0:02 [SPEAKER_03]: The case did not fade from the city. 0:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Most unsolved homicides, even terrible ones were seed. 0:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Public attention moves on within a new cycle. 0:12 [SPEAKER_03]: The detectives carry them privately, but the city forgets, baby Moses was different. 0:17 [SPEAKER_03]: One of the few mercies in a story, the other wise has none. 0:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Albany did not forget him. 0:23 [SPEAKER_03]: The grave at Graceland Cemetery became a place people visited. 0:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Strangers left trinkets there. 0:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Toys, small stones, flowers. 0:32 [SPEAKER_03]: The kind of thing people we've had a grave for children. 0:35 [SPEAKER_03]: They were left for a child none of them had known. 0:37 [SPEAKER_03]: by people who simply could not bear the math of him. 0:40 [SPEAKER_03]: A whole life, a few hours long, lying under a stone in a cemetery. 0:45 [SPEAKER_03]: The detectives who had worked at kept it with them, it comes up again and again in the accounts that officers gave, and these are not sentimental people by profession. 0:54 [SPEAKER_03]: A police commander, who's not even on the force, then, said years later that retired detective still thought about the case every single day. 1:02 [SPEAKER_03]: It came up at retirements and reunions, the case that would not resolve. 1:07 [SPEAKER_03]: The one a man took with him out the door, when he handed in his shield. 1:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Some of them kept their own copies of the file at home. 1:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Some of them drove out to Graceland on the anniversary. 1:17 [SPEAKER_03]: The department never had to remind anyone the case was still open. 1:21 [SPEAKER_03]: It stayed open in the men themselves, which is more durable kind of custody than any evidence room provides. 1:28 [SPEAKER_03]: An officer who had been a young patrolman when the body was found, called at our horrific day for Albany Police, the discovery, and the not knowing what had happened, the not knowing was the part that lodged in people and stayed. 1:41 [SPEAKER_03]: And over the years, the case acquired custodians. 1:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Detective Riley carried it. 1:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Detective Bob Weiss carried it. 1:47 [SPEAKER_03]: The investigators who came after carried it. 1:50 [SPEAKER_03]: It was the case that got handed down. 1:52 [SPEAKER_03]: The one older detectives told the younger ones about. 1:55 [SPEAKER_03]: The department could not let it become just another cold file. 1:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Because too many of them had helped put him in the ground. 2:13 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you. 2:49 [UNKNOWN]: You 2:54 [SPEAKER_06]: We need you to come with us. 2:55 [SPEAKER_06]: We'll explain everything when we get where we have to go. 2:58 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay? 2:59 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but we need you to help you out with this. 3:00 [SPEAKER_06]: It'll make sense in a minute. 3:01 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay? 3:02 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, vehicle stay right here. 3:03 [SPEAKER_06]: The troopers. 3:04 [SPEAKER_06]: They sure get locked up and everything, but it's imperative that you come with them. 3:07 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay? 3:08 [SPEAKER_06]: All right. 3:08 [SPEAKER_06]: So we want to just come right this way. 3:09 [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks. 3:10 [SPEAKER_07]: Look right there. 3:11 [SPEAKER_06]: That's great. 3:12 [SPEAKER_06]: Right there. 3:13 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. 3:13 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry, but it's our policy. 3:15 [SPEAKER_06]: If you pour it, you get our people. 3:17 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, this way. 3:18 [SPEAKER_06]: Female with us. 3:18 [SPEAKER_06]: We just need to make sure you don't have any weapons or anything like that. 3:22 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to grab myself on the cover. 3:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Am I going to be late? 3:27 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't see it. 3:28 [SPEAKER_06]: What time do you have to be at work? 3:29 [SPEAKER_04]: 30. 3:29 [SPEAKER_06]: I think you should be okay. 3:30 [SPEAKER_06]: We'll grab it for you if you like. 3:32 [SPEAKER_06]: Where is it? 3:33 [SPEAKER_06]: Washington, have a set check. 3:34 [SPEAKER_06]: No, you're fine. 3:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and there should be right in the panel. 3:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Like at the couple. 3:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Double. 