0:07 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you very much. 0:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, guys, welcome back to foul play. 0:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Gemma and I were joined here with Mike again. 0:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Mike, we're going to hand the Mike over to you. 0:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Literally, Mike, we're going to be giving you the Mike. 0:42 [SPEAKER_01]: She did. 0:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm back with James. 0:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead. 0:45 [SPEAKER_01]: All of it you jump in now. 0:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks. 0:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Shane and Gemma. 0:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate being back on your podcast. 0:51 [SPEAKER_02]: It's been really informative and interesting. 0:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And I really appreciate the opportunity to work with you, guys. 0:57 [SPEAKER_02]: going to go over episode seven right off the bat is not as much as a lot of the other episodes where there's a lot of stuff that we couldn't observe stuff it was pictures and all that stuff going on. 1:09 [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm going to do the best we can on the stuff I did pick up. 1:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to do timestamps just like we've done the other podcast. 1:16 [SPEAKER_02]: So we'll start right off at episode seven at six minutes and 30 seconds. 1:22 [SPEAKER_02]: The scene is Jerry and his reading Marilyn and some type of restaurant. 1:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it might have been a hotel restaurant. 1:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Coups wife states that it makes me cry to see you guys getting together again. 1:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Then she's shaking her head and no. 1:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Then covers her mouth when speaking. 1:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know 1:42 [SPEAKER_02]: what she knows or what to best hold or if anything, but it's kind of strange to see these deceptive cues on her. 1:49 [SPEAKER_02]: She's saying it's good to see you guys together while she's shaken or had no. 1:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's always decided deception. 1:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why she's doing that. 2:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously she wasn't asked a question or if she was, it was edited out or something to happen for editing. 2:07 [SPEAKER_02]: But if you 2:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Pube has a look of contempt on his face as he's looking at his wife speaking. 2:16 [SPEAKER_02]: His mouth is turned down, his eyes are narrow, squinting almost, and he's glaring as if he doesn't like what she's saying. 2:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And he's just looking at it with that micro facial called contempt. 2:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And he's not very happy with what she's telling the people that are around the table. 2:35 [SPEAKER_02]: That's my observation with her at 0700 coup takes the ring, Kathy's ring from Maryland. 2:43 [SPEAKER_02]: And he immediately grins and gets a fire off look of his face like he's living in the path. 2:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I've watched a lot of interrogation videos and a lot of people who are involved in crime or in murders. 2:57 [SPEAKER_02]: when they get a piece of evidence or a piece of a victim back in their hands, it really makes them happy. 3:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It gives them a sense of elation, a sense of joy, and they instantly stop thinking back whatever's going through their mind. 3:12 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's exactly what happens to Coo when he takes that ring. 3:16 [SPEAKER_02]: He gets this kind of sheepish grin 3:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And at 0730, while listening to Marilyn speak about how she didn't know any of this, about Kathy, who was stroking his lip area and his brow was far away. 3:41 [SPEAKER_02]: This is my opinion. 3:42 [SPEAKER_02]: He's thinking of what does she know or what could she possibly know? 3:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that's serious. 3:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Look on his face. 3:47 [SPEAKER_02]: What is she thinking? 3:49 [SPEAKER_02]: What could she find out? 3:50 [SPEAKER_02]: What does she know? 3:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Does she know something I don't? 3:52 [SPEAKER_02]: That's to look on his face when he's just stroking his lip area with the farong brow. 3:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And at 850, notice Marilyn has her hand on her face. 4:03 [SPEAKER_02]: And I just wanted to point this out. 4:05 [SPEAKER_02]: The difference with Marilyn and touching her face, she's not really touching it, her hand is still. 4:12 [SPEAKER_02]: So if anyone has the question, Marilyn was touching her face. 4:15 [SPEAKER_02]: No, when you have a hand on your face, leaning on your hand, it's totally different when it's moving. 4:22 [SPEAKER_02]: When you're moving your hand across your face, you're soothing yourself. 4:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Just that stroking of your face or any pot of your face here is soothing to you. 4:32 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's a way people relieve stress. 4:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas, too, his hand is stroking his mouth the area, which is a self soothing gesture, like I just said, he's feeling a little stress at that moment. 4:42 [SPEAKER_02]: But compare the two, he'll see what I mean. 4:45 [SPEAKER_02]: That's 0903. 4:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Notice the look on Coobs face. 4:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Where is he? 4:50 [SPEAKER_02]: What is he thinking? 4:52 [SPEAKER_02]: He's checked out. 4:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Coobs' wife is also soothing herself by rubbing and twisting the water bottle in her hands. 5:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Observe this scene, pause the keepers at this scene at 0903. 5:06 [SPEAKER_02]: All of them are in the scene at once, Marilyn Coobs' wife, Diane, and Trove himself. 5:12 [SPEAKER_02]: It is a very interesting scene to watch. 5:15 [SPEAKER_02]: from 902 until I think it's 909. 5:22 [SPEAKER_02]: He's checked out. 5:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's almost what's that? 5:25 [SPEAKER_02]: 78 seconds. 5:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Then he's looks like he's in another world. 5:29 [SPEAKER_02]: What does he think? 5:30 [SPEAKER_02]: He's not even engaged in the conversation. 5:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And he's just checked out. 5:34 [SPEAKER_02]: And you'll see that. 5:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Just pause that on your TV screen. 5:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And you can see that whole scene. 5:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And you can say to yourself, 5:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And at 1042, Coup states neither of us knew about the subuse stuff as part of the context until 1994. 5:55 [SPEAKER_02]: While he's saying this is Palm's turn up, he turns up as Palm's like, I didn't know anything about this. 6:01 [SPEAKER_02]: The Palm's turning up is the sign of open. 6:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to be open with you guys, and I'm telling the truth. 6:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know anything about it. 6:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Usually at the sign of theception, he's saying I have nothing to hide. 6:13 [SPEAKER_02]: And I just to go back to that thing. 6:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I just talked about the three things going on. 6:17 [SPEAKER_02]: And that scene was Marilyn Diane and the coup. 6:20 [SPEAKER_02]: If you watch, Marilyn's engaged. 6:23 [SPEAKER_02]: She's talking, her hands are moving. 6:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Diane's stress. 6:27 [SPEAKER_02]: She's got that water bottle in her lap. 6:29 [SPEAKER_02]: She's rubbing on it. 6:30 [SPEAKER_02]: She's ringing it. 6:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And she's stressed out about something. 6:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't know what it is. 6:34 [SPEAKER_02]: And like I said before, coup is checked out. 6:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm repeating myself, but it's very important to watch that. 6:40 [SPEAKER_02]: and see the different dynamic of that whole conversation. 6:43 [SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty interesting. 6:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so that's all I have on those scenes with Kube, Marilyn, and Kube's wife, Diane. 6:52 [SPEAKER_02]: You guys have any questions about any of that? 6:54 [SPEAKER_02]: They talked about, 6:56 [SPEAKER_02]: have a quick question. 6:57 [SPEAKER_02]: What would you mean by checked out if you look at who his eyes at downward and he's leaned back in his chair, he's not even listening, his face is blank, and he's got his wife next to him, he's got Marilyn actually talking with her hands moving and she's totally engaged, telling the story of whatever she's talking about, and he's just staring straight ahead at an angle, he's staring right at the table. 7:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And like, where is he for almost like each second, it's nine seconds, it's kind of crazy, he's kind of lost and thought. 7:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's interesting to watch. 7:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you think he would be making eye contact with any of the speakers in the world. 7:36 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just interesting to watch that. 7:38 [SPEAKER_03]: have a question about that, maybe you can clarify, is that indicative of somebody who's trying to think, okay, what does Marilyn know, what does Diane know, who knows what and what's safe for me to say or not say? 7:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Scream, bling, phone, anchor, like the seats, place to talk. 8:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think what true was during he's off somewhere thinking about Chathy thinking about the whole situation. 8:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And he is his mind's racing. 8:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And he's probably not even listening to Marilyn. 8:12 [SPEAKER_02]: He just has this hum often to the side. 8:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And he's just trying to go back in time. 8:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what he's doing, but the minute he saw that ring, he was like in that same space. 8:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I was there that night. 8:24 [SPEAKER_03]: It was at a hotel at the airport, which is where 8:31 [SPEAKER_03]: that evening. 8:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And pretty much the first thing he asked was, did you bring the ring? 8:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 8:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Almost the first thing. 8:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Also in the comment was made to Marilyn, I'll never forgive your family for the way that triad may run traffic died. 8:47 [SPEAKER_03]: This was like right off the bat, almost like she owed him the ring and apology, which she would not. 8:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was very interesting. 