0:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Looking for a fun way to take a break during your day, Solitaire Clash, that's CLASH, takes classic solitaire and gives it a whole new twist. 0:07 [SPEAKER_02]: It's fast, skill-based, and packed with exciting features that keep every round feeling fresh. 0:12 [SPEAKER_02]: In those in-between moments waiting for a ride, between tasks, or just needing a breather, Solitaire Clash makes it easy to relax, refocus, and have a little fun. 0:21 [SPEAKER_02]: It's simple to jump into. 0:22 [SPEAKER_02]: satisfying to play and always ready when you are, so take a moment for yourself, play Solitaire Clash, that's CL-A-S-H. 1:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back, everyone. 1:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Jim is not going to be with us today. 1:02 [SPEAKER_01]: She's not feeling very well. 1:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's going to be Mike and I, Mike, let's go ahead and jump into episode four. 1:09 [SPEAKER_01]: What's the first time soon? 1:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 1:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks, Shane. 1:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that'd be back first. 1:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes, damn, we're looking at Sharon May and episode four. 1:17 [SPEAKER_03]: And we're looking at, well, 30. 1:20 [SPEAKER_03]: right at the very getting when she starts talking, she's talking about he was driving to the cemetery when they were digging up all the evidence and she's explaining very plain boyedly that she was driving her right convertible and it was landing all this stuff and that irrelevant information, overly specific information that the listener doesn't need to know about. 1:41 [SPEAKER_03]: She could just say, 1:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, we were driving to the cemetery. 1:44 [SPEAKER_03]: He's the evidence being dug up. 1:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Talk to you to say, but that thing that she wanted to come across is she's open. 1:51 [SPEAKER_03]: She's spawned. 1:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I was having a great time. 1:53 [SPEAKER_03]: The time was out or whatever. 1:54 [SPEAKER_03]: And my convertible. 1:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was on my way to see that, though, was kind of a sign of deception. 2:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, I'm open. 2:01 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to give you what you need. 2:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to get through all these questions, honestly. 2:05 [SPEAKER_03]: So it was kind of interesting to see that. 2:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a really good point. 2:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I like how you worried that she was being over specific. 2:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember when I first watched it and I first saw the interview with Sharon, I thought that it was going to awkward exchange. 2:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, why are you telling us about this beautiful, convertible and how excited you were that had nothing to do with what we're talking about? 2:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing to do with it and it's just totally irrelevant. 2:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, she wants to be open and handed and be like, hey, but it's a serious matter. 2:33 [SPEAKER_03]: She's going to draft the evidence being dug up and she's kind of making it about herself. 2:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly. 2:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Is your next time staying for Bob Sharon as well? 2:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're all, but we've got to buy a better punch on her. 2:43 [SPEAKER_03]: She's very interesting person during that during this interview in episode four. 2:48 [SPEAKER_03]: At 1250, 2:50 [SPEAKER_03]: she's explaining the box is coming out of the hole when they were digging up and she's being downplaying everything she's saying all day will wet and just her tone the way she is saying that that's what you listen to just downplaying it's not important they will wet they had to be dried out they had to be sorted and then she went right into thing but 3:15 [SPEAKER_03]: that he molested these kids. 3:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And then she ends with a shoulder shrug. 3:19 [SPEAKER_03]: So she's being buried specific about there was nothing pointing to math, though, about molesting these children. 3:26 [SPEAKER_03]: But then she ended with a shrug, which one of the indicators we look forward when we're talking to someone during an interview is verbal certainty, which is very certain that was nothing there with to do with math, though. 3:39 [SPEAKER_03]: But then she shrug, it's not today. 3:41 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, really. 3:42 [SPEAKER_03]: They're what? 3:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So the fact that she's shrugging in that kind of groups against the certainty that she's speaking vocally. 3:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 3:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Good. 3:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Ripple's dirty thing. 3:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 3:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Master, though, it was nothing in there that pointed to him. 3:58 [SPEAKER_03]: And then she shrubs. 3:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Not sure, really. 4:00 [SPEAKER_03]: So that was, that was go on and that right at the end as she stops talking about molesting the kid. 4:06 [SPEAKER_03]: So at 1312, 4:10 [SPEAKER_03]: when asked about one of graphic herial being found, she stated that she had no recollection that they found any, maybe we did, I just don't remember. 4:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that something should be, that she should have known, she really didn't remember. 4:27 [SPEAKER_03]: They could have, I just don't remember. 4:30 [SPEAKER_03]: That's an indicator of another deception that they can't remember significant back. 4:35 [SPEAKER_03]: or detail, it's just flat, they have to emphasize that these response, she gives a classic exception. 4:41 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of sharing may respond to a really quick and small, especially a facial and her body movement. 4:48 [SPEAKER_03]: So you really have to look to tell the listeners, they really have to look and be with these timestamps that I mentioned, you have to really feed them because it's easier for me to feed them, because it's what I do. 4:59 [SPEAKER_03]: but when you, you may have to be wide and watch it again, but they're there and you'll see them, like take you a couple times by the way. 5:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, there it is. 5:07 [SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that caught me when I watched this episode for the first time is how overly specific she is in terms of her memory of driving her convertible to the site. 5:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And then suddenly she does not recall if there was pornographic 5:24 [SPEAKER_01]: or material, definitely in the whole, like in my mind, I would think someone would remember if that's in the whole, not necessarily that you just drove your brand new convertible and how you felt just driving that convertible. 5:40 [SPEAKER_01]: But it just seems like a very significant fact that I don't see someone forget it. 5:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah. 5:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And as she was saying, while she was landing a convertible, her pitch rate was up and down, her voice, she was getting this. 5:52 [SPEAKER_03]: When people do that to try to emphasize, I'm excited, believe me, my voice is, I was driving my rent, convertible, and it just goes up and down like that. 6:01 [SPEAKER_03]: is another indicator of deception. 6:03 [SPEAKER_03]: She's just full of those indicators of deception. 6:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, she's very interesting to watch. 6:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so you can move on to the next one at 13, 25. 6:10 [SPEAKER_03]: When I went to the right one, Ryan passed in her question. 6:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have a question written down, but it's 13, 25. 6:18 [SPEAKER_01]: In the keepers, Ryan is stating to Sharon May, but the information they were given had to do with actual photographs that were in the hall. 6:30 [SPEAKER_03]: And she's fighting her lip at the time of an indicator of deception, because her mind's trying to attempt to suppress her speech, so your mind's saying, don't stay anymore by your lip, don't continue talking, so that's what she says, and it's followed by a delayed response, which she had, having time to think about what she wants to stay and also fighting her lip, too. 6:54 [SPEAKER_03]: That's an interesting one to watch. 6:57 [SPEAKER_03]: It's at 1325. 6:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's very interesting. 6:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 7:00 [SPEAKER_03]: 1331, not soon after that one about biting the lip. 7:06 [SPEAKER_03]: She's asked about one of graphic photos of the girl's breast. 7:10 [SPEAKER_03]: It should repeat. 7:11 [SPEAKER_03]: part of the question when he asked about photograph she says photograph and that's another indicator of deception. 7:18 [SPEAKER_03]: This gives her mind. 7:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Even though it's just a few seconds, refer to repeat that. 7:27 [SPEAKER_03]: It's her mind more time, process than answer. 7:31 [SPEAKER_03]: That will be acceptable. 7:32 [SPEAKER_03]: So she had, so when she ran, there's something like, they were pitches, they were so-and-so said 7:42 [SPEAKER_03]: and then she went into the whole thing, I don't know, I would've known if they were photographs, but totally gives her more time to get into the question and think about what she's saying. 7:52 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the thought process behind that when you repeat a question, I'll try to question. 7:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And in your experience, do people normally do that if they're trying to not be truthful? 8:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, absolutely. 8:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I have run into people that will be like, you're asking a simple question, like, hey, where were you at 130 yesterday? 8:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And they'll repeat back the whole thing like, where was I at 130 yesterday? 8:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And that just gives them that little extra time to make up a lie to set B to set B. 8:19 [SPEAKER_03]: be deceptive. 8:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure. 8:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that makes total sense pretty interesting. 8:23 [SPEAKER_03]: So Sharon May I have to tell you she had a lot, get a lot of my facial expressions, saying this clip. 8:29 [SPEAKER_03]: She, a lot of, hemp. 8:33 [SPEAKER_03]: She doesn't want to be there when she makes the space you can tear. 8:36 [SPEAKER_03]: She curses her lips together in a rise, and her cry grows and goes up and her head tilts to the thighs. 8:42 [SPEAKER_03]: That's a classic look of contempt. 8:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, she doesn't really like these questions. 8:49 [SPEAKER_03]: She doesn't like being in the situation. 8:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Whenever she, along with the time that she'll do up, 8:54 [SPEAKER_03]: The question that she gives this look like, you'll be able to see it in that 41. 8:59 [SPEAKER_03]: And once you see this one, you'll, if you go back through the clip, you'll see it along. 9:05 [SPEAKER_03]: So, it's micropacial content at the end of your, when she, when he mentions photos, like she just gives this look like again, if I have to answer this again, you can see her do that. 9:17 [SPEAKER_01]: For the next time stamp, it's at 16 minutes and 40 seconds. 9:21 [SPEAKER_03]: She's got a delayed response followed by a deep thigh when asked. 9:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Mass though was guilty of safety. 9:30 [SPEAKER_01]: life can get overwhelming, and talking 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today. 10:36 [SPEAKER_03]: So she really take a long time to think about the dance that and then she gives herself a deep thigh. 10:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Because when you're being detected, you want to get more oxygen to body response. 10:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I have to get more oxygen to my blood so I can think about what's going on. 10:52 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's kind of a threat option. 10:54 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to take this deep thigh and I'm going to relax. 10:58 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going to try to think about 11:01 [SPEAKER_03]: going to try to think about what I tell them, what will be acceptable, but that's a really good one to watch or do that, the delayed response followed by the deep side. 11:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And at 1737. 11:18 [SPEAKER_03]: When asked if the state, the attorney's office ran into parents of the church, she moved away from Ryan, as wait from the interviewer, and gave a delayed response in her voice pitch change. 11:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, that's the deception. 11:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, when you have more than two definite scientists, he's not being truthful during that point. 11:38 [SPEAKER_03]: He very pronounced you'll be able to see all three of them. 11:42 [SPEAKER_03]: She looks the way towards the window, then she takes a long time to hand the, then her voice bitch changes and you'll hear that change and all classic times of being deducted, pretty pretty textbook for that one too. 11:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so what you're saying is by her doing that would make you believe that wasn't a truth for answer that she was then going to do. 12:02 [SPEAKER_03]: She probably knew, and this is my opinion, she probably knew that 12:06 [SPEAKER_03]: who was interference ran, and she looked away and said, I can't make that when you can make eye contact with someone like that and you look away, that 100% being disturbed. 12:17 [SPEAKER_03]: And when you can't cross the thought right away, most people would be like, no, we didn't run into parent. 12:23 [SPEAKER_03]: There was no one to come right out. 12:26 [SPEAKER_03]: If you know back then that's 12:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And when she looked away and had that long-delete response, being betrayed by him, change, yes, it's not good for her. 12:35 [SPEAKER_03]: So she was definitely being deceptive, and she probably did know about interbearance being run. 12:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Though I would say that one was a good example of deception her being deceptive. 12:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And at 1833, when she stated at the allegations were made, 12:52 [SPEAKER_03]: about Nashville. 12:53 [SPEAKER_03]: She, if they asked her for the allegations, she said she, she would look at it. 12:58 [SPEAKER_03]: If she had good, it got charged. 