3:39 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. 3:39 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. 3:40 [SPEAKER_06]: All right. 3:42 [SPEAKER_06]: Hang on. 3:42 [SPEAKER_06]: Hang on. 3:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So what happened? 3:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't put my signal in on until. 3:48 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you know those troopers. 3:49 [SPEAKER_06]: They're always worried about vehicle and traffic on. 3:53 [SPEAKER_06]: I think that's what I heard him saying when you came in, you might not have. 3:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Can I have my phone? 3:59 [SPEAKER_06]: We have it. 4:00 [SPEAKER_06]: Can I have my phone? 4:02 [SPEAKER_06]: Just one second, please. 4:04 [SPEAKER_06]: And we'll get you on the call work and somebody else. 4:06 [SPEAKER_04]: I just want to text work, yes. 4:08 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. 4:09 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, if you just, do you mind giving our phone? 4:13 [SPEAKER_06]: So you're just like, no, she's just going to be late. 4:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Where are we going? 4:17 [SPEAKER_06]: Right down to our station. 4:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Am I getting a ticket or anything? 4:21 [SPEAKER_06]: Or... Well, I mean, you've been pretty cooperative, so I don't think it'd be getting a ticket. 4:25 [SPEAKER_04]: This is like the first for me. 4:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like shaking. 4:28 [SPEAKER_06]: So you're okay? 4:29 [SPEAKER_06]: No, no, no, no, you're fine. 4:30 [SPEAKER_06]: Seriously, relax. 4:32 [SPEAKER_06]: You're not in danger or anything you're fine. 4:35 [SPEAKER_04]: No human trafficking here. 4:36 [SPEAKER_06]: No, no, no, you're good. 4:38 [SPEAKER_07]: All right, Gary. 4:42 [SPEAKER_07]: Give me how nice the weather is. 4:46 [SPEAKER_07]: This elevator is probably older than all of us put the on it's kind of sorry this is a closet I don't know if it's the slowest elevator but it's one of the top five 4:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Altamon sits up against the Heldberg and Cartman, with a win-lifts out of the Hudson Valley and a farm country in hardwood ridges, a quiet place of old houses and long views, and narrow roads where the park cars get noticed. 5:13 [SPEAKER_03]: It was the back end of summer when the investigators came out there. 5:17 [SPEAKER_03]: The corn high in the fields, the hills heavy and green. 5:20 [SPEAKER_03]: The heat sitting in the valley, below as it does in August, 5:24 [SPEAKER_03]: before the first cool nights arrive, 12 miles and 27 years from the flower bed, and she had built a whole life in those hills, and almost no one in them knew her by the name she was born with. 5:36 [SPEAKER_03]: She went to work. 5:37 [SPEAKER_03]: She came home. 5:38 [SPEAKER_03]: She ran her errands on the narrow roads between the farms. 5:41 [SPEAKER_03]: There was nothing in the surface of any of it to suggest what the DNA said was underneath. 5:46 [SPEAKER_03]: That was the most unsettling thing about it. 5:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever she had done in the September of 1997, 5:52 [SPEAKER_03]: She carried it into the ordinary daylight of the years since, and let none of it show. 5:57 [SPEAKER_06]: We kind of have a little bit of a mystery on our hands all said that we're trying to sort out, all right. 6:04 [SPEAKER_06]: So with that being said, I'm going to read you a few things. 6:07 [SPEAKER_06]: These don't mean they're trouble by any means, okay, but because there's some unknowns that we're dealing with, I want to make sure you understand them, and then we can kind of explain what's going on. 6:17 [SPEAKER_06]: We're looking into something that happened quite a few years ago. 6:23 [SPEAKER_06]: back in 1997. 6:25 [SPEAKER_06]: So some remains were found in Washington Park, okay. 6:33 [SPEAKER_06]: And you know, it's been a long time since it's happened. 6:35 [SPEAKER_06]: We've been kind of working on it here and there. 6:39 [SPEAKER_06]: And we've been deploying a new investigative technique, right? 6:43 [SPEAKER_06]: Do you wish like any of the stuff on the news like genealogy stuff? 6:47 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 6:48 [SPEAKER_03]: On September 6th, 2024, the detectives brought Carrie Mazuka into an interview room at the Albany Police Department. 6:57 [SPEAKER_03]: By coincidence that the human mind insists on treating as a meaningful event, it was 27 years, less a single day since a park crew had found her son in the flower bed. 7:08 [SPEAKER_03]: The case had been borne on September 7th, 1997. 7:12 [SPEAKER_03]: What happened in that room was captured on video later released by the Albany County District Attorney's Office. 7:19 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. 7:20 [SPEAKER_06]: So what we do is we kind of go to some third party companies, like Ancestry.com, and try and build family trees. 