0:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Listener, there is a village in the apple country of Western New York, called Sodus, up in Wayne County near the south shore of Lake Ontario, about 30 miles east of Rochester. 0:14 [SPEAKER_03]: This is Fruit Belt Land, orchard and muckfield running back from the lake, roadside stay and selling cider in the fall, the big cold lake, holding the frost off the trees and spring. 0:26 [SPEAKER_03]: In October, the orchids go heavy. 0:29 [SPEAKER_03]: and the light comes in low and gold across the drum ones. 0:32 [SPEAKER_03]: The long humped hills, a few thousand people, one central school the whole area feeds into. 0:39 [SPEAKER_03]: The worst trouble in a given year, usually a bad wreck out on Route 14, the kind of place where a double murder and a driveway on a sunny Monday afternoon. 0:49 [SPEAKER_03]: does not just grief people, it cracks the basic understanding they have about where they live. 0:55 [SPEAKER_03]: On the 22nd of October, 2018, that understanding broke. 1:01 [SPEAKER_03]: It broke on a short residential street called Carlton Street, a block of modest houses near the so-to-central school, the kind of street where people leave the doors unlocked and the kids write bikes in the road. 1:13 [SPEAKER_03]: And a little after three in the afternoon, in full daylight, with neighbors home and children about, a young couple was shot to death in the driveway of their own home. 1:23 [SPEAKER_03]: By the time the first deputy arrived, the shooter was gone, and the street had become a crime scene that the people who saw it would carry for the rest of their lives. 1:33 [SPEAKER_03]: The question that organized everything that came after was not really who pulled the trigger, though that question would take a jury to answer, and would be far hard in a courtroom in minds. 1:44 [SPEAKER_03]: The deeper question was how a quiet, street and apple country became the end point of a plan that began more than 1,500 miles away in the Texas Panhandle, in the mind of a sitting police chief, because that is what this case turns out to be. 2:00 [SPEAKER_03]: not a robbery gone wrong, not a stranger, not a crime of the moment. 2:05 [SPEAKER_03]: It was a hit. 2:06 [SPEAKER_03]: A planned finance were herst, long distance killing carried out by a man with a badge and a career and law enforcement. 2:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I'd be half of a woman who went to her ex-boyfriend, Dad. 2:18 [SPEAKER_03]: The man who arrived at the scene of the shooting that afternoon, the Wayne County District Attorney, with later say that he 2:30 [SPEAKER_03]: All the earmarks of extreme rage and a distinct point in, he was right on both counts, and the distance between the rage and the plan, between the wanting and the doing, is the whole of this story. 2:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome, listener. 2:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm glad you're here. 2:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Take a seat. 2:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Next to the fire. 2:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Obscira, where we shine a light on the dark. 3:22 [SPEAKER_09]: And basically, what's the life that we talked about? 3:25 [SPEAKER_07]: You called me on my way up here from a restricted number. 3:31 [SPEAKER_07]: And you've, like, ever, I answered it, and I'll file it. 3:37 [SPEAKER_07]: You're like, hello? 3:39 [SPEAKER_07]: Hello? 3:40 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, I know you don't want me calling you all like, why don't you call me from a strict number? 3:45 [SPEAKER_07]: Because I know you want to do a third phone. 3:47 [SPEAKER_07]: Do you say? 3:48 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay. 3:49 [SPEAKER_07]: You know, fix this. 3:51 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay. 3:51 [SPEAKER_07]: And he said he had all what happened on the news. 3:54 [SPEAKER_07]: He asked me about it all. 3:55 [SPEAKER_07]: I know as much as everybody else is. 3:57 [SPEAKER_09]: How would he see that I'm the news down in Texas? 4:00 [SPEAKER_07]: Because I had shared a couple of the news articles on Facebook. 4:06 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, Chris. 4:07 [SPEAKER_09]: All right. 4:08 [SPEAKER_07]: Do you remember the New York? 4:10 [SPEAKER_07]: He has with me. 4:11 [SPEAKER_09]: Do you think that you came with her? 4:13 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't believe that he was. 4:15 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't have reason to believe that he was. 4:17 [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I know the guy has had his locked ring upside down, but so about. 4:21 [SPEAKER_07]: You know? 4:23 [SPEAKER_09]: What's he ever said about Josh? 4:26 [SPEAKER_07]: Me and Josh did not have a good purpose. 4:28 [SPEAKER_07]: I did. 4:29 [SPEAKER_07]: Relationship. 4:30 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay. 4:34 [SPEAKER_07]: I can't knew the stuff that Josh had done to me. 4:36 [SPEAKER_09]: Or did I really mean? 4:38 [SPEAKER_07]: Josh used to be the hell out of me. 4:39 [SPEAKER_07]: Totally. 4:40 [SPEAKER_07]: For five years, he beat the hell out of me. 4:44 [SPEAKER_07]: Tim had never really spoke too bad about him, you know? 4:49 [SPEAKER_07]: It was more of, you know, if I could ever get into a fight with him, I would fight him. 4:56 [SPEAKER_07]: And that's what I've gotten a lot of messages about it. 4:59 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, was this a, a, a, a volcano going wrong? 5:03 [SPEAKER_07]: Why y'all are asking me, and why do you think my ex tells me everything he does? 5:07 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah, I'm going to tell a little person today. 5:10 [SPEAKER_07]: No. 5:11 [SPEAKER_09]: Do you think Tim's capable of turning somebody? 5:17 [SPEAKER_07]: I can't see it. 5:19 [SPEAKER_07]: Like I'm on the job for questions, there's a lot more I can't see it. 5:29 [SPEAKER_03]: We begin with the two people who died, because in a case this thick with plotting, they are the first thing you lose, and they are the reason any of it matters. 5:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Josh Niles had grown up in sodas, he and Shirley and Childears were high school sweetheart, two kids from the same small place who got together young. 5:48 [SPEAKER_03]: moved in early, had two children, then they turned out to be two people who could make children together, but not alive. 5:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Josh's mother, Barb Niles, put it plainly to the Rochester paper. 6:01 [SPEAKER_03]: They made two beautiful children, she said, and they just were not compatible. 6:05 [SPEAKER_03]: That describes a great many households, and almost all of them, it ends in lawyers and a parenting schedule, not in gunfire. 6:17 [SPEAKER_03]: He was with Amber Washburn. 6:19 [SPEAKER_03]: By every account, it was good. 6:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Amber was 24, younger than Josh, and the two of them had been together a few years. 6:27 [SPEAKER_03]: They had a son of their own, Joshua Jr., born in 2014. 6:31 [SPEAKER_03]: A little boy was autism, whom they were raising together in the house on Carlton Street. 6:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Amber had children of her own in the picture too. 6:40 [SPEAKER_03]: The household at 29 Carlton 6:44 [SPEAKER_03]: The kind that gets assembled out of the wreckage of earlier relationships and the people who knew them described a couple who had found something solid. 6:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Josh worked. 6:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Amber kept the family running. 6:56 [SPEAKER_03]: They were young and they were getting on with it. 6:58 [SPEAKER_03]: The trouble in the background was the custody fight. 7:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Josh and Charlene Childers had two children and after they split, the question of who would raise those children when were such questions go into Wayne County Family Court in earlier in 2018. 7:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Josh won. 7:16 [SPEAKER_03]: He got custody for a father to win primary custody. 