0:08 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching. 0:25 [SPEAKER_01]: today, Jim and I are joined with George Brown. 0:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And if that name sounds familiar, that's because George is actually the man who found Sister Kathy. 0:36 [SPEAKER_01]: George, the Arbutis time said that you and you are, I believe it was your steps and at the time lived on plastic court in Middle River when you found Kathy. 0:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that accurate? 0:47 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 0:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Where were you living at the time? 0:49 [SPEAKER_01]: All the living in the world of monumental road and landstown. 0:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And how long were you there? 0:54 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they're about. 0:55 [SPEAKER_01]: two years. 0:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you a Baltimore native? 0:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 0:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I am. 1:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 1:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So you've been there for a while in the area. 1:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Where else have you lived in Baltimore? 1:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I've lived and he have been ramming them, staff Baltimore. 1:08 [SPEAKER_01]: When we spoke last, you mentioned that you, you've had an interesting employment history. 1:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you remind me of that? 1:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I used to put burial bolts in the ground, but I'm not mistaken at that time. 1:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Where was that up? 1:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, see, we're all in 1:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So what are that consist of? 1:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Layed the ballch and ground for a drop down. 1:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so that's the vault that people put the dash gets in. 1:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so did you do that for all around Baltimore? 1:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, all over the state. 1:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 1:38 [SPEAKER_00]: George, by the way, thank you so much for doing this for us. 1:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I do have a question. 1:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Do as Shane said, the Arbutis Times had your address and accurate. 1:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you ever live one plastic court in middle river or how did that happen? 1:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, one time. 1:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I lived there with my. 1:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 1:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Good. 1:57 [SPEAKER_03]: My second wife and I do all separated. 2:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but you weren't living there at the time that you found Sister Kathy. 2:04 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 2:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 2:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I know there's monumental road, monumental avenue, which part of monumental did you live on? 2:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Were you on the Hohens Fairy side or it's fairy side, where the old Dongeburg used to be? 2:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so you would have been on the opposite side of the railroad tracks correct living over there because people get that confused, you know what I'm saying and the washing's emblem is root one and that's actually the side where she was found correct. 2:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Correct. 2:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we understand that you guys were hunting. 2:43 [SPEAKER_00]: What would have caused you to be hunting in that area? 2:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I've looked at pictures and it doesn't look like there's that much wooded area to be hunting here. 2:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Squirrels and rabbits. 2:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 2:56 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to tell me that you would eat squirrels and rabbits. 2:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes. 3:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, that's good. 3:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 3:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Your son, your steps on how old was he at the time? 3:09 [SPEAKER_03]: That's seven years old. 3:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so that means you were wet in your 20s. 3:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it was late 20s. 3:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And so was that a normal thing for you guys to be hunting over there on a, I guess it was for the Saturday. 3:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 3:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 3:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Some somewhere, you know, be able to shout it because I would have been all. 3:31 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't watch the shot. 3:32 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't. 3:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I saw a Sunday's a world. 3:35 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't, really, is that still, is that, that's still the case? 3:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, if you do, you've got to have a special permit and it's only allowed in certain areas. 3:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Like your government will bring you in to go and do our own property because of gear or something is over the populating area. 3:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember where I in Lianzown, you were hunting that day? 3:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It was right there, not far from you, but where I was living at. 4:04 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's taking about figure about five minutes from my house to where I'll be found. 4:09 [SPEAKER_01]: you had hunted in the area before then. 4:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 4:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Was that private property at the time? 4:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Where she was found? 4:18 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say it was probably state property. 4:22 [SPEAKER_03]: It used to be a dump, is that right? 4:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you had maybe two houses that were in that area. 4:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And where she was at. 4:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I've read before that there was a brick factory somewhere around there. 4:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember that at all? 4:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I know you said you lived in the areas. 4:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It was not a brick factory. 4:41 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a distillery. 4:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It was called majestic distillery. 4:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so the distillery was there, but there was no brick factory. 4:49 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 4:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 4:51 [SPEAKER_00]: George, I have the next question back in the day when you were living on monumental. 4:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember it was possible to cross the railroad tracks there? 5:01 [SPEAKER_00]: If kids were playing on the side that you lived on, but they'd be able to go across the railroad tracks to the other side. 5:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah. 5:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So there was no barrier. 5:11 [SPEAKER_02]: No. 5:14 [SPEAKER_02]: All you had was wood to go up through. 5:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so if you crossed the railroad tracks, that would put you very close to the distillerate correct. 5:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, okay. 5:28 [SPEAKER_03]: You also had a silly mattress up in that area. 5:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You also, okay, is that building still there? 5:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know which building the silly mattress building? 5:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's still there and the distributive yard, the majestic distilleries still there. 5:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've seen that old building. 5:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It's creepy looking, isn't it? 5:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I was in production. 5:49 [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't vacated. 5:50 [SPEAKER_03]: That was a production plan. 5:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I spoke to somebody over there and they said they're making pickles now. 5:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So I guess there's still something going on there. 5:59 [SPEAKER_00]: The office was open. 6:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to ask you, do you recall the Schmidt business, the trucking business on Holland's ferry? 6:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I was on a war not far from where I said it that and what do you remember about it? 6:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you know the guys that owns the company? 6:16 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I think it had the blue. 6:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a real remarkable building because it has a very blue roof. 6:21 [SPEAKER_00]: You can actually see it in aerial picture. 6:23 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember the name of the company. 6:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, did you know the Schmidt family that lived up monumental and Lincoln and monumental in the corner there? 6:33 [SPEAKER_03]: No. 6:37 [SPEAKER_00]: What corner you're talking about if you go up monumental from like the distillery towards root one. 6:44 [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I didn't know anybody up on that side there walk a water, a water and pull a word without why whichever one you want to say right okay. 6:54 [SPEAKER_01]: life can get overwhelming, and talking to someone can make all the difference. 7:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Better help, the sponsor of this episode, make starting therapy simple. 7:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Complete a short questionnaire and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and as little as a couple of days, you can connect by message, phone, or video, from wherever you feel comfortable. 7:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And if the first therapist 7:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Better help include a journal for personal reflection, and daily group sessions on a variety of topics, and they accept HSA and FSA cards. 7:35 [SPEAKER_01]: with over 2,000,000 users, and a 4-point star rating on trust pilot. 7:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Better help is a trusted platform for accessible mental health care. 7:45 [SPEAKER_01]: If you think you could benefit from therapy, visit betterhelp.com, choose our podcast during sign-up, and get 10% off your first month. 7:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Taking care of your mental health is a sign of strength. 7:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Start your journey today. 8:00 [SPEAKER_01]: George, would you mind walking me through, as best as you can remember, the timeline of everything that happened that day that you found Kathy? 8:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I hear the best I can. 8:12 [SPEAKER_03]: May I like the steps on? 8:13 [SPEAKER_03]: We had our German Shepherd dog with us. 8:16 [SPEAKER_03]: We had come out of the woods. 8:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Right there where money money was. 8:21 [SPEAKER_03]: We're avenue, whichever one you want to call it, where the story is, where we found her. 8:30 [SPEAKER_03]: My steps are coming up to me as I was walking down. 8:33 [SPEAKER_03]: He said, hey, there's a big old doll down here. 8:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And I walked down, I looked at it, did not look like they're down, and I went down a little closer. 8:43 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was the body. 8:47 [SPEAKER_03]: All the way, you could tell if you were male or female, as if you looked real close and you could see your little breasts were so sure to bend. 8:56 [SPEAKER_03]: There was an African American family that lived in a house, saved 50 yards from where it was at. 9:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, whenever this asked if they had a phone and they said, yes, it may I use it to call the police and they said, yeah, I called the police department 9:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And then I showed the cop where the body was. 9:21 [SPEAKER_03]: He made a phone call on his radio. 9:25 [SPEAKER_03]: And the next thing I know is just like you opened up the sky and the cops come to mind out. 9:30 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was going to bring to your story. 9:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And they said, they could have turned around and came back. 9:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Nobody went down to work. 9:37 [SPEAKER_03]: The distributor would come. 9:39 [SPEAKER_03]: He was and turned around. 