7:29 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. 7:29 [SPEAKER_06]: So part of that is the remains, the DNA testing of the remains that we found, are connected to your family. 7:40 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. 7:43 [SPEAKER_06]: Right, the therming's best we can tell. 7:46 [SPEAKER_06]: And we obviously don't know really what happened. 7:49 [SPEAKER_06]: It's just one of those things that they're trying to get us to figure out and use this, it's crazy, right? 7:55 [SPEAKER_06]: No one in the family's talked about losing someone that never got accounted for younger, but young. 8:03 [SPEAKER_04]: No, they're all accounted for that. 8:05 [SPEAKER_06]: But I know that was anybody pregnant and then like, no one never saw the kid or anything. 8:13 [SPEAKER_04]: No, not that I'm aware of. 8:15 [SPEAKER_06]: So you said you have two kids, right? 8:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. 8:17 [SPEAKER_06]: OK. Any other kids? 8:22 [SPEAKER_04]: No. 8:23 [SPEAKER_06]: No. 8:24 [SPEAKER_06]: No. 8:26 [SPEAKER_06]: I know it's kind of a personal question, but it's one thing that's going to ask. 8:30 [SPEAKER_06]: How many times have you been pregnant? 8:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Two. 8:33 [SPEAKER_06]: Two. 8:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. 8:34 [SPEAKER_06]: OK. 8:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Very easy, very easy pregnancies. 8:38 [SPEAKER_06]: No issues. 8:39 [SPEAKER_06]: We're not after because like my wife, she got the postpartum, never get that stuff. 8:44 [SPEAKER_04]: I've been using that for so many people and Roxbury, like I was the talent babysitter. 8:50 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. 8:51 [SPEAKER_04]: That I think, you know, what I had my kids was easy for me because I'm used to crying, screaming, children. 8:59 [SPEAKER_03]: It is one of the more disturbing documents in this case, not for any violence, because there is none, but for the absence of something everyone expects to be present and finds is not. 9:09 [SPEAKER_03]: The detectives who ran the interview had spent decades on this case, Detective Rob Loyre, would later describe Mazuka and playing terms. 9:18 [SPEAKER_03]: He called her a cold woman, very stoic, he said, very matter-effect, and obviously capable of horrible things. 9:28 [SPEAKER_03]: The interview killers from living, and most even the worst, show something across the table. 9:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Fear or pervato, are the hunger to explain themselves. 9:38 [SPEAKER_03]: One settled the men in the room, was how little there was to read. 9:41 [SPEAKER_03]: When the detective showed her the photograph of the child, the one thing from that September morning, no innocent relative could see unmoved. 9:49 [SPEAKER_03]: She gasped. 9:50 [SPEAKER_03]: It is on the table, a small involuntary intake of breath. 9:54 [SPEAKER_03]: The body reacting before the management 9:57 [SPEAKER_06]: This is a baby, if you couldn't tell. 10:00 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah. 10:00 [SPEAKER_06]: You have to allow it. 10:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, that's gross. 10:04 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know. 10:04 [SPEAKER_04]: So the remains were found there. 10:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Can I show you that? 10:07 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 10:08 [SPEAKER_06]: So are you familiar with this area at all? 10:14 [SPEAKER_04]: With an Washington park? 10:16 [SPEAKER_04]: I've seen it during two of us, though. 10:18 [SPEAKER_06]: These flower beds are over here, right by this road. 10:21 [SPEAKER_06]: This is where the remains are found. 10:27 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but I mean, he's, I'm sorry. 10:30 [SPEAKER_06]: I've got a few spots. 10:33 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, it's horrible. 10:34 [SPEAKER_06]: So this is a very new born baby that gets found. 10:41 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and we're trying to hash that out. 10:45 [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, you're in mind, what would cause someone to leave a baby in a place? 10:51 [SPEAKER_06]: Anything you could think of? 10:53 [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, because 10:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Hospitals, seat places, like- Yeah, I mean, that's what we're trying to wrap our head around. 11:08 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't. 11:09 [SPEAKER_04]: No idea. 11:10 [SPEAKER_04]: No idea. 11:11 [SPEAKER_06]: That's- I mean, severe some agramating factors with this as well. 11:16 [SPEAKER_04]: I think especially like, how- how- Right. 11:22 [SPEAKER_06]: Some part of this is we're going around, we're trying to collect DNA samples from people. 11:29 [SPEAKER_06]: that remains in that, that we're doing. 