7:20 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not the common outcome and that it happened 7:30 [SPEAKER_07]: like it still feels like a horrible battery. 7:32 [SPEAKER_07]: Right. 7:33 [SPEAKER_07]: How? 7:34 [SPEAKER_07]: Who? 7:35 [SPEAKER_07]: Why? 7:36 [SPEAKER_07]: That's what I want to know. 7:37 [SPEAKER_07]: My kids think the closer. 7:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay. 7:39 [SPEAKER_07]: Now we've turned out in God's forbid and I swear on every day if it is Tim, my kids will never find out. 7:48 [SPEAKER_09]: Sure. 7:50 [SPEAKER_07]: Because they don't need to be crushed even more. 7:52 [SPEAKER_09]: Right. 7:53 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. 7:53 [SPEAKER_09]: But sure. 7:54 [SPEAKER_09]: Thoughts right now. 7:55 [SPEAKER_09]: What's going on? 7:56 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. 7:56 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay. 8:03 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not sure what to think. 8:04 [SPEAKER_08]: Do you see the limits that twist? 8:07 [SPEAKER_08]: Here it just happens, Josh, and for some reason, Timson, which talk can this. 8:13 [SPEAKER_08]: So, if what it was definitely at night, then you want to wish Tom. 8:18 [SPEAKER_07]: Yes. 8:18 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay. 8:19 [SPEAKER_07]: It was after three o'clock. 8:20 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, where did you say you picked him up? 8:22 [SPEAKER_07]: At a motel six in Bolia. 8:27 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay. 8:27 [SPEAKER_08]: You picked him up the motel? 8:29 [SPEAKER_08]: Yes. 8:29 [SPEAKER_08]: and you pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to pick him up to a hotel and pick him up to pick him up 8:57 [SPEAKER_07]: It's been my quite a few days. 9:00 [SPEAKER_03]: What is nine to spew is the effect on Shirley and Childears, which she would later describe herself under oath and words that are hard to forget, losing the children to Josh Niles was not for her a defeat to be lived with. 9:16 [SPEAKER_03]: It was a wound she meant to answer. 9:18 [SPEAKER_03]: A custody win is not a clean thing. 9:20 [SPEAKER_03]: It is months of filings and hearings and accusations. 9:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Two people dragging the wreckage of a family and a corps. 9:28 [SPEAKER_03]: So a judge can decide which of them that children are safer with. 9:31 [SPEAKER_03]: When Josh won, a Wayne County judge had weighed the two of them and come down on his side. 9:37 [SPEAKER_03]: And the outcome carried a verdict about both parents inside of it. 9:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Childeers did not take it as a schedule. 9:44 [SPEAKER_03]: She would have to live with. 9:46 [SPEAKER_03]: She took it as a thing done to her. 9:48 [SPEAKER_03]: A thing that had to be answered and the answer she settled on was not an appeal. 9:53 [SPEAKER_09]: Did you ever hear it do? 9:54 [SPEAKER_09]: Put 10 shots in Jackson Hammer? 9:56 [SPEAKER_09]: No. 9:58 [SPEAKER_09]: Did you put 10 out to it? 9:59 [SPEAKER_09]: No. 10:00 [SPEAKER_09]: do you detint? 10:03 [SPEAKER_09]: Why do we think tinted this? 10:05 [SPEAKER_09]: And knowing what we know now, I'm going to give you just my quick look at this from when I'm getting this morning. 10:13 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I have your husband 10:21 [SPEAKER_09]: get to work, may get to rest it for this child abuse, on a video that you had video taken, but not the purpose of video taken wasn't to show the lives of use. 10:34 [SPEAKER_09]: It was to show the child's end at court, there was going on and the trouble that the child was causing for the family. 10:43 [SPEAKER_09]: Now you get to figure out your children, but take them away from them, for, you know, something you didn't do. 10:50 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay. 10:52 [SPEAKER_09]: Now I think there might be you might know some more, because of you guys, it's like, okay, so I want to say love and hate relationship, because you've been your own words. 11:01 [SPEAKER_09]: You, you, you, you know, he's not a bad guy. 11:03 [SPEAKER_09]: He's just the thing working out for us. 11:06 [SPEAKER_09]: And then you may not want to think that this is what you are. 11:09 [SPEAKER_09]: And more knowledge about what's going on than what you're letting me know. 11:12 [SPEAKER_09]: And I wanted to give you that opportunity to say, hey, if it sinks or it sinks, okay? 11:17 [SPEAKER_09]: But you don't want to go down with it, you know what I'm saying? 11:20 [SPEAKER_09]: I want to, you know, you're better with this than you are suspect. 11:25 [SPEAKER_09]: Don't, it's all part of the same to him because of this, okay? 11:33 [SPEAKER_09]: That's why you're here right now, okay, as this courtesy to explain why this stuff that we we have some information here, we've been working this all week, but still studying and I think you can answer it, okay, but it's probably going to be, you know, against him, okay? 11:53 [SPEAKER_09]: I think that you might know some more current knowledge about what he did. 12:00 [SPEAKER_09]: And I just want, I want you to grasp out of this opportunity right now to give a set of information about that. 12:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Amber Washburn had nothing to do with any of it, not the marriage, not the breakup, not the custody fight. 12:13 [SPEAKER_03]: She was Josh's partner. 12:15 [SPEAKER_03]: The mother of his youngest child, and her only connection to the plot that killed her, was that she loved the man it was aimed at, sharply in child years, is the center of gravity of this case. 12:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Even though she never came to sodas, never held the gun, was home in Texas when the shots were fired. 12:32 [SPEAKER_03]: She's the reason it happened. 12:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone who walked hard at this case came to the same conclusion, and Childears herself, in the end, did not really dispute it. 12:42 [SPEAKER_03]: She wanted Josh Niles dead, and she said so, out loud, to the people around her, more than once, and then she helped set into motion the thing that made it real. 12:53 [SPEAKER_03]: By 2018, Childears had left sodess, moved to Texas. 12:58 [SPEAKER_03]: and married Timothy Dean, but her wife was not the simple one of a wife pining for wash children. 13:04 [SPEAKER_03]: She was living across several attachments at once, the marriage to Dean, a boyfriend back in sodas named Casey Miller, who had once done time over a relationship with her that began when she was under age, and the two children with Josh, now in Josh's custody in New York. 13:22 [SPEAKER_03]: A person holds that many contradictory ties at once, 13:25 [SPEAKER_03]: is a person for whom others can become. 13:28 [SPEAKER_03]: At some level, instruments, the one fixed star through all of it was her fury at Josh Niles for taking the children. 13:36 [SPEAKER_03]: The prosecution's account bill largely on child's own words was that she worked on Dean, that she told him something had to be done about Josh. 13:45 [SPEAKER_03]: On the stand at his trial, she did not reach for you for 13:49 [SPEAKER_03]: She told the court she had told her husband the murder had to happen, and that he agreed. 13:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Then recorded interviews, she admitted she had been the driving force that she wanted Niles dead. 14:01 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know that he did. 14:03 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay. 14:04 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know. 14:05 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, tell me what you do now. 14:09 [SPEAKER_07]: I know he loves me. 14:12 [SPEAKER_07]: And I know that he would do anything to try to make my life less complicated. 14:19 [SPEAKER_07]: Do I want to sit here and believe? 14:21 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, my ex-husband, or soon to be ex-husband freaking murdered the father and said, I love her about children. 14:28 [SPEAKER_07]: No, I don't want to believe that, about it all. 14:32 [SPEAKER_08]: So, why did you think you were running him with vehicle? 14:35 [SPEAKER_07]: I thought I was running him with vehicle just to have to get around. 