9:41 [SPEAKER_03]: They all pulled just pulled straight in. 9:43 [SPEAKER_03]: She was a land on the left-hand side of the road. 9:48 [SPEAKER_01]: There's barely enough room to get too vehicle down that road. 9:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember when the police came, what type of questions they were asking you by chance? 9:56 [SPEAKER_01]: They asked me basically to ask me how I have to be in the area. 10:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Because I had a shotgun with me. 10:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I had my own license on my back and my own jacket. 10:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was a 12-gauge shotgun. 10:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was able to get a hold of my mother and her husband. 10:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And they came and got the dog and my stepson. 10:21 [SPEAKER_03]: then they told me to Western district on the county police station. 10:25 [SPEAKER_03]: That one, well, can you have a new and that's where any question. 10:29 [SPEAKER_03]: But what questions to answer other than what I just said, that I don't remember. 10:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Got to remember, I'm there 75 now. 10:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Besides the police that arrived, do you remember anyone else coming to the scene? 10:43 [SPEAKER_03]: You're on the director from Hobbits, Hobbits, General All-Movements, Avenue Cain, and Children Chisel to get it off the ground because she had been brothers and children around. 10:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And you were there to watch all that happen? 10:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 10:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I was. 10:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So did they already take her away before the police brought you to the station? 11:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 11:04 [SPEAKER_01]: OK. Do you remember about how long they questioned you? 11:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I was here to make it about two hours. 11:12 [SPEAKER_01]: OK. 11:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, they let you go. 11:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I hate it. 11:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 11:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, before you had come across sister Kathy, did you remember hearing in the news about her going missing at all? 11:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I did. 11:29 [SPEAKER_01]: OK, so she called that. 11:31 [SPEAKER_01]: She came missing from up to Charles Creek, the city. 11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: What point did you realize that this was her? 11:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea, so they said it. 11:41 [SPEAKER_01]: But they say it wouldn't at least arrived over the news. 11:44 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 11:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And the news. 11:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, how I found out will it was? 11:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 11:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember ever hearing how they believed that she was killed? 11:53 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 11:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 11:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So you still probably don't know then? 11:57 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 11:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you that I'll say this. 12:01 [SPEAKER_03]: If you wanted to follow us to medical examiner, I think I would have been sick because there was no way you could follow that for a brush now. 12:10 [SPEAKER_03]: There was no way you could tell it was a female. 12:13 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, if you were looking at her, the animals or something had gotten to her general area. 12:19 [SPEAKER_01]: We knew that just from reading the autopsy report, but when you were looking at her, was there anything that you could tell that could have been how she was killed? 12:29 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 12:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so that wasn't obvious when you saw it then. 12:33 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 12:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 12:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So after they had released you and you at home, have you ever been questioned about that day at all since then? 12:40 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 12:42 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 12:42 [SPEAKER_01]: When was the next time you'd ever hear about Sister Kathy? 12:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's not long after that, and then when you put that Netflix show. 12:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Also the keepers, you realize that was the lady that found. 12:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 12:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you watch the keepers? 13:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not too much of a person on that kind of stuff. 13:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure. 13:05 [SPEAKER_03]: But obviously, like I say, I watch some of it. 13:08 [SPEAKER_03]: You remember what's part you watched? 13:11 [SPEAKER_03]: And when Ad was talking about the priest and all that kind of stuff. 13:16 [SPEAKER_01]: did you recognize the priest by any chance? 13:22 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 13:23 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 13:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So you had never heard of father masquerque? 13:26 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 13:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not Catholic. 13:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And I like their way to conduct their services. 13:31 [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm not, I don't like to show them their restrictions and all that kind of stuff. 13:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. 13:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's funny to say that because I'm not Catholic. 13:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So this whole thing has been a huge learning experience because as I'm sure they have very strong virtuos and things like that. 13:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Just by chance, you said you're not Catholic, so you weren't raised Catholic. 13:50 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 13:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Got it. 13:52 [SPEAKER_03]: My sister there. 13:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I had friends that were Catholic. 13:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And I sister ended up one of my best friends as a husband. 14:01 [SPEAKER_03]: He was a Catholic. 14:02 [SPEAKER_00]: George, you mentioned that you remember Sister Kathy disappearing from Charles Street. 14:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you mean that she wasn't actually living on Charles Street? 