13:01 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the straightforward advice and be it. 13:03 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what she said. 13:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Right? 13:05 [SPEAKER_03]: So her verbal message tells the Matt physical gesture once again. 13:09 [SPEAKER_03]: She's nodding, no while she's saying, while she's saying that the straightforward advice and be 13:16 [SPEAKER_03]: But once again, you're telling one thing, but your mind knows that it's not true. 13:22 [SPEAKER_03]: So body automatically, the thing that gives you the know. 13:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 13:27 [SPEAKER_03]: He just, she's like, they know, and her mind by her verbal messages, left and straightforward as I can be. 13:33 [SPEAKER_03]: that makes total sense I can definitely see how someone's mannerisms wouldn't follow up or they would be more truthful than what they are being verbal if she was saying that the straight board as I can be she should be nodding yes that the straight board as I can be not saying no makes perfect sense to me yeah one thing i forgot to mention throughout that clip now now the time of 13:55 [SPEAKER_03]: be under extreme stress and falsifying that got her and if you see sharing while she's talking is actually good light lighting in that clip out of the interview where you can see it's almost like wrote like had brought it out or it's on the you can see it's mostly on the right side. 14:14 [SPEAKER_03]: and it's extremely, and you have to see what she turned and don't, and I'll listen as well as they know that the ligament and our neck, no, you can tell the difference. 14:22 [SPEAKER_03]: You can see this crotted eye or like I said, it's almost rope-like and thick. 14:28 [SPEAKER_03]: and when she turned and turned away the light that you can see it, you know, polishing neck battery means her blood crushes up and she's under an extreme amount of stress right there. 14:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So throughout throughout that, taken, the listing is can look for that. 14:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Especially with the window behind her, you can see it and it's a classic kind of stress and that her blood crushes now and she's very uncomfortable being there. 14:53 [SPEAKER_01]: After Jim and I started doing this podcast to further discuss Kathy's case and the abuse surrounding this entire scenario, we actually reached out to Sharon to see if she would like to do a podcast with us and we explained that we would be respectful and just allow her to give her own insights and opinions and everything like that. 15:15 [SPEAKER_03]: but she refused only refused to do it as she's still in the Baltimore yeah she's in that she's still in the area though it could be it a number of things that always the money question would pay off this is my opinion she could have been paid by the captain she wanted to pay it 15:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Either way, whatever she had to say in terms of her memory and clearly there's deception going on. 15:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm so glad that we were able to discuss this part and what you caught because now we can actually put timestamps and expressions into what we've all already thought is that you're not being honest. 15:51 [SPEAKER_01]: We can't we've not been able to say exact reasons why until now with your help. 15:58 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think everyone who watches the keepers feels like she's not being for the office about it. 16:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and she's not very good at showing up and her indicated that because like I said, I think in the first time we talked about as you try, and I think they're involuntarily and they're involuntary and they're going to come up, can try best you can. 16:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a feeling that the creators of the keepers went to interview her. 16:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I have this feeling that she didn't know the full extent of the questions that they were going to ask or the knowledge that they had. 16:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 16:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's probably why we see her being so forthcoming in terms of her expressions, showing her frustrations, and being able to catch all of that because she likely didn't know what she 16:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And I say that because I know that when they sat down with the detectives, those detectives also did not know all of the information that the filmmakers had. 17:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So you could see during that interview that they were, oh, you know about that. 17:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So that was that was like my what I got gathered from the interview with Sharon May. 17:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't think that. 17:14 [SPEAKER_01]: She would have agreed to the interview of she knew why how in depth those questions were going to be. 17:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the good thing is that they're not knowing it was better for me to see these indicators. 