14:40 [SPEAKER_09]: You know he was taking a trip out this way. 14:44 [SPEAKER_09]: You know he was running vehicles to do that. 14:48 [SPEAKER_09]: He got the answer to you the first one he calls. 14:51 [SPEAKER_09]: He does the deal. 14:52 [SPEAKER_09]: You're the first one he calls afterwards. 14:54 [SPEAKER_09]: It has great delay in the conversation. 14:57 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I got the card being rented out of Stary, I want to talk to him. 15:00 [SPEAKER_08]: But you're saying together, they're 11 and 94. 15:03 [SPEAKER_08]: You're saying you picked him up. 15:04 [SPEAKER_08]: You won't tell sex. 15:05 [SPEAKER_08]: We have video from the hotels showing Uber driver picking him up at the hotel, not you. 15:11 [SPEAKER_08]: We can imagine how it looks to us and we do find that you're not being honest with us So I mean how you're talking about us twisting things up. 15:18 [SPEAKER_07]: I mean We just want the truth we're not twisting anything I mean yeah, we did talk about it There's quite an answer You know Being in pissed off clothes every time and I turned around and it was like I was getting some other kind of bad It's all right, you know all the time I come up 15:36 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, my lawyers got me pumped, I'm gonna get my kids back, I got this, you know, I'm a good mom, I do what I gotta do, I work hard, and I always sport them, they always have what they need, not necessarily always what they want, but they have what they need. 15:50 [SPEAKER_07]: Right, and they're sort of... Yeah, exactly, I'm a damn good boss. 15:55 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't feel, I lose. 15:58 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm torn. 16:00 [SPEAKER_09]: Why do you think you haven't? 16:06 [SPEAKER_07]: around him. 16:08 [SPEAKER_07]: So we had talked about, you know, I was thought I was just going to die in a ditch somewhere because, you know, nine years, ten years now, of just total BS every time I turn around that man's trying to do something to my life. 16:21 [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't matter that I live halfway across the country and that's the reason I moved halfway across the country. 16:25 [SPEAKER_07]: It was to get away from him to where he could still see the kids. 16:29 [SPEAKER_07]: We had a visitation, but no, every time I turn around, he's always bad about the meat. 16:37 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay. 16:40 [SPEAKER_07]: Do it. 16:41 [SPEAKER_07]: Do it. 16:42 [SPEAKER_07]: Do it. 16:43 [SPEAKER_07]: Do it. 16:43 [SPEAKER_07]: Do it. 16:44 [SPEAKER_07]: Do it. 16:45 [SPEAKER_07]: No. 16:46 [SPEAKER_03]: What would you say? 16:47 [SPEAKER_07]: He's like, oh, yeah, I'll get it done. 16:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Timothy Dean was on paper. 16:52 [SPEAKER_03]: The last man you would expect at the far end of a contract killing. 16:55 [SPEAKER_03]: He was a chief of polines, he had spent years in Texas Law Enforcement and risen to run the small department in Sun Ray, the kind of job where one man is a large fraction 17:07 [SPEAKER_03]: He knew how investigations were built, knew about evidence and bolistics, and the things that catch people, and he used that knowledge to try to get away with it, and the trying is part of what convicted him. 17:19 [SPEAKER_03]: By the accounts that came out of trial, Dean was devoted to trial nurse, devoted enough to do the thing she wanted done. 17:26 [SPEAKER_03]: The prosecution's picture was of a man who loved his wife, passed all reason and more. 17:31 [SPEAKER_03]: who absorbed her hatred of Josh Niles as his own and turned her wish into a project, a long drive and a loaded gun. 17:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Whether he was the cold professional or the besotted fool, the case never quite resounds. 17:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Non-assancer is probably bold, and the unkemplanned like a cop in kill like a jealous husband. 17:51 [SPEAKER_03]: There was a third man in orbit, Bronballer, a son-ray police officer with nearly 12 years on before his arrest. 17:59 [SPEAKER_03]: It had known Dean for years through the small world of panhandle wall enforcement, and childers only a few months. 18:06 [SPEAKER_03]: His role was at the edges, and it would turn out to be the thread that, when pulled unraveled everything, because a plan requires logistics, a car that could not be traced to Dean, and in an early version, a way to kill Niles that would not look like murder at all. 18:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing about this was sudden, listener, and the first plan proves it. 18:27 [SPEAKER_03]: The first plan was not to shoot Josh Niles at all. 18:30 [SPEAKER_03]: It was to make his death look like an accident. 18:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Ron Baller testified to it at trial. 18:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Dean, Baller said, originally intended to kill Niles with Fenton all. 18:40 [SPEAKER_03]: He was going to put a fentanyl patch on him, the idea, monstrous in its tidiness, was to incapacitate or kill niles with the opioid, and let it read as what it would have superficially resembled, an overdose. 18:53 [SPEAKER_03]: The kind of death that in 2018 was happening to young men all over the country, and drawn less and less scrutiny each time, a police chief would know exactly how an overdose 19:10 [SPEAKER_03]: How easily a body with an opioid in it disappears into a statistic. 19:14 [SPEAKER_03]: The first plan was to hide the murder inside the epidemic. 19:18 [SPEAKER_03]: The fentanyl plan never happened. 19:20 [SPEAKER_03]: For reasons never yet fully explained. 19:23 [SPEAKER_03]: All it also testified is something that complicated him. 19:27 [SPEAKER_03]: And then the defense seized on. 19:29 [SPEAKER_03]: He said he thought Dima was joking. 19:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Dean had asked him to come to New York to help kill Niles. 19:34 [SPEAKER_03]: He said, and he had begged off, claiming he could not get away from his own police job. 19:39 [SPEAKER_03]: And he had taken the rest for talk. 19:41 [SPEAKER_03]: The dark kind of thing men say. 19:43 [SPEAKER_07]: Then it's been a few months. 19:45 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we've stayed in contact. 19:48 [SPEAKER_07]: And then Thursday, prior to that, he said, we're going to trip to New York. 19:57 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay. 19:58 [SPEAKER_07]: All he said was I'm going to make a trip to New York and then I said why he's like just to go get some business done. 20:07 [SPEAKER_03]: What Dean did in the third week of October 2018 was getting a car and drive from the Texas Panhandle to the South Shore of Lake Ontario, the distance of more than 1,500 miles to Kola Man he had as far as anyone knows 20:27 [SPEAKER_07]: What kind of business? 20:28 [SPEAKER_07]: Nothing you need to know about. 20:31 [SPEAKER_08]: Do you think you was ever on the impression that you were getting accustomed back that things were going between you and him? 20:39 [SPEAKER_07]: He wasn't first. 20:42 [SPEAKER_07]: He was. 20:44 [SPEAKER_07]: You know, like, you know, if I ever get custody back, then we'll do the whole, you know, slowly date for a little bit. 20:51 [SPEAKER_07]: bring you back into the kids' lives slowly, you know, re-induced type of thing. 20:56 [SPEAKER_09]: Makes sense. 20:56 [SPEAKER_07]: Make them, you know, see that you're all such a bad guy that everybody's made you out to be. 21:01 [SPEAKER_09]: You know what I mean? 21:03 [SPEAKER_09]: You shouldn't assume. 21:04 [SPEAKER_09]: You shouldn't assume. 21:05 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I mean. 21:06 [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I just need to be part of clear on that, okay? 21:09 [SPEAKER_09]: What was actually said? 21:10 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. 21:11 [SPEAKER_07]: It was just... 21:12 [SPEAKER_07]: Shoot him, get him out of my life, you know. 21:15 [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't think that he actually liked. 21:17 [SPEAKER_09]: But you are a very powerful young lady, okay? 21:21 [SPEAKER_09]: Besides being beautiful, you have a lot of persuasion about she's like, your persuasion is your lady. 21:28 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, you know that you got that kind of power. 