14:11 [SPEAKER_00]: She was over at the Carriage House Apartments. 14:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm assuming you meant that the school sisters of Notre Dame, there was one Charles Street, is that what you meant? 14:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, ma'am, because that's where she came up. 14:23 [SPEAKER_03]: That's where she came up missing from. 14:25 [SPEAKER_00]: She actually was missing from, do you know where the carriage house apartments are? 14:29 [SPEAKER_00]: One, North Bend Road by Rockland, middle school. 14:34 [SPEAKER_03]: I know where you're talking about, yeah. 14:35 [SPEAKER_00]: That's where she lived. 14:36 [SPEAKER_00]: She had left the high school. 14:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Yep. 14:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but she, according to the note, back then, she had been visiting or something up on Charles Street. 14:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's where she had said she had originally 14:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay. 14:51 [SPEAKER_00]: She was in Emerson Village shopping center and it was on. 14:54 [SPEAKER_00]: She had come back to her apartment. 14:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll go back and check and see where the Charles street information came from. 15:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's like the newspaper said you lived on such a fort. 15:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And now we understand that you wouldn't have driven all the way across the city. 15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: That's in middle river, correct? 15:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's all from Martin Boulevard. 15:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 15:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, is that near the Marina? 15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: what marina you're talking about is there there's a bunch of marinas in middle river correct 15:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I don't know if he's turn out or not, although he's turn out of him. 15:25 [SPEAKER_00]: OK. 15:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a question about the day that you and your steps on found, Sister Kathy. 15:32 [SPEAKER_00]: You said that he said there's a big doll there. 15:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Was that area was not wooded at the time, correct? 15:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Where she was found. 15:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It was an open land zone. 15:43 [SPEAKER_00]: That was an open land zone. 15:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 15:46 [SPEAKER_03]: OK. And it also had wood surrounded. 15:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and that area now is what it, right? 15:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I imagine it has just been a while since I've been over there. 15:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, can you describe anything else about the crime scene that you remember? 16:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure it was not a pleasant scene, but was there anything else that you can think of that you saw on the ground or clothing or shoes, purse, anything that you remember? 16:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she was fully close. 16:19 [SPEAKER_03]: She was fully close when I seen her. 16:22 [SPEAKER_00]: OK. Do you remember a raincoat, a blue raincoat? 16:28 [SPEAKER_03]: off the top of my head now. 16:30 [SPEAKER_00]: No, OK. You're saying that it was impossible to tell if it was a male or a female. 16:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, unless you got real close to the body and took a good look. 16:41 [SPEAKER_03]: The way I knew it was a female, she was called that pop, but you could. 16:47 [SPEAKER_03]: It was definite in that area that you could tell was a female. 16:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you ever wonder why the police never questioned you again after all this. 16:58 [SPEAKER_03]: That I have no idea, just it's odd that they wouldn't have if they open it back up. 17:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 17:07 [SPEAKER_03]: But my brother County had my name and he had the address that I was living at when I found people to go to found me if they wanted to know and check the records and stuff like that. 17:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you with your steps on? 17:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think he would talk to us? 17:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think he remembers much from that? 17:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think he I don't think he'll remember him. 17:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have no idea how to get a hold in him. 17:27 [SPEAKER_03]: His mother and I separated and they divorced. 17:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't seen my daughter since she was seven years old because I don't have serious security cards back then. 17:38 [SPEAKER_03]: They didn't issue that Monday trial was first born in 71. 17:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So do you have do you still live in the Baltimore area? 17:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I did about minutes out of a nap list. 17:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay. 17:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go on the camera. 17:54 [SPEAKER_01]: George, do you remember after you found Kathy, you had told us, or you told me before that you went to a house to call the police, do you remember what house you went to and how that conversation happened? 18:06 [SPEAKER_03]: They would write on her and write next to the dump. 18:08 [SPEAKER_03]: That wasn't that far from the dump, we're outbounded. 18:11 [SPEAKER_03]: They would maybe, like I said, maybe 50 yards, maybe less. 18:17 [SPEAKER_03]: So after you've found, you're not going to go ahead. 18:21 [SPEAKER_03]: I found her, I went to the house and asked her if I could use a phone or she had one and she said she had one, she'd I'd be used. 18:30 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why not call the cops. 18:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember the names of any of the officers that you spoke to or did you write anything down? 18:36 [SPEAKER_03]: No. 18:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Does the agency just James Scanel ring a bell? 18:44 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, because I never knew any of the names of the police that was there. 18:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you went to the station, do you remember how many officers questioned you or were they, and were they detectives or police officers? 18:58 [SPEAKER_03]: They might have been detectives. 19:00 [SPEAKER_03]: It's been a while, while you're talking. 19:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Or do you almost just do it? 19:04 [SPEAKER_03]: They didn't know anything. 19:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 19:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 19:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be 50 years next in the November. 19:10 [SPEAKER_03]: There you go. 19:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 19:11 [SPEAKER_03]: How did you get five? 19:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 19:14 [SPEAKER_00]: How did you feel about being there at the station and being questioned? 19:18 [SPEAKER_00]: What was that? 19:19 [SPEAKER_00]: What was that like? 19:20 [SPEAKER_03]: That was nervous. 19:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 19:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Imagine anybody would be nervous. 19:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Being questioned. 19:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Especially you find like that. 19:28 [SPEAKER_01]: George, the work that Jim and I are doing now, of course, we're trying to piece the timeline together, of course, to try to figure out what could have happened in 19:39 [SPEAKER_01]: that you were called, that could be important to our own investigation. 19:44 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I really, it was like an EF getting basically a vote of large. 19:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was my question. 19:49 [SPEAKER_00]: What time was it when you found her? 19:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was about, I say, maybe two o'clock in the afternoon. 19:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That must have been very upsetting for a seven-year-old boy to have to witness dead body. 20:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 20:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 20:09 [SPEAKER_00]: sure how close were you able to get yourself. 20:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I got pretty real close to it. 20:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I got down to where I was next to the body. 20:17 [SPEAKER_03]: They look at it to see it make sure it was a thought wasn't a thought or a body. 20:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Now I'd never seen it dial that big. 20:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I understand. 20:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you recall another young woman being killed shortly after Sister Kathy disappeared by the name of Malekki? 20:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I might have seen something but I never read the story and do you recall living over there on monumental anything about people that would hang around that area or I know that distillery was it wanted dead end do you remember anybody like being around there or the police having to be over there frequently because of young people hanging out. 20:58 [SPEAKER_03]: No. 20:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any questions for us, George? 21:01 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I just, and the way I think I would like to know what's going on with the case. 21:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I know it's called, or more by receiving one news, but about almost a year ago, where they were part and about the stuff that they're up using all this going on, what that school on Kate and I have to do. 21:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 21:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Good day. 21:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember the name now. 21:23 [SPEAKER_03]: It's been like it's been a while. 21:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Archbishop T.L. 21:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I was a student there. 21:29 [SPEAKER_00]: She was my teacher. 21:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she was. 21:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Sister Kathy was my teacher. 21:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's the reason. 21:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, she's the reason I became a teacher. 21:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 21:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, when we started looking into what happened to her, we've got the feeling that so much time has gone by. 21:46 [SPEAKER_00]: We've realized that. 21:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And there may be a cover-up on the part of some institutions. 21:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And we've just been really digging for information. 21:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And when Jane came across your phone number, we thought that you would be a good resource to help us and to give us some background and tighten up the timeline a little bit for us. 22:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So we do appreciate that. 22:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, she, she wasn't human being, she deserves some kind of family don't. 22:19 [SPEAKER_03]: If all, and how many of them would be seeing alive, but they do deserve some kind of closure and what happened to her family feels the same way right now. 22:28 [SPEAKER_00]: The police Baltimore County police are still working the case and we're still I'm a bug in their ear because I pastor them constantly I send information to them if I hear something I'm wondering if they were interested in talking to you just like we are would you be willing to talk to them again. 22:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll talk to them. 22:50 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, we can make sure they have your contact information. 22:53 [SPEAKER_00]: If that's OK with you. 22:54 [SPEAKER_03]: That's fine. 22:56 [SPEAKER_03]: OK, I got nothing to add to them. 22:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything at all that you would like to say to the people that are listening? 23:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I can say, as I hope they find out who looked what it was and who it was. 23:08 [SPEAKER_03]: And they get the more I've read on the reports or heard on the reports 23:14 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a pot was a possibility that she was killed or kidnapped or whichever way you want to go with it, because of students telling her what was going on. 23:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's correct. 23:27 [SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly correct. 23:29 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what we believe, you know, from what's going on from what I here and read and he listened to when I listened to the news about what's going on, which is I'm going to schools and all that. 23:39 [SPEAKER_03]: I got a feel that is the case. 23:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And because this beast was very popular, that's possibility of why she wins a dad saying murder. 23:54 [SPEAKER_00]: We agree with you, George. 23:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Jim, what was the name of the cemetery that mascot buried those documents at? 24:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Holy cross, cemetery. 24:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, ball rich, yeah, I'll wait. 24:04 [SPEAKER_03]: You know it. 24:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sign now it. 24:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I used to put burial waltz in a ground and no, I just about every cemetery in Baltimore City, Baltimore County and all over the state. 24:15 [SPEAKER_03]: That's interesting. 24:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Shane. 24:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was the reason I had asked. 24:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that you mentioned about putting those waltz and cemeteries. 24:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I take a you did put faults in Holy Cross. 24:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, do you ever remember, and I know we're working 50 years of memory here, but do you ever remember running across father masqueror there or Mr. Story, Mr. Groundskeeper? 24:38 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I remember the, I'm probably might have known the Groundskeeper, but I don't remember his name or anything. 24:46 [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, I'm pretty sure he's possibly passed away by now. 24:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, when we go into cemetery, there's a lot of times we take from the point of taking talk through performance, they show us where the graves are to be at and stuff like that. 24:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, so with Father Maskell and I don't know how much of this you're aware of, we know for a fact that he had buried documents in the ground, a holy cross cemetery. 25:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And we've had people tell us that there are loved ones seem to have been moved from one location to another. 25:17 [SPEAKER_01]: With your experience with those vaults, when you would go into put a vault in, 25:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you think it would be possible for him to have a fault put in and not have a body Yes, it's all it's possible Okay, we used to take we used to take in some of the cemeteries would take the back coat and put into the ground for us instead of us after the log Try pod and change ball and everything to wherever the grave was 25:51 [SPEAKER_03]: We just put a cable around the vault or we'll kill our change up inside the vault to the hooks that set the casket up from the bottom and put them in the ground. 26:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I want to add something here because I'm not sure all the listeners understand what George is saying about the vaults of all is it's made out of metal correct George. 26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: No, what's it. 26:15 [SPEAKER_03]: It's made a concrete way with just the lid and the box is about 25,000 pounds. 26:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And so not everybody uses a ball. 26:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Some people pass get directly into the ground. 26:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Other people here was that was the long time ago. 26:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Back when I was doing it, the law was changing the cemeteries that you had to use at least they what they call a liner. 26:40 [SPEAKER_03]: In other words, that's the cheapest other than wood that you could buy, right, because once you open up a grave, then you go next door to that grave and you open that one up. 26:52 [SPEAKER_03]: the wall, there's like a, maybe about a three inch wall between one grape to another grape. 27:01 [SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes if you had a just a plain ordinary wooden box, that would cause the wall to kill a cave in. 27:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Correct. 27:09 [SPEAKER_03]: They put a stop. 27:10 [SPEAKER_03]: They put a stop to that. 27:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, you have to use a 27:14 [SPEAKER_03]: The only one that's still used that is the Jewish sanctuaries. 27:19 [SPEAKER_03]: There's one that used the wood. 27:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, there are several layers of bolts. 27:27 [SPEAKER_03]: The liner, which has two holes in the bottom, then you go on up the line. 27:33 [SPEAKER_03]: The panel through the bolt company is that you go to. 27:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And the casket, the bottom of the casket, fits into those two holes. 27:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like it holds it together. 27:52 [SPEAKER_03]: No, it sits on what they call four books. 27:57 [SPEAKER_03]: There's what you're used to put that bolt down or to line it down into the grave. 28:02 [SPEAKER_03]: And that, the ask it's set up on top of those hooks, which is about inch and a half two inches. 28:07 [SPEAKER_00]: The that was a lesson. 28:13 [SPEAKER_01]: When you weren't doing the fault company, what other jobs did you have in the area? 28:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember Baltimore. 28:19 [SPEAKER_03]: I used to put dry food or pain to call dry noodle, but just no longer in effect. 28:25 [SPEAKER_03]: And that was basically, at that time, basically it. 28:31 [SPEAKER_00]: George, you may have already said this, but how long did you live on monumental? 28:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and where were you before that in middle river? 28:42 [SPEAKER_03]: To see, you know, we lived in the city while I'm Irish in Park Avenue. 28:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And then after Monumano. 28:50 [SPEAKER_03]: I always lived more than anything. 28:51 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I can't remember the exact order of the world. 28:56 [SPEAKER_03]: That's not exactly what I've lived on. 28:58 [SPEAKER_03]: The kind of street with my mother and my area. 29:03 [SPEAKER_03]: That time husband, where'd you go to school? 29:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I went to school right there on where was it at Calford Street for the first grade. 29:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember the name of the school, but also went to a trans-tillement on the Parisian Park Avenue. 29:18 [SPEAKER_03]: I was just seven years old. 29:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I also went to Roger, your high-end elementary and their high school. 29:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I went to Monday. 29:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Where's that located? 29:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I'd share it with everybody. 29:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Where do you old stadium was? 29:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 29:33 [SPEAKER_00]: We appreciate everything you've shared with us, George. 29:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I'd just like to know what's going on. 29:39 [SPEAKER_03]: What happened? 29:40 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was treated. 29:42 [SPEAKER_03]: The family will get some closure on what happened and why. 30:18 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
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