17:24 [SPEAKER_03]: They're being candid. 17:26 [SPEAKER_03]: So she owned, they she demanded to know the question. 17:29 [SPEAKER_03]: But boy, she asked she could have had scripted responses. 17:33 [SPEAKER_03]: She could have gotten all our stacks together and made up more stories. 17:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure. 17:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, what really happened. 17:38 [SPEAKER_03]: But so it was good to be. 17:40 [SPEAKER_03]: But for me to look care for that way, not knowing what was going to be asked, could just... 17:45 [SPEAKER_03]: They just glowed out. 17:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there were definitely no cover up. 17:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, definitely no cover. 17:50 [SPEAKER_03]: but to see he's very animated in her facial expression. 17:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And like I said, you'll see that contempt facial expression. 17:58 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot, the lips, we used to get the eyes kind of twins. 18:00 [SPEAKER_03]: He just looks mad and you'll see that in its quick. 18:03 [SPEAKER_03]: But everybody will get the idea that they're way of showing that she doesn't want to be here. 18:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Before we move on to the next exercise, I wanted to say a little short from anything. 18:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Whenever I see a red convertible now, 18:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I always think back to my frustration, I'm that interview. 18:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 18:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, I read convertible. 18:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and now I will do, I know. 18:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. 18:27 [SPEAKER_03]: It was just the funny that the way not talking about that. 18:32 [SPEAKER_03]: What does this have to do with any? 18:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. 18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Out of the shadows is sponsored by Best Feans, one of the things that I love about True Prime is that the further you dig into a story, the more layers you are in cover. 18:46 [SPEAKER_01]: That's part of what I love about puzzle game Best Feans too, the more I play, more fun it gets, reaching each new level feels like uncovering a new layer in a story. 18:58 [SPEAKER_01]: One you get to take part in, and the best part is the longer you play Best Feans, the 19:06 [SPEAKER_01]: When I need to get my mind off the world and hard to hear stories, I play best feet. 19:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I play every night and since my game is linked to my Facebook, I compete with friends to reach a higher level. 19:18 [SPEAKER_01]: When you start playing, make sure to add me on Facebook. 19:21 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his house, he's just showing two, two indicated for him, went out, he knew by the math below with a very delayed response, and he mentioned whatever years ago, but it was a really delayed response. 20:27 [SPEAKER_03]: He didn't know what to say, he didn't want to say if he knew him really well. 20:31 [SPEAKER_03]: So he just waited, thought about it, and then who would off. 20:34 [SPEAKER_03]: And he kicked, he also gave the hand wave, just used his hand wave as he was talking. 20:39 [SPEAKER_03]: That I'm done. 20:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know. 20:41 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to talk to you and just wave them off. 20:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wait. 20:43 [SPEAKER_03]: So that was the only thing that I had on him because it wasn't very long. 20:47 [SPEAKER_03]: But both as a delayed respond deception and the hand wave was just a dismissive gesture. 20:52 [SPEAKER_03]: But anyway, that was a preface for me. 20:55 [SPEAKER_03]: We can go on a tapestote deck, probably the longest one, and it involves mostly an edga. 21:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so episode six, we're going to be talking primarily about edga, and to the first time date when the interview stopped, thought it was Ryan, and the first observation I noticed was the stuffed animal. 21:18 [SPEAKER_01]: This time stamp is two minutes and 18 seconds. 21:21 [SPEAKER_03]: What's with the stuffed 21:24 [SPEAKER_03]: So, up the animal, do the characters that you don't have to beat up the animals, it can be anything that comes the person down, the person at ease, but it's thingyled the traumatic event in the person's life. 21:39 [SPEAKER_03]: They need to be sued, they need to be surrounded by things that comfort them. 21:46 [SPEAKER_03]: So that was interesting, it's the so many child-like stuffed animals around the room. 21:53 [SPEAKER_03]: and you can look it up, it's pretty characteristic of someone that's been to a traumatic event like that, especially somewhere else alone like he did. 22:01 [SPEAKER_01]: He actually didn't live alone. 22:03 [SPEAKER_01]: He's married, but the wife was not at home when he agreed to be interviewed. 22:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And I say that just because of the kind of like, with all of the stuff animals and I believe they had a mattress on the floor, it was just a weird, yeah, the back 22:22 [SPEAKER_03]: it was living alone, they get fired, but Matt was in the corner, it's surrounded by stuffed animals, yeah. 22:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, he was still, he was, again, stuffed animals in a kind of an unkepped place to look like, and it was couldn't felt a little bit of a boarding issue. 22:38 [SPEAKER_03]: No stuffed animals, which is another emotional issue in itself, that alone, just a observation, right off the bat, that I was like, Sky's pen to something. 22:46 [SPEAKER_03]: To have them sitting on the floor like that around the mattress, instead of a bonus shelf 22:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, very strange. 22:55 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, at 259, when he's shown Matt's pitcher and asked, do we know as if he knows who he is and he responds, Matt's goal, infinitely, he begins to self-suivate by face touching. 23:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So he's struggling to say, I think it's safe. 23:13 [SPEAKER_03]: which is a stress indicator, but it's just the way to calm. 23:17 [SPEAKER_03]: This is all right, and then the increased brave, the increased breathing rate got it. 23:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I want to emphasize on the increased breathing, and I know people will say, he's got breathing problems. 23:31 [SPEAKER_03]: not what this is. 23:32 [SPEAKER_03]: There's two different types. 23:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, when someone has issues with their breathing from a medical issue, it's deep. 23:38 [SPEAKER_03]: It's from the chest. 23:40 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't breathe. 23:41 [SPEAKER_03]: You need an oxygen mask. 23:43 [SPEAKER_03]: It's that type of breathing. 23:45 [SPEAKER_03]: So what we call the type of yeast doing, he's bursting his lip and he's blowing out of his lips. 23:50 [SPEAKER_03]: And that we call it a fish out of water. 23:53 [SPEAKER_03]: So this guy is the 23:59 [SPEAKER_03]: It's this breathing in master. 24:01 [SPEAKER_03]: He's doing it the whole time. 24:02 [SPEAKER_03]: It just comes out of nowhere. 24:03 [SPEAKER_03]: And you'll see the different clips that he's spying. 24:06 [SPEAKER_03]: But when he gets this breath indicated, he gets this stressful situation, this breathing comes back. 24:13 [SPEAKER_03]: And he needs more oxygen in his body because he's getting stressed out. 24:18 [SPEAKER_03]: which can also be a kind of deception. 24:20 [SPEAKER_03]: But one of those things I mentioned earlier last episode or last time we talked, it's called the Double Dipper, and it could be either stress or deception. 24:28 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's the gulping of it, the first thing of lips that's different, it's from a medical issue. 24:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And when he shown Kathy's picture, after they showed a mask on his picture, he'd take 24:42 [SPEAKER_03]: The biggest one is one of the biggest exaggerated swallow's hard swallow's that had the Atlas Dean someone take. 24:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, even in my whole time doing it, and this was a huge one. 24:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Could Bailey, I think he almost choked. 24:54 [SPEAKER_03]: He took it, such a hard, had swallow. 24:56 [SPEAKER_03]: When he saw Kathy's picture and they asked him to know her and he said, Kathy, and that swallow was just a made thing like East Dead. 25:05 [SPEAKER_03]: I was like an oh no moment. 25:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And as well as the increased breathing started up again. 25:12 [SPEAKER_03]: It's she goes this hand fidgeting with a rubber band. 25:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was one, I wish I could find out because at the end, they show them putting it down. 25:21 [SPEAKER_03]: And I wish I could know if he fidgeted with that rubber band the whole time they were talking to them. 25:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, it didn't, but sometimes it's both hands doing stuff. 25:31 [SPEAKER_03]: But I wonder if he kept picking it up and fidgeting with it. 25:34 [SPEAKER_03]: That'd be interesting to know. 25:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Because that's a stress and decayed out that he's very uncomfortable. 25:38 [SPEAKER_03]: It's called exaggerated, it's called fidgeting. 25:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we could, we can have Gemma ask the camera man. 25:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah. 25:48 [SPEAKER_03]: So, doing something like that, having something in your hand, comforting thing, it takes your mind off the subject, you're being talked, you're being asked, even just for a few seconds, they can give you clarity of mind, like, or adding you to think of something so it sued you. 26:01 [SPEAKER_03]: That was at 432, and he was fidgeting with the rubber bed. 26:05 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it just shows him putting it down, or picking it up, but that's why I wanted to know if he had it in the most of the time. 26:13 [SPEAKER_03]: That 45, he gives the baby to the bank yet. 26:17 [SPEAKER_03]: What asked about the police? 