11:31 [SPEAKER_06]: Is that something we'll be able to help us out? 11:32 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's much the sample of DNA. 11:34 [SPEAKER_06]: The other part of it is this, I'm not saying I don't believe you by a means, right? 11:40 [SPEAKER_06]: But one of the other things, we kind of, so, the best way to describe it is we're mixing old school and new school, right? 11:46 [SPEAKER_06]: We're doing this new school, DNA stuff. 11:48 [SPEAKER_06]: But we're also doing the old school in the sense of, people are willing to do it. 11:54 [SPEAKER_06]: We're trying to bring it back. 11:55 [SPEAKER_06]: Would you be willing to take a polygraph examination 11:59 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. 12:00 [SPEAKER_06]: Awesome. 12:01 [SPEAKER_06]: Appreciate it. 12:02 [SPEAKER_06]: Hang tight once I. 12:04 [SPEAKER_06]: So I'm sorry I got to show you this, but I do because it isn't important. 12:10 [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe we'd actually sell out fire. 12:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god. 12:14 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. 12:16 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so not only was it a band in but. 12:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god. 12:19 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. 12:20 [SPEAKER_06]: So we're trying to figure out, you know, who did it? 12:28 [SPEAKER_06]: that it's crazy, but as I said, everything's explainable, but it's not me, I don't know, especially when we can prove it, that's not a sign you want to be, or someone wants to be issues. 12:48 [SPEAKER_06]: If someone is truly related or the mother or father of this child, the best thing they could do when we talk to them, 12:57 [SPEAKER_06]: And this is just me thinking that loud is the best thing they could do when we talk to is be truthful, right? 13:03 [SPEAKER_06]: Because what they do is we end up, you know, we go, we get DNA, we make comparisons. 13:09 [SPEAKER_06]: And God helps someone if they lie. 13:10 [SPEAKER_06]: Because all you have is your credibility, right? 13:13 [SPEAKER_06]: Because 27 years ago, baby Moses sits bound here for hate. 13:21 [SPEAKER_06]: And say we say you are, mom, right? 13:24 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not saying it, aren't we? 13:27 [SPEAKER_06]: and we bring that you down here and you say no, I'm not the one there, I was never pregnant then. 13:32 [SPEAKER_06]: What if that's not true? 13:35 [SPEAKER_06]: Like we could figure all that stuff out, right? 13:37 [SPEAKER_03]: It was the photograph. 13:39 [SPEAKER_03]: The burned remains of the child and the flower bed that broke it open. 13:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Showing the image, Carrie Muzuka said, with casual indifference, the words that ended the 27-year search I did it. 13:51 [SPEAKER_06]: And then what happens is, we go, hey, guess what, we found this baby? 13:57 [SPEAKER_06]: dead and burned. 14:00 [SPEAKER_06]: And the mother said she's not the mother. 14:02 [SPEAKER_06]: What's that screen to? 14:05 [SPEAKER_06]: If you're as well. 14:06 [SPEAKER_04]: I did it. 14:06 [SPEAKER_04]: I did it. 14:09 [SPEAKER_06]: You did it? 14:10 [SPEAKER_04]: I did it. 14:11 [SPEAKER_03]: And then almost in the same breath she began to manage it. 14:15 [SPEAKER_03]: The first version she offered was the most 14:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't know how to get rid of that. 14:28 [SPEAKER_06]: How did the baby die? 14:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I think I had water in the bath, so I think it drowned. 14:33 [SPEAKER_06]: You drowned it? 14:34 [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't drown it. 14:40 [SPEAKER_06]: Did that death happen? 14:46 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. 14:49 [SPEAKER_06]: Inside that apartment. 14:51 [SPEAKER_06]: Right there? 14:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. 14:53 [SPEAKER_06]: Why is your burden based? 14:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't burn the baby. 14:58 [SPEAKER_06]: Who did? 14:58 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know who did. 15:00 [SPEAKER_06]: Who'd you get the baby to? 15:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I had the baby by myself. 15:03 [SPEAKER_04]: I went down to the park. 15:04 [SPEAKER_04]: I handed it to somebody. 15:06 [SPEAKER_06]: Who'd you? 15:07 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know. 15:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Some random person. 15:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Here you go. 15:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I swear that. 15:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I got pregnant, she said. 15:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I had the baby in my bathtub. 15:18 [SPEAKER_03]: The baby died. 15:19 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know how to get rid of it. 15:21 [SPEAKER_03]: And that telling the death is passive, the baby died as if of its own accord. 15:26 [SPEAKER_03]: And her only wrongdoing was the panic after. 