0:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Whenever I'm not living under the restrictions of an apocalyptic pandemic quarantine, a week rarely goes by, but I don't visit a historical museum of one kind or another. 0:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I've spent the last few years traveling the country coast to coast, and off the coasts, visiting many of the best of them, at least until last February, when COVID changed everything. 0:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Since that time, I've made do with the virtual tours and more books than I've ever thought I could read in a 12 month span. 0:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Lately, I've been calling out local museum guides at some of my favorite places. 0:44 [SPEAKER_01]: In this week, I've asked the curator of one of them to join us on the show. 0:48 [SPEAKER_00]: My name is Susan Hake and I am the curator at Lincoln House National Historic Site in Springfield, Illinois. 0:55 [SPEAKER_01]: The centerpiece of the Lincoln Home National Historic Site is the former home of our 16th President, where he lived with his young family for 17 years. 1:05 [SPEAKER_01]: After moving to the White House in 1861, Abraham and Mary kept this as a rental, with plans of returning after serving in Washington. 1:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Following his assassination in 1865, she refused to come back, and the house was later donated to the state of Illinois. 1:24 [SPEAKER_01]: In the 1970s, the state transferred ownership to the National Park Service. 1:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Eventually, the rest of the neighborhood was added to the museum rounds, and it now includes four city blocks. 1:38 [SPEAKER_01]: near downtown Springfield, which depict the area, as it was when the Lincoln's lived there. 1:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Even with these additions, the Lincoln Home National Historic Site remains one of the smallest holdings in the National Park Service, containing just over 12 acres. 1:58 [SPEAKER_00]: When we are open, when we're not in a little pandemic, we do have a more modern looking visitor center. 2:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we do have two of the houses that are open to the public, the to the neighbors. 2:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was Harriet Dean who lived across the street to the west. 2:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Charles R. who lived across the street to the south. 2:14 [SPEAKER_00]: They have small houses and we've got some permanent exhibits that to get into the Lincoln home. 2:19 [SPEAKER_00]: You do go with a Ranger. 2:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Take you to the whole house. 2:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it the actual home or was it a rebuild? 2:25 [SPEAKER_00]: know that is the actual home. 2:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's on its original foundations houses originally built in 1839. 2:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a much smaller house at the time. 2:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It was only about a story and a half and we shake like a tea and then through the course of the Lincoln living in the house for just over 17 years. 2:42 [SPEAKER_00]: They did a lot of remodeling. 2:43 [SPEAKER_00]: They added on eventually adding on a full second story with all the bedrooms up there and add a little bit. 2:50 [SPEAKER_00]: more formal spaces downstairs are married to do some entertaining Mr Lincoln could meet with political cronies with legal clients think like that. 2:59 [SPEAKER_00]: The house as you see it now is it's 1860 appearance which is right before the Lincoln left to watch it. 3:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you explain to me what brought Lincoln to spring field? 3:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course you've born in Kentucky. 3:13 [SPEAKER_00]: That's one of our most popular and odd visitor questions 3:19 [SPEAKER_00]: 200 miles to the southeast. 3:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But so you're going to Kentucky and his family moved to southern Indiana for a while, what he was very young. 3:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And then eventually his family moved to East Central Illinois near Charleston. 3:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And at that point, we can was 21. 3:34 [SPEAKER_00]: He was never a good farmer. 3:37 [SPEAKER_00]: His father was going to farm. 3:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And he just really wanted to get out of his own. 3:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So he, through friends, had agreed to help 3:45 [SPEAKER_00]: drive a flat boat down the Illinois River to Mississippi River to New Orleans. 3:50 [SPEAKER_00]: with loaded with things for that person to sell. 3:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And in the process of doing this flat boat, he got stuck on a small waterfall in the town of New Salem, Illinois, which is Northwest of Springfield. 4:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the looks of the town, and after he had done his trip down the Mississippi, he came back to New Salem. 4:08 [SPEAKER_00]: He remembered New Salem. 4:09 [SPEAKER_00]: He came back there, lived there for a while. 4:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And while he was there, he met several people who encouraged him to study law on other things. 4:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was befriended by John Todd Stewart, who was setting up a law office in Springfield, Illinois. 4:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And so once Lincoln passed the bar, then John Todd Stewart took Lincoln on his partner and then Lincoln moved to Springfield that way. 4:32 [SPEAKER_01]: How did he end up in the house that is now the park? 4:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It was for sale. 4:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It had been for sale for a while. 4:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And he knew the owner of the Reverend Charles Dressor was the gentleman who built the house in 1839. 4:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And in 1842 Lincoln had actually gone to Reverend Dressers House and asked him to perform Lincoln's wedding ceremony that night to the lovely Miss Mary Todd and Reverend Dresser agreed to it, but Mary sister Elizabeth Mary was living with at the time said they had to get married at a list of the town so he did not get married at his own house, but he must have liked the looks of it because about. 5:12 [SPEAKER_00]: 10 months later, Abraham and Mary agreed to buy the house with the open dress. 5:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's how they landed in the house and they said they added on to it as their family grew and planned to come back. 5:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Was he already in politics by the time he moved into the house? 5:28 [SPEAKER_00]: He was. 5:29 [SPEAKER_00]: He had dabbled actually a little bit when he was still a young man in his 20s in their sale on the ran for office and lost partially because during the campaigns 5:40 [SPEAKER_00]: In the Black Hawk War, he had become a captain in the Illinois militia and had gone off to the Black Hawk War, so he did no campaigning. 5:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the time he got back from his service in the army, but the election was, I think, the next week or something like that. 5:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And he lost to a much more well-known 5:58 [SPEAKER_00]: gentlemen from the area for the Illinois state legislature. 6:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So he had dabbled already. 6:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Once he got to Springfield, he continued to be interested. 6:07 [SPEAKER_00]: He was a very strong supporter of the week party at the time. 6:10 [SPEAKER_00]: His name recognition increased and eventually he ended up running for U.S. Senate lost to Stephen Douglas twice. 6:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And finally, then of course, 1860 was not only for the U.S. presidency, again, against Stephen Douglas, 6:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So he was living in the house when he won the presidency, but he wasn't also, was he also living there when he lost the two Senate runs? 6:36 [SPEAKER_00]: He was, yeah, he did win one term in Congress, the U.S. Congress, he won several terms in the state legislature as well, all living. 6:46 [SPEAKER_01]: We're specifically looking for any other details that you can tell us about what Lincoln's life was like while living at the house. 6:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I think in some ways that surprises people just how average their life was. 6:59 [SPEAKER_00]: This is certainly not it was certainly not a big house. 7:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't a small house. 7:04 [SPEAKER_00]: They're very solidly been a class house. 7:07 [SPEAKER_00]: The Lincoln's had a pretty average. 7:11 [SPEAKER_00]: social life, they may have run in slightly elevated circles, mostly because of Mary's family. 7:17 [SPEAKER_00]: She had pre-sister living in Springfield at the same time, and her oldest sister Elizabeth was married to the son of the first territorial governor of Illinois, and so they were considered high society in Springfield, and they had 7:32 [SPEAKER_00]: parties and balls and gatherings. 7:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And so the Lincoln were invited to those. 7:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So they ran out slightly higher societal circles, but they were pretty solidly middle class. 7:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So what we would consider middle class, they had cow, couple of horses, maybe a pink, everyone's well chicken from the backyard. 7:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Very typical of what was going on in Springfield at the time. 7:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you guys have any artifacts of Lincoln's there or are they all hi to his museum? 7:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, we do. 7:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We have about 100 artifacts that we can directly associate when we can family in Springfield that includes their parlor furniture, which is a nice set of 8:10 [SPEAKER_00]: The hog and the frame with black horse mare on it, those will be almost the entire set has been saved. 8:16 [SPEAKER_00]: We have very Lincoln's cake plate that she would make a lot of occasion to be like dessert. 8:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we have a desk that we can use when he according to the academic the code is when he first set up business for himself. 8:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So we think that was in the mid 1840s. 8:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I think when he and William hardened set up their own office to books marbles that were found in the backyard of the boys with a play with so. 8:39 [SPEAKER_00]: The very domestic gathering of artifacts, but only have one artifact that was signed by Abraham Lincoln that is illegal documents on a stolen black horse, so yeah, different things, no, no clothing though, the clothing did not survive. 8:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So tell me about the black horse, did they ever find it or what was all about. 9:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, actually it was a two gentleman. 9:04 [SPEAKER_00]: This is when Lincoln was working for as with a second law partner at St. Logan and Lincoln, but it's in Lincoln's handwriting. 9:11 [SPEAKER_00]: The horse was stolen and it had been found. 9:14 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a disagreement between the two who actually owned the horse, but yeah, it was resolved in Lincoln's client's favor. 9:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Are there any artifacts from the museum that a normal person probably wouldn't think twice about it? 9:29 [SPEAKER_00]: have a book byography of Black Hawk, the Native American, and we think it's because Lincoln was in the Black Hawk War, and got a lot of interest in biographies. 9:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So we have the biography that Lincoln read about Black Hawk later, that was published after the war. 9:46 [SPEAKER_00]: We've got Alexa 9:48 [SPEAKER_00]: The marbles from the back yard that the Lincoln boys would have lost or dropped down the previous or whatever they would have done. 9:55 [SPEAKER_00]: We've got a bench on the back porch of the Lincoln home. 9:59 [SPEAKER_00]: The one that's actually on the back porch is a reproduction. 10:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But the original was it just, it's a fairly plain wind bench, but it's 70 long. 10:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And according to the carpenter who made it, Lincoln had it specially made. 10:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It'd be 70 long, so he stretched out completely. 10:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to take a nap. 10:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's an interesting little take and what Lincoln liked. 10:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that you had mentioned the desk that he had when he had his law practice, so that desk would have probably have seen all of the events that happened around his law practice with that have also been his desk the huge of used while in Springfield while he was a part of Congress. 10:37 [SPEAKER_00]: We assume yes that it was probably at the law office, which is a block away, eventually it's a very small desk. 10:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I does have a set of pigeon holes across on the top and the thing, but it's still. 10:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, golly, it's maybe. 10:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, three and a half feet wide and not much deeper. 10:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's very possible. 10:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Lincoln would have brought that desk home. 10:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It'd be his volume of work was such that this desk would never have been able to hold all of that. 11:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And not that Lincoln was the neatest in keeping up an office, the entirety in fact, it's fairly disgusting. 11:10 [SPEAKER_00]: The way his office was described, that there was so much dirt in the corners that we had started this crowd. 11:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But so he probably brought the desk home eventually. 11:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, a lot of his 11:19 [SPEAKER_00]: correspondence we put in political legal or personal email written some of his speeches. 11:24 [SPEAKER_00]: The thing we don't know, it was eventually discarded. 11:29 [SPEAKER_00]: There was either a broken leg or on the desk, or the ink kept sliding off the top. 11:36 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no stop for ink well. 11:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So it probably slid off the desk a lot and onto the floor. 11:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And so the athlete, the document that we had to connect with Lincoln, 11:48 [SPEAKER_00]: She was tired of it making a mess and Lincoln was seeing carrying the pieces with the where we think maybe one of the legs had also broken. 11:56 [SPEAKER_00]: He's carrying the pieces out to a burn pile of some sort when one of the neighbors saw him and said, oh, hang on, Mr. Lincoln, I can fix that and Lincoln handed their words at a door to take it and then that gentleman's widow after he died, then gave it back to the house. 12:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a very short 12:14 [SPEAKER_00]: connection, which is nice. 12:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but we don't exactly when that happened when they actually were trashing over desk to play. 12:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So we don't know that he wrote necessarily some of his more famous speeches like the House of I and speech in 1860 or his first in New Argrill. 12:29 [SPEAKER_00]: We know he drafted the law. 12:30 [SPEAKER_00]: He was in Springfield, but probably not on that desk. 12:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It probably was going by then. 12:35 [SPEAKER_01]: You have mentioned the cake pan. 12:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Would she have used that to prepare maybe cakes for visitors? 12:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely. 12:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Mary was very fond of entertaining probably part of a lot of her upbringing in Lexington Techie for father was a very prominent business man. 12:51 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the bank was president of the local University, Transylvania University, by the way, which still does exist. 12:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So they had they always had a lot of people in their house and were always entertaining and Mary continued that in Springfield. 13:07 [SPEAKER_00]: ran around in each other's social circles and then definitely one sister Lincoln became a prominent politician and Mary was constantly entertaining so she was making a lot of desserts, borrowing her sisters and her sister's servants to help out with that. 13:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah there was always a lot going on in the house. 13:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And I assume that when he was running, especially for president, they probably had a lot of people over to try to get them to go along with their bid for presidency, do you think that's accurate? 13:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Mr. Lincoln was not unanimously elected by the Republican party at their convention. 13:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So there was a lot of campaigning. 