0:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have a red light on your little mic? 0:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Green and red. 0:16 [SPEAKER_00]: They're both. 0:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It should be... No, it's green. 0:19 [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's red. 0:20 [SPEAKER_02]: It's green. 0:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It's freaking high. 0:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we are recording now. 0:28 [SPEAKER_00]: We're trying out these new mics, if they sound like crap, then we'll make it a podcast in the next two weeks. 0:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Vegas. 0:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we are in Vegas, and you're gonna hear another gay man on this podcast with us today. 0:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you introduce yourself? 0:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you're the app. 0:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I am not gay nor a man. 0:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's news to me. 0:51 [SPEAKER_00]: and probably use everyone else to read by coming to the contact with on the airplane. 0:55 [SPEAKER_01]: That is not nice. 0:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We met our friend here, Jennifer, who, if you are in our Patreon group, you'll probably recognize the name because she likes to share feet picks. 1:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Feet picks. 1:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I would rather be known as who got you chia pets, but chia girls. 1:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, but chia girls. 1:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Jennifer, thank you for joining us on this podcast today. 1:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Jennifer is providing us a really nice hotel room at the Hilton. 1:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Jennifer, why do we have this room? 1:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it all started about a year ago. 1:32 [SPEAKER_02]: When I got a call from Hilton to have three free nights at a Hilton. 1:39 [SPEAKER_00]: They as high as blue. 1:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 1:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And you answered. 1:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 1:42 [SPEAKER_00]: That's weird to me. 1:47 [SPEAKER_01]: probably. 1:47 [SPEAKER_01]: You monster, how could you answer that? 1:50 [SPEAKER_02]: That adds a very good question because maybe I knew I was going to get something free out of it, but nothing's ever really free. 1:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe, no. 1:57 [SPEAKER_02]: So I had to go and listen to a time-share presentation and I sort of knew what to expect. 2:05 [SPEAKER_00]: That was today. 2:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You just came back from it. 2:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 2:08 [SPEAKER_02]: An hour-long presentation that took three hours. 2:10 [SPEAKER_00]: At a different Hilton. 2:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 2:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so I've never been to one of those. 2:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I want you to walk me through what you did, like you walked into the lobby of the hotel. 2:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep, and I went to the guest desk and just said, I'm here to get sucked in and sold so I don't want or need. 2:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm here to get sucked in sold. 2:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 2:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a big example of this. 2:34 [SPEAKER_01]: They probably thought you were a lady of the night. 2:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Take a number. 2:38 [SPEAKER_00]: No, by looking out, or they knew if you went to the lady of the night, 2:41 [SPEAKER_02]: So I go up. 2:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I had to go to a different desk. 2:44 [SPEAKER_02]: They check me in and they give me a colored lanyard with nothing hanging from it. 2:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And they told me to go wait in the cafe and then a woman comes out and she sees my gray lanyard and so she knows that's how to find me. 3:03 [SPEAKER_02]: They never do anything else with the land here. 3:05 [SPEAKER_02]: It was just so this person could find me in the cafe. 3:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And then so she took your land here. 3:08 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I do you have it? 3:09 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I did turn it in at the end of the day. 3:13 [SPEAKER_02]: And then she just introduced herself, asked a couple questions, what I was doing today. 3:19 [SPEAKER_02]: After That's all you were recording. 3:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I did I said I was with friends here in Vegas and I was trying to use that as a reason like oh, yeah We're gonna do that at 11 like I put a time on it so that I could get out of there and and then we had to go into a 25 minute Presentation by gentleman named Chonsey who was supposedly a past Pastor and Deacon, I think that was just to make them. 3:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah 3:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, how many people are well in this presentation like watching it? 3:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, two four six eight, four couples plus me all by myself. 3:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was funny because they put me not like in the third row. 4:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was just, it wasn't a very big room. 4:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It could probably fit like two four six, 18 people, she can count. 4:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I have to, but I have to do it out loud. 4:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, she also has plenty of toes and fingers, so she's sure. 4:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was funny because I was like, did they step me back here because I'm not a couple? 4:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And then a couple came in late and they tried to sit them in the front row, which I thought was funny. 4:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, no, we're not having it. 4:22 [SPEAKER_02]: We said it back. 4:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, too many details. 4:24 [SPEAKER_02]: But, and then it was just like overall like super sales pitch about how there's 4:29 [SPEAKER_02]: 11, gazillion, trillion, Hilton's all of the world and this trance guy and his wife have been to Y four times and this place and this place and this place and then he kind of went into like you can use points and nicer places are more points. 4:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, of course, they never ever say anything about dollars ever, but he tries to get, like, who doesn't like a vacation? 4:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Raise your hand if you like a vacation. 4:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Raise your hand if you like nice things. 4:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Raise your hand if you live to work or work to live, like just all these, like, phrase or roll in my eyes so hard. 5:06 [SPEAKER_02]: It was, it was definitely hard because it was so salesy. 5:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Raise your hand if you like to breathe. 5:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly. 5:13 [SPEAKER_00]: If you like a million dollars, 5:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So you were flying the back to slide? 5:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Not raising your hand. 5:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I was trying to be engaged and because there were a couple people in there that were like, I do not want to be here. 5:27 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was just, and it was funny because at one point he was like, I know like some of you aren't, you know, aren't really into this. 5:34 [SPEAKER_02]: You're trying not to make eye contact. 5:36 [SPEAKER_02]: But I was like, I am very interested in that. 5:39 [SPEAKER_01]: If you just said that to me, because I would have definitely been one of those people and I'm not trying to give eye contact. 5:44 [SPEAKER_02]: It was just a lot of pictures and then he talked, it was like 25 minutes and then he had kind of told us like once I'm done, you'll go back out to your representative and that is where we get the heart so. 5:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And then she goes through all the points still, don't ever talk about dollars like for an hour. 6:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It was just all about the points and then she's going to take find Aaron and Aaron is going to talk to me and he is going to talk about price. 6:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And 6:11 [SPEAKER_02]: she told me about all these different places she's been and they really try to get a feel for like how many vacations do you take a year? 6:16 [SPEAKER_02]: How many vacations would you like to take a year? 6:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Which money do you usually spend on those vacations and then they have a little work sheet that they're like sketching up numbers and to show like okay well that trip would probably be 2000 and that trip like where do you want to go and so she asked like all these 6:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what did the top place you want to go and like, okay? 6:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, so Greece is my number one place I want to go. 6:35 [SPEAKER_02]: So what would you pay? 6:37 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think pay? 6:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I think pay. 6:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I was like, well, that one is probably going to be a little bit more, you know, so it was like, she's writing all these numbers. 6:45 [SPEAKER_02]: And then she divides that, like, over three. 6:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And so your average is like $3,500 a year. 6:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And then for three years, I don't really know what the point of, like, the three years specifically. 6:59 [SPEAKER_02]: think she does end up talking about price and I had just no idea like what prices would be and they have like all these different tiers and the mid-middle tiers like 22,000 points and if you just say like 7:17 [SPEAKER_02]: five that lets us say 5,000 points is a pretty nice vacation. 7:21 [SPEAKER_02]: So basically at this mid-tier range, you get 22,000 points a year. 7:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Who has time to take all these nice vacations? 7:28 [SPEAKER_00]: You can afford it. 7:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and even if you know how much gas is. 7:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 7:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I was like, well, even, but then you're like talking about a flight on top of these places. 7:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So, but like the lowest points were 5,000. 7:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like let's talk about the 5,000. 7:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's bring it up. 7:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It's already a scam because I'm here in points. 7:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, of course it's a money. 7:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's way easier to think about. 7:49 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just points. 7:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not money. 7:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you have to use these points. 7:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not money that you could use over the points. 7:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And you can buy more points and you can exchange points. 8:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And so how much is a point? 8:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they don't, of course, tell you that. 8:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd have to do the math, but as it was, she, like, I got the feeling that she couldn't talk about the lowest package. 8:13 [SPEAKER_02]: She has to, like, corporate rules. 8:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I got to talk about the mid-price. 8:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, and let's just say, oh, and then so eventually, how to skip forward. 8:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Because it was basically, it's a 10-year payment, monthly payment. 8:24 [SPEAKER_02]: You can pay it off early. 8:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And the interest on it is 14.99. 8:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my God. 8:30 [SPEAKER_02]: When she wrote that down, I was like, what? 8:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And so now how much are we talking per month so the one she showed me was like three fifty nine and I was like oh that's a that's a lot three hundred fifty nine dollars a month yeah and you're talking about like taking how many vacations for that So and that was a based on so let's just say four to six a year 8:53 [SPEAKER_02]: but like if you and that was like even included like if we just say like Hawaii is one of the more expensive ones that one could run you like five to ten thousand so it's multiple vacation so i'm like i don't i just don't know who has that much free time to go on vacations and even if you all that kind of a sense to make it as if it's like three hundred dollars a month and you're gonna take how many vacations a year four to six good if you had the twenty two thousand points 9:20 [SPEAKER_00]: but is the 350 giving you 20,000 points a year? 9:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 9:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Then that's 350, 350, 350, 350. 9:29 [SPEAKER_00]: But then that, I guess the math is a math for me. 9:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And while it's probably math probably doesn't add up, if you used a calculator too, but what she showed me on paper was 359 a month. 9:41 [SPEAKER_02]: for ten years. 9:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Before taxes before your service fee. 9:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 9:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and it's basically like, oh, you don't have to pay anything when you use these points. 9:49 [SPEAKER_02]: But then there's a maintenance fee. 9:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And the maintenance fee is a yearly fee. 9:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's almost, they don't tell you this till later. 9:56 [SPEAKER_02]: But that was about 1,700 bucks every year. 10:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So, what's the maintenance fee for this? 10:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Like an HOA. 10:04 [SPEAKER_00]: hold on a minute. 10:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is my, I just have no idea what you're talking about. 10:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm assuming that it's like your buying hotel points. 10:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, kind of, it is kind of like that. 10:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you have any toilet? 10:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Because you're an owner. 10:18 [SPEAKER_02]: That's all the chances first pitch was all about how you're an owner, not a renter. 10:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Like a renter, you come get a hotel room. 10:25 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's so much better to own. 10:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, exactly. 10:29 [SPEAKER_02]: You don't own anything. 10:34 [SPEAKER_02]: you get 22,000 points every year, but you no longer have to pay anything except the $1800 maintenance fee every year. 10:43 [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't make sense. 10:45 [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's a lot of money and $1800 a year for a maintenance fee covers like maintenance of their properties. 10:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So basically, you pay this per month, and then you can have so many vacations a year as long as within your points. 11:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Then you go look to see where I wanna go, and this is how many points it's gonna be, and if it's more points, you're gonna have to just pay with that, pay them at all points. 11:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they can, and they said, like you can borrow from your next year's points, you can give to your points to people, so that how many points was it to go to degrees? 11:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Did they say that? 11:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I don't remember what it was. 11:25 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I want to say like, Greece and Hawaii were pretty comparable. 11:29 [SPEAKER_02]: But the other thing is they tell you that they have all these properties, but if it's not a time-share property, like they could have, this is why I thought was kind of a scam. 11:39 [SPEAKER_02]: When they were talking about all these Hilton properties, that let's just say Vegas has 100 Hilton properties. 11:49 [SPEAKER_02]: but only eight are actually time share properties. 11:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And so they make it sound like at the beginning, like there's all these places you can stay. 11:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you search, you can see all these properties, but if it's not a time share property, what they call is an exchange. 12:04 [SPEAKER_02]: So you still use points, but you're basically turning those points in and then also paying some cash. 12:12 [SPEAKER_00]: But it was still like... 12:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So is this hotel a time share hotel? 12:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It is. 12:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It exists as a grand vacation, which is like their time share. 12:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know, I think there are other properties that aren't called grand vacation that are still time share. 12:24 [SPEAKER_02]: But... And then... 12:26 [SPEAKER_02]: So they make it sound like they have all these properties all over the world. 12:29 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, they have a lot of hiltens all over the world and hilt and brands, but they don't they're not all time share. 12:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 12:35 [SPEAKER_02]: And so where you just do a... 12:42 [SPEAKER_02]: and and so what like all said it was let me try to remember what it was I'm going to say like oh geez I'm trying to picture the number like how after 10 years like what that ends up costing a lot and I want to say like oh it was like 120,000 I saw one it was like 89,000 but I want to say like 120,000 over the course of 10 years and 13:10 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot of freaking money. 13:11 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a house, maybe not in some places, but in Michigan, that could get you a house, maybe five years ago. 13:17 [SPEAKER_02]: But so... 13:19 [SPEAKER_02]: and then being a house that needs a lot of work right exactly and so after they try to get you at that middle point range and I'm like that was like 359 a month and I was like no too expensive and she's like well what would you be comfortable with and so I was just like through out 200 thinking that like that was a low number one and she's like because we're all about customizing it for what your needs are and what your vacation plans are and 13:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And so she's like, okay, and she did seem a little concerned that that might not be possible, which I think is kind of funny because it was definitely possible. 13:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So when Erin came and talked to me, lovely gentleman, and he went overall like the finance. 14:01 [SPEAKER_02]: That's when I found the interest rate and the monthly payments and all that. 14:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And then he's like, now she did tell me that you were a little concerned about the payment, but we, I think we have something we could work, and then he's like, now if this 200 or 14:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm mixing all of all my numbers. 14:17 [SPEAKER_02]: He ended up coming down with another one. 14:20 [SPEAKER_02]: But basically, I pay every month and it was less than $200. 14:24 [SPEAKER_02]: But I only get the points every other year. 14:28 [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm still paying every month for 10 years. 14:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But you can only use it every other year. 14:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you can use it. 14:34 [SPEAKER_02]: So like if I had my, and this was only $5,500 points a year, which, 14:40 [SPEAKER_02]: the examples now again. 14:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if these are legit because they're what they're telling me what these points are. 14:45 [SPEAKER_02]: They can also like I could roll over those points. 14:50 [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe this year I don't go in trip, but I save them to go on a bigger trip next year. 14:53 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, basically. 14:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And but basically what they were saying is that 5500 points could still get you some a couple of occasions. 15:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's say you signed up for this. 15:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you get 15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It's basically like you're getting all your points. 15:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a loan. 15:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you get your yearly alignment of points up front. 15:16 [SPEAKER_02]: So each January, you basically get another 22,000. 15:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you just sign up today, do you sign up as 22,000 points? 15:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I don't understand where the interest is unless it's alone. 15:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it is technically, well, they treat it as alone because they're saying this is really the value of this is 120,000, but you're going to pay it in monthly installments. 15:40 [SPEAKER_02]: You could go in there and pay all 120,000 and you wouldn't have that interest. 15:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but if you sign up today, you get all your points today. 15:46 [SPEAKER_02]: You get that yearly a lot, and I think because, oh, because in addition, you have to put 15:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's basically like a worm. 15:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 15:58 [SPEAKER_00]: With 13. 15:59 [SPEAKER_00]: 14.9. 16:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And then they tried to say, well, and this kills me too, which I hate that this is part of their sales pitch because if you can't afford it, then they said, well, you've got this, Hilton American Express. 16:13 [SPEAKER_02]: You can sign up for that 0% for a year and you could basically put that whole down payment on your credit card and you have a whole year to pay it at 0%. 16:21 [SPEAKER_02]: and I just don't like that. 16:23 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the concept of putting all this money on a credit card. 16:26 [SPEAKER_02]: If you can't afford it, you can't afford it and so I did not like that pitch. 16:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But you don't try not for the credit card. 16:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I did because it was 75,000 points and I'll still use that. 16:38 [SPEAKER_02]: But, but. 16:41 [SPEAKER_00]: points, not related to the sports related to just Hilton. 16:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, and so then I basically, she's like, okay, so what's holding you back? 16:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, well, I, you know, the economy and I just, you know, I don't know, like, what if I lose my job? 16:56 [SPEAKER_02]: What's my out? 16:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I said, that's I basically said, like, what's the out? 16:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, because if I buy a house, I buy a car, something happens. 17:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I can sell it. 17:03 [SPEAKER_02]: What's my out for this and she's like and because they try to say like you can gift it to someone or you can Leave it to someone like it's yours and I can leave it to someone after I pass away And it's like in the part of my a state anyway So I was like what's my out though? 17:17 [SPEAKER_02]: How do I get out of it? 17:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I said and I was like pretty upfront with like you know You hear all these horror stories in these radio ads about can you get out of your time share and so She kind of glossed over the answer to that and 17:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Basically, if you want out of it, you have to call Hilton, they have the first right or refusal, and if they don't want to buy it Back from you, you can sell it outright Supposedly for any price that I want and so I said so if I paid 11,000 I could turn around this was like the one of the lower one packages was like 11 9 17:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I said, so if I was actually already paid it, I could sell it to someone for five grand, for example, and it was kind of funny, because I was asking very specific questions and like sometimes I get it for my answer, sometimes I wouldn't, and she was basically like, yeah, you just have to call Hilton, I was like, I don't really like that answer, you know, and so I basically told her that I never make a decision. 18:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, especially if this price, I'm not going to just make a decision. 18:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to go into a store and buy something without looking at the price tag first. 18:23 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was really trying to like use that as an example of, I don't, I'm not going to go and buy a car without knowing all the details. 18:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I was trying to use that as a, like, I need to sleep on it. 18:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to wake up tomorrow and be like, oh, what did I do? 18:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I even tried to say, like, so if I walk out of here and I don't buy it, 18:42 [SPEAKER_02]: and I regret it. 18:44 [SPEAKER_02]: What happens tomorrow, if I call, and she's like, well, you're not going to get the same pricing. 18:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I said, well, what if what happens if I do buy it? 18:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, tomorrow, I wake up and I'm disappointed that I bought it. 18:57 [SPEAKER_02]: What can I do? 18:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And she wouldn't tell me like how many days, but there was an out, like there is a cancellation timeframe, but she wouldn't tell me what that is. 19:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I, it was like, when they, when they try to pass me to the, to the next person. 19:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the hardball. 19:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because then I finally said, I think I'm going to have to say no. 19:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I just, I'm not comfortable making a decision without having time to think about it and run the numbers and see what different vacations points were. 19:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And so then she said, okay, why I'm just going to have you talk to this person? 19:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Because this all holds your price and you can, 19:32 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you can come back in a year and, you know, decide that you do want it, this basically locks in your price. 19:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I said, okay, fine. 19:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You can come back in a year, but you can't call tomorrow. 19:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 19:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And to the price. 19:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 19:46 [SPEAKER_02]: But this is basically, this was where if you, if I got the credit card and I take another 19:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I had a year to use this room, and is that well, you have to sit through another one of those meetings? 20:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 20:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't realize that at first, and then she did say it, I just don't think it clicked with me because she said, well, you can just tell them that you talked to me because so my trick. 20:17 [SPEAKER_02]: So basically, she was kind of making it like, oh, I already sat through this. 20:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, but when the trick was signing me up for it, basically she's like, yeah, 20:29 [SPEAKER_02]: you'll have to sit through another one. 20:30 [SPEAKER_02]: But this one, this was supposed to be three nights and I got to add another night for us. 20:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And this other one that I have to do again is like, I can, it's eight nights. 20:43 [SPEAKER_02]: And I can break it up in a two trips if I want. 20:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So the interest rate, do they run your credit? 20:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes. 20:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Cause then they did ask me what my credit score was. 20:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And I should have said, I'm an idiot, why can I think of this? 20:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Five, twelve. 20:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I have really good credit. 20:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm an idiot. 21:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so even with an 800 credit score It's 14% interest. 21:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes Good God and so that's the other thing they said oh well if you you could pay it off or get this credit card and pay it off and then Get a personal loan and pay it off on the credit card and then get a loan and pay it on the credit card and then get a loan 21:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And she didn't say personal on. 21:28 [SPEAKER_02]: She's like, you can just get a refinance it. 21:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, what big banks? 21:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Tell me what big banks finance a time share. 21:37 [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, oh, well, it would be a personal loan. 21:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, ah, no, thank you. 21:43 [SPEAKER_02]: So three hours later, I was signing up for a credit card. 21:56 [SPEAKER_02]: We have 18 months to use this next-free vacation. 21:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you can go to Greece? 22:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you're, she knew our soul smart asking these questions because that's what I said. 22:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you show me? 22:08 [SPEAKER_01]: You should have went with her. 22:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 22:10 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'd walk out with a freaking time share. 22:14 [SPEAKER_00]: They do a really good job. 22:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I said you should have, you should have took him. 22:18 [SPEAKER_00]: She couldn't have afforded it. 22:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Like honestly, like I'm making a joke. 22:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Watch your crap. 22:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Watch your credit score, man. 22:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Four or 14. 22:24 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm having a good credit score. 22:25 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, man, the trash can is right over here. 22:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. 22:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm making jokes about how I'm all skeptical, but they do a really good job the way. 22:34 [SPEAKER_02]: the ramp up like I even said like I get what you got to do and you want it before I walk out you're going to want to sell me this because the chance that I call back tomorrow was you know slim none and but they do a really good job showing you all these properties and all these trips that they've taken and she's shown me picked her personal pictures and of course who doesn't want to take more occasions and and you know make it sound like they're free all right 23:02 [SPEAKER_02]: But what did you ask all about Greece? 23:03 [SPEAKER_02]: So I did. 23:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, can you just show me what the points were? 23:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're not time sure properties in Greece. 23:09 [SPEAKER_02]: They are the exchange ones. 23:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So you're still paying, you know, you're not getting it just no cost. 23:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I said, well, show me 23:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you show me what's in Michigan? 23:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I said because let's say I just want to go away and but I don't want to flight. 23:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just I don't want to pay for flight, but I'm going to go, you know, just that's I can do it and drive and whatever and she's like, okay, so what else what other state is close to you that you know, you might go and I was like Illinois. 23:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So she brings up both and then shows me all these time shares in Chicago. 23:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, can you unclick Chicago those? 23:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Cause I still want to see what's just a Michigan. 23:45 [SPEAKER_02]: And so she's pulling up all these properties. 23:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Like up north Michigan, beautiful area. 23:49 [SPEAKER_02]: They weren't time show. 23:50 [SPEAKER_02]: They were the other properties that are still helping properties that you can use some points with. 23:56 [SPEAKER_02]: So it was just like when they tried to gloss over those types of questions. 24:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're not paying attention, you could totally feel like you're, or you wouldn't know you're getting scammed. 24:07 [SPEAKER_02]: It just, 24:08 [SPEAKER_02]: it's very obviously very hard sales. 24:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I just worry about people who it would be so easy to get sucked there. 24:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, yeah, like my grandma. 24:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I could just see like. 24:19 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, my grandma wouldn't be asking the right questions and she would just, you know, see the, oh, this would be great. 24:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like I'm wasting my money and we're going on these vacations. 24:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, like knowing you guys were here, I was like, I can not walk back in that room with the time chair. 24:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, honestly, that's because I would have that you wouldn't have had to admit it. 24:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you would have never lived it down. 24:40 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 24:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, these are sales people, like these are very professional, and they, I'm your friend. 24:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I give you a great deal and yeah, and they would have heard of the, uh, every excuse. 24:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't do it. 24:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't afford it. 24:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 24:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can. 24:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. 24:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You can afford $100 a month. 24:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 24:58 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't afford $100 a month. 25:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Me. 25:05 [SPEAKER_00]: That goes to your yarn fund. 25:06 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. 25:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. 25:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Gotta have my yarn. 25:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was hoping you'd bring Kim, and then after you left, Kim had a great idea. 25:15 [SPEAKER_00]: She said that you guys could have pretended to be lesbian lovers. 25:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It helps that they were like, you know, two conserved. 25:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can never do that with anybody else. 25:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that's what they. 25:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's what I want, oh, I didn't even get to use my recycling pitch because I just never had an opportunity to ask that question because they were just trying to real me in. 25:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And I probably was, too, friendly, like I should have been more hard-knull. 25:37 [SPEAKER_02]: because I feel like there were some opportunities that could have done that. 25:40 [SPEAKER_02]: They would have rammed it up earlier, but. 25:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah. 25:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So. 25:46 [SPEAKER_02]: was my three-hour morning invades survived it and all the matters and we got four free nights and it's a really really nice place. 25:53 [SPEAKER_01]: It is. 25:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a really nice place. 25:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 25:56 [SPEAKER_02]: The master master bath is really nice and of course the model that they showed because we had to go on a model tour was even nicer than this like they ramped it up but it had like a nice dining table. 26:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah they're sure they're the best of the best. 26:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah it was definitely. 26:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean it was similar that we have. 26:14 [SPEAKER_02]: because that's a really nice lady. 26:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's really nice. 26:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, you should have told him that, hey, if you do a bigger bathroom in the second room, yeah, I'll think about it. 26:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this tub doesn't have jets. 26:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Shoot. 26:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we were going to get in to get worried. 26:35 [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, the longer it went, I thought she's going to come back here at the time, sure. 26:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, and it did kind of go fast, just because I was kind of curious just how they prefer it would. 26:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Just snacks. 26:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 26:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And I finally like got out my phone when she walked away probably to get the next hard cell and I was like, oh, I didn't check my phone and that's what I texted you guys real quick. 26:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Too fun. 26:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Jennifer, I know that you wrote us a really nice mystery from Detroit, so why don't you tell us all about it? 27:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I think you're really going to like this one. 27:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Audrey, what did you just tell me about? 27:13 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a little weird. 27:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I've always thought it's a little weird. 27:16 [SPEAKER_00]: How long have you known about it? 27:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, have you always heard about it or? 27:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I heard about it. 27:25 [SPEAKER_02]: I think within the last 10 years, yeah, it's that old. 27:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's been around forever, I feel like. 27:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay. 27:32 [SPEAKER_00]: You live in the Detroit area. 27:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I do. 27:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 27:35 [SPEAKER_02]: And I work in Detroit and I learned about this little weird parade event. 27:43 [SPEAKER_02]: You actually go to an office, you don't work for mom. 27:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I work. 27:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm hybrid. 27:47 [SPEAKER_02]: So I go in, it's supposed to go in three days. 27:51 [SPEAKER_02]: What we won't talk about my real number of weeks. 27:56 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, so buckle up, it's a weird one. 28:00 [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so we're going to talk about the Nan Rouge, and I don't really know if I'm saying that right, but that's part for the course for this little podcast. 28:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I believe you. 28:11 [SPEAKER_00]: You set it with confidence of matters. 28:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's Detroit's cursed red dwarf. 28:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I encourage you to Google this because it kind of gives me nightmares just thinking about it. 28:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't Kim my little red red head door. 28:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It's true. 28:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're about the same high as Kim. 28:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So the three of us are going to be a boy. 28:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it is a red door. 28:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And I love that lady's face. 28:37 [SPEAKER_00]: We were waiting to go out of that. 28:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We were taking the elevator out of the lounge, the little tail lounge. 28:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, we were talking about what like the story we're going to come up with to tell the people. 28:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, we're going to tell everyone you both on my body. 28:52 [SPEAKER_02]: It is a that's I just wonder what people think when they see us Yeah, you're both of you are half my size. 28:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel slide. 28:58 [SPEAKER_00]: This is my son All right, I'm all you ready? 29:03 [SPEAKER_00]: How about your my mom that your mom came as my grandmother That's the story we'll have to come up with. 29:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, is there believe it? 29:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Are you old enough to be his mom? 29:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean Technically I guess there definitely have been girls that would could have given birth that young 29:21 [SPEAKER_02]: But not this girl. 29:23 [SPEAKER_00]: How much younger are you than can five years. 29:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, kids, my mom's age. 29:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't see. 29:30 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was just a little advanced for my age, I guess. 29:34 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 29:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So so this mystery, we're into Troy and it involves a little red dwarf. 29:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so being from Michigan, I want to have a deep, 29:48 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, so Lannan Rouge, Lannan Rouge, all right, a fog had rolled off the Detroit river, the man who founded the city three weeks earlier was walking the river bank. 30:01 [SPEAKER_02]: His name was not Cadillac, his name was Antoine Lamont Lamont, man. 30:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we have a statue of him right outside my office too. 30:09 [SPEAKER_02]: and one long mat. 30:12 [SPEAKER_02]: He had invented Cadillac. 30:14 [SPEAKER_02]: He lifted a noble title and a coat of arms off a gate in southern France and made himself into a different man. 30:20 [SPEAKER_02]: He was about to meet something that knew the difference. 30:23 [SPEAKER_02]: From the path ahead, came a laugh, a cackle. 30:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Something small, it wasn't me. 30:30 [SPEAKER_02]: It stepped out of the fog, child size, red faced, sharp teeth, glowing eyes. 30:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't look at me like that. 30:41 [SPEAKER_01]: He's sitting here and looking at me and like, exactly you. 30:44 [SPEAKER_01]: That is exactly you. 30:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a sharp teeth. 30:47 [SPEAKER_00]: The moment Kim gets angry, you just described that moment. 30:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I can be pretty. 30:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I can be pretty. 30:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I can be child sized. 30:58 [SPEAKER_00]: OK. Can you make it in my bed? 31:03 [SPEAKER_02]: The legend says his wife would pay all beside him. 31:05 [SPEAKER_02]: A fortune teller in Quebec had warned them about this thing, months earlier, specifically. 31:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Lumet calling himself Cadillac, raised his walking cane. 31:15 [SPEAKER_02]: He brought it down on the creature hard. 31:17 [SPEAKER_02]: He shouted at it. 31:19 [SPEAKER_02]: The man Rouge laughed and vanished. 31:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm telling you. 31:22 [SPEAKER_00]: He hit it with his cane. 31:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 31:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, within three years, he does it with his walking stick that he bought one way or I can't Within three years, he was on trial. 31:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Within nine, he was removed from Detroit. 31:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Within 16, he was in the best deal. 31:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And every time Detroit burned or surrendered or lost itself for three hundred and twenty four years, somebody saw the little red man again. 31:50 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not a man. 31:51 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a 31:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you say that? 31:54 [SPEAKER_02]: How many times have you seen it? 31:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, personally zero, okay. 31:59 [SPEAKER_02]: But people dress up like him. 32:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, really? 32:02 [SPEAKER_02]: When they do this like festival, that's not even the right word. 32:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I said parade earlier, but it's like a... Like one day of the year. 32:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 32:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 32:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Just some of it. 32:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 32:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And it, I'm trying to think of when it's time to with. 32:22 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's a good popular, but the pages are front and back. 32:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so she would know that. 32:29 [SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't know. 32:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 32:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize you printed it front and back. 32:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there you go. 32:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I printed it for you. 32:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Which I'm telling you the printers downstairs. 32:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Are they nice? 32:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I had to get on the computer. 32:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like it was 20 years ago. 32:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Like they have a desktop computer and stuff like have a menu or keyboard for it. 32:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Like click click click click click click. 32:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Then I had to figure out how to like get the document on the stupid computers like print it. 32:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So I had to just share it into my Google Drive and then I create a share link and then I had a type in every single African character. 33:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh geez. 33:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just, oh my gosh, it was not intuitive. 33:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I should have printed it before I left. 33:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You should have. 33:09 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, so we are gonna talk about Antoine Lumet, the guy who eventually calls himself Cadillac. 33:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Why did he, where did he come up with the name Cadillac? 33:20 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a good question. 33:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he wanted to name himself out to the car. 33:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, maybe. 33:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 33:28 [SPEAKER_00]: He just liked that Cadillac. 33:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I might have those facts wrong. 33:33 [SPEAKER_02]: So the main we call Antoine, 33:40 [SPEAKER_02]: so not the French pronunciation. 33:42 [SPEAKER_02]: On March 5th, 1658 in a small village in Gaskini, France, his father was a provincial magistrate, not noble, not wealthy, working professional class. 33:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Sometime in his 20s, Le Mette started signing his name and Juan Dilemoth, Cadillac. 34:00 [SPEAKER_02]: So he made up Cadillac. 34:02 [SPEAKER_02]: maybe a few years before the Cadillac car came out. 34:05 [SPEAKER_02]: He lifted the noble title from a coat of arms who saw on a gate. 34:07 [SPEAKER_02]: He invented a noble lineage that didn't exist. 34:10 [SPEAKER_02]: He signed his marriage certificate with the fake title. 34:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna give myself a plain point, Queen Jennifer. 34:20 [SPEAKER_02]: He used the fake name for the rest of his life. 34:22 [SPEAKER_02]: He found a Detroit under the false name, Fort Parachatrain, Dittua, 34:29 [SPEAKER_02]: July 24th, 1701. 34:31 [SPEAKER_02]: He arrived with about a hundred Frenchmen and a hundred Algonquin allies. 34:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Algonquin? 34:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Algonquin? 34:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is the band who founded Detroit. 34:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 34:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 34:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, so he claims. 34:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, it was just like he claims the name caviar. 34:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 34:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I'm guessing the French weren't the first people. 34:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that there was a very large native land. 34:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, that's why, like with a big... El Garnquint is, I thought native, but it's saying he arrived with El Garnquint L. So where did they come from? 35:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 35:04 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, there was definitely native American in Michigan, I have to do a little more research on my... 35:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to add it to your next mystery that you share with us, yeah, I get it. 35:16 [SPEAKER_02]: The luxury car brand named Cadillac is named for a man who invented the name. 35:20 [SPEAKER_02]: He was a con man. 35:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Detroit was founded by a con man. 35:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds about right. 35:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 35:25 [SPEAKER_02]: The American automotive industry's premier luxury badge belongs to a guy from Gaskini, who lied about his own family. 35:32 [SPEAKER_02]: We leave that out of the history of... Oh, well, no, yeah, right. 35:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 35:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 35:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Inconvenient. 35:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 35:41 [SPEAKER_02]: So, Shane and Kim. 35:44 [SPEAKER_02]: When you find out, the founder of a city you've heard about your whole life made up his name. 35:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Does it change the way you think about the city he founded? 35:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And you better not say anything bad about Detroit, because I'm very proud of my city. 35:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I personally like Detroit. 35:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this was the first time I've ever been there, and I mean, it was the airport so the house was a city. 36:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I was just saying we were actually there. 36:04 [SPEAKER_00]: But no, no, no, no. 36:05 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no. 36:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you have to go to a city to like it. 36:09 [SPEAKER_00]: But I like... 36:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 36:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I like the history behind Troy in terms of I feel like the people. 36:19 [SPEAKER_00]: are very hardy to go from like building up a city by hand with all of these, you know, people who are trying to work hard, they have these factories and all this stuff. 36:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like, where I grew up in Muncie and so Muncie had these GM factories and other factories. 36:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 36:40 [SPEAKER_00]: But then when those started shipping overseas, then that really hurt the city of Muncie, 36:48 [SPEAKER_00]: But Detroit was a massive metropolitan city who they faced that problem. 36:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And then so how do you go from your main income for a massive city? 37:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this manufacturing hub? 37:03 [SPEAKER_00]: All of that stuff is lost and then what do you do? 37:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, in Detroit, it's interesting for me as an outsider, my limited knowledge of Detroit. 37:13 [SPEAKER_00]: but the people then had to figure it out or what do we do next. 37:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that they've done a really great job. 37:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not, they didn't go the way that Gary went. 37:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Gary and Diana, for sure, which was another big, 37:28 [SPEAKER_00]: manufacturing hub that went in a very bad situation, right. 37:34 [SPEAKER_00]: But so that's my version of Detroit. 37:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that there was a lot of history made in Detroit. 37:39 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of really bright people who did a lot of great things with their businesses and then all of the people, you know, that that's around it. 37:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's such a 37:50 [SPEAKER_00]: hard thing that they went through, but it's just interesting of how they've been able to turn it around. 37:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And it has gone through a lot of change and in the last and I'm probably understating it, but let's just say 15 years, maybe even, yeah, I've felt 15 years. 38:06 [SPEAKER_02]: there's been some, a lot of money of some business owners like the illogies who own little scissors and the red wings and Dan Gilbert who has owns the Cleveland, I think he still owns the Cleveland Cavaliers. 38:22 [SPEAKER_02]: He, but he 38:24 [SPEAKER_02]: based it out of Detroit, he has bought up a ton of property and obviously not always good for the people that actually are living in Detroit and living in those on the outskirts of downtown and unfortunately making it too expensive to even still live there. 38:41 [SPEAKER_02]: But if you go down 38:46 [SPEAKER_02]: 10 years ago, it looked very different, and I just learned recently, which I thought was a fascinating fact, because there is a guy that is doing a documentary, or he has created a documentary and I've seen the screening twice. 39:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It's very interesting, but it's basically he's been shooting Detroit for 20 years You know, just on his own and now he's put all this 20 years of research 39:10 [SPEAKER_02]: such a good. 39:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I hope he I think he's he's going to screen it at like cam's cam's my friend for donations terrible and a couple other film festivals and I hope it gets released because it's just fascinating and but in it he talks about how Detroit was 39:28 [SPEAKER_02]: one of the premier places. 39:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And the wealth in Detroit, it was once the wealthiest city. 39:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And even today, like if you do the exchange like from a hundred years ago and compared it to today's dollars, Detroit is would still be considered one of the wealthiest cities. 39:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And that was I never heard that before. 39:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And but when you go back and look at all the industry and not just automotive, but all the other industries that 39:55 [SPEAKER_02]: built Indy Troy, and it was a main thoroughfare of all the trading that was going on, not all the trading, but a lot of trading going on. 40:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And when the war hit, and I'm terrible, which war 1, 2, World War 2. 40:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, thank you. 40:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for having knowing history. 40:17 [SPEAKER_02]: And so when they had to convert a lot of the automotive factors to 40:22 [SPEAKER_02]: war supplies, then it just never came back and little by little and then a lot by a lot. 40:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And black families were displaced when highways went in and they built the highway right through the wealthy black business owned. 40:41 [SPEAKER_02]: like family neighborhood and it just that was just kept deteriorating and I forget what they call it. 40:47 [SPEAKER_02]: When basically all families were moving out of Detroit into the suburbs and all that money obviously goes with it and so it just kept you know I've whatever the population of Detroit used to be you know and it's a fraction of that now. 41:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 41:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I like to 41:04 [SPEAKER_02]: see the resurgence of Detroit, but I also recognize that it has displaced a lot of families and not in a positive way affected a lot of families in that were from Detroit and had the roots going back. 41:21 [SPEAKER_00]: hundreds of years. 41:22 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think about that often about how one of the great ways that we helped in World War II was that we had all this manufacturing. 41:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 41:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That then changed over to help us create all the things that we needed for war. 41:35 [SPEAKER_00]: If we ever got into another major war like that, 41:39 [SPEAKER_00]: What are we going to do by a from China and hope that they're not, you know, on our side? 41:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 41:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that is a national security problem that just people aren't thinking of. 41:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you go to the old manufacturing hubs, if they have a museum, like the one that's in the South Bend. 41:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And those museums will typically show you, you know, the history prior to the World War II and then after World War II when they had to change all that over. 42:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And then every time I see that I'm just thinking, where are all of these manufacturing hubs? 42:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's the, I think that's why I've started to appreciate history just be just the last couple of years spending time learning about Detroit's history, because I think it's so fascinating. 42:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah. 42:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And limiting to learn more just because just being so naive and 42:24 [SPEAKER_02]: We learn about history, you know, in school, but it never, we never have enough school to actually make it to current day, you know, I learned about the Romans, but I want to know about 42:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Detroit and everything that they've been through, I just think it's fascinating. 42:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I wanted to go, I mentioned how Detroit was a very big example of a big city that suddenly, all of those jobs went overseas, but all across America, most towns face that, even in the tiny town that I live in in Wallbash, you know, we don't have a big population, but the largest 43:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it may have been a GM factory. 43:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't work exactly what type of factory it was. 43:04 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's over by where Josh lives. 43:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And that entire ground is just still there. 43:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's the building is down, but they can't go anything because it was, you know, all the lands messed up. 43:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But when that factory went out, that's where most of the jobs in our community was. 43:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And so a lot of people had a flea and go find another job somewhere. 43:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I'm from Flint, and that's beauty. 43:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And everyone's a family worked in the GM and at Buick and when they pulled out, 43:37 [SPEAKER_02]: then it was devastating for the city and it's never been able to recover. 43:41 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, it was not for me. 43:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It was never been a world to really recover from all of, you know, they're factoring. 43:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 43:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Shutting down. 43:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, the biggest claim to fame that Muncie has now is per capita. 43:55 [SPEAKER_01]: We have more. 43:57 [SPEAKER_01]: What is that trivia question? 43:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Per capita, we have the most fast food restaurants in America. 44:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. 44:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and that's an actual trivial pursuit question. 44:11 [SPEAKER_01]: You ever get that trivial pursuit question? 44:13 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a monthly Indiana. 44:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So Muncie is where the ball brothers moved and they had those huge factories that employed a lot of people making those jars. 44:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, not only that one, but Warner year was there also. 44:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then they had the metal companies. 44:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 44:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Warner gears were micrampalled. 44:31 [SPEAKER_01]: He worked when I was growing up. 44:34 [SPEAKER_00]: But now I think the largest employers in Muncie are 44:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the hospital, ball, the moral hospital. 44:40 [SPEAKER_00]: That's one of them, the University of Boston University. 44:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are the two largest employers. 44:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to give a shout out to Josh and season out with us that you keep saying ball. 44:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And you see, like, Josh, we have a joke. 44:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you have a joke and you 44:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Fun fact, to me, I have known about Muncie, since I was in high school because we had a very big theater program, and I'm forgetting what play or musical it was at the time, but our theater program traveled to Muncie. 45:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh really? 45:18 [SPEAKER_02]: During maybe like 1990? 45:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, was it the civic theater at the civic theater? 45:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember. 45:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think I want to say it was that it could have been 45:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 45:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the ones. 45:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 45:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And they went to perform it or graduated from. 45:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay. 45:35 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's when I found when I met you and it was like, Oh, I totally know all about Monty all about. 45:40 [SPEAKER_02]: But. 45:42 [SPEAKER_00]: That was my funpacks. 45:43 [SPEAKER_01]: See, so that means you really need to come and stay with the meat. 45:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 45:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Jennifer, now you see how we get off track. 45:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You're talking about little red war. 45:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, little red scary guy. 45:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And hopefully you've now all googled him so you can be frightened. 45:57 [SPEAKER_02]: So 45:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Cadillac's wife was Marie Tarez Giel Giel, the historical society calls her the first lady of Detroit. 46:06 [SPEAKER_02]: She ran contracts at the fort, hired voyagers, and served as the settlement's defecto doctor. 46:13 [SPEAKER_02]: She arrived at Fort Panchetrain in October 1701, months after Cadillac found it 46:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Months before I didn't realize that Detroit was found at so early in 1700s Like at 1700s. 46:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's crazy. 46:27 [SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy. 46:28 [SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy. 46:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I think about Months before any of that in Mark 1701 at a banquet in Cadillac's honor in Quebec a fortune-teller named Mayor Meneet Lasso C.A. 46:40 [SPEAKER_02]: appeared black cat on her shoulder 46:43 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is where that warning comes in. 46:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Her warning to Cadillac was specific, quote, appease the man, Rouge, beware of offending him. 46:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that is what the carry-on signs to when they do this little parade festival. 46:57 [SPEAKER_02]: The legend tells it as if Marie Tarez was there at the riverbaking counter. 47:02 [SPEAKER_02]: The history says she arrived months later, the legend doesn't always do dates the way history does. 47:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Which is probably why I can never remember 47:15 [SPEAKER_02]: The man who lied about his own name was given a warning. 47:17 [SPEAKER_02]: By name, about a creature he had never heard of, and his wife was the one who remembered the warning when the creature appeared. 47:23 [SPEAKER_02]: That detail that she was the one who sought for what it was survived 300 years of retelling. 47:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Kim, you've been the one in a relationship who said, I told you so to someone you love. 47:37 [SPEAKER_02]: What does it mean to be the person who remembered that warning? 47:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, in this instance, you have a wife and a husband who are seeing this little demon thingy, but I think like that's just, I feel like women more can remember things. 47:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, oh, that's true. 47:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that would be, yeah. 48:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So like in that scenario, I'm like, oh, yeah, no, for sure. 48:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Like he would not have remembered this warning. 48:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Shane, you could remember what our hotel room number is. 48:08 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, let me tell you, I went up to the 15th floor. 48:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I went to where our room is and there's a sign on the door that says do not disturb and I was like What the hell are they doing in here like I use my key and it wouldn't it was like right my gosh, you know I'm like oh my god, these people are gonna think I'm trying to break in they're probably in there doing the dirty or something You know like well, so you need to do no disturbs and on and then you said how is keeping? 48:33 [SPEAKER_00]: No, there's a housekeeper watching me 48:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh he's only asked me at least when I left this room. 48:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be quiet so like the housekeeper that's out there right here because we hear her out there when I left the room early or took her downstairs. 48:49 [SPEAKER_00]: The housekeeper was going in and out of rooms cleaning them you know. 48:54 [SPEAKER_00]: She's listening to a smut book. 48:57 [SPEAKER_00]: You know how I know. 48:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Because when I walked behind it, it was like talking about it and then I took it and I put it in my mouth or something like that. 49:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And then like as I walked by it, it worked through the door because the door is open. 49:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And now I have to keep her look, and she's like, hi. 49:12 [SPEAKER_02]: So she didn't have me. 49:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Headphones in. 49:16 [SPEAKER_02]: She's just like listening to it. 49:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen to it. 49:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 49:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, it's part of human nature, I guess. 49:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 49:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to shame King here. 49:24 [SPEAKER_01]: which is hilarious. 49:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't listening to a smart book on the plane on the way. 49:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And there was a spot that I just busted a gut on. 49:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I was laughing so hard and she's looking at me. 49:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I did it. 49:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because I was like, are you listening to a book and you just laughed out loud? 49:37 [SPEAKER_02]: No, guess who else is a dirty bird in this room? 49:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not really it. 49:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was a sexy scene. 49:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I could read a smart book. 49:49 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no way I would be able to listen to it. 49:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I 49:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like you're listening to boring. 49:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I could read it. 49:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like it's someone who's listening to it. 50:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, saying that loud would make me laugh. 50:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 50:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he put it in my mouth. 50:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't, yeah, I'd rather read it. 50:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I remember what that was. 50:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that book sound familiar to you? 50:12 [SPEAKER_01]: No, but I remember what the line was that I busted up laughing. 50:16 [SPEAKER_01]: It said he dropped his pants. 50:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was the most beautiful penis I ever seen in my life. 50:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And I wrote that book. 50:24 [SPEAKER_00]: our man wrote that book. 50:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never heard a woman say that. 50:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I personally never said that. 50:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never said that. 50:30 [SPEAKER_01]: That's so beautiful. 50:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It is not. 50:32 [SPEAKER_02]: No, not the world. 50:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I have too many female friends and I've never heard it. 50:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I also know females do not like testicles. 50:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we are in Vegas. 50:42 [SPEAKER_02]: So we might see one and I'll let you know if it's the most beautiful. 50:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Can I tell you we got tickets for a thunder down under? 50:51 [SPEAKER_02]: No. 50:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, you guys are going. 50:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you shitting me? 50:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're shitting you. 50:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god. 51:01 [SPEAKER_01]: But Kim did this. 51:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a little real excited about that. 51:04 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, I'm ready to go. 51:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been missing all this smart books. 51:09 [SPEAKER_00]: She's like a lost one place. 51:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So I talked about going the last time when we were here. 51:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I watched a documentary about Thunder Down Under. 51:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was them, not the. 51:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, at them, or the magic mic show. 51:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, there's a billboard that I saw when you're coming to the hotel yesterday, and a guy in that billboard, no, I looked like one of the salespeople at the time shared this morning. 51:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he wanted to go. 51:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I was uncomfortable because I was like, is that him? 51:37 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was just like, and he had all these attention. 51:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And he was job. 51:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And he definitely was, his arms were like, 51:43 [SPEAKER_02]: huge, and I'm like, I swear, it's the guy with the beard on the billboard. 51:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll point it out. 51:47 [SPEAKER_02]: If we see it again, you might want to go to the camera. 51:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I saw them at there for it. 51:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 51:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 51:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 51:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So they have billboards there. 