8:59 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was for once, I was quiet on the side of the list. 9:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It's worth it. 9:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I don't know what Coobs wife was really showing a lot of stress. 9:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if it's because of the situation, the cameras, or whatever. 9:13 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's interesting to watch. 9:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, the whole dynamic of that eating, the different impressions, the different party language. 9:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And you'll see what I mean when you really take a look at that, 9:25 [SPEAKER_00]: life can get overwhelming, and talking to someone can make all the difference. 9:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 9:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and as little as a couple of days, you can connect by message, phone or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 9:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, 9:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help include a journal for personal reflection and daily group sessions on a variety of topics and they accept HSA and FSA cards. 10:05 [SPEAKER_00]: with over 2,000,000 users, and a 4. star rating on trust pilot. 10:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Better help is a trusted platform for accessible mental health care. 10:15 [SPEAKER_00]: If you think you could benefit from therapy, visit betterhelp.com, choose our podcast during sign-up, and get 10% off your first month. 10:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Taking care of your mental health is a sign of strength. 10:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Start your journey today. 10:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we all had dinner together. 10:32 [SPEAKER_03]: It was interesting because the two women, Marilyn and Diane, of course, Marilyn is the most gracious person I've ever met. 10:41 [SPEAKER_03]: And Diane is very sweet, but they sat next to each other and spent so much time looking at pictures of each other's grandchildren. 10:51 [SPEAKER_03]: like a common bond for them, the right to boss from talking about other things, but that was something that I guess was important to both of them and they were both making an effort to reach out to the other woman that was my favorite one. 11:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, when one's in half hour. 11:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, just looking at the pictures. 11:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 11:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 11:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks. 11:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 11:14 [SPEAKER_02]: All right. 11:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Then there's a little bit on again. 11:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to move on to him's picked up a few more on him in the few clips he was in. 11:23 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to look at Edgar at 2449. 11:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And he was asked about driving with both feet. 11:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And when they asked him that, he immediately began touching his face area, has again, which is a soothing gesture, stress-doubt. 11:37 [SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't know what's going to come next. 11:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And he even said, you know, what does that have anything to do with anything? 11:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Something like that. 11:43 [SPEAKER_02]: What does that have to do with anything? 11:45 [SPEAKER_02]: And at 25 or 1, 11:47 [SPEAKER_02]: asked back in the day, did you drive with two feet? 11:50 [SPEAKER_02]: He's still touching his lips and gives a small exaggerated yon, which he'll see his mouth stop to open like he's going to yon and then he just then it just abruptly shuts. 12:01 [SPEAKER_02]: That's another stress indicate of him. 12:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting to watch. 12:06 [SPEAKER_02]: He's a textbook. 12:08 [SPEAKER_02]: He could actually be, and I think I've said this before, a training video for rep deception and stress indicators. 12:15 [SPEAKER_02]: This guy is just all over the place with his indicators, well, the verbally and non-verbal. 12:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Then he states, I had nothing to do with her disappearance or murder or anything. 12:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's one of our common things that's a denial flag. 12:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And I've explained this before on the prior broadcast at the denial flag. 12:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Same as saying, I did do it. 12:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I swear I didn't. 12:38 [SPEAKER_02]: You denies everything about a disappearance or murder or anything. 12:42 [SPEAKER_02]: The truth is, there's strong sign of deception. 12:44 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like saying, I swear to God, I didn't do it. 12:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I swear on a stack of bibles on my children, all that. 12:49 [SPEAKER_02]: When you have that strong denial, it's usually about the deception. 12:55 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I picked up from active. 12:57 [SPEAKER_02]: There wasn't much war on him, but that guy, in my opinion, was definitely involved in the whole murder and the whole staging and all that. 13:07 [SPEAKER_02]: That's just my opinion. 13:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's about all I have as far as indicators go on episode seven, but there's a few areas I'd like to touch on that kind of go back to episode six. 13:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to go over 13:23 [SPEAKER_02]: a few things about have heard and I've read things about what I do and who I work for and all that. 13:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of it, most of it isn't true. 13:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I would say all of it isn't true. 13:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Aside from my fetal training that I've been doing since 2008, I've had training 13:42 [SPEAKER_02]: in genistic interview and interrogation. 13:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I've had training in the retack leak of interview and interrogation. 13:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And all these courses I've taken, all this training is all this thing. 13:55 [SPEAKER_02]: This is a textbook case on all this stuff. 13:58 [SPEAKER_02]: interviewing people, picking out the behaviors, picking out all these different things. 14:02 [SPEAKER_02]: So those misconceptions about like job and what people are guessing I'm doing, of what I do, a totally wrong and just want to let people know that. 14:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm the one that does this job. 14:14 [SPEAKER_02]: No one really knew about this Netflix series that I worked with, show I brought it up in our office one day. 14:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And I showed especially, Chanel, I showed Adga, I showed Sharon May. 14:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And everybody I worked with, and that's a group of about 12 people. 14:33 [SPEAKER_02]: They all had the same conclusion as those three 14:42 [SPEAKER_02]: just the outright lying right on camera and the fear was just almost like what I said earlier like a training video and they were actually an amazement at some of these things especially at you and everybody agrees with what I've said on this podcast that Edgar and Scenel totally involved. 15:04 [SPEAKER_02]: lots of signs of deception, and also Sharon May not involved with the crime particularly, but running all kinds of interference and blocking information and all that stuff, whatever she did. 15:18 [SPEAKER_02]: But 100% agreement that she was probably involved in some type of cover-up, but it's funny to get that many people to agree and they were amazed. 15:27 [SPEAKER_02]: We were watching on 15:34 [SPEAKER_02]: like I said, I don't want to give out who I work for, and I don't want to give out most of my credentials. 15:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I give some info about my training and all that just a minute ago. 15:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And if someone wants to waste their time digging around, good luck, and not going to find anything about what I do. 15:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted to go over some of the things that people asked about on some of the podcast sites and stuff, some of the comments. 15:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I just want to go over to help explain to people, so we'll have a better understanding of what have observed throughout this whole process. 16:06 [SPEAKER_03]: May I ask you a question before you move on? 16:09 [SPEAKER_03]: I think we just heard you say that you actually do interrogations or infant years. 16:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I know there, what's the difference between an interview and an interrogation? 16:20 [SPEAKER_02]: We call them the same thing. 16:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Interview when you're just talking to someone, what I do anyway. 16:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I just talked to someone. 16:29 [SPEAKER_02]: It's informal. 16:30 [SPEAKER_02]: You can talk to them in an office. 16:32 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not being recorded. 16:34 [SPEAKER_02]: You're just trying to get some information. 16:36 [SPEAKER_02]: But when you're interrogating someone, you have a pretty strong likelihood that this person was involved in the crime. 16:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Your video tape and you're watching for these sciences indicate you ought to get information out of them. 16:49 [SPEAKER_02]: and like I said, there's so many times how opportunities were missed during interviews or interrogations, what indicated as a shown that you could have gotten more information by going down those rabbit holes. 17:02 [SPEAKER_03]: And we talked about this a little bit before our film makers were incredible. 17:08 [SPEAKER_03]: think they knew that they were going to have the opportunity to talk to some of these people for an extended length of time. 17:16 [SPEAKER_03]: So, for example, when we talked about Edgar, and we mentioned this the other night that Ryan is a wonderful director, but if he had been trained in interrogation, 17:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, absolutely because if you had someone in there at the time and you can say, oh, we should have done this or they could have asked that because that was a while ago, but if you had someone to ask like when you're talking to someone for example. 17:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And you have them in interrogation room. 17:48 [SPEAKER_02]: You have an end and office doing an edge if you would have you. 17:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And they're pretty relaxed and talking to you freely. 17:54 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and you present a question to them, and it totally changes their demeanor, for instance, like you ask them a question. 18:03 [SPEAKER_02]: It all said he's got the huge breath and the huge Adam's apple jump and it's throat. 18:08 [SPEAKER_02]: When he sees a picture cap, you want to go say, in your mind, why did that trigger him like that? 18:14 [SPEAKER_02]: He must go more about this than what he's saying. 18:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Ask more questions about Kathy, you ask more questions about how we knew her. 18:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Ask more questions to the meat her at all, did he know of friends of hers? 18:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Just anything to just let him talk it. 18:32 [SPEAKER_02]: that change system, you know, what road can we go down now and ask them? 18:37 [SPEAKER_02]: That subject must be investigated more. 18:40 [SPEAKER_02]: So what you have to do, you have to come to a resolution and find out why that area calls to change in that individual's baseline. 18:48 [SPEAKER_02]: The baseline I talk about and this might have confused some people earlier is the person's baseline when you're interrogating them 19:00 [SPEAKER_02]: they're not worried about anything and all of a sudden you get a nerve, that's when they're baseline, there's a change in it, there's a deviation from their baseline. 19:09 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's when you want to applaud us. 19:11 [SPEAKER_03]: I also noticed that when they asked him a couple questions, they said something about, did you have anything to do with Kathy's murder? 19:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Who said no, like right away, like it right away. 19:23 [SPEAKER_03]: That's like just, well, no, is there some significance to that? 19:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yes, I know answers can be a sign of deception because you don't want to give any information, but the thing with that was the thing that instantly covered his mouth. 19:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have any information? 19:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you know who killed Kathy? 19:42 [SPEAKER_02]: That same, they were like mirror images of the same thing. 19:46 [SPEAKER_02]: His finger went right over his mouth exactly when the words came out. 19:49 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a, I don't mean to laugh, but that's total textbook that in training video of his mouth 19:56 [SPEAKER_02]: because you don't want that information to come out. 20:01 [SPEAKER_02]: So you brain splitting, say, and no, don't say it. 20:05 [SPEAKER_02]: So the brain sends the finger over, and I've said this before, and he denies it. 20:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And so the brain goes, okay, we're safe, he didn't say it. 20:13 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and he chose many clusters too, which I've mentioned before, the pre-cension mission course. 20:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Some of theirs are like, 20:22 [SPEAKER_03]: They're extremely obvious, right? 20:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Extremely, yes. 20:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, they're not just subtle. 20:28 [SPEAKER_03]: They're like out there. 20:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 20:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 20:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I do have one more question before you go back to the other episodes of your own mind. 20:36 [SPEAKER_03]: That episode seven. 20:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Episode 7 is the one where Charles and Jean are talking, but they don't know about the other person. 20:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And as a comparison, did you have any sense of Charles brand demeanor during the time that he was talking? 20:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Like he sent some how he was feeling or his because the church has been really adamant that he's not telling truths and believe it. 21:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just wondering what your perception was. 21:10 [SPEAKER_02]: It would say that he definitely is telling truths. 21:14 [SPEAKER_02]: He's not showing granted. 21:15 [SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't really being interviewed. 21:17 [SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't being interrogated or crying by anything. 21:21 [SPEAKER_02]: But you could see, and when you've been doing this for a long time, you can really read people's spaces. 21:27 [SPEAKER_02]: You can read the way their eyes look. 21:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And to me, he had a really deep sadness and his look. 21:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I was just going to say that. 21:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Sharon said. 21:38 [SPEAKER_02]: very sad. 21:39 [SPEAKER_02]: When he talked, he was very clear. 21:43 [SPEAKER_02]: He had his no hesitation, no indecision. 21:47 [SPEAKER_02]: He was just stating what he had been through. 21:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And the guy had no indicators other than maybe a little stress, which is acceptable because when you're going back and telling what happened to you and you are a 22:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's going to take you a little uncomfortable to relive that, but there was nothing over the top. 22:08 [SPEAKER_02]: He was pretty steady. 22:10 [SPEAKER_02]: His behaviors were constant. 22:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And the guy didn't want to call the light. 22:13 [SPEAKER_02]: You can see it in his space. 22:15 [SPEAKER_02]: The guy's telling the truth, you know. 22:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And why don't know if you were aware that he was my neighbor or he lived right across the lawn and I didn't know that he was involved in all this until somebody else told me and I went over and talked to him and then he came over and met with some makers towards the end they're filming but I almost sensed in that last scene like a sense of almost desperation that he was so sad that he had to accept 22:46 [SPEAKER_03]: that they were never going to believe him yet he was still trying to it's like somebody who's out on a raft while on like he's still trying to make himself understood I don't know I think it was so brilliant and he's not had an easy time since this series came out. 23:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and when when they asked him, what does he want? 23:08 [SPEAKER_02]: You want to vote? 23:09 [SPEAKER_02]: They just want to do what's right. 23:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Just do what's right. 23:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 23:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Want anything from them? 23:14 [SPEAKER_02]: He didn't want anything. 23:15 [SPEAKER_02]: He just wanted for them to admit what had happened. 23:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you see it in his eyes that he was getting almost a little emotional? 23:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Just do what's right. 23:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I totally want it. 23:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Simple. 23:24 [SPEAKER_02]: I believe you guys are upset. 23:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, thanks for that perception because I think a lot of people felt the same way and I just, I think it's an interesting comparison to the other people who were so deceptive. 23:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, oh, absolutely. 23:37 [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to say the same thing about G, too, when she's speaking, again, she wasn't interviewed or anything. 23:44 [SPEAKER_02]: But she can tell she's genuine. 23:46 [SPEAKER_02]: You can tell she's telling the truth 100%. 23:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And whoever doesn't believe her, I don't know. 23:52 [SPEAKER_02]: You can just go ahead and go away because she's telling her story. 23:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And she's 100% truthful. 23:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And I still so bad for her. 24:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And you can see it in her face, too. 24:03 [SPEAKER_02]: She's, 24:04 [SPEAKER_02]: just tell in her story. 24:05 [SPEAKER_02]: And if she's showing any kind of stress, that's a little bit acceptable. 24:09 [SPEAKER_02]: You can take that in and say, yeah, we're a little emotional. 24:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Tell in that story, too. 24:15 [SPEAKER_02]: No fear, no deception from her or any of us vibe us. 24:19 [SPEAKER_02]: They just tell in this stories. 24:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And they're 100% truthful in my opinion. 24:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks. 24:24 [SPEAKER_03]: That clarifies a lot, I think, for all of us. 24:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so we're going to go into episode six with true. 24:32 [SPEAKER_02]: There's an interesting part of this clip that I want to go over with and true. 24:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And after so six, in the timestamp is 51, 55. 24:45 [SPEAKER_02]: any state says he's walking down the hall in some type of church, whoever did this is guilty, and has lived a miserable life because of it. 24:55 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a direct quote from prove in the series. 24:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, in my training, when someone says something like that, they usually know a lot about 25:06 [SPEAKER_02]: something they're not saying, or they're guilty themselves, or know the party that is involved. 25:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Kube also states the first person to forgive him, the killer, would be Kathy. 25:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, he's putting himself in Kathy's shoes saying, yeah, she would forgive him, the killer. 25:26 [SPEAKER_02]: First of all, very strange statement to me. 25:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I believe the person that did this is guilty, and I think that we can all agree, that's kind of strange, of course, who's guilty, he murdered someone. 25:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And second, I don't know if there was a question asked, but he stated that Chathy, like I said, would forget the killer. 25:45 [SPEAKER_02]: This is usually a deceptive statement, 25:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Usually, a guilty person or person who knows something more will usually lean toward leniency or forgiveness to get that person another chance. 26:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And he states that, he states it almost verbatim. 26:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Kathy would, but he's puttin' himself in Kathy's shoes. 26:07 [SPEAKER_02]: She would forgive him. 26:09 [SPEAKER_02]: It's an aim for it, it's called the second chance response. 26:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Second chance response is the same thing he's saying. 26:16 [SPEAKER_02]: So when you have someone in interrogation room, you say, what do you think should happen to the killer? 26:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Someone that's guilty are involved in the crime will usually say, oh, they should be even leniency. 26:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they need counseling. 26:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they should be put on some type of program. 26:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's exactly what he's saying. 26:33 [SPEAKER_02]: She would forget them. 26:34 [SPEAKER_02]: It's an odd thing. 26:35 [SPEAKER_02]: It's called the second cheese response. 26:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Most people would say, oh, her killer deserves the death penalty. 26:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Her killer deserves to be a locked away life in prison. 26:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the range thing for him to say. 26:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And I just, what's the textbook thing? 26:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I rent up all about it. 26:50 [SPEAKER_02]: It's the second chance response. 26:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's strange. 26:53 [SPEAKER_02]: So my opinion, Kube, again, I've said this before, he knows a lot more than what's coming across. 27:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And Tom Nugien said, he's a smart guy. 27:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And he said that. 27:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And I agree, he does some strange stuff, which leads you to believe, decently, 27:16 [SPEAKER_02]: a lot more than what he's saying. 27:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And he's a very tough guy to read, but he slips up now and again, and he's got these strange mannerisms that just come across to me as strange. 27:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Instead of saying, he says, him. 27:31 [SPEAKER_02]: which indicates to me, he may be speaking or something specific he knows about. 27:35 [SPEAKER_02]: He said Kathy would forgive him. 27:37 [SPEAKER_02]: This kind of thing should say him, or I don't know. 27:40 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just a whirlwind for this guy. 27:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't get a finger on him, but definitely knows more than what he's saying. 27:48 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, a little bit about, I don't know and I might be 27:52 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people might be with me on this about dying in coup. 27:56 [SPEAKER_02]: She's very stressed out. 27:58 [SPEAKER_02]: She shows a lot of stress and decayed his, like I said, she wasn't interviewing her, but she weren't she was talking to the camera. 28:04 [SPEAKER_02]: But she got emotional. 28:06 [SPEAKER_02]: She stated if he had been involved, she wanted brought you light at the same time. 28:10 [SPEAKER_02]: She was shaking her head now. 28:11 [SPEAKER_02]: The verbal message doesn't match the gesture. 28:13 [SPEAKER_02]: But she displayed a little bit of an exaggerated emotion. 28:16 [SPEAKER_02]: She got a little emotional after stating she wasn't and she was pretty confident that he wasn't involved. 28:21 [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know. 28:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I might be grabbing at nothing right here, but she may know he might have invited in her. 28:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I have no idea. 28:28 [SPEAKER_02]: But she just acts very stressed a lot. 28:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's all I have for those things. 28:33 [SPEAKER_02]: But as far as coup, given that second chance response, very strange to me in my experience. 28:41 [SPEAKER_03]: She went with us the day that we went over to the carriage house and apartments. 28:46 [SPEAKER_03]: If you remember that whole situation where it could walk just around and point you out things, she held back and I don't believe she was even in the camera at all, but she kept saying to us, this is so good for him. 29:01 [SPEAKER_03]: This is so therapeutic for him. 29:04 [SPEAKER_03]: She said it like multiple times. 29:07 [SPEAKER_03]: She held back and we were all trying to be appropriate and respectful of people's privacy and their emotions, but there was a whole bunch of us there. 29:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought it was interesting that she was really pretty much removed from everything that her husband was talking about doing 29:29 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, that's significant or not, but it was almost, I felt like she was his mom's, yeah. 29:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 29:39 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know. 29:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how else to say it. 29:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes you get those gut feelings when they usually write and in my experience in my field, they actually tell you, but you got feeling is usually right. 29:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, it's called then slicing. 29:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And when you think slice someone when you're talking somewhat and getting that gut feeling. 29:59 [SPEAKER_02]: It's your mind. 30:00 [SPEAKER_02]: It's automatically assessing support. 30:03 [SPEAKER_02]: and whatever experience you've had in your past is happening. 30:07 [SPEAKER_02]: However, you judge people or whatever has happened. 30:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Your mind does the show of subconscious does this automatically. 30:13 [SPEAKER_02]: You're already getting information from people in that field. 30:17 [SPEAKER_02]: It's usually 98% of the time correct. 30:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And what is it called? 30:22 [SPEAKER_02]: It's called then slicing. 30:23 [SPEAKER_02]: You can read about it in that book that truths about lying. 30:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 30:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we need to tell people that book is so easy to understand. 30:32 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not real technical. 30:34 [SPEAKER_03]: The first about lying. 30:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 30:37 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a great book. 30:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Great. 30:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks, Mike. 30:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate like I said earlier at the beginning of that this experience was great. 30:43 [SPEAKER_02]: And I really appreciate you guys to let me in. 30:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to say all the observations of all these major characters in the story. 30:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Come from my medias of training, with the actual experience on the job, when people are being interviewed or interrogated, the indicators that present themselves will verbally non-verbaly their actions, their mannerisms. 