13:43 [SPEAKER_00]: The interesting thing is Mr. Lincoln did not go out in campaign like we think of now, but yes, to the game to him, especially a lot of reporters came because. 13:52 [SPEAKER_00]: People didn't know maybe outside of Illinois, maybe Kentucky, Indiana, Closer Midwestern area, people on East, Dr. S. Goofball out west, coming out of the wilderness was still living in a lock cabin, wearing homespond, you know, just the total country bump in it. 14:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of newspapers, especially from New York and Boston sent out reporters and artists and I sketched the house and they described the house and to try and dispel the image of Lincoln as the country bump in. 14:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, do you know much about Lincoln's last time in the house? 14:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I assume it was before he moved into Washington. 14:30 [SPEAKER_00]: We know quite a bit about their last couple of weeks. 14:33 [SPEAKER_00]: They had a large party to say goodbye. 14:35 [SPEAKER_00]: A farewell reception that it was in the hundreds of people that came, which is pretty amazing for a 3100 square foot house. 14:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Before they left, they were giving things to family and friends to hold for them. 14:58 [SPEAKER_00]: They moved this the parlour set that I was talking about. 15:00 [SPEAKER_00]: They moved that across the street and to their bachelor neighbors. 15:04 [SPEAKER_00]: It didn't very key to the bachelor because he had the space. 15:06 [SPEAKER_00]: They moved that furniture up into his attic. 15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Her sisters were helping. 15:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Correct. 15:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Think like that. 15:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Robert was trying to figure out what was going on. 15:14 [SPEAKER_00]: He was away at school. 15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: He said a finishing school in Vermont for a while. 15:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So just lots going on, and they moved out about three days before they left for Washington, completely moved to a local hotel. 15:26 [SPEAKER_00]: They had already rented the house out, so I think this was just a chance for them to get out finally and let the new tenants move in and get settled before they left the Washington. 15:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And they never returned back to the homeless that I care. 15:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the family never came back. 15:43 [SPEAKER_00]: This wasn't like today's president. 15:45 [SPEAKER_00]: They can just check home for a long weekend or whatever. 15:47 [SPEAKER_00]: The Lincoln's plan to come back confidently, Mr. Lincoln obviously never did. 15:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Mary came back to Springfield, Robert came back, not to live, but he would come back and visit periodically. 15:57 [SPEAKER_00]: But Mary decided she could not live in the house. 16:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It was too hard for her to live in the house if she was in with her sister down the street. 16:04 [SPEAKER_01]: During your time with the museum, have you found anything in the house that previous generations weren't aware of that speaks to Lincoln's time there? 16:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't here when it was found, but the house underwent a massive restoration in 1987 and 1988. 16:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But during the course of the restoration, all of the sightings pulled off the outlet of the house to try and preserve the plaster on the inside. 16:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So all of the sightings came off the outside and then. 16:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Everything that was in the walls, of course there's no insulation. 16:36 [SPEAKER_00]: They basically somebody took a shot back into sat there and sucked everything out of the walls and then put them in bags and then grad students in the University of Nebraska and went through and found. 16:48 [SPEAKER_00]: hundreds and hundreds of little things in the floor and in the walls. 16:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the neatest things they found was in the kitchen wall where there had been a fireplace of well large cooking fireplace and was later then closed in and they had those in the wall and created out of anyway. 17:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But in where there had been a mouse hole on the floor, they found six or seven documents. 17:11 [SPEAKER_00]: including a letter that had one of Lincoln's front checks to his landlady in Washington when he was a congressman and some letters asking for favors asking for help for getting a patent, all these different things. 17:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And what's interesting about those documents, the ones that have dates on them, this was about three days after Eddie Lincoln's second time before. 17:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And Robert would have been almost three at that point. 17:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think he was just forward and wanting attention. 17:39 [SPEAKER_00]: He took some of daddy's papers and shoved it in the household. 17:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So those are found during the restoration. 17:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That's been really fun to see. 17:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Did the university of Nebraska keep all of that or do you have it at the museum? 17:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, we have all of it. 17:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We have some mummified mice as well that were found 17:55 [SPEAKER_01]: and you probably let them keep those? 