51:57 [SPEAKER_01]: That's where we seen him the last time we were here. 51:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And Josh and I had talked about going last time we were here. 52:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And you guys could go tomorrow? 52:03 [SPEAKER_01]: No, the one busy one of the, busy one of the guys that was beside us at the convention when we were here the last time, he was gay also. 52:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And he had gone the night before and he was talking about how bad it was. 52:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, geez. 52:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And Josh and I are like, well, I'm gonna go out of winning, go, you know. 52:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So. 52:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it would be bad enough, but if it was cheesy, also, like, yeah. 52:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, maybe the magic mic one would be better. 52:30 [SPEAKER_00]: The documentary gave me the itk, but it was, because it was it on, like what, streaming is what I don't know what that. 52:37 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, I mean, it pretty much, I always have Netflix and Prime, so it's likely one of those, but I'll look it up. 52:46 [SPEAKER_00]: you'll finish this mystery eventually. 52:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, eventually. 52:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, sorry. 52:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't I forgot about Ed and Time for a site. 52:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Manufacturing will be returning to Detroit by the time Jennifer finishes the mystery. 52:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 52:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Everything all comes back. 53:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big circle. 53:02 [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, just to remind us, since 53:06 [SPEAKER_02]: It's Cadillac in the wife are walking along the river and the creature appears in the physical description of this crazy looking guy. 53:14 [SPEAKER_02]: You can actually read about it in Marie Hamlin's 1884 book Legends of Liddiqua. 53:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Very red in the face with a bright, glistening eye, a grinning mouth displaying sharp pointed teeth. 53:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And that is the image that his wife remembered hearing about. 53:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Cadillac raised his walk and came and started 53:36 [SPEAKER_02]: of a, no, I don't, I kind of, I don't really know a lot about Pokemon, but I know they're the red one. 53:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't look like this crazy guy. 53:48 [SPEAKER_02]: So there's no record of Cadillac ever publicly telling the story, but the first time any written account of the NAN Rouge shows up is 1884. 53:58 [SPEAKER_02]: There's 183 years after the encounter, Marie Hamlin, a descendant of Detroit's earliest French families, gathered the oral tradition into a book, and that's the first time the world saw it on paper. 54:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Which is crazy. 54:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So that story is being passed down all that time and doesn't even get written until 100, 100, 100. 54:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Let me just let you know how to write. 54:22 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, cause I idiot you're something like that. 54:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Can I do that was coming? 54:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew that was coming. 54:32 [SPEAKER_02]: A legend with a 183 year gap between event and first written record. 54:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Does that gap make the legend stronger or weaker? 54:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, I feel like it probably wouldn't have been uncommon for them. 54:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, because they could have wrote it like he could have written it down. 54:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 54:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But then he dies and who saves it. 54:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 54:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, oral history was much popular at the time. 54:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder, like, I feel like his wife would have had more to do with, like, telling the story, because like, I feel like, and I mean, I guess that's how stories. 55:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Did make it, did let, they were all, yeah. 55:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel like that they would, I mean, if it's just word of mouth, those types of stories, I don't feel like it would be as accurate because it's just a big game of, like, telephone. 55:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there'll be, yeah, typically there's, you know, people are adding their little spice to it and stuff, but if you're here in a finished-mocking laugh, 55:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I would tell people or keep it to my seek. 55:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I try little laughs from Shane all the time. 55:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 55:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I would have been founding Muncie if. 55:36 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, kid. 55:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Leaving, leaving, fleeing Detroit after seeing that, crazy thing. 55:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Off to Greece, I go. 55:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I go, I go, I go. 55:45 [SPEAKER_02]: So part of the history of Detroit also includes trafficking alcohol and furs, and so our friend Cadillac, faithfully named Cadillac, he went to, he had to go back to Quebec to face charges, and he was in prison for a while. 56:06 [SPEAKER_02]: For a while, trafficking furs? 56:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep, 56:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And one of the other mysteries that I was thinking about for Detroit is all the bootlegging and there are supposedly tons of liquor on the floor of the Detroit River because they would ship it, they would ship it from because we're right across the river as Windsor and they would ship alcohol. 56:35 [SPEAKER_02]: underneath the water to get to Detroit. 56:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And if there was something happen to that underwater. 56:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, not ship it, but they were like, I don't know if it was like an pulley system or what? 56:45 [SPEAKER_02]: This is why I'm terrible at telling you. 56:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Why is there maybe there's a ship but then like they're sinking it and sagging it. 56:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel under water. 56:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it wasn't like an actual ship, but it was definitely like a pulley system sometimes. 56:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Because it's not, it's not very wide at all. 56:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Like when 57:01 [SPEAKER_02]: This is like, I can, I'm not good at dimensions either, but like, across the street, it feels like a big street, but it's very close across the river from off. 57:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, uh, I was just watching a documentary to about like the ships that would go through there and how they had to make it deep enough 57:25 [SPEAKER_02]: like narrow. 57:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, narrow. 57:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. 57:27 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the word I'm looking for. 57:28 [SPEAKER_01]: When we went to Canada that one time that we went through on the tunnel. 57:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah. 57:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Over to Windsor. 57:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 57:34 [SPEAKER_02]: That's fascinating to see how they built that under water tunnel. 57:40 [SPEAKER_01]: We're still using the day between to get to back and forth. 57:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Are they a strict on the the border? 57:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, very strict. 57:51 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I remember going up there with just my birth certificate. 57:56 [SPEAKER_02]: We went up with just birth certificates when yeah, and for a long time, you could, it's not just a little more recently that was Canada, a country when you went to. 58:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it was. 58:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, the thing that I remember the most once we got into Canada was seeing all of the Canadian flags. 58:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, your phones were. 58:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone's phone's not on doing that. 58:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It's true. 58:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it was on me. 58:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It's on she was supposed to fly as her to library to go and off over there. 58:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I was assuming it's either her little friend or her phone. 58:30 [SPEAKER_01]: She didn't want to turn that on. 58:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the thing that really surprised me the most when we went there was seeing all the Canadian flags and how proud they were, you know, how proud they are of their country and stuff. 58:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not like that here. 58:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel like it's not near as common as what it is there anyway. 58:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I felt like it's recording where you're at. 58:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel a lot of American flags. 58:53 [SPEAKER_01]: More, it more so now, yes, but back when we went, which would have been 1701, when did we go? 59:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Emily was just a baby. 59:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So, 20, just born on 21. 59:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So, it's probably 22, spring and 22. 59:14 [SPEAKER_00]: or O2. 59:15 [SPEAKER_00]: She was not born in 21. 59:17 [SPEAKER_01]: She was born in O1. 59:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That one. 59:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Good Lord. 59:20 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I made. 59:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Listen. 59:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Calm down, Cosby. 59:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh. 59:26 [SPEAKER_01]: He. 59:27 [SPEAKER_01]: He. 59:27 [SPEAKER_01]: It was so wrong. 59:29 [SPEAKER_01]: You are so wrong. 59:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't cancel me, please. 59:32 [SPEAKER_00]: To waste. 59:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll put Kim out of a job. 59:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead, Jennifer. 59:37 [SPEAKER_00]: What was your? 59:38 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was just going to mention our friend, Cadillac. 59:43 [SPEAKER_02]: He did come back to Detroit, and he was removed in 1710. 59:50 [SPEAKER_02]: So about nine years after he saw the Red Gremlin, and he ends up being ending up in Louisiana and he is appointed governor. 59:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Then he's three years, he's removed from there. 60:03 [SPEAKER_02]: So 1717, he returns to France, and he's arrested the moment he steps off the ship. 60:09 [SPEAKER_02]: in prison in the Bastille for five months with his son Joseph for speaking against the government. 60:15 [SPEAKER_02]: And he's released about a year later in the crown gives him the La Croix de St. Louis. 60:22 [SPEAKER_02]: That's probably translates to the St. Louis Cross. 60:27 [SPEAKER_02]: He's the governor of a small town called Kessel, Surrasson. 60:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I need a little dictionary when I was right and all these big words, but he died in that same town in 1730. 60:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Was that the U.S.? 60:42 [SPEAKER_02]: No, that was in France. 60:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. 60:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So is he buried over there? 60:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I believe so. 60:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And now I kind of feel like I'm gonna, when I get back home, I'm gonna take that little statue down. 60:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So is it a curse or a difficult man who picked fights with the wrong colonial governors and got tossed in the best deal for his mouth? 61:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think both. 61:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Both versions of the story are true at the same time. 61:08 [SPEAKER_02]: The legend says the man rude ruined him. 61:11 [SPEAKER_02]: The historical record says he ruined himself. 61:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Detroit decided which one mattered. 61:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Since we kicked him out a couple times. 61:19 [SPEAKER_00]: But then they still, GM still named their premium vehicle Cadillac. 61:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 61:27 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true. 61:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder why. 61:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Like why would you want that part of your brand? 61:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 61:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting. 61:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure I'm sure that there was someone who's decision it was to name the vehicle and they're like, we should name it after the person who found it to Troy. 61:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 61:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It was Cadillac. 61:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Great. 61:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do that. 61:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's not do any type of background research. 61:46 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the tracks. 61:49 [SPEAKER_02]: When a city tells itself a story about why it's found or fell, the supernatural version or the boring bureaucratic one, which one usually wins. 61:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, again, I shouldn't say again, tea. 62:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I think, obviously, he's people gloss over all the... Well, the other is a statue around your office building. 62:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 62:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, actually, I think that's the other, is Algonquin, friend. 62:15 [SPEAKER_02]: So, in 1763, 62:20 [SPEAKER_02]: which is well after Cadillac has died. 62:23 [SPEAKER_02]: We have Pontiacs War around 250 British soldiers and attempt a surprise night raid on Pontiacs and Campman near Parents Creek. 62:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Two miles east of Fort Detroit. 62:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Pontiac was warned. 62:35 [SPEAKER_02]: He had hundreds of Ottawa, Ojibwa, Windot and Potawanami Warriors waiting in ambush. 62:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Windot is also a city West of Detroit. 62:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Captain James Dalliel, the British commander, is killed roughly 20 British soldiers die. 62:54 [SPEAKER_02]: The creek runs red. 62:56 [SPEAKER_02]: They rename it bloody run. 62:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that's what we call it today. 63:01 [SPEAKER_02]: The legend, then the man Rouge was cited the night before. 63:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks. 63:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Then there's 1872. 63:09 [SPEAKER_01]: 100 years before I was born. 63:11 [SPEAKER_02]: The Detroit Free Press runs an account of a woman named Jane Dacy of East Elizabeth Street. 63:16 [SPEAKER_02]: She encountered something with blood-red eyes, long teeth, and rattling hooks. 63:21 [SPEAKER_02]: She fainted her account is the earliest, documented news paper sighting of the Nand Rouge. 63:26 [SPEAKER_02]: 12 years before Hamlin's book even existed. 63:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know the news paper. 63:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's crazy because the Detroit Free Press still exists today. 63:34 [SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty cool. 63:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Do we still have newspapers? 63:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't seen a newspaper, a pretty newspaper on my mind. 63:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it's according to what newspaper plays. 63:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sometimes they are still in print. 63:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I just remember driving past the Detroit Free Press downtown Detroit, and you could see the, it being printed, that was a long time ago. 63:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I wish they'd come back or I love, I love, I love it. 63:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I used to love, so much I want to look at anymore in the morning. 64:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Grandpa was brought it in, and everyone's funding papers. 64:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I really didn't like the black ink and the feel of paper. 64:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I can still feel that weirdness. 64:11 [SPEAKER_00]: They had a certain smell to them. 64:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 64:15 [SPEAKER_02]: So there's a Detroit Free Press article in 1872 with a named witness who fainted after encountering your creature with bread, eyes and rattling hosts. 64:25 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not folklore handed down. 64:27 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a newspaper report from 12 years before the leg 64:32 [SPEAKER_02]: That's like a legend. 64:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Legan got written down as a legend. 64:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Shane, you're an investigative journalist by background. 64:41 [SPEAKER_02]: What does it mean that the legend predates the public legend? 64:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm. 64:47 [SPEAKER_00]: See that one more time. 64:49 [SPEAKER_02]: So. 64:51 [SPEAKER_02]: What does it mean that the legend predates the published legend? 64:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was first published. 64:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 64:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that what that would tell us is that there was a strong oral history that seemed passed down prior. 65:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So you had a lot of people telling a version of this history, which as I said earlier, that's not completely uncommon. 65:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, oral history is definitely a thing. 65:14 [SPEAKER_02]: So, and I wonder how many other people saw in between this 170 years between Cadillac and we would only hear the stories of people that people would have remembered. 65:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 65:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So, because Cadillac was such a big character. 65:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the choice history, that's probably why the main version of how all that story was got told and told and told. 65:38 [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, if you, but one of the things that could have helped that is if you had multiple sightings. 65:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 65:43 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'm thinking. 65:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it can do. 65:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I would have also told you the story. 65:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember that story of Cadillac? 65:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is. 65:50 [SPEAKER_02]: That's why it feels like it did exist that long before it was ever written down. 65:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 65:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Because people seeing it in, like you said, telling the story. 65:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 65:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, I mean, if no one sees it, it's out of, why would it continue? 66:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Why would that story continue? 66:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 66:05 [SPEAKER_02]: So Detroit's motto exists before the city burned to the ground. 66:09 [SPEAKER_02]: The man who said the words died because he wouldn't stop helping people in an epidemic. 66:15 [SPEAKER_02]: And the legend wraps both losses into a creature that danced and laughed. 66:19 [SPEAKER_02]: So I might have skipped a few facts. 66:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Trust I was trying to speed it up for you, but I can't leave some of these crazy facts out. 66:27 [SPEAKER_02]: So in 1805, so this is before the free press, we're going back in time a little bit. 66:36 [SPEAKER_02]: A fire breaks out near the stables of John Harvey, the town baker, possibly hot pipe ashes in the wrong place. 66:43 [SPEAKER_02]: By afternoon, every single building in Detroit is gone. 66:46 [SPEAKER_02]: The only thing standing, the stone fort, along the waterfront, and a handful of brick chimneys in the ashes, zero deaths. 66:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Father Gabriel Richard speaks to the survivors. 66:59 [SPEAKER_02]: He gives them a line that becomes Detroit's motto. 67:05 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're not gonna try to give you the Latin version of that. 67:10 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I know. 67:11 [SPEAKER_02]: But it is on the city seal. 67:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It was for an event. 67:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 67:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I could not, we're not, we're not going there. 67:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Not going Latin. 67:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Father Richard wasn't just a priest. 67:21 [SPEAKER_02]: He became the first Catholic priest elected to the U.S. Congress. 67:25 [SPEAKER_02]: He was a founding vice president of what became the University of Michigan. 67:32 [SPEAKER_02]: and he died on September 13th, 1832, treating cholera patients during Detroit's epidemic. 67:40 [SPEAKER_02]: More than 2500 people attended his funeral, more than the entire population of Detroit at the time. 67:47 [SPEAKER_02]: That's impressive. 67:48 [SPEAKER_02]: So where were they coming from for this funeral? 67:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you have a lot of big cities around. 67:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You had Toledo. 67:56 [SPEAKER_00]: You had Fort Wayne. 67:58 [SPEAKER_00]: You would have had Chicago. 67:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 68:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So Indianapolis. 68:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Dayton. 68:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Dayton. 68:09 [SPEAKER_02]: The legend that the man Rouge was seeing dancing on the riverbank before the fire. 68:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting. 68:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It is interesting. 68:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait. 68:20 [SPEAKER_02]: So. 68:21 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not fires. 68:21 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a little pyro. 68:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 68:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And he looks like he's a little fire-grim one. 68:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Detroit's motto exists before the city burned to the ground. 68:29 [SPEAKER_02]: The man who said the words died because he wouldn't stop helping people in an epidemic. 68:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And the legend wraps both losses into a creature that danced and laughed. 68:39 [SPEAKER_02]: So when a city loses everything and one priest gives it a sentence to live by, what does that motto have to do with the curse? 68:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of like it. 68:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that. 68:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a really good motto, especially because of our memory, the history of Detroit. 68:55 [SPEAKER_02]: and how relevant is it still today and it wasn't the first time fires happen in Detroit would be the last there's a lot of major cities in America that had a fire I mean shoot even wall bash the town those small town I live in that a fire the destroy the entire downtown scary so i'm going to talk about another sighting so the war of 1812 american brigadier general william hall is in command of roughly 22 hundred men out 69:26 [SPEAKER_02]: British major general Isaac Brock has approximately 730 regulars and 400 militia outside, plus to come see also, a Michigan city, and around 600 indigenous warriors. 69:39 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot of people. 69:41 [SPEAKER_02]: It is. 69:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Paul surrenders without firing a shot to a smaller combined force. 69:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Court Marshall convicted of cowardice and neglect of duty, sentenced to death, President Madison commutes the sentence. 69:55 [SPEAKER_02]: The legend, as Hall accepted the surrender terms in the fog, he saw the Nen Rouge learing at him through the mist. 70:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd be like, just put me in prison. 70:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 70:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Get me out of here. 70:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Then there's an 1884 again. 70:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Same year as Marie Hamlin's book, a Detroit Free Press article describes, oh, woman attacked and Detroit buys something she described as a baboon with horned head. 70:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's right. 70:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I forgot to mention, he has little horns on his head. 70:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Brilliant, rustless eyes and a devilish lear on its face. 70:24 [SPEAKER_02]: That account ran the newspaper. 70:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Although I'm a little skeptical because I don't think that he, there's a lot of evidence that he was hurting. 70:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm beginning to think he sounds more and more like Shane. 70:41 [SPEAKER_02]: So 1872, Jane Dacy in the free press, 1884, the baboon woman in the free press. 70:50 [SPEAKER_02]: So those were 12 years apart. 70:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Hamlin publishers are book of legends that same year as the baboon report, either Hamlin influence what people were seeing, or the sightings influence Hamlin's book, or both 71:09 [SPEAKER_02]: what's the difference between history and the folklore or is the folklore part of the history? 71:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that it's the second. 71:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Four floors part of the history. 71:24 [SPEAKER_02]: So 1967, we're fast forwarding not quite a hundred years before I was born. 71:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting. 71:35 [SPEAKER_02]: police raid an unlicensed blind pig and after hours club for those of you not familiar with that term on 12th street in Detroit the 12th street rebellion begins 43 people die over the next five days over a thousand injured hundreds of buildings burned and I could do a story just on that 72:02 [SPEAKER_02]: for 43 people to die over the next five days. 72:05 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was just tried to do that. 72:06 [SPEAKER_02]: That's sad. 72:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Was it the government that radar? 72:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep. 72:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Police. 72:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Wow. 72:13 [SPEAKER_02]: And because this is a time when, again, 72:20 [SPEAKER_02]: It was operating in after hours, and it's the interesting, very interesting story on its own. 72:26 [SPEAKER_02]: The 1967 sighting, as told, two Detroit Edison utility workers working near 12th Street at Dusk on the evening before, reported seeing a child-sized bigger climate utility pole again, red face, glowing eyes, sharp teeth. 72:41 [SPEAKER_02]: It jumped down and ran into an alley. 72:45 [SPEAKER_02]: The nine years later, March 1st, 1976, two more DTE workers reported citing, so DTE is the Detroit Edison Utility Workers. 72:55 [SPEAKER_02]: A creature on a pole, they watched it leap at his two days later, Detroit gets hit by a catastrophic ice storm. 73:02 [SPEAKER_02]: 1976. 73:07 [SPEAKER_02]: So I want to be clear about what's documented and what isn't. 73:10 [SPEAKER_02]: The riots documented from 1967. 73:14 [SPEAKER_02]: The deaths documented. 73:15 [SPEAKER_02]: The ice storm documented. 73:18 [SPEAKER_02]: The utility worker's sightings. 73:20 [SPEAKER_02]: That's in the paranormal record, not the historical record. 73:24 [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't found a single Detroit Edison incident report from either 1967 or 1976 confirming a creature description. 73:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Whether the workers existed and filed anything official, that's a whole in the legend. 73:41 [SPEAKER_02]: So, same pattern as bloody run and the fire, the disaster's real, the sighting is folklore. 73:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Does that make the legend less true or more true? 73:53 [SPEAKER_02]: So, we are going to talk about more present day. 73:59 [SPEAKER_02]: So, two Wayne State law students, so Wayne State is in Detroit. 74:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Francis Grunau and Joe Wolstart, the March Delalette, Dinen Rouge. 74:12 [SPEAKER_02]: So a parade held the first Sunday after the spring equinox, Casquador Midtown Detroit. 74:20 [SPEAKER_02]: So Casquador Cas is a road that goes through Detroit and goes north and south and this parade is held in Midtown Detroit. 