thing you know, he shows up at our house and he has a bag of tobacco and a pipe and the name that's back 59:34 [SPEAKER_03]: filling the pipe, emptying the pipe. 59:37 [SPEAKER_03]: So now he's a pipe smoker. 59:41 [SPEAKER_03]: So now with a nod to McGree, this is not a pipe. 59:47 [SPEAKER_03]: This was a cigarette, now it's a pipe. 59:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I find that a little sus. 59:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, a cigarette that was found was actually the one that was found in the car. 60:01 [SPEAKER_04]: That was continued to crime scene. 60:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Right. 60:04 [SPEAKER_04]: And maskables DNA profile was taken right. 60:08 [SPEAKER_04]: But did not match anybody that they had DNA for at the time, right? 60:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if he has ever been collected, right? 60:17 [SPEAKER_04]: I know that Edgar Davidson's wise. 60:20 [SPEAKER_04]: I know that Billy Schmidt. 60:22 [SPEAKER_04]: was I don't know about James Canal, but I always thought it was a red herring, you know, like somebody threw it in there just to send everybody in the road direction. 60:33 [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm just saying, Jerry is a smoker and that thing about getting in a car with someone you know, because you think it's safe or you wanted to get together, you know, whatever that was. 60:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure. 60:44 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, in my mind, I'm like, I'm thinking, oh, well, maybe Jerry was in the back seat and that's maybe when he could put his hands around her neck. 60:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe not, you know, and cut on the front of her neck eight of them that were not 61:00 [SPEAKER_04]: fatal, but would be typical of if somebody was behind you holding something against your neck. 61:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Not if, yeah, yeah. 61:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And so there might have been someone in the back. 61:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe he was driving and I think so and someone else is in the back seat. 61:17 [SPEAKER_03]: But I wrote in that car and let me tell you that to watch the program and look at all that and go fully molly. 61:24 [SPEAKER_03]: it's just been kind of heavy. 61:26 [SPEAKER_03]: And I have to say, Jean is just a hero. 61:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I hope to meet Teresa Lancaster one of these days as well. 61:34 [SPEAKER_03]: I just got blessed her. 61:35 [SPEAKER_03]: She went to law school and shout out Wilson. 61:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And he was like Marylander of the year or something, right? 61:40 [SPEAKER_03]: That's fresh news. 61:41 [SPEAKER_03]: So good for him. 61:43 [SPEAKER_03]: You may see too Wilson. 61:45 [SPEAKER_03]: I wrote something about this. 61:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I wonder if I could read it. 61:50 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not too long. 61:52 [SPEAKER_03]: but it's about the lying. 61:54 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just my feelings about the lying and my experience. 61:59 [SPEAKER_03]: If I may, easy rider, easy liar by Ronnie Norpell. 62:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Jerry Kibbs performance on the Keepers was a revelation who was my mother's friend in their eighth grade year and he had access to me from the time I was 13 months old when my mom was grieving my grandmother's death. 62:22 [SPEAKER_03]: to realize as I watched that guy showing off on the program that he had groomed me throughout my childhood, chilled me to the bone. 62:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Kube perpetrated two life-rattling incidents of a sexual nature on me. 62:34 [SPEAKER_03]: I had trusted him with my life implicitly. 62:37 [SPEAKER_03]: To realize further how he had enjoyed me in his morning of sister Kathy Césnick but a sickening spiritual twist on his predation. 62:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I support all survivors of the Kyoto devastation on beyond. 62:50 [SPEAKER_03]: We Catholics are schools to distinguish between types of lies. 62:55 [SPEAKER_03]: They're a lies of co-mission and lies of omission. 63:00 [SPEAKER_03]: That's how strictly our truth telling is the least. 63:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Jericho is an established liar for my information. 63:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Contrary to his never saw him again presentation in the keepers could not only saw Pete McCain again after Kathy's murder, he brought Pete McCain to my family home and fill it up to suburbs more than a few times in the 70s, Pete McCain was an awesome dude and I remember him fondly, RIP, dear Pete, next, take a letter to you, Maria. 63:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Besides, Cube's live commission stands a gaping live omission. 63:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Cube forgot to mention in the keepers his having broad sister Kathy to my family home for two weekend visits in the summer of 1969. 63:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I vividly remember Kathy in my child heart. 63:52 [SPEAKER_03]: I was seven years old and studying for my first telecommunion and it was so special that there was this cool none that my mom's friend Jerry had brought up from Maryland within and she talked to me about loving Jesus and how special it would be when I received my first telecommunion. 64:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Kathy was supposed to come back to Philadelphia to celebrate with me. 64:09 [SPEAKER_03]: I had invited her. 64:11 [SPEAKER_03]: I received my first telecommunion on November 8, 1969. 64:16 [SPEAKER_03]: RIP Dear Kathy. 64:19 [SPEAKER_03]: you guys know kidding like that's the really weird thing about it is I wonder you know about the shopping trip and buying whatever you know and I guess if that she told the girl is letting get her sister but they were supposed to come to Vanya next day for my community didn't happen. 64:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Before we close I feel like I run the show. 64:44 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't change those. 64:48 [SPEAKER_04]: It's 64:49 [SPEAKER_04]: I have two requests, what would you like to say to him, first of all, what's the other one? 65:00 [SPEAKER_04]: What would you like to say to anybody who is in the same position you're in as far as being a survivor of abuse and has not come forward? 65:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'll answer the second one first, which is that with James permission, we'll put some contact information for me with the program info, so that if anyone wants to reach out to me personally, they can do that, and especially anyone else who had an unfortunate incident with Gerard J ex Jesuit to please. 65:40 [SPEAKER_03]: This has been it's just unbelievable, but I do feel that the more people who come forward and speak out, that it might create a little more urgency. 65:53 [SPEAKER_03]: In re-examining and looking again at the situation, I do believe that Jerry had feelings for Kathy, I guess some sort, but I don't think they were 100% since fear. 66:08 [SPEAKER_03]: And again, I'll just repeat, sorry to let you know, but she wasn't the only nun that he brought to my home. 66:15 [SPEAKER_03]: What do you want to say to him? 66:17 [SPEAKER_03]: That he should get in touch with Gemma if he's interested in this truth and reconciliation idea. 66:23 [SPEAKER_03]: And he can be the first guy in line and I will be the first person to speak to him. 66:36 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching.
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