26:19 [SPEAKER_03]: He just was irrelevant and just gave just an answer that I didn't even make sense. 26:24 [SPEAKER_03]: He was just like, unassed about the police. 26:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Like the day tell, what did they think? 26:30 [SPEAKER_03]: He just gave up a relevant answer, a basic thing. 26:35 [SPEAKER_03]: at 445. 26:37 [SPEAKER_03]: And if I put team Ryan asked him to you know why they've been to do what at least visited you his eyes got really wide open eyes. 26:45 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a stress, oh no, and crap, what are they going to ask? 26:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And then he begins to touch his space to get. 26:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, a self-s soothing gesture. 26:53 [SPEAKER_03]: He's got to calm down. 26:55 [SPEAKER_03]: What are they going to ask me at home? 26:57 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm really stressed out. 26:58 [SPEAKER_03]: So he had a lot of threatening the cadence. 27:01 [SPEAKER_03]: But as we go down the list, she'll see how they get more in-depth. 27:06 [SPEAKER_03]: At 531, when Anthony come over with blood in your shirt, he gave an exaggerated yarn. 27:13 [SPEAKER_03]: This one you have to really look for, but an exaggerated yarn, the stretch and the 27:30 [SPEAKER_03]: So he, it gives you a little more time. 27:34 [SPEAKER_03]: It's one of those things, again, that give you a little more, and it's just a response to a stressful question or being deceptive. 27:41 [SPEAKER_03]: You'll start that yarn like I do, what? 27:43 [SPEAKER_03]: And then just shut it off. 27:45 [SPEAKER_03]: That's interesting to see. 27:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's really quick. 27:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll make that great of yarn. 27:49 [SPEAKER_03]: You have to watch for it. 27:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Michael open, then shut. 27:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And at 16 or 4, cannot remember, 28:00 [SPEAKER_03]: significant fact about when they asked him about how he hit his hand, when they asked him how he did it, he didn't know. 28:07 [SPEAKER_03]: And again, followed by that answer, it was another exaggerated yon, it's a small opening, a doubt of the yon cropping, but then he ended, and which is another 28:28 [SPEAKER_03]: But this one's really important. 28:30 [SPEAKER_03]: And this is my observation, my opinion of this. 28:35 [SPEAKER_03]: This is called the behavior cluster word what I'm going to explain and also known as the mission cluster. 28:42 [SPEAKER_03]: So the mission cluster is, he was self-steew thing. 28:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Notice that in the clip at 639 is, I think his left hand won in the shape of an L, a bias there, and down along his jawline. 28:58 [SPEAKER_03]: broken his mouth in his chin area with his dominant hand, and also he had wide open eyes during it. 29:06 [SPEAKER_03]: So this whole submission cluster, when they were at him, questions, when he was showing all these clusters in my opinion, if the point where he just wanted to confess about his 29:27 [SPEAKER_03]: also. 29:29 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think at this point, I'm pretty sure, I think that he wanted to confess what his role in Kathy's murder was. 29:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you were the one doing the interview at that time, do you have pressed him on that? 29:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, absolutely, because he was showing all the, or all 29:54 [SPEAKER_03]: was not only splitting, but it was probably splitting all the way. 29:58 [SPEAKER_03]: He wanted to stay it, but he just, his subconscious just stopped him from. 30:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Because you can see it, you can see it in his eyes, you can see it in his state. 30:08 [SPEAKER_03]: His state is basically covered by both hands, and his eyes are wide open. 30:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm scared crap, and I'm going to tell them what they want to know, but whatever read them, he didn't 30:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Move it on down to 817, and this is a really good indicator, and everyone will be able to see this. 30:28 [SPEAKER_03]: When asked if he did it, did he kill this to Kathy? 30:33 [SPEAKER_03]: He coveted his mouth while speaking, while answering the question. 30:38 [SPEAKER_03]: This is what his finger, just one finger straight across his mouth. 30:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Only of it. 30:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, this is, 30:46 [SPEAKER_03]: a brain flip. 30:47 [SPEAKER_03]: This is the mind attempting to stop the subject telling the truth. 30:53 [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't know what he's going to say, so it's that finger over. 30:56 [SPEAKER_03]: He said, no, but he said it's with the finger covering his mouth. 31:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Has he been enough to say yet? 31:05 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to cover your mouth, but he says no. 31:09 [SPEAKER_03]: But that one's really, like, really great. 31:13 [SPEAKER_03]: The textbook, it's right there. 31:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of writing for me to see that. 31:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Just see it so great. 31:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And also, then he moves down to H21, and does the same thing. 31:25 [SPEAKER_03]: When asked that the information about her murder, that's saying like that movement, same, there's no. 31:32 [SPEAKER_03]: singer-roversman. 31:34 [SPEAKER_03]: It's classic and it's amazing to think. 31:37 [SPEAKER_03]: And you see it like that. 31:38 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just almost I want to say personal that indicator. 31:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Dept. 31:43 [SPEAKER_03]: At age twenty, we have him, they play with a denial flag and saying, yeah, nothing to do with it. 31:50 [SPEAKER_03]: But the key thing there, and anything 32:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, something to do with it, but he's not going to stay healthy. 32:06 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just in this and it's a denial flag and the key for that one is he wants to look down and he looks down and doesn't make eye contact with Ryan, that's what that is. 32:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And at 835, 32:23 [SPEAKER_03]: on our continue on episode thick. 32:25 [SPEAKER_03]: He again got that what the band on the table and played the down so I assume he was fidgeting with that. 32:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, so I felt like I said that would have been great to know if he had been fidgeting with that whole car. 32:40 [SPEAKER_03]: And that would have been a comfort thing and that's calming him down and keeping his mind straight. 32:45 [SPEAKER_03]: In my opinion, oh, again, he's saying it, 32:52 [SPEAKER_03]: was the made to play and Kathy's murder. 32:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I believe just by all this, he shows the cluster was key, just the covering of the mouth and the light open eyes and all the things I listed was definitely, I think, for sure. 33:07 [SPEAKER_03]: By opinion, he was involved directly with Kathy's 33:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, again, it's one of those things to where when people watch the keepers, I think many of them take away from that interview. 33:26 [SPEAKER_01]: you feel like he's not fully telling the truth. 33:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So being able to see here with you and discuss the different examples of where this is him being deceptive or this is an example of him trying to sue themselves because he doesn't want to say what he feels like he needs to say. 33:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So this has been very helpful. 33:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you need to have a lot of tech on this stuff, a lot of 33:51 [SPEAKER_03]: programs and training manuals that I've been through. 33:54 [SPEAKER_03]: And when I looked at that cluster, I mentioned earlier, and all these books, textbooks, training manuals, all agree with what I saw there, all he confession. 34:05 [SPEAKER_03]: He wanted to stay at, like, I don't know what people's thinking, but maybe it's time. 34:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it's time I let the cat out of the bag. 34:13 [SPEAKER_03]: But the summer is, and he didn't. 34:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I don't. 34:18 [SPEAKER_03]: He's either got that. 34:20 [SPEAKER_03]: strong will are just didn't want to deal with well is going to come after it be good confess. 34:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Now those are not up lag expressions. 34:28 [SPEAKER_03]: get there interesting because the characters and they mock a critical point in a subject statement when they're always like, I didn't have anything to do with it. 34:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And I mentioned this the last time we talked and I wouldn't lie to you honestly, I didn't do it. 34:43 [SPEAKER_03]: I had nothing to do with it. 34:44 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm afraid for a second being to dare and make that thing think those youth had a few denial of like indicate us too, but I think that's that and it's just denying 34:56 [SPEAKER_03]: find a thatching with him lately. 34:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I would like to know what his thought process looked at that time when Ryan was interviewing him, because he looked really stressed, really scared, he had the mall, he had stressed fair and that's it all, they're all doing that whole clip pretty based in the watch. 35:13 [SPEAKER_03]: That's it, Baret. 35:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 35:26 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you. 36:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Looking for a game that's fun, relaxing, and gives classic solitaire a fresh twist, 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