74:31 [SPEAKER_02]: The point symbolically banished the Nan Rouge from the city for another year. 74:35 [SPEAKER_02]: So the parade starts at Canfield Street in Second Avenue and ends at the Masonic Temple at 500 Temple Street. 74:41 [SPEAKER_02]: One of the largest Masonic temples in the world. 74:43 [SPEAKER_02]: The creature is symbolically driven out on its steps. 74:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's cool. 74:48 [SPEAKER_02]: So Casto Marchers Wear Mask and the legend says that the creature won't recognize you if your face is hidden. 74:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, that's why we wear the mask. 74:58 [SPEAKER_02]: So the first year, a few hundred people attended by the 10th anniversary, about 10,000. 75:02 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot. 75:04 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I have it. 75:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Cause really, I mean, he's scary looking, I want to be your own scary. 75:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't even like Halloween. 75:10 [SPEAKER_02]: You don't want to be around scary? 75:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Shame. 75:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 75:12 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to be around ugly. 75:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 75:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Get out. 75:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, she's cute. 75:20 [SPEAKER_02]: walked right into that one. 75:23 [SPEAKER_02]: So with model after New Orleans, post-Catrine and Marti Grau Revival, Detroit in 2010 was in bankruptcy talks. 75:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Then Detroit 2013, we actually filed chapter 9. 75:35 [SPEAKER_02]: The largest municipal bankruptcy in U.S. history. 75:38 [SPEAKER_02]: The marks that year openly mocked the bankruptcy in its parade theme. 75:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a shining point in our history. 75:47 [SPEAKER_02]: So indigenous scholars and community members have protested the march since it began. 75:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Their core argument, the NAN Rouge has roots in I'll never judge any of you from us pronouncing anything ever again. 75:59 [SPEAKER_02]: The Nish, a Nishanabi protector spirit to additions and then mostly non-indigenous parade banishing it in excolonial logic. 76:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So there are three competing theories of what the creature actually is. 76:17 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'd much rather have blackness than Lenin Rouge. 76:20 [SPEAKER_02]: But so theory one, a French lutein, a Norman folklore, hobgablin, carried across the Atlantic by Quebec settlers. 76:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Second theory, an inish, and this. 76:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want drinking a niche, a niche, not be spirit. 76:41 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a documented 167 event. 76:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Two French, so-pishen missionaries. 76:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I need the sorrows when I was writing this. 76:51 [SPEAKER_02]: France-Waddle-Year, De Cassant, Anne-Renée, Dubre-Hot, de Galenae. 76:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Destroyed a multitude idol near a present-nature trait. 77:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Some scholars argue the Nen Rouge is what got created when the French tried to make sense of a spirit they had no framework for. 77:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, his story in Kate Grinchin has said the creature probably has both French and native traditions sort of wrapped up in it, which makes sense since it's called the Naurush. 77:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Theory number three, Marie Hamlin made most of it up in 1884. 77:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Detroit was becoming an English-speaking city. 77:28 [SPEAKER_02]: She was a French Canadian writer, document, and heritage that was disappearing. 77:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I would hope as a journalist she was reporting just the facts, but we know they wanted to sell newspapers. 77:45 [SPEAKER_02]: So pick your version, pick all three, Detroit has burned, surrendered, Briar did gone bankrupt, lost its water, and rebuilt itself a dozen times. 77:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And every single time somebody reaches back in the 1701, pulls out a red face creature with sharp teeth and says, that's why. 78:02 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not history. 78:03 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not even paranormal. 78:08 [SPEAKER_02]: So what do you Shane and Kim and gang? 78:11 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think the man Rouge actually is? 78:14 [SPEAKER_02]: The thing Cadillac saw or the thing Detroit needed to see every time something went wrong. 78:22 [SPEAKER_02]: It's funny that I really don't believe in those things, but as I'm telling you this crazy story that every year I hear about like I believe it, but it doesn't make sense because I don't believe 78:36 [SPEAKER_02]: that it exists, but I also kind of do, because it's just been around for the stories been around for so long. 78:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 78:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and... 78:46 [SPEAKER_00]: A one point in history is something real. 78:50 [SPEAKER_00]: If people feel like it's real, first, if it's the physical being of it is real. 78:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 78:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, not everything in the world has to be physically there. 79:03 [SPEAKER_00]: There are some things that you can feel. 79:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And so from, I guess the way that I'm seeing it 79:10 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, Cadillac seems a little shady. 79:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that I ever believe anything. 79:14 [SPEAKER_00]: He said, right, for sure. 79:15 [SPEAKER_00]: However, he was a character at the time in the early 1700s that people knew. 79:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And so if they felt like he felt something or heard something and that story got out, I can see the verbal history being shared. 79:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like his wife seeing it and remembering hearing about it makes it more valid. 79:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I believe that much more, I think if I would have heard that Cadlock passed that story down, probably would be a little less, right, I feel the same thing of it. 79:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously women are way more, as I say, why? 79:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Because Cadlock seemed to be someone who liked a good story, because I mean, he made up his name. 79:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true. 79:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just think that the fact that the wife is the one that remembered it, 80:01 [SPEAKER_00]: him would have been the one to share the story. 80:03 [SPEAKER_00]: If that's true, I think that just hold more validity to me. 80:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Or did he just say that his wife sought to add validity to it if people were questioning his wife. 80:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Why assume his wife outlived him? 80:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? 80:19 [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, we're going to have our little shit bar. 80:22 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a whole bunch of shit bar. 80:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Shit bar. 80:25 [SPEAKER_02]: So October 27, 2025, just last fall. 80:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this in Detroit? 80:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, okay. 80:31 [SPEAKER_02]: 36 district court. 80:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Detroit police officer Matthew Jackson logs into a Zoom hearing. 80:37 [SPEAKER_02]: He's testifying drunk driving case. 80:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Officer Jackson isn't his official uniform shirt, badge visible. 80:45 [SPEAKER_02]: His hand is raised to be sworn in. 80:48 [SPEAKER_02]: camera angled normally and the standard virtual court set up. 80:52 [SPEAKER_02]: But this is where the story takes a weird turn. 80:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Judge Sean Perkins notices something and he pans the camera. 81:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Officer Jackson is not wearing pants. 81:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Shut up. 81:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Not out of frame, not wearing pants. 81:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Not his lower half wasn't visible, not wearing pants. 81:11 [SPEAKER_02]: The camera caught it. 81:13 [SPEAKER_02]: He's testifying in his boxers. 81:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Nice. 81:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Judge Perkins. 81:19 [SPEAKER_02]: who will forever make me laugh. 81:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Says with what court reporters describe as remarkable composure, asks the officer, the only question that needs to be asked. 81:31 [UNKNOWN]: Hehehehe. 81:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Quote, you got some pants on officer? 81:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Officer Jackson also on her old says, no sir, and then I want you to see this in your head repositions as camera aims it up towards his face effectively hiding his bottom half and wait. 81:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Judge Perkins' pauses considers this information and just continues the case. 81:57 [SPEAKER_02]: The actual case, by the way, was a woman charge with reckless driving and public intoxication, although it doesn't even matter anymore. 82:04 [SPEAKER_02]: The parents or the lack of parents is the story. 82:09 [SPEAKER_02]: So Detroit police chief Todd Bettison later issued a statement saying the officer's behavior was quote, not representative of the professionalism of this department. 82:17 [SPEAKER_02]: The courts own dress code website specifically prohibits shorts and quote, other clothing, which is not suitable in a court or any other professional environment. 82:27 [SPEAKER_02]: and I have to imagine somebody updated that website, the next morning to add, or pants. 82:32 [SPEAKER_02]: We mean pants, so while you're out there googling the NAN Rouge to see what this crazy character looks like, please YouTube that video, you can definitely find it and it makes me laugh because the judge's expression is hilarious. 82:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So now we'll say though, I've been guilty of 82:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Like doing a guest appearance on a podcast or something that I'm, you know, we're going to wear a polo shirt or something, but I'm in shorts, like a dress shirt because I know it's only going to show my burger, but these are not bad. 83:05 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, I wouldn't just set my underwear. 83:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, make sure your camera is up to where they're not going to see it. 83:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Number one, if you're going to do that. 83:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't do it at zero point in my life. 83:15 [SPEAKER_00]: What I'm talking about in my boxers. 83:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's trying to have a judge. 83:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and like, that's the thing is like a court appearance. 83:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Why is the crap a court appearance that is just baffles me? 83:28 [SPEAKER_00]: That's very weird. 83:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, because for sure, if I'm working at home, I'm wearing my pajamas all day. 83:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah. 83:34 [SPEAKER_02]: But I'll put on a sweatshirt or sweater or something. 83:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be business up tall. 83:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, cool down below. 83:40 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm not going to get you up. 83:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And my camera is not pointed. 83:45 [SPEAKER_00]: below. 83:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, what if your house caught fire? 83:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to stand up and I was going to see boxes and I'll be like, shit, fire. 83:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to have to get up. 83:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Shit, fire, fire. 83:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you for that mystery from Detroit. 84:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad that you worked on that and you got that. 84:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I did. 84:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I got that for us and I printed off for it. 84:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I did it a little last minute, but I thought it was important. 84:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting. 84:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You said you worked best last minute. 84:16 [SPEAKER_01]: She said it. 84:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you for joining us on this episode. 84:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're going to join us on the episode that people are going to hear next week too. 84:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 84:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to record it right after this. 84:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Are we? 84:25 [SPEAKER_01]: You got yours done? 84:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do. 84:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, good. 84:28 [SPEAKER_02]: That was a true. 84:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I knew I was working hard in mind, but yeah, I worked hard in mind. 84:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Good job. 84:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 84:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're going to, in this here, but don't forget that you can mail us postcards. 84:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 84:40 [SPEAKER_02]: You can mail us a postcards. 84:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Not homemade please yes, no, and you know, that's the one thing that we didn't do we didn't get any snacks That just means that we get to the Hong Kong hotel. 84:55 [SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna have to try something Yeah, we'll have to do something for Yeah, because there's I think there's even a candy store in to the palace 85:03 [SPEAKER_01]: There is, there's so many things in Susan's house. 85:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're going on a road trip tomorrow anyway. 85:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So, oh yeah, we didn't talk about that. 85:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we can, in the next episode, we're going to go around to this. 85:14 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 85:14 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, guys, but we'll see you next week. 85:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Bye.
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