21:31 [SPEAKER_09]: There's no problem with that. 21:33 [SPEAKER_09]: You want to smile? 21:34 [SPEAKER_09]: It's fine. 21:34 [SPEAKER_09]: You want to smile? 21:35 [SPEAKER_09]: It's fine, you want to smile? 21:36 [SPEAKER_09]: It's fine, you want to smile? 21:37 [SPEAKER_09]: It's fine, you want to smile? 21:38 [SPEAKER_09]: It's fine, you want to smile? 21:39 [SPEAKER_09]: It's fine, you want to smile? 21:40 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I'm a beautiful guy. 21:41 [SPEAKER_09]: I know I got that power. 21:42 [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm with you on that, okay? 21:42 [SPEAKER_09]: You have a beautiful guy. 21:43 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, thank you. 21:44 [SPEAKER_09]: Um, you know. 21:45 [SPEAKER_09]: But anyways, that happens to me. 21:47 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, nothing. 21:47 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sorry. 21:48 [SPEAKER_07]: You know, that I think he was going to shoot him. 21:51 [SPEAKER_07]: And kill him. 21:52 [SPEAKER_07]: And kill Amber. 21:53 [SPEAKER_08]: You thought maybe now I come up here and get this space to tell them what you were looking at? 21:57 [SPEAKER_07]: I think yes. 21:59 [SPEAKER_07]: That was about the most. 22:00 [SPEAKER_07]: It's even that. 22:02 [SPEAKER_07]: I think he would pull up by a house that they're for a little while, lost them. 22:09 [SPEAKER_09]: see the kids from the distance and left you knew damn while he was going up to New York okay you knew damn while he was going to the storage you know damn while he was going at minimum to confront Josh okay I'm about you getting your kids back what do you do you and you're going to try to solve 22:30 [SPEAKER_09]: To the powers to be that you've done Tim was going to talk to Josh and then that will Josh So you know what Tim then just the way I think you should have been take the kids back with you in your rental heart Okay, all right, so all right, and yes, I'm being a diseases here. 22:47 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, all right, so with that said I can help explain your end of it if you're gonna hold on my ass here. 22:56 [SPEAKER_07]: It was I honestly it was he called 23:00 [SPEAKER_07]: We're stressed. 23:02 [SPEAKER_07]: I answered it, was silent for a minute. 23:05 [SPEAKER_03]: The car mattered. 23:07 [SPEAKER_03]: The man planning a murder across the country is not one vehicle to come back to him. 23:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Indeed, the car, he understood that. 23:15 [SPEAKER_03]: So the car was running in someone else's name, Braun Boller, rented it. 23:19 [SPEAKER_03]: That single favor, a friend Pony is own name on a rental agreement in the act that would later let Boller be charged. 23:26 [SPEAKER_03]: would give the investigators the loose and they needed. 23:29 [SPEAKER_03]: At the time it must have seemed small. 23:31 [SPEAKER_03]: A buddy needs a car. 23:33 [SPEAKER_03]: He rented. 23:34 [SPEAKER_03]: What of it? 23:35 [SPEAKER_03]: But a rental agreement is a document. 23:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Documents are what homicide investigations feed on. 23:40 [SPEAKER_03]: The drive left a trail. 23:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Because in 2018, a man carrying a cell phone leaves one whether he means to or not. 23:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And here, Dean's confidence, how ran its competence, a New York State Police Investigator, named Greg Schmitter, will later build the jury a map of Dean's phone crossing the country, Texas up through Kansas, and then east into Indiana in Ohio on the 21st of October. 24:05 [SPEAKER_03]: The day before the murders, the phone of a man with nothing to hide, is unremarkable. 24:11 [SPEAKER_03]: The phone of a man who has told people he means to kill someone, traveling towards that someone the day before that someone dies, is a confession written in cell towers. 24:21 [SPEAKER_07]: So then I don't want me to call you and have contact with you, but I just thought I was going on a Facebook, and I was wondering what the hell was going on? 24:29 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, you know it. 24:30 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I'm going to call Chineira, he's on that. 24:33 [SPEAKER_09]: Because now you just have to talk about you just got to set up a vehicle for him to take, pick him up after the accident, for him to go to New York, and now he's got a non-shallotly call, you say, hey, I just have to see what we're doing. 24:45 [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know, isn't it? 24:47 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I think it was something like that. 24:49 [SPEAKER_09]: I think it was more like, 24:50 [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, what are you here and what's going on? 24:52 [SPEAKER_09]: What is going on? 24:53 [SPEAKER_09]: What is going on? 24:54 [SPEAKER_09]: What is going on? 24:55 [SPEAKER_09]: I think it's more of that. 24:56 [SPEAKER_09]: And I think this is more talk that he told you. 24:58 [SPEAKER_09]: But you're not being fully honest. 25:00 [SPEAKER_09]: Because nothing's driving with this. 25:02 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm running vehicles on far. 25:04 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm working up the cheapest car for the drive. 25:06 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm getting the whole of a body. 25:07 [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm driving the body. 25:08 [SPEAKER_09]: It'll get a needle. 25:09 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm pounding the body. 25:10 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm pounding the body. 25:11 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm pounding the body. 25:12 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm pounding the body. 25:13 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm pounding the body. 25:14 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm pounding the body. 25:16 [SPEAKER_09]: the rental agreement as a driver. 25:19 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm telling him this, I'm doing this. 25:21 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm bringing him here and then you're going to tell me this phone call afterwards. 25:25 [SPEAKER_09]: It's like, oh, hey, I heard what you have to think. 25:29 [SPEAKER_07]: That's what it's like. 25:31 [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm telling you this because I know for a fact that he could have sworn to die that his phone in my phone were tapped So he was gonna talk like that act it like he wasn't even at the scene That's in line she wasn't in New York and he said, yeah, well, I know they're probably gonna come after me because I've been MIA for the last couple days since we weren't in the future He said that in that phone call that 25:58 [SPEAKER_09]: But you didn't say that. 25:59 [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you didn't let me finish it either. 26:01 [SPEAKER_07]: You were giving, like, this was a bit of a kind of event. 26:03 [SPEAKER_07]: You know, the phone call call. 26:04 [SPEAKER_09]: The phone call is, like, you never said, don't do this. 26:08 [SPEAKER_09]: I was just kidding. 26:09 [SPEAKER_09]: I was just dining, right? 26:11 [SPEAKER_07]: No, I didn't. 26:11 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay. 26:13 [SPEAKER_07]: And I could talk to my lawyer and I asked him, what do I do? 26:17 [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I know that we kind of want to talk to me. 26:19 [SPEAKER_07]: I know he wants some questions and answers. 26:21 [SPEAKER_07]: Yes. 26:23 [SPEAKER_07]: And what do I do? 26:26 [SPEAKER_07]: He's like, whatever you can do, that's talk to the dog public. 26:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And then there was Kansas, the strange hinge of the whole case. 26:35 [SPEAKER_03]: The accident that cracked it open wider than any single piece of police work, somewhere in Kansas in the small hours, around four in the morning, on a dark highway near Emporia. 26:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Dean wrecked the rental car. 26:48 [SPEAKER_03]: He was, by his own later account, trying to make a huge turn on a dark road, and he put the car off the road. 26:56 [SPEAKER_03]: He called 911 himself, and he lying counting Kansas Sheriff Deputy, named Cory Nicolette, responded, and Deputy Nicolette's body camera was running. 27:06 [SPEAKER_03]: The footage is one of the earliest things in the case. 27:09 [SPEAKER_03]: It shows a man at the side of a Kansas highway in the dark, his rented car wrecked several firearms in the vehicle, a day's hard driving from home, and pointed the wrong way from any innocent purpose. 27:21 [SPEAKER_03]: In it shows him calm, talking to Nicolae, the way one cop talks to another, the wreck created a problem, and solving it pulled child or steeper in. 27:31 [SPEAKER_03]: The first rental and 27:36 [SPEAKER_03]: and she drove up to Kansas and helped him get a second rental so he could finish the drive to kill the man she wanted killed. 27:44 [SPEAKER_04]: So you're there, you don't just need to you just need you to fetch yourself a little. 27:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Why do you fetch yourself a little? 27:52 [SPEAKER_05]: I have to understand. 27:53 [SPEAKER_05]: I left home with the intentional going somewhere or away and put the bullet in my head. 27:58 [SPEAKER_05]: So no way that nails me would have to be the one behind me and work it. 28:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay. 28:05 [SPEAKER_05]: watching and I turned my phone on so no way to call me and figure out what I'll get on and try and talk about it. 28:12 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay. 28:13 [SPEAKER_04]: So what change? 28:15 [SPEAKER_04]: What made it change to what happened that day? 28:18 [SPEAKER_04]: And he thinks I'm gonna sit here and say that I did that, you're crazy. 28:23 [SPEAKER_04]: I think you're crazy if you don't quite almost hear you. 28:27 [SPEAKER_04]: And why I tell him I mean that? 28:29 [SPEAKER_06]: Tim, it's not a question if you can hear me. 28:31 [SPEAKER_06]: It's a question I'm wondering, are you so free? 28:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Five different detectives from New York, drove down here for no reason. 28:40 [SPEAKER_04]: You're wearing the same jacket, wearing on that video. 28:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Actually two videos. 28:47 [SPEAKER_06]: Wouldn't it win us as describe you in that jacket? 28:51 [SPEAKER_06]: You can see the green hat inside your vehicle on the camera. 28:55 [SPEAKER_06]: The same green hat you can wear and to do the murder. 28:59 [SPEAKER_06]: What are you talking about? 29:01 [SPEAKER_06]: What do you mean when am I talking about? 29:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Next, this green hat, when you know if you had colors or whatever's on your head, but the dark hoodie or the black jacket and the hoodie. 29:14 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it doesn't have a hat. 29:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I think you can order you that all you want, but you're going to try to say it's a coincidence. 29:19 [SPEAKER_04]: You travel up there, you have this guy's lying on what you're hanging on there. 29:23 [SPEAKER_04]: And then you rent another one with this tackier, who the takes tackier out there, Tim? 29:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Who? 29:29 [SPEAKER_06]: I'll take it with me. 29:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Don't tell me that bullshit you're bullish. 29:33 [SPEAKER_04]: You want to put yourself out to be this tactical operator, you are a small town cup, you are a coward, they can't even keep a job. 29:44 [SPEAKER_03]: The afternoon of October 22nd was ordinary on Carlton Street. 29:48 [SPEAKER_03]: It was a Monday, sunny, the orchids turning an unremarkable, full afternoon in a quiet village. 29:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Josh Niles was outside his house at 29 Carlton. 30:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Near his truck, next door at 27 Carlton, a neighbor named Tiffany Thayer, was in her kitchen, getting a snack for her two-year-old. 30:09 [SPEAKER_03]: In through her kitchen window, she could see Josh 30:13 [SPEAKER_03]: She knew Josh and Amber are only in passing, the way you know neighbors on a short street, by sight and a wave. 30:20 [SPEAKER_03]: What she saw through that window, she would carry for the rest of her life, and she would later describe it on the witness stand more than half a year later, choking back tears. 30:30 [SPEAKER_03]: She saw Josh in conversation with a man, just two figures talking by a truck, nothing alarming in it. 30:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Then Amber's car pulled in. 30:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Amber was coming home from an errand. 30:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Her little boy, Joshua Jr. in the backseat. 30:45 [SPEAKER_03]: She pulled into the driveway of her own house and into the middle of a killing. 30:49 [SPEAKER_03]: They heard a shot and looked and saw Josh grab his chest. 30:54 [SPEAKER_03]: She saw Amber understand in an instant what was happening and throw her car into reverse to get away to get her child away. 31:02 [SPEAKER_03]: And she saw the gunman turn from Josh, the man he had come 1,500 miles to kill, and fire at Amber. 31:09 [SPEAKER_03]: He shot her in the head, as her car was already moving backwards past him, as she was nearly clear. 31:16 [SPEAKER_03]: They saw Amber slump over the wheel, the car with Amber dead or dying at the wheel, and the four-year-old in the back, rolled backwards across Carlton Street, and came to rest. 31:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Generally, against the neighbor's driveway on the far side, by the grace of nothing but luck, the boy was not heard, and then the gunman finished what he had come for. 31:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Josh, shot in the chest, was down, trying to get away, trying to crawl under his own truck. 31:44 [SPEAKER_03]: to put steel between himself and the gun, the shooter walked to him and emptying the weapon into him. 31:51 [SPEAKER_03]: When it was over, Josh Niles had been shot something like 10 times, the deliberateness of that, the walking up, the emptying of the magazine into a wounded man crawling for cover. 32:03 [SPEAKER_03]: is what the district attorney met about extreme rage. 32:06 [SPEAKER_03]: You do not shooting me on 10 times to make sure he is dead. 32:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Two will do that. 32:11 [SPEAKER_03]: You shoot a man 10 times because the shooting is the point because something in you is being discharged into him with each round. 32:20 [SPEAKER_03]: And yet, this was a man that deemed it not no. 32:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Had no personal grievance with, the rage was borrowed. 32:26 [SPEAKER_03]: He was firing his wife's hatred into a stranger. 32:29 [SPEAKER_04]: If you want to see somebody, you saw about 20 guys in the middle of the night. 32:34 [SPEAKER_04]: You're looking at two right here. 32:36 [SPEAKER_04]: You see what a shirt says? 32:38 [SPEAKER_04]: I come from the same freaking place, man. 32:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I've been in those houses when those guys wouldn't come out and didn't kill them like a little. 32:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Like you did. 32:47 [SPEAKER_04]: It's exactly what I told when you were gonna do. 32:53 [SPEAKER_04]: You want to be that cop you tried and you want to sit here and try to say you didn't do it You will take the full reliant forward You are gonna let her manipulate you and screw you over into this and I'm telling you right now I don't think you would that's exactly what she is doing to you when she is not contacting you this week Don't you see the writing on the wall? 33:17 [SPEAKER_04]: What are your bad because I'm here as a man? 33:22 [SPEAKER_04]: You look scared. 33:23 [SPEAKER_04]: You look scared like you did earlier. 33:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I ain't a lady, and a part of the child in there with me, I'm a. 33:31 [SPEAKER_04]: That is a cowardly act, and you know it, I know it. 33:35 [SPEAKER_04]: You play it on yourself. 