0:05 [SPEAKER_00]: This episode is focused less on history than a hometown that specializes in history. 0:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Pigeon forged Tennessee is famous for tourist attractions and southern hospitality, but it's also a hotbed of local culture and storytelling. 0:19 [SPEAKER_00]: There are more than two dozen museums and galleries in the area, and whatever your interests happen to be, there is likely something that will appeal to you. 0:28 [SPEAKER_00]: A personal favorite of mine for obvious reasons is the Alcatraz East Crime Museum. 0:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And on this most recent visit, I was able to sit down with the head of their collection. 0:38 [SPEAKER_01]: My name is Ali Pennington, I am the Artifacts and Programs Manager. 0:43 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're ever in the area and would like to visit the crime museum, you won't need a map. 0:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And you won't need to look for signs, just go to the parkway, which is the main drag that runs through the middle of town, and drive until you see the building that's shaped like a prison. 0:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember my first time here at the prison. 1:01 [SPEAKER_00]: or the museum, whichever way you're calling it. 1:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was just like, oh, I bet they'll have some pictures or something and first off, the building is impressive. 1:10 [SPEAKER_00]: If you could just tell me about the building. 1:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. 1:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So our building is modeled after two prisons. 1:16 [SPEAKER_01]: One is the Tennessee State Prison, which was in Nashville, Tennessee. 1:20 [SPEAKER_01]: are just outside of Nashville. 1:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And then also Alcatraz from San Francisco. 1:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So basically we took the two facades of those which are very distinct in themselves and molded them together. 1:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So we pulled these big towers off of the Tennessee State Prison and the main facade of Alcatraz and that's how we shaped our building. 1:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So the outside of the building looks like a prison. 1:40 [SPEAKER_01]: We have guard towers, we have prisoners hanging from the building. 1:44 [SPEAKER_01]: We sit right on the 1:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you drive past and it's like there is a prison right there, which is crazy. 1:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I also noticed that on the windows or the doors from when you come in, it doesn't say your hours that you're open is has the hours for visiting hours, like you're going to visit someone in prison, that was quite clever, what year was this built? 2:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So we opened in 2016 from here. 2:08 [SPEAKER_01]: We started as the National Museum of Crime and Punishment in Washington, D.C. that opened in 2008. 2:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And we were there until I think 2015 is when we permanently closed in the DC location. 2:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the collection moved over here. 2:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And we opened in 2016 as Alcatrazist. 2:23 [SPEAKER_00]: As I walked around the exhibits in Alcatraz east, I just kept asking myself, how on earth did they get all this stuff? 2:30 [SPEAKER_00]: They have John Wayne Gacy's clown suits, John Dillinger's original death mask, OJ's white Bronco, the actual Bronco. 2:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's impressive to say the least. 2:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I asked Ali how they went about selecting and curating such a diverse world-class collection. 2:47 [SPEAKER_01]: It's usually, it just really depends on the object. 2:50 [SPEAKER_01]: When we opened, we knew that we wanted to cover not only the history of crime and punishment, so the penal system, serial killers, pirates, any aspect of crime, but we also wanted to honor law enforcement. 3:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So most of our bottom floor is dedicated to law enforcement. 3:05 [SPEAKER_01]: The work that they do, how they train for the job, things like that. 3:08 [SPEAKER_01]: we do have a great relationship with our local law enforcement. 3:11 [SPEAKER_01]: We see them all the time and anything that we can do to help them do their job. 3:16 [SPEAKER_01]: We try to do, but they also just get really excited that not only are we focusing on criminals and crime, but also the people who prevent crime and the people who keep the communities safe, which is really important to us as well. 3:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know why they move the museum from DC to here? 3:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So a number of reasons basically they had a deal with the landlord in DC and basically rent just got too high for the collection there and there were some other issues I think I wasn't around but they moved over here because it is a tourist town but we do get a lot of people through but it's also an area that that does really appreciate and value their law enforcement which is why they chose here over other places in the States. 3:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I was in the fall about that 4:00 [SPEAKER_01]: This is just a little advertising pitch for the museum but when people come here what do you think is the most surprising artifacts that you have that they're like wow Yeah, I think our most popular galleries for sure the serial killer gallery and then the car gallery So right now we do actually have five cars total on display One that you may not have noticed on your way in is our FDA surveillance fan. 4:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It sits outside the building on the side and we do run the surveillance cameras So I can show you in our car gallery basically where you can 4:29 [SPEAKER_01]: see the street view and get an idea of how those work. 4:31 [SPEAKER_01]: The other ones are just big name cars. 4:33 [SPEAKER_01]: We have Ted Bundy's Volkswagen Beetle. 4:36 [SPEAKER_01]: He is associated with two different Volkswagen bugs, one that he stole in Florida. 4:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the last one that he got caught in. 4:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he also owned one out west. 4:45 [SPEAKER_01]: The one that we have on display right now is the one that he owned out west. 4:48 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is Ted Bundy's own Volkswagen Beetle. 4:51 [SPEAKER_01]: We also have the Bonnie and 4:57 [SPEAKER_01]: and then John Dillinger's Essex Terror Plane, and then the White Bronco from the OJ since in Chase. 5:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And the way that gallery is set up is you walk around a corner and then they're just these four. 5:09 [SPEAKER_01]: infamous vehicles in front of you, and that was intentional with the build as well, but it's just really interesting to watch people's face be like, that's the actual Bronco from the OJ Chase, or that's Ted Bundy's Volkswagen. 5:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's usually our big, wow, they have these things, like they have OJ's Bronco, or it's just intense to walk around that corner. 5:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's really interesting to talk to guests because I, so I'm 23, so I'm pretty young, I wasn't around for most of that. 5:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And so watching guests get pulled to different things, based on what they've lived through and what they've experienced, and so you'll have like parents, be like, how can you know, this is the OJ Bronco from the Chase. 5:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's really interesting just to see different people get pulled into different things. 5:56 [SPEAKER_00]: In case I missed this, is there another museum like this one in another part of the country? 6:00 [SPEAKER_01]: There's another similar museum in Las Vegas called the Mob Museum. 6:05 [SPEAKER_01]: They focus more on organized crime is what they focus on. 6:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Because this is Alcatrazist, I thought there might be a Alcatraz West. 6:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Not in the moment, there is not at the moment that we have yet. 6:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't. 6:19 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know. 6:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that there has been talking the past. 6:23 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, I think COVID put a lot of plans. 6:26 [SPEAKER_01]: We are also a sister company with wonderworks. 6:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's about five or six locations of those. 6:30 [SPEAKER_01]: We have one in Pigeon forge just down the road for us as well. 6:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So not at the moment, right now we are just one in one of a kind. 6:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's it. 6:38 [SPEAKER_00]: There again where we go ahead and get started on and talking about the history object if you can just describe that for us. 6:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. 6:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So it is about six foot tall. 6:47 [SPEAKER_01]: It is this foresty, sagey green color. 6:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I weigh 70 pounds. 6:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It's huge to look at looks like something out of a sci-fi movie. 6:56 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a bomb squad suit that was actually donated to the museum by the King's port police department which is just down the road for us. 7:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It's currently on a mannequin so it stands very tall and when you walk up to it is just daunting to look at. 7:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Because of how big it is and did they give a human wearing that and walking into a dangerous situation. 7:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I think really puts into perspective kind of what law enforcement deals with on a daily basis and how they have to protect them so that they can protect us. 7:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you talk about was it used anything like that? 7:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. 7:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So this particular suit was in the Kingsport Police Department's arsenals from 1995 to 2020. 7:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It started out as one of their primary suits. 7:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And then as the years went on, it got relegated to a backup status. 7:43 [SPEAKER_01]: it was decommissioned in 2020 and then they donated it to us. 7:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's how it ended up in our hands. 7:48 [SPEAKER_01]: There are a number of different stories where it's been used in the field and you can tell a couple places where it's been marked and things like that. 7:55 [SPEAKER_01]: The biggest one that they talk to us about when they donated it basically somebody placed two suspicious packages in trash cans in front of 8:06 [SPEAKER_01]: The Justice Building in the United States post office in downtown Kingsport, and the bombs God was called out to disarm those, and they were able to do so safely and nobody got hurt. 8:16 [SPEAKER_01]: They ended up being pipe bombs in the packages, and they were set there as a distraction for bank robbery that was happening across town. 8:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Did they catch them? 8:24 [SPEAKER_01]: They did. 8:25 [SPEAKER_01]: They caught the bank robbers and they caught the bombs before anybody got hurt. 8:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It looks like a big green space suit made of 8:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's got basically these like panels of padding, a bulletproof or shockproof. 8:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not really sure how that particular substance is made, but it is very heavy. 8:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I've lifted it, it's 70 pounds by itself, and so it's lined with different padding to basically protect them from whatever situation they walk into. 8:54 [SPEAKER_01]: To get to the point where someone is wearing that suit in the field, they have to go through an extensive training process. 9:00 [SPEAKER_01]: That's actually held at Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville, Alabama. 9:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It was developed by the FBI and the Army together and it's consistently updating itself. 9:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So not only do they go through a very long program to just be certified to work in the field, there's continuing education for all of these SPOMS squad technicians. 9:19 [SPEAKER_01]: to make sure that they're safe because they really want to give them the confidence that if they go into a dangerous situation, they have the knowledge that they are going to make it home that night. 9:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Kingsport is just down the road from us. 9:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It is one of our newer objects, but also it really I think highlights sort of our focus on law enforcement. 9:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very important to us to celebrate our law enforcement. 9:41 [SPEAKER_01]: but we also want to educate people about careers and law enforcement and most people won't ever see a bomb squad suit in person and so for us to have that donated by a local police department and it be the teaching tool for people who come into the museum is really important to us and so I think that it's a really interesting object. 9:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also just very cool to look at like it really does look like something out of a movie. 10:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We've already discussed this indirectly, but the last question I have for you is how you navigate all this interest and true crime without memorizing it. 10:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Could you speak a little bit onto the role for the bottom floor of your museum, plays and maintaining that healthy balance? 10:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So one of our big sort of pushes is crime prevention as well and I always say that the more informed that people are the safer they can be and so not only do we share these stories of things that have happened in the past we also make a point to not only talk about law enforcement as our pretty much our entire second floor or bottom floor is all dedicated to law enforcement 10:50 [SPEAKER_01]: just education and focusing on this is what these people did. 10:54 [SPEAKER_01]: This is how they got their victims. 10:57 [SPEAKER_01]: This is how they got to people. 10:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it really is interesting. 11:01 [SPEAKER_01]: We have a lot of school groups come through. 11:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And one thing that teachers constantly come back to us and say, it's like it's so educational and it brings up the ability for parents to have conversations with their kids or for teachers to have conversations with their students about this is how to stay safe. 11:20 [SPEAKER_01]: We also make a point to share the stories of the victims as well. 11:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I think one thing that sometimes can be problematic in the true crime world is that we focus more on the perpetrators than the victims. 11:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And in reality, everybody in these stories and in these crimes has a story of their own. 11:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we make a point to name all of the victims that we can and to share their stories. 11:42 [SPEAKER_01]: to make sure that their names are known. 11:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not just Ted Bundy, it's Kimberly Leach, it's Lisa Levy, it's all of the people that he heard. 11:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And currently in our Ted Bundy exhibit, we have a list of all of his known victims. 11:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Because that's important to us. 11:54 [SPEAKER_01]: It's important to note that he has all of these victims and that these were people. 11:58 [SPEAKER_01]: These were human beings just like you and me. 12:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And while they met horrible ends to this monster, they're important too. 12:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's how we bridge that gap. 12:07 [SPEAKER_01]: We really focus on education. 12:09 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't really... 12:11 [SPEAKER_01]: want to make a point of glamorizing anybody. 12:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think our museum does a really good job of that. 12:16 [SPEAKER_01]: By just putting forth the information so that we can start those conversations. 12:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it does a great job of it too. 12:22 [SPEAKER_00]: You might even say a word about the room that we're sitting in right now. 12:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. 12:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So right now, we are sitting in our, what we call our party room. 12:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It is all about how we treat each other and bullying prevention. 12:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is actually recently re-done in Yosemagraph the Crime Dog throughout this room. 12:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So this room is used for, you do a CSI lab program that students can do, we also do a Girl Scout Moist Scout badge program. 12:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So we have Alcatraz East badges that they can come, take our class and that is all about like CSI and I'm really just like a crime analysis and things like that. 12:57 [SPEAKER_01]: But this room, every time a group comes through, it just says, we focus on anti-bullying and bullying prevention in here, be kind to each other. 13:06 [SPEAKER_01]: The world's cool enough as it is, so if we're kind to each other and we treat each other with respect, it can make someone stage just a little bit better. 13:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And that I think is the big say of this particular room. 13:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to thank Ali for joining us, and for the opportunity to visit the Alcatraz East Crime Museum, yet one more time. 13:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It really is one of the greatest crime collections in the world. 13:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It's also a crash course in our American history of major crimes. 13:33 [SPEAKER_00]: The exhibits are educational in the mission which you've just heard from Ali as an admirable one. 13:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I highly recommend going out of your way to visit if you're anywhere in this area. 13:49 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
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