15:28 [SPEAKER_03]: They're not knowing what to do with the body. 15:31 [SPEAKER_03]: She denied burning him. 15:33 [SPEAKER_03]: She offered instead a story in which she had placed the body in a bag and handed it to a random person at the park. 15:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Some stranger who, in her own telling, had done the rest. 15:43 [SPEAKER_03]: The detectives had a problem with that, and told her so. 15:47 [SPEAKER_06]: You do not hand this to you, you will ram a person. 15:51 [SPEAKER_06]: That didn't happen. 15:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I did, don't want to do. 15:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I said, I mean, you have a fire. 15:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Was it screaming? 15:59 [SPEAKER_04]: No, it was sad. 16:01 [SPEAKER_04]: It was sad. 16:02 [SPEAKER_03]: The autopsy did not support a baby who simply died during childbirth. 16:07 [SPEAKER_03]: The child had been born alive and healthy. 16:09 [SPEAKER_03]: A healthy baby does not die in a normal birth and then require disposal. 16:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Her story was not adding up, and they set as much in the ground shifted again. 16:19 [SPEAKER_06]: This baby was breathing for three minutes. 16:22 [SPEAKER_06]: This baby was alive. 16:24 [SPEAKER_04]: I hadn't... 16:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I did. 16:26 [SPEAKER_06]: This... that doesn't lie. 16:30 [SPEAKER_06]: Let's all, this is 27 years ago. 16:32 [SPEAKER_06]: Let's clean this up. 16:34 [SPEAKER_06]: Let's be done with this year and now. 16:36 [SPEAKER_06]: That baby died not an actual causes. 16:39 [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't kill the baby, then I'm a liar out. 16:41 [SPEAKER_04]: I had it in the bathtub. 16:43 [SPEAKER_06]: It didn't drown, there's no water at the lungs. 16:45 [SPEAKER_06]: That didn't happen. 16:48 [SPEAKER_06]: It's not a natural causes. 16:50 [SPEAKER_06]: There's no trauma so that leaves one thing. 16:53 [SPEAKER_06]: And you know what that one thing is? 16:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Suffocation? 17:00 [SPEAKER_06]: And do this, that's fine. 17:03 [SPEAKER_06]: We need to know what. 17:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. 17:07 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, well. 17:08 [SPEAKER_06]: Check some paint at the time of... With what? 17:11 [SPEAKER_06]: Put it in the bag. 17:11 [SPEAKER_06]: Put it in the bag. 17:14 [SPEAKER_06]: Do you hear baby crying and screaming? 17:16 [SPEAKER_06]: Take it back. 17:16 [SPEAKER_06]: Do you hear baby crying? 17:18 [SPEAKER_06]: No, it's swear. 17:20 [SPEAKER_04]: I thought I would remember, I don't hit. 17:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Because I don't know, I don't remember hearing baby crying. 17:24 [SPEAKER_07]: What kind of bag? 17:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I think like a little more. 17:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Take a plastic bag. 17:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Take a plastic bag. 17:32 [SPEAKER_06]: And then, how'd you have done the washing part? 17:36 [SPEAKER_06]: So, how do you get it from the apartment to your car? 17:39 [SPEAKER_04]: I have the plastic bag. 17:41 [SPEAKER_04]: I like to put it in the bag, in the towel, and put it in my car. 17:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, carry that, like, carry that, like it was groceries. 17:49 [SPEAKER_06]: Carry that, like, it was groceries. 17:52 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 17:52 [SPEAKER_06]: Trying to sound like, you know what, I mean, digging that out like it's trash, actually, you know? 17:57 [SPEAKER_04]: I did. 17:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 17:59 [SPEAKER_06]: Did you have any mind like I'm going to go to Washington Park or were you just I think I was just I was just driving I was just driving I didn't know what I was doing and where was the bag of groceries that you'd throw out of that I'm a vaccine. 18:11 [SPEAKER_06]: Well, now we're going to talk about the part where the baby subscreed And we got to do an honest account of how we each shot Not I think is this is something you don't forget 18:27 [SPEAKER_06]: You probably haven't thought about it in a long time, but it's definitely something you don't forget. 18:32 [SPEAKER_04]: I put my hands over, it's not the most. 18:35 [SPEAKER_06]: Are you sure? 18:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 18:40 [SPEAKER_06]: And then they press out? 18:43 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. 18:46 [SPEAKER_04]: I think. 18:47 [SPEAKER_04]: I think. 18:49 [SPEAKER_06]: No, not I think. 18:49 [SPEAKER_06]: It's either dinner, dinner, dinner, dinner. 18:52 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not pressing to say something. 18:53 [SPEAKER_06]: But I need a definitive answer here. 18:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. 