33:37 [SPEAKER_04]: You can do it. 33:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you're mixing the note. 33:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Your mother's fixing the note, the whole world's fixing the note. 33:43 [SPEAKER_04]: You will never see your daughter again. 33:46 [SPEAKER_04]: They are ain't all the big heels out there, and you want to stand here and minimize the tune and do anything wrong and try to put that on me. 33:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Man, slap me like that, man. 33:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Do it right now, let you do it. 33:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Man, slap me. 33:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Do it. 33:59 [SPEAKER_04]: You will meet a man's left you. 34:01 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll give it the I'll give you the shot. 34:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Do it. 34:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, not. 34:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Look, I'm not a little free. 34:07 [SPEAKER_04]: You're old. 34:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Thirty-one pound girl. 34:10 [SPEAKER_04]: You, power? 34:12 [SPEAKER_06]: Is that what? 34:14 [SPEAKER_06]: That is what you are. 34:16 [SPEAKER_06]: It's time to stop being a coward to him. 34:18 [SPEAKER_06]: And from what's in your life, oh not to something you did. 34:23 [SPEAKER_06]: Quirtra and a blame me. 34:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Quirtra and a blame your daughter. 34:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Quirtra and a blame your first wife. 34:29 [SPEAKER_04]: You proud of your kid. 34:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Good you. 34:33 [SPEAKER_06]: Could you answer the question, Tim? 34:36 [SPEAKER_06]: Are you a cold blooded killer in the cowards? 34:41 [SPEAKER_06]: Or were you going through a hard time and were depressed? 34:45 [SPEAKER_06]: and not in your right mind, and manipulated by a very oppressive, manipulating woman, and did something to try to keep that marriage together because you screwed it up for her, without I want to start over. 35:00 [SPEAKER_06]: Why do you go to New York? 35:03 [SPEAKER_06]: Well, the message is, why does Charlie, what do you and Charlie talk about about why I go to New York? 35:10 [SPEAKER_05]: She didn't know what was going to do with this all out here. 35:18 [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't have a plan to go to New York. 35:21 [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't have a plan when I left the house. 35:24 [SPEAKER_05]: I was just going. 35:25 [SPEAKER_05]: So you load your gun. 35:27 [SPEAKER_05]: It's on your version. 35:29 [SPEAKER_05]: All the fields are towed. 35:31 [SPEAKER_06]: You fill it towed. 35:32 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm working all the way down towed. 35:34 [SPEAKER_06]: Stay as full. 35:35 [SPEAKER_06]: With. 35:36 [SPEAKER_06]: two guns and a bullet through the vest and how many people, how many people do you know ride the rail with that other personal car? 35:44 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't. 35:45 [SPEAKER_03]: The shooter went out through the back yards, a witness saw a man in a dark hoodie and a green hat, run through the yard of a nearby house in vanish. 35:54 [SPEAKER_03]: The first deputy to reach the scene, Wayne County Sheriff Sergeant Matt Carr walked into a nightmare on a sunny street, he found Amber dead in her car and the little boy on her and the 36:06 [SPEAKER_03]: He found shell casing scattered across the driveway in the road, a lot of them, and he found a man dead under a truck. 36:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Car would call it probably one of the worst things he'd ever seen. 36:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Dean, having shot two people to death and brought daylight, did not fall apart. 36:23 [SPEAKER_03]: He did not turn himself in. 36:25 [SPEAKER_03]: He got back in the car and drove home. 36:27 [SPEAKER_03]: The whole way to Texas. 36:28 [SPEAKER_03]: As if returning from an ordinary trip, the plan included the exit. 36:32 [SPEAKER_03]: The job was never just the killing. 36:35 [SPEAKER_03]: It was the killing in the long drive home in the quiet or resumption of life, with the death left behind to read. 36:41 [SPEAKER_03]: He must have hoped, as a mystery with no thread running back to a police chief in the panhandle. 36:47 [SPEAKER_03]: for a little while, and might have even seemed to be working. 36:51 [SPEAKER_03]: The killing in Sodus was, at first, a who-done-head, a targeted shooting, the Sheriff's Office said, the public not at risk, but a shooter in the wind with no name, a man in a dark hoodie, and a green hat, who ran through the backyards and vanished. 37:07 [SPEAKER_03]: In a village like Sodus, with no obvious local motive jumping out, a stranger who appears, kills, and disappears is genuinely hard to catch, and with a little more luck or a little more discipline, Deans might have been a case that went cold. 37:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a mother of a soldier. 37:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 37:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 37:26 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not something that you ever want to find out. 37:29 [SPEAKER_02]: The most I have to say to y'all is just this needs to be served. 37:33 [SPEAKER_02]: My kids need that closure because whoever did it has now made it to where my kids grow up without a doubt. 37:40 [SPEAKER_03]: But the custody file was right there, in plain sight. 37:43 [SPEAKER_03]: The moment anyone looked at Josh Dile's life. 37:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Niles had recently won a better custody battle. 37:49 [SPEAKER_03]: The losing party was an ex, with a documented crunch. 37:53 [SPEAKER_03]: That is the first place any competent investigator works. 37:57 [SPEAKER_03]: And they looked, when they found at the end of that look, was I heartbroken mother quietly grieving in Texas, but a woman whose new husband was a cop. 38:07 [SPEAKER_03]: who had just been on an unexplained 1500-mile road trip in a rented car, who had wrecked that car in Kansas, at four in the morning with a load of guns, who had missed shifts at his job, including on the very day of the murders, and whose phone had traveled the day before the killing from Texas to the doorstep of New York. 38:28 [SPEAKER_03]: A suspicion becomes a case when 38:36 [SPEAKER_03]: The Kansas wreck came first. 38:37 [SPEAKER_03]: When investigators began looking at Dean, they learned he had been in a rental car accident, Kansas, two days before the murders. 38:45 [SPEAKER_03]: They pulled the body camera footage from deputy Nicolette, and there was Dean on video on the round. 38:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Days before the killing, the guns in the car, telling a story about driving around and visiting a friend in New York. 38:58 [SPEAKER_03]: that made no sense for any innocent man and perfect sense for guilty one. 39:02 [SPEAKER_03]: The footage put Dean on the road to the crime, armed, and in his own voice, caught by a camera he could not talk his way around. 39:10 [SPEAKER_03]: It was so important that when the jury later deliberated, one of the things they asked to see again was exactly that Kansas Body Camera footage. 39:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Then there was the rental car itself. 39:21 [SPEAKER_03]: The agreement was in Braun Bowler's name, 19's, Mazze Firewall, and turned it to her bridge. 39:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Investigators pulled the threat of that rental, and it led straight to baller, fellow son Ray Officer. 39:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And once they had baller, they had a man with everything to lose, and a reason to talk. 39:39 [SPEAKER_03]: There was the phone evidence, the maps smitter-built, deans phone crossing the country in the days around the murders. 39:45 [SPEAKER_03]: and going quiet at the right times. 39:48 [SPEAKER_03]: The electronic shadow of a man traveling to do things he did not want recorded. 39:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And there was the physical evidence at the scene, the piece that tied Dean's own body to the driveway more surely than any confession ever could. 40:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Near the murder scene investigators recovered a ski mask, the story's shooter wares and throws away in flight. 40:07 [SPEAKER_03]: It was sent to the Monro County Crime Lab in two forensic biologists tested it. 40:12 [SPEAKER_03]: And they found stains on him, one from the nose area, and one from the mouth area. 40:16 [SPEAKER_03]: The place is a mass sits against a face, where where breeds and sweats and leaves himself behind, the DNA in those stains, of course, match Timothy Dean. 40:27 [SPEAKER_03]: A mask, a drop near, where two people were shot, with Dean's DNA in warranted, obviously. 40:33 [SPEAKER_03]: When Texas authorities and Wayne County deputies finally moved on Dean, they did it carefully, because they were resting in armed former police chief at his own home. 40:43 [SPEAKER_03]: It was a high-risk arrest, the kind law enforcement plans carefully when the target is himself trained. 40:49 [SPEAKER_03]: They surrounded the house in Sunray. 40:51 [SPEAKER_03]: And after about an hour of negotiation, a former chief on one side of the walls and his former brother and on the other, they put a flash bang inside, and Dean came out, he surrendered, he did not confess, then or ever, he gave them his body and nothing else, the same nothing he would give the courtroom. 41:11 [SPEAKER_06]: So you're there on the afternoon that Joshua knows, and Amy will watch for a shot and kill. 41:21 [SPEAKER_06]: You decide, hey, I'm sticking with my story and I didn't do this, then that's again what you take. 41:29 [SPEAKER_06]: Because, and you're going to lose. 41:31 [SPEAKER_06]: Or, you can say, hey, look, my life's a complete rack. 41:35 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not in my right mind, and this is what happened. 41:37 [SPEAKER_06]: And we can sit down and talk about it and sort it out right now. 41:41 [SPEAKER_06]: Are you holding on on my hand? 41:43 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll cut you down under my wrist from under, you know that at this point. 41:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. 41:50 [SPEAKER_04]: And you think when you say attorney, what you don't understand, you don't know what you're talking about and that's what you don't understand. 41:59 [SPEAKER_04]: You think you're so smart and so much smarter than everybody else. 42:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, you do. 42:03 [SPEAKER_04]: You thought you could go do this in the middle of the day and you'd get away with it. 42:07 [SPEAKER_04]: And what you know what, the thing is, you know, I'll give this to her. 42:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I actually dislike to you. 42:15 [SPEAKER_04]: You're why? 42:15 [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no. 42:17 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm still going to link that way, but I will give her something with the face with the overwhelming evidence she told the truth. 42:24 [SPEAKER_04]: She has telling the truth and yes, she was going to have a chance to see her kiss before she's old forever again. 42:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Guess who? 42:33 [SPEAKER_04]: It just showed me what she didn't know as a cop. 42:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Now I would have been prepared to be an investigator after four years on the road as a highway patrolman, I guarantee you, and certainly not with a little bit of experience, I'll get it son, right? 42:45 [SPEAKER_06]: But you're incompetent and an attitude of the place is shocking to me because you don't know how to watch you do And let me tell you where you're wrong to him, that most people sit in the seat and don't say anything, not true No, most people go, I can't believe I'm here, I feel terrible, let me tell you what happens I gotta tell you 43:09 [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm not going to be an issue of saying 99% of the people say because that's not true. 43:14 [SPEAKER_06]: But I'll tell you about 88% of the people that I sit down and talk to feel terrible and they realize they've made a mistake and they won't make it right. 43:25 [SPEAKER_06]: Well, this answer may be the best. 43:27 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just sorry, Josh, I haven't got you. 43:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry, but I won't get you over. 43:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. 43:36 [SPEAKER_04]: I've wasn't a question, but no, I'm not asking about anyone. 43:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, they fit into anyone's room. 43:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Because you don't want to face him, they are. 43:45 [SPEAKER_04]: You can't, are you sorry, Josh, and Amber, go kill him? 43:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Are you? 43:51 [SPEAKER_04]: I just said that. 43:52 [SPEAKER_04]: No, you didn't. 43:53 [SPEAKER_04]: What did you say? 43:55 [SPEAKER_04]: You start talking to anyone, just kill him. 43:58 [SPEAKER_04]: That's general advice, that classic, that's the question of deception. 44:03 [SPEAKER_04]: So stuff you don't know about because you've not done this part of the job. 44:06 [SPEAKER_04]: You think you have Tell you I'm sorry Josh and I forgot killed Now I want to know what you did. 44:14 [SPEAKER_04]: You're saying you can't even. 44:16 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not you know because you can't you know what I'm about This dude are you I'm really done with him When we take the same What are we gonna say No divorce 44:33 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't look at me like that, so I look scared. 44:36 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't look like a little girl in you. 44:40 [SPEAKER_04]: You want to scare me down? 44:41 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't look like a little girl. 44:43 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't look like that scared hamburger and that car. 44:49 [SPEAKER_04]: See you would never face me. 44:51 [SPEAKER_04]: How about you getting any fights on this pretty digit? 44:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Legitwoman, that you have to. 44:56 [SPEAKER_04]: And I want you to look right below that one. 45:01 [SPEAKER_04]: So are they just confessed and then located, you know? 45:04 [SPEAKER_04]: The same bullshit she did. 45:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Of course she will. 45:07 [SPEAKER_05]: She was not exactly whatever she wants to. 45:10 [SPEAKER_04]: I bet you already used to be on your ass, didn't you? 45:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I bet she can work your... 45:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Didn't. 45:19 [SPEAKER_04]: I bet you were scared to try it. 45:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Is that why you didn't? 45:23 [SPEAKER_04]: I bet she beat her. 45:26 [SPEAKER_04]: She beat you to the contingent. 45:28 [SPEAKER_04]: You can beat the streets, that's it! 45:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Look at the little cow already, but. 45:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Look at the little cow. 45:33 [SPEAKER_01]: This little boy, this little boy, I knew you saw him back there, right? 45:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Look at the bowl of what we've had. 45:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Sitting in the back seat of the car, are you going to do the right thing? 45:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Tim, if you've done it, if anything comes from this, you've got to do the right thing. 45:45 [SPEAKER_02]: She didn't do anything to anybody. 45:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Tim, how long was she in the driveway? 45:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Did she just pull the driver when you got out there? 45:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, water. 45:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're just... 45:58 [SPEAKER_01]: You are just showing that you are a monster. 46:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You are that monster that everybody's pictured, painted out there, and social media all over the news. 46:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Monster shows up, you know, kills two young parents with young children. 