17:57 [SPEAKER_00]: No, we have them. 17:58 [SPEAKER_00]: They're disgusting, but we have them. 17:59 [SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned finding things like marbles underneath the backyard, how housing. 18:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm wondering how extensively that area had been excavated. 18:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I know from past experience with more ancient excavations that toilet and garbage dumps are often the best sick sites has the backyard ever been properly excavated. 18:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, back in the 1950s, the state did a fairly extensive archaeological survey of like the back. 18:27 [SPEAKER_00]: of third to almost half of the backyard because the barns and the privy were no longer standing and they were wanting to rebuild those. 18:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So there was an extensive thing. 18:37 [SPEAKER_00]: They found three different privy sites, excavated them down to the bottom, got great stuff in there and they also then found the foundations for the old barn and wood shed. 18:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's all been rebuilt. 18:49 [SPEAKER_00]: A privy was moved in from 18:51 [SPEAKER_00]: 60 miles away on to then set one of those sites. 18:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, we found, oh, golly. 18:57 [SPEAKER_00]: We shot the marbles, lots of broken dishes of plates and last where I call it lots of bones. 19:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So we know a lot about what we can tour eating and it was a very what we would consider very typical Midwestern diet. 19:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was chicken, beef, and pork. 19:13 [SPEAKER_00]: very much and keeping with what is difficult. 19:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of the fun things, a couple of the bowls are chewed on by a dog, the Lincoln's did have a dog. 19:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the time they were living in Springfield, the most famous of them is the one that was there right before they left the Washington. 19:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Same as Fido. 19:32 [SPEAKER_00]: He was a yellow mud. 19:34 [SPEAKER_00]: He was very not scripted off, but very much love. 19:36 [SPEAKER_01]: If the walls of the house could talk what would they tell us about Lincoln at this specific phase in his life, that other later houses might not. 19:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of people don't realize she was very much of a workaholic. 19:49 [SPEAKER_00]: People talked about working late into the night. 19:52 [SPEAKER_00]: They could, they'd look up in the window of his bedroom and they'd see a candle still burning because his bedroom was in the front of the house. 19:58 [SPEAKER_00]: He was a workaholic, but he also was, he loved playing with his kids. 20:03 [SPEAKER_00]: He was a noted wrestler, especially in his younger days. 20:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, 20:08 [SPEAKER_00]: wrestling on the floor with this boy think about it and what we call the sitting with would have been the family. 20:14 [SPEAKER_00]: He's on the floor. 20:15 [SPEAKER_00]: He's wrestling with his boys, the dogs, there, there's cats, there. 20:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure Mary Lincoln's destroying him or hands and whatever can just try to. 20:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that we want to bring Lincoln down from the monuments, the Lincoln monuments. 20:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It just to try and make him a little more human, it was very much a family home. 20:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so messy. 20:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, dog barking, cats going surfing on the carpet, typically family home. 20:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Lincoln is one of those people with multiple legends, almost like he lived multiple lives. 20:45 [SPEAKER_01]: You have the Lincoln, the champion wrestler, the Lincoln, the honest lawyer, the soldier, the boy, and the law cabin, the commander and chief of a nation that is breaking point, all of those images represent different moments in his life, which Lincoln lived in this house. 21:08 [SPEAKER_00]: average guy just trying to make his way into the world. 21:11 [SPEAKER_00]: They moved into the house when he was, what was he was 35, had been married for enough like two years, three more sons of a born in the house, their second son died in the house, a lawyer and a politician, and I hate to say all around good guy, but that's, yes, this is average. 21:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a Lincoln and the Lincoln Memorial 21:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Susan. 21:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there anything else you'd like to say about Lincoln before I let you go? 21:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I know one of the questions we get frequently is, is that the color of the house? 21:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, it is. 21:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a tannish brown. 21:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It was called Quaker Brown by a lot of people in the press. 21:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It was at 1.2. 21:51 [SPEAKER_00]: It was painted white during its history and for some reason people really fixate on that. 21:56 [SPEAKER_00]: But wasn't it white? 21:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Has it been white since the 1940s? 21:59 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's what people were in the 22:05 [SPEAKER_00]: We do have photos. 22:06 [SPEAKER_00]: We've got Google Arts and Culture virtual tour. 22:09 [SPEAKER_00]: There's also a link to an exhibit that shows you close-ups of a lot of the link in our effect, including the bench that I talked about, the original bench, the parlor furniture, Mary's cake plate, so that's all on our website as well.
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