18:57 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, what? 18:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I pressed down. 19:02 [SPEAKER_06]: Did the baby stop crying when you did that? 19:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Again, I don't remember the baby crying, but my must have, I don't remember the baby crying. 19:09 [SPEAKER_06]: I, I want you to think back to 1997. 19:12 [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you had your hand over on the nose. 19:15 [SPEAKER_06]: Did you feel those little breaths sitting your hand? 19:17 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. 19:19 [SPEAKER_06]: How long until it's stopped? 19:25 [SPEAKER_04]: 10 minutes? 19:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know. 19:27 [SPEAKER_06]: to help you in or to be in this sentence. 19:29 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't. 19:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Timing, I don't know. 19:32 [SPEAKER_04]: I started to walk away. 19:34 [SPEAKER_04]: And then I was afraid that there might be evidence on the towel. 19:39 [SPEAKER_06]: So much of a baby, it was... You were trying to give her the towel. 19:43 [SPEAKER_06]: The towel. 19:43 [SPEAKER_04]: You afraid my fingerprints would have whatever would be on the towel. 19:47 [SPEAKER_04]: So I wasn't setting the baby on the fire. 19:50 [SPEAKER_04]: I was setting the towel on fire. 19:57 [SPEAKER_06]: So why not just keep the towel off and set it on fire or keep it with it that Yeah, no, because those man We not the right headset, you know not the right frame of mind Fair enough. 20:10 [SPEAKER_06]: Have you ever told me? 20:11 [SPEAKER_06]: No They're getting Well, they were told anybody mom dad. 20:14 [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no 20:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't, I don't, I didn't watch that last day. 20:29 [SPEAKER_06]: So a lot of people actually show up to that funeral. 20:38 [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you. 20:40 [SPEAKER_06]: A lot of people for a lot of years. 20:44 [SPEAKER_06]: Wanted to know. 20:46 [SPEAKER_06]: Not even for someone to be in trouble. 20:47 [SPEAKER_06]: No people don't care. 20:48 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't want to just want to know. 20:50 [SPEAKER_04]: I just, you know, I just, even today, I did. 20:56 [SPEAKER_06]: If you could say anything to that baby right now, what would it be? 20:59 [SPEAKER_06]: I love you, I'm sorry. 21:03 [SPEAKER_06]: If you ask you, why'd you do this to me? 21:06 [SPEAKER_06]: I was young, stupid, and you went into the bathtub where you rent warm water or something? 21:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 21:13 [SPEAKER_06]: Where you rent warm water, and then you deliver the baby, you pull the baby out. 21:20 [SPEAKER_06]: You cut the available court, cut it with your right hand, you're letting. 21:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm right handed right now. 21:26 [SPEAKER_06]: right hand them. 21:27 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. 21:28 [SPEAKER_06]: You were called baby moving around. 21:30 [SPEAKER_06]: You don't recall if you were trying but you know there was a lot of kids who was moving. 21:34 [SPEAKER_06]: You put the baby down. 21:37 [SPEAKER_06]: You put the note or you take care of yourself and then you place your hand over to the baby's nose and mouth and apply pressure until the baby stops moving. 21:52 [SPEAKER_06]: Did you know you're going to 21:56 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I think yes, so you tell you you knew what you were doing, but you did correct. 22:04 [SPEAKER_04]: I knew what I was doing. 22:05 [SPEAKER_04]: I was doing. 22:06 [SPEAKER_04]: I was stupid. 22:06 [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't, you know, okay, so you intentionally killed this baby then after about an hour you go to Washington Park and set the baby on fire and if that baby were alive today, you would say I love you. 22:23 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry. 22:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Now that I'm older, why is there have kids and, yeah, why? 22:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Why did I do it? 22:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 22:34 [SPEAKER_04]: I think I just had no clue what I, I mean, I was just in shock. 22:40 [SPEAKER_06]: Are you sure? 22:41 [SPEAKER_06]: How did you met the one? 22:44 [SPEAKER_04]: You were working together. 22:45 [SPEAKER_06]: Did you like him? 22:46 [SPEAKER_06]: Not him. 22:47 [SPEAKER_04]: He was engaged to you. 22:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we weren't. 22:49 [SPEAKER_04]: We were just part of the public. 22:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he doesn't even know about this. 22:56 [SPEAKER_06]: What's it feel like to kill someone? 22:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Terrible. 23:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Terrible. 