31:07 [SPEAKER_02]: and even the involuntary ones. 31:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I can spot them pretty easily. 31:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes when I don't see it, I have to go over things again. 31:14 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I have to do. 31:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a bit of an example. 31:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Fortunately, many of these indicators, like we talked about it a while back in our few minutes ago, they went on the answer. 31:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Better questions could have been asked. 31:25 [SPEAKER_02]: More rapid holes could have been 31:29 [SPEAKER_02]: like Ryan had more knowledge he ended up training how to do that. 31:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I believe in my opinion that much more detailed if got more inspections may have been brought to light. 31:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And like we said, it was a great series and it was done well, Ryan did a great job. 31:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I think everybody did, but I do stand by all my observations and opinions of the major plays that are in the story. 31:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I believe the ones I named, I'm going to say them again. 31:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to say Scenel, I'm going to say Sharon May, I'm going to say Edga, I'm going to say Coup, I believe they were all actually involved, especially Edgern Scenel, there's just too much for me to even doubt it. 32:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, 32:13 [SPEAKER_02]: as everyone knows. 32:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Most and many of them have passed away except the one. 32:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And I believe in my opinion, he knows a lot more like I said a few months ago than he's saying. 32:25 [SPEAKER_02]: I believe sister Russell knew a lot too. 32:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, she knew whether she was threatened her family, no idea of knowing, but she definitely had some secrets to tell or some information to give, but we'll never know 32:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that anybody that's in my opinion that's searching for closure for this can really believe that address and now we're involved directly and I also believe that who knows much more than he comes across as knowing. 33:03 [SPEAKER_02]: This is my opinion in my experience. 33:05 [SPEAKER_02]: All I can do is hope that one day it comes to light. 33:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I hope this release can be solved. 33:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it will. 33:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what they have, but I hope it comes to light. 33:15 [SPEAKER_02]: And all I can say is God bless Sister Kathy and her family. 33:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And I hope this all comes to fruition day. 33:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's about all I have for the last episode. 33:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Please anybody who knows anything. 33:28 [SPEAKER_03]: You can report anonymously. 33:31 [SPEAKER_03]: We can help you get in touch with the right person. 33:33 [SPEAKER_03]: The Tory General was doing a criminal investigation and declurgy abuse. 33:39 [SPEAKER_03]: The FBI and the police department are handling Kathy's case. 33:44 [SPEAKER_03]: They are not finished with it. 33:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm begging you, somebody out there, but hearing this, knows something. 33:52 [SPEAKER_03]: They might not think it's important. 33:54 [SPEAKER_03]: And every time somebody gets in touch with one of us and says, I don't think this is important, but it is. 34:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Look at what happened with Sharon Bush. 34:02 [SPEAKER_03]: She had a lot of information about the night before in the day after. 34:06 [SPEAKER_03]: I am begging you and Kathy's name to please get in touch with somebody that can help you and or may or shame and we will put you in the right hands. 34:19 [SPEAKER_03]: We will protect you. 34:20 [SPEAKER_03]: So my way so appreciate everything you have shared with us. 34:25 [SPEAKER_03]: You have no idea what this means. 34:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you guys. 34:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate it and like you said, it can be the smallest bit of information if you remember something you went to that school anything even the smallest little bit of information can turn things around any memory anything like that just come forward and let 34:52 [SPEAKER_02]: about coming forward. 34:53 [SPEAKER_02]: If you feel guilty about telling someone about a priest that abuse you in Baltimore or wherever, just don't be afraid to come forward and you could bring people to justice and put an end to this thing. 35:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 35:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, Mike. 35:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep. 35:09 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, guys. 35:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate it. 35:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, family. 35:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Once again. 35:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 35:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, Mike for your time. 35:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep. 35:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks. 35:23 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching.
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