46:12 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what you want to go out at. 46:15 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to go out as a fact that you are trying to defend your family. 46:18 [SPEAKER_03]: He did not need to confess the case did all of the talking, so did the other two. 46:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Because by the time it was over, both trailers and baller had pleaded guilty and agreed to testify against the man at the top of the plot. 46:32 [SPEAKER_03]: By the time Timothy Dean went on trial and Wayne County Corps in May of 2019 in the 46:42 [SPEAKER_03]: The last link in the chain. 46:44 [SPEAKER_03]: The others had already broken. 46:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Boller had pleaded guilty and February to a felony conspiracy charge. 46:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Admitting he had rented the car with an agreement that he would be sentenced to one to three years of he testified truthfully. 46:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Trialers had taken a plea as well to me in slaughter. 47:00 [SPEAKER_03]: The deal that would later draw hard feelings from the people who thought the woman who masterminded it got too soft of a winding, both of them would take the stand against Dean. 47:10 [SPEAKER_03]: The plan that had been billed in secret in Texas would be dismantled in public in New York. 47:15 [SPEAKER_03]: The trial ran four days of testimony. 47:18 [SPEAKER_03]: In a fifth day for deliberation and verdict, Dean was represented by a Rochester attorney named Joseph Demoio, an experienced hand in murder cases, through all of the trial, Dean sat motionless, the reporters in the courtroom kept noting it. 47:33 [SPEAKER_03]: day after day, because it was so striking, he stared straight ahead, while witnesses described the murders he had committed, while his wife described the plot, while forensic biologists explained that his DNA was in the mouth in those of the mask the killer wore. 47:48 [SPEAKER_03]: He did not react, some defend its weave, some shake their heads, some whisper furiously to their warriors. 47:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Dean sat still as a stone and looked at nothing. 47:58 [SPEAKER_03]: The jury got the case on Friday, the 24th of May 2019, and began deliberating around 11 in the morning. 48:06 [SPEAKER_03]: They were thorough, twice the ass to have eyewitness testimony read back, and they asked to see the evidence again, including the Kansas Body Camera footage. 48:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Dean armed and on the road and lying about why. 48:18 [SPEAKER_03]: In the end, they convicted him on everything, first-degree murder, two counts of second-degree murder, one-for-each victim, second-degree conspiracy, two counts of second-degree criminal possession of a weapon, 48:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Every count, the prosecution had charged the jury returned guilty. 48:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Timothy Dean, former chief of police, was a convicted murderer on all counts. 48:40 [SPEAKER_03]: When the verdicts were read, the courtroom came apart on one side and stayed frozen on the other. 48:46 [SPEAKER_03]: The families of Josh Niles and Amber Washburn. 48:49 [SPEAKER_03]: who would sat through every day of it, broke down, and their emotion rose loud enough in the gallery, that the judge had to quiet them. 48:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Across the room, Dean did the thing he had done all week. 49:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing. 49:01 [SPEAKER_03]: He remained motionless as the word guilty came back six times, his face giving away no more at the end than it had at the beginning. 49:09 [SPEAKER_03]: The same stillness that passed for composure during the trial looked at the moment of conviction, like what the sentencing judge would soon call it outright, the bearing of a man with something missing. 49:21 [SPEAKER_03]: The sentencing came that summer, on the second of August 2019, back in Wayne County courthouse in Lyons, and had drew the victim's family out in force. 49:31 [SPEAKER_03]: They filled the courtroom. 49:33 [SPEAKER_03]: One after another, they rose to address the man who would kill Josh and Amber. 49:38 [SPEAKER_03]: They did not mention. 49:39 [SPEAKER_03]: They called him a coward. 49:40 [SPEAKER_03]: They called him a psychopath. 49:42 [SPEAKER_03]: They asked the judge to give him the most the law allowed. 49:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And through their words again, Dean did not look at them. 49:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And he remained cold. 49:50 [SPEAKER_03]: The judge Daniel Barrett gave them what they asked for. 49:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And he did not hide what he thought of the man who signed front of him. 49:57 [SPEAKER_03]: He called Dean a classic psychopath. 50:00 [SPEAKER_03]: He told him that his actions were among the most horrendous, and inhumane, and purely evil acts the judge had encountered in his career, and that Dean would certainly die in prison. 50:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Then he handed down the sentence that matched the words, life in prison, without the possibility of parole. 50:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Charlie and Childeers, the woman the whole thing began with, the one who wanted Nile's dead, and said so, and pointed her husband at him, and helped him get back on the road when his car wrecked in Kansas, did not get wife. 50:29 [SPEAKER_03]: She pleaded to me in slaughter, and was sentenced that summer to 28 years in a state prison. 50:35 [SPEAKER_03]: 28 years is a long time. 50:37 [SPEAKER_03]: It is also measured against a husband who got wife without parole, for carrying out what she wanted. 50:42 [SPEAKER_03]: A strikingly wider thing, in the gap between the two sentences, does not sit easily. 50:49 [SPEAKER_03]: There is one more person who has to be in this account, and he is the one who can say the least about it. 50:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Joshua Niles Jr. was strapped into the back of a seat of his mother's car when his mother pulled into the driveway and into the middle of a murder. 51:05 [SPEAKER_03]: He was in the car when she threw into reverse to try to save them both. 51:08 [SPEAKER_03]: He was also in the car when she was shy in the head. 51:11 [SPEAKER_03]: He was in the car when it rolled backwards across Carlton Street, with his dead mother at the wheel, and when it came to rest. 51:18 [SPEAKER_03]: By walk alone, against the neighbor's driveway instead of into traffic or tree, he was not physically hurt. 51:25 [SPEAKER_03]: He was four, a little boy with autism, who would just lost both the people raising him in a space of a minute in his own driveway, and who was too young to be given any version of why that would ever make sense, because there is no version 51:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Because the Y ran back to a custody fight, and a marriage in Texas, and a hatred that had nothing to do with him, that children were taken in by family. 51:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Josh Niles' children, the ones who the whole custody fight had been about, the ones charling trailers had lost and went back so badly, that two people died for it, went to live with Josh's sister. 52:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Tyler's pain in the end accomplished the precise opposite of its goal. 52:07 [SPEAKER_03]: She wanted custody of her children. 52:09 [SPEAKER_03]: What she got was a 28-year prison sentence, and children who grew up knowing that their mother arranged the murder of their father. 52:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Whenever she imagined on the far side of Josh Nile's death is not that, it's never that. 52:23 [SPEAKER_03]: The fantasy that drives these plots, that with the obstacles removed that one life will finally arrive, dies the instant, the obstacle becomes the body, because the body does not clear the path. 52:36 [SPEAKER_03]: It becomes the path, the thing everyone involved will be walking around for the rest of their lives.
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