23:01 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, you walk me through your emotions. 23:03 [SPEAKER_06]: I always ask everyone that's killed someone if you're not the first person. 23:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Same embarrassment. 23:08 [SPEAKER_04]: She took it on myself. 23:10 [SPEAKER_06]: When did that kick him? 23:11 [SPEAKER_04]: To medially? 23:12 [SPEAKER_06]: After you did it? 23:14 [SPEAKER_03]: What the case did next has never fully been explained. 23:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Carrie Mazuka having set in an interview room and said the words she did, having admitted to suffocating her newborn son and setting his body on fire was allowed to leave. 23:29 [SPEAKER_03]: She was not arrested that day. 23:31 [SPEAKER_03]: She gave her confession and then she stood up and she walked out of the building and she went home to Ultimond, a woman who had just confessed on tape to killing a child, free. 23:41 [SPEAKER_06]: So now what now I mean we got to figure out what's what now. 23:45 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't want to obviously just take a second process everything we just talked about business and I'm sure you do change. 23:51 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean am I a trouble am I I did am I I just don't know Carrie um You know what do you think should happen out of this Personally if it was years ago, I think I should be in trouble when he's seven years later I've got my life back in order. 24:08 [SPEAKER_04]: I I don't know right I mean I did 24:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I did it. 24:14 [SPEAKER_06]: Good what? 24:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I killed a child. 24:16 [SPEAKER_04]: I killed a baby. 24:18 [SPEAKER_06]: Did that mean? 24:19 [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I... We should say you murdered it. 24:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I would have to say that's what I did. 24:26 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, it's been a long time. 24:28 [SPEAKER_04]: What's happening? 24:30 [SPEAKER_06]: You don't know. 24:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Am I being charged or arrested? 24:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Anything? 24:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Oops. 24:34 [SPEAKER_04]: There's not going to be any news like tomorrow. 24:37 [SPEAKER_04]: So I have to warm my parents. 24:40 [SPEAKER_06]: No, it's not going to be on the news, right? 24:43 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, now moving forward is a possible that you could be arrested at some point in the maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm worried about my career and everything too, you know, rightfully so. 24:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, I'm sorry, you know, like I worked on my kids and my relationship with my kids. 25:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, yeah, you know, I mean, they don't speak with their father all on all they have. 25:06 [SPEAKER_04]: And this couldn't. 25:10 [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, here's staying everyone's got skeletons in their closet. 25:12 [SPEAKER_06]: It's just a different degree, right? 25:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but this is killing somebody. 25:16 [SPEAKER_04]: You're hurting me like this is actual murder. 25:19 [SPEAKER_04]: The mind, like, I'm supposed to be going floor. 25:21 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to remind three to go floor to end the number. 25:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Or is that a down the road thing? 25:25 [SPEAKER_06]: Is that it? 25:26 [SPEAKER_06]: That's a down the road thing. 25:28 [SPEAKER_06]: Let's take a one thing in a time here. 25:31 [SPEAKER_03]: journalist who later reviewed the reports and the video came to the same open question, one the official record does not put to rest. 25:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Why was she free after confessing? 25:41 [SPEAKER_03]: The likelyest answer is the unglamorous business of how a serious case is built. 25:46 [SPEAKER_03]: A confession, even a recorded one, is the beginning of a prosecution, not the end. 25:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Prosecutors moving on a 27-year-old homicide would have wanted the charging decision exactly right, the evidence sequenced, the warrants clean, the second-guessing, donated vans rather than in the courtroom later, and arrest made an hour too early, or a case this old in this watch can cost more than it gains. 26:12 [SPEAKER_03]: There is a awful, careful reading of the gap. 26:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever the legal reasons, the plain fact of its stage strange, she confessed to a killing that haunted the city for decades, and then she went home and made dinner. 26:25 [SPEAKER_03]: The wall took its measured time, and only later did it come back for her. 26:29 [SPEAKER_03]: It was the same stretch of the calendar where the whole thing began. 26:33 [SPEAKER_03]: The first cool nights of September, coming in the Helderburgs. 26:37 [SPEAKER_03]: The corn going gold, the maple starting to turn at the ridge lines, as they had turned every September for 27 years, while the case sat on the insert. 26:47 [SPEAKER_03]: She had a few more of these ordinary autumn days. 26:50 [SPEAKER_03]: She made dinner in her kitchen with the windows open to the cool near. 26:54 [SPEAKER_03]: She slept. 26:55 [SPEAKER_03]: She woke to the white coming up over the escarpment and did whatever a person does within ordinary day. 27:01 [SPEAKER_03]: It came back on the 14th of September 2024. 27:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Carrie Mazuko was arrested and charged. 27:07 [SPEAKER_03]: The serious charges, second-degree murder, tampering with evidence, concealment of a human corpse. 27:14 [SPEAKER_03]: The interval was over. 27:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever she had done with those few free days, whatever she had told the family around her, the door that stood open since she walked out of that interview room, now closed, and would not open again. 27:27 [SPEAKER_03]: From that day forward, she was at last in custody for the death of the 27:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a tragedy beyond measure. 27:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Those were the words that Judge McDonald said over and over again to carry Mazuka of this this morning. 27:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Sensing her to 25 years in prison for killing her newborn infant back more than 25 years ago. 27:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Now Mazuka pleaded guilty to manslaughter and tampering with physical evidence before she was sent and she gave a brief subdued statement acknowledging regret but offering little emotion and explanation. 28:04 [SPEAKER_04]: I apologize for the whole time, and I live with being worse and regret. 28:08 [SPEAKER_04]: I am a great mom, I live with law-abiding, light, and I do deserve a lengthy sentence. 28:16 [SPEAKER_05]: I just hope you use some discussion and go with the lower end. 28:20 [SPEAKER_05]: It's a tragedy beyond measure because what possible sentence could this court impose that would compensate for and redress the death sentence you gave to baby Moses? 28:33 [SPEAKER_05]: or the life sentence you gave to yourself. 28:36 [SPEAKER_03]: He called the killing a tragedy beyond measure, and then he said the thing that no sentence can answer. 28:41 [SPEAKER_03]: How can I measure what he would have accomplished in his life? 28:45 [SPEAKER_03]: He'd be 27 now. 28:47 [SPEAKER_03]: He sentenced Carrie Mazuka to 25 years in prison on the Manslaughter Conviction, the top of the negotiated range. 28:54 [SPEAKER_03]: On the tampering charge, the fire, he imposed an additional term of one and one-third to four years to run concurrently, 29:05 [SPEAKER_03]: She was 53 years old at sentencing. 29:08 [SPEAKER_03]: She will be an old woman if she lives when she comes out. 29:12 [SPEAKER_03]: The child she killed was a few hours old. 29:16 [SPEAKER_03]: The case is over now, the science found his mother, her in a core room, and her in a cell. 29:22 [SPEAKER_03]: If found his father, a man who had never known he existed, it gave the boy in the flower bed a bloodline, a family tree, the one thing it could never give him was a name, 29:35 [SPEAKER_03]: The name the stranger's carved is still the only name he ever had. 29:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Moses Washington, the first line on the stone stud, the second line stud too, in the case itself was the proof. 29:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Citizen of Albany was a title conferred on a child who lived one night. 29:51 [SPEAKER_03]: In the city spent 27 years making it true, with a funeral, and a vigil of small stones on a rise, and detectives who would not put the final down, and students who were not yet born when he died, whatever else a citizen is, and is someone the city refuses to lose, and he was that. 30:10 [SPEAKER_03]: The third line is one no case can reach. 30:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Child of God was carved as a hope, and it stayed a hope through everything. 30:17 [SPEAKER_03]: because no lab and no verdict goes that far. 30:20 [SPEAKER_03]: It is either true or it is not. 30:22 [SPEAKER_03]: But the living had carved it, or something like it, over their children for as long as there have been children to bury. 30:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And every language, he mattered. 30:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And nothing done to him in the dark, ever made that untrue. 30:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Let him sleep under his three lines, the two of the city provided, and the one it could only hope. 30:40 [SPEAKER_03]: And if the dead dream, let